Lighting source for Lastolite Hilite Background

CanonDad

CanonDad

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Hello all,

Ive just bought a 9x8ft hilite background to play about with but cant decide what lights to go in to light it up

I know it needs to be continuous, but do i get continuous lights, or flash heads?

Having only used Bowens flash kits i have no idea whats good enough and just for playing about i dont want to spend £1000 on 2 heads.
Im looking to spend no more than i have too (£300), but want something good enough for the job.
Also could do with it being a kit so comes with a bag, stands, lamps etc.

Anyone know whats good, any experiences of the background ?

Ta
 
First of all, the last thing you want is continuous lights especially if the lamps produce heat,

Buy a couple of Lencarta Smartflash 200s and stands they will be plenty powerful enough for the Hilite, then use another head or two for your main lighting.

If you have no heads, I would get a pair of Smartflash 200s and stands for the Hilite and a Lencarta Elitepro 300 or 600 for your main light with a softbox and stand, but you won't be getting that new for £300 i'm afraid.
 
Cheers

Ive got a 3 head bowens 500pro for lighting the front :) i just havent a clue whats good for lighting inside the background.
Always seen it being used with continuous.
Loked at the 200, but as you say, with extras blows 300 put of the water.
Ta
 
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No, if you've got the main lights sorted, then a couple of smartflash 200s will cost you circa £225 then a couple of cheap stands (you dont want anything too big as they are going inside the Hilite) £40 from ebay. Works out well under £300.
 
CanonDad said:
Cheers

Ive got a 3 head bowens 500pro for lighting the front :) i just havent a clue whats good for lighting inside the background.
Always seen it being used with continuous.
Loked at the 200, but as you say, with extras blows 300 put of the water.
Ta
Click to expand...

You have three Bowens 500ws flash heads already? Then you don't need anything else.

Put two in the HiLite and use the third for the front, plus a reflector on the shadow side. That's all I ever use. Don't want or need any more.

PS Whatever you've seen in a HiLite, it's unlikely to be continuous lighting. Perhaps it's the modelling lights you're seeing?
 
HoppyUK said:
You have three Bowens 500ws flash heads already? Then you don't need anything else.

Put two in the HiLite and use the third for the front, plus a reflector on the shadow side. That's all I ever use. Don't want or need any more.

PS Whatever you've seen in a HiLite, it's unlikely to be continuous lighting. Perhaps it's the modelling lights you're seeing?
Click to expand...

Im plannig on using a 5 head setup :D

1 up front, 2 lighting the train, 2 in the hilite.
That way i can eliminate any shadow on the floor as im planning on doing full length hi key photos.
Maybe over the top, but i was considering 6 head at one point and rotating the front 2 so i can snap away as quick as possible, but 6 is way OTT.
 
CanonDad said:
Im plannig on using a 5 head setup :D

1 up front, 2 lighting the train, 2 in the hilite.
That way i can eliminate any shadow on the floor as im planning on doing full length hi key photos.
Maybe over the top, but i was considering 6 head at one point and rotating the front 2 so i can snap away as quick as possible, but 6 is way OTT.
Click to expand...

Check that technique out carefully first. That's not the way it's usually done.

Basically getting a pure white train is (very) difficult, and sticking extra lights on it is not the answer. If you over-expose the train to get it white, then you also over-expose anything standing/sitting/lying on it. You also get problems with cross-shadows and spill.

The best solution seems to be with a reflective floor, and even then there's still a bit of grey-mopping to do in post processing. There are quite a few threads about it. Search the user-name Hodders.
 
I've never seen the Hilite lit with continuos lighting and tbh I doubt if it can be done sensibly. To light the HL evenly you'd need a lot of power and a decent reflector, and the two don't go together well,especially in a confined space such as the Hilite.

I thought I'd read somewhere that you rent a studio ? If that's the case the the HL, which is always in my van as a backup and though I love it, it wouldn't be my first choice for hi key shooting in a studio.

Although very easy to get decent blown backgrounds up to 3/4 length, as Hoppy says, it's very difficult to get blown background full lengths or for floor shots without PP.
 
When you asked the question about what do you get from a £75 seminar elsewhere I can give you the answer that this was just one of the many subjects covered. I echo Jeremys reply, the HiLite was not designed for permanent studio work, it was designed for mobile use and you can light paper, vinyl and cloth with far fewer lights for full length.
As the saying goes "why waste 3 hours reading the manual when you can carry out a week of field trials".
Mike
 
mike weeks said:
When you asked the question about what do you get from a £75 seminar elsewhere I can give you the answer that this was just one of the many subjects covered. I echo Jeremys reply, the HiLite was not designed for permanent studio work, it was designed for mobile use and you can light paper, vinyl and cloth with far fewer lights for full length.
As the saying goes "why waste 3 hours reading the manual when you can carry out a week of field trials".
Mike
Click to expand...

The big advantage of the HiLite is space. It's not really any more portable than a conventional background. They're also very efficient - I use hot-shoe guns, two Canon 580EX at 1/4 power works fine, and recycling is fast at that output.

If you have a six-foot wide HiLight, then you can shoot anywhere with about 6.5ft of space, and you can usually get that in most domestic environments, and you can position the subject very close to it if needs be. To do the same thing using a conventional background needs about double that, and double the depth, which you can't do in most front rooms without moving all the furniture.

It makes a huge difference. Basically, with a HiLite I can shoot in people's homes, without it and they have to come to me. I much prefer people's homes, it's so much easier for kids with toys and different clothes to hand, and everyone is more relaxed - it's usually the mums that lose it first :lol:
 
Agree with most of the posts, but you can create full length Hi Key images with just 2 heads. One in the hilite and one Main light with a softbox. I ran a course just a couple of weeks ago showing this exact technique. Will try and dig up some images.

Paul
 
fototraining said:
Agree with most of the posts, but you can create full length Hi Key images with just 2 heads. One in the hilite and one Main light with a softbox. I ran a course just a couple of weeks ago showing this exact technique. Will try and dig up some images.

Paul
Click to expand...

Light the large HiLite with one head? Print ready images out of the camera with only 2 lights? I am sure they will be happy for you to advertise your training once you have contacted the management - I found them helpful.

Mike
 
mike weeks said:
Light the large HiLite with one head? Print ready images out of the camera with only 2 lights? I am sure they will be happy for you to advertise your training once you have contacted the management - I found them helpful.

Mike
Click to expand...

Give the newcomer a break Mike! It doesn't read like an ad - be interesting to see what Paul comes up with.

Welcome to TP Paul :)
 
I'm a little sceptical, but very keen to be convinced.

Advertising aside, this is a major issue for many photographers so if Paul's found a way of doing it then put me down for his course.
 
HoppyUK said:
Give the newcomer a break Mike! It doesn't read like an ad - be interesting to see what Paul comes up with.

Welcome to TP Paul :)
Click to expand...

Cheers HoppyUK.

Not going to be advertising anything on here!!!!

I run courses for a Lighting Retailer as well as my own. (no I wont say who)


Have used the Hilite, but on this occasion i used a similiar product from the retailer as the course was sponsored by them.

Happy to give advice on lighting, and if anyone wants any info on the products i use, then you can always PM me.

In regards to using just 2 heads. One head without a spill kill should be enough to light the hilite if positioned correctly. Use the main light in a softbox fairly high and aimed at the floor just infront of the subject. Then feather the edge of the softbox so light is just hitting the subject at eye level. This light should be around a 1 1/2 to 2 stops lower.
the image may need a quick tweak, i use a Develop preset (to boost contrast) in lightroom, applied as it imports.

You will end up with slightly overexposed Feet:eek: but i find that most customers are looking at their expression.

Hope this helps.

Paul

P.S Hi Jerm, will get that video quote to you soon:wave:
 
fototraining said:
Cheers HoppyUK.

Not going to be advertising anything on here!!!!

I run courses for a Lighting Retailer as well as my own. (no I wont say who)


Have used the Hilite, but on this occasion i used a similiar product from the retailer as the course was sponsored by them.

Happy to give advice on lighting, and if anyone wants any info on the products i use, then you can always PM me.

In regards to using just 2 heads. One head without a spill kill should be enough to light the hilite if positioned correctly. Use the main light in a softbox fairly high and aimed at the floor just infront of the subject. Then feather the edge of the softbox so light is just hitting the subject at eye level. This light should be around a 1 1/2 to 2 stops lower.
the image may need a quick tweak, i use a Develop preset (to boost contrast) in lightroom, applied as it imports.

You will end up with slightly overexposed Feet:eek: but i find that most customers are looking at their expression.

Hope this helps.

Paul

P.S Hi Jerm, will get that video quote to you soon:wave:
Click to expand...

Fair comment :)

This technique is all about compromise as it's impossible to get everything perfect, so how you cut that one is at least partly subjective. A bit of over-exposure here, a hint of shadow there, some post processing contrast tweaks and mopping up any darker bits and background joins - all part of the game.

TBH I'm beginning to compromise a bit more on a few things myself. The subject needs a bit of shadow to sit/stand/lie on or it just looks like they're floating in space and you might as well do a full cut-out and be done with it. Leave the shadow (it should be very light anyway) and cut around it with a very soft outline fading to pure white. I prefer that to having a reflection of the subject when using a shiny floor, nice effect though that is now and then.

I don't like turning up the background lights to +2 stops (outline bleaching and wrap too stong, plus danger of flare) and I never go that far but there's no doubt that extra exposure there puts more light on the floor and makes life easier at that end of things. Feathering the front light is a good tip and while I don't actually do that (might give it a try ;)) I certainly make sure the floor gets a very full dose from it.

I guess whatever compromise works best for you, and at the end of the day, the customer decides - I find they don't give a stuff about that sort of thing so long as little Tarzan and Jane look cute LOL

Paul can I ask what the brand of HiLite/HighLight you use is? Is it any good, any cheaper? Link?
 
Richard,

You are right about a compromise.
You can compromise a little and use 2 lights, or you could follow the video on Lastolite website and use 6 lights, a hilite balanced on 2 chairs and some gaffer tape:shrug:

I used this http://www.viewfinderphotography.co.uk/products/Pro%2dLiteBank.html

Has a train built in which makes life a little easier.

P.S Disclaimer: I do consult for them on occasion, as well as others :rules:
 
fototraining said:
Richard,

You are right about a compromise.
You can compromise a little and use 2 lights, or you could follow the video on Lastolite website and use 6 lights, a hilite balanced on 2 chairs and some gaffer tape:shrug:

I used this http://www.viewfinderphotography.co.uk/products/Pro%2dLiteBank.html

Has a train built in which makes life a little easier.

P.S Disclaimer: I do consult for them on occasion, as well as others :rules:
Click to expand...

Oh thanks. That looks nice - not cheaper than Lastolite though :(

How does it compare to the HiLite? It seems to have the bottom missing, does that mean you can't turn it sideways to use more width? What is the front diffuser/train made of? Can you use it as a stand for different backgrounds, BottleTop style?

Cheers :)
 
HoppyUK said:
Oh thanks. That looks nice - not cheaper than Lastolite though :(

How does it compare to the HiLite? It seems to have the bottom missing, does that mean you can't turn it sideways to use more width? What is the front diffuser/train made of? Can you use it as a stand for different backgrounds, BottleTop style?

Cheers :)
Click to expand...

No you cant turn it sideways, but they do a 3m wide version, the front material is a wrinkle free background which you can also get in Black, Grey and Chroma Green/Blue so no need for a bottle top:)

Also, the lights fit to the frame inside, so no need for additional light stands.
 
Ok, here is an image from the workshop using 2 heads to create Hi Key images using a litebank and softbox.

As you can see, it is not perfect, but once run through lightroom, cropped and printed out, i'm sure most customers at an event would be happy.


litebank - Copy by fototraining, on Flickr

Waiting for the onslaught to begin:runaway:
 
Hi all
I have a lastolite hilite but it's only 6x7 and I use one flash in the hilite and one main. I've tried to light the train but get more bloody shadows. So I just quick tweak in photoshop and get pure White floor.
 
fototraining said:
Ok, here is an image from the workshop using 2 heads to create Hi Key images using a litebank and softbox.

As you can see, it is not perfect, but once run through lightroom, cropped and printed out, i'm sure most customers at an event would be happy.

<snip>

Waiting for the onslaught to begin:runaway:
Click to expand...

That's not bad for two lights. If that's your feathering technique in action, it seems to make a good foundation. Looking at it in Flickr, the background is a bit hot and you've lost the top of the guy's head, but probably recoverable from Raw in post processing. Her top/shoulder has gone, but that's the problem of white on white.

I like the shadow (if not the wrinkles) and while some might want to get rid of that, I think I'd leave it because it looks nice and entirely natural. Taking that idea a bit further and putting aside our current obsession with absolute white all over for a minute, check out this link http://www.fashionphotographyblog.com/2009/11/one-big-beautiful-light/ It was posted on another thread recently and this is just one light, background right up close behind, and deliberately making a virtue of the shadows - and I have to say I think the result is superb in every way.
 
intresting read, many thanks.
 
fototraining said:
Ok, here is an image from the workshop using 2 heads to create Hi Key images using a litebank and softbox.

As you can see, it is not perfect, but once run through lightroom, cropped and printed out, i'm sure most customers at an event would be happy.


litebank - Copy by fototraining, on Flickr

Waiting for the onslaught to begin:runaway:
Click to expand...

Is this straight out of camera Paul ?
 
Bit disturbed that both the lastolite video and the training guy here are misusing the term high key. I see beginners misuse it and it raises an eyebrow but i don't mind, but for people to put themselves in an authoritative position and get it wrong I've got to speak up.
 
nano said:
Bit disturbed that both the lastolite video and the training guy here are misusing the term high key. I see beginners misuse it and it raises an eyebrow but i don't mind, but for people to put themselves in an authoritative position and get it wrong I've got to speak up.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately most people dont know what it really is and think that "Hot White Background = High Key", however there comes a point where you are swimming against the tide.

Mike
 
edited
 
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Tugster said:
Is this straight out of camera Paul ?
Click to expand...

It has had a develop preset applied as it was imported into Lightroom. Boost in contrast and saturation and a small Exp+ gradient applied top left.

Paul
 
nano said:
Bit disturbed that both the lastolite video and the training guy here are misusing the term high key. I see beginners misuse it and it raises an eyebrow but i don't mind, but for people to put themselves in an authoritative position and get it wrong I've got to speak up.
Click to expand...

I do understand the original term of High Key lighting and how to achieve it, but the term has been hijacked by so many photographers and Studio's that it no longer has the same meaning for many people. Meanings change over time and you have to move with the times!

Paul
 
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