lighting help....

mark richards

mark richards

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trying to take some photos of my carvings.. in studio, always managed with natural light in past.. but will now need lighting, I have not done this before...
I have done off camera macro work (butterflies, insects )but this is doing my head-in...I'm getting shadows, colors looks wrong...and why is the ISO so high
with flash? I'm getting iso at 4000 plus? with A priority, I'm lighting these with
halogen lights at side with flash in front, all diffused :thumbsdown: any help will be great...mark
 
mark richards said:
trying to take some photos of my carvings.. in studio, always managed with natural light in past.. but will now need lighting, I have not done this before...
I have done off camera macro work (butterflies, insects )but this is doing my head-in...I'm getting shadows, colors looks wrong...and why is the ISO so high
with flash? I'm getting iso at 4000 plus? with A priority, I'm lighting these with
halogen lights at side with flash in front, all diffused :thumbsdown: any help will be great...mark
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Sorry to say Mark, but as a lesson in how not to do it, that's pretty good.

Can you show us an example of what you're getting, and also (a link?) to the kind of effect you're after?

Or the short answer might be, if you were happy with daylight, go back to that.
 
HoppyUK said:
Sorry to say Mark, but as a lesson in how not to do it, that's pretty good.

Can you show us an example of what you're getting, and also (a link?) to the kind of effect you're after?

Or the short answer might be, if you were happy with daylight, go back to that.
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the thing with natural light is, its not good this time of year...and you don't get many, if any good days...so I'm just going to have to give this my best shot...
I need to get these the best i can,for my website...mark...
 
mark richards said:
the thing with natural light is, its not good this time of year...and you don't get many, if any good days...so I'm just going to have to give this my best shot...
I need to get these the best i can,for my website...mark...
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Good for you Mark :)

Then you'd better give us a bit more info to go on.
 
Okay, I misread your first post. You're not mixing flash and halogen together are you?

In which case, colour can be easily sorted. Set the camera to either tungsten or do a custom white balance (better) - see handbook.

Exposure is pushing the ISO because most continuous artifical light is feeble compared to daylight. Flash is much more powerful.

The shadows are because the light source is small - the bigger the light source (or in this case perhaps the size of your diffusion surface, not quite sure exactly how you're doing that) the softer the shadows. Size is in relation to the subject, and so if you move it closer it becomes relatively bigger, and vice versa.

In daylight, shade or an overcast day, the light source is effectively the entire sky, so light is coming from all directions and is almost shadowless.

I suggest you get a flash gun, a shoot-through umbrella, and put a reflector on the opposite side. That will pretty much mimic almost shadowless daylight with a small subject like that, and give you a decent amount of light.

Or you could get a cheap e-bay style light tent and do it that way, either with flash or with halogens if you prefer, in which case a tripod will allow you to use longer shutter speeds and pull the ISO down. That way you can also raise the f/numbner for more depth of field as well if you like. Thinking about it, cheapest and easiest way with small stuff and basic lighting like that would probably be a light tent/halogens and a tripod, with custom white balance :)
 
Cloudy days are great for flat light. The entire sky acts like one big soft box.

Try shooting manual, start with 1/125th sec at f8 and let the flashgun sort out the lighting. Bounce the flash off the ceiling. You can bounce off walls but it'll pick up the colour, or if needed a large piece of white card can work also. Flash has a different colour so set the white balance on your camera.
 
Byker28i said:
Cloudy days are great for flat light. The entire sky acts like one big soft box.

Try shooting manual, start with 1/125th sec at f8 and let the flashgun sort out the lighting. Bounce the flash off the ceiling. You can bounce off walls but it'll pick up the colour, or if needed a large piece of white card can work also. Flash has a different colour so set the white balance on your camera.
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thanks mate....bloody complicated this flash is :thinking: mark...:lol:
 
A statement of the obvious, but if you're capable of carving these figures then simple lighting won't cause you any difficulties.

1. ISO. My guess is that your camera is set to auto ISO. Take it off of auto and put it on something sensible like 200 or 400 ISO. Because of the low levels of light, you may need a tripod to hold the camera steady.
2. Light. There's nothing actually wrong with natural light, except that it can be difficult to control it, and you do need to control it. Flash is by far your best option because you have control of its direction and hardness, and because it creates its energy in a tiny space of time, which means that you don't need a tripod. You've fallen into the usual beginner trap of assuming that flat light is good, because it doesn't create shadows, and that's the opposite of the truth. You need shadows to create interest, reveal the texture that you've painstakingly created and to produce a sense of 3 dimensions. So use flash instead, and experiment with different positions to find out what works for you.

If you really can't use flash, get yourself some black card and hold it close to 1 side of your set to create darker areas on that side - better than nothing.

3. Colour. My guess is that you may have your camera set to auto colour temperature. take it off of auto and put it on 'daylight' or 'flash'. And include a pure white, black or grey sample in your setup shot, then, on the computer, use this sample to set correct colour balance.
 
Garry Edwards said:
A statement of the obvious, but if you're capable of carving these figures then simple lighting won't cause you any difficulties.

1. ISO. My guess is that your camera is set to auto ISO. Take it off of auto and put it on something sensible like 200 or 400 ISO. Because of the low levels of light, you may need a tripod to hold the camera steady.
2. Light. There's nothing actually wrong with natural light, except that it can be difficult to control it, and you do need to control it. Flash is by far your best option because you have control of its direction and hardness, and because it creates its energy in a tiny space of time, which means that you don't need a tripod. You've fallen into the usual beginner trap of assuming that flat light is good, because it doesn't create shadows, and that's the opposite of the truth. You need shadows to create interest, reveal the texture that you've painstakingly created and to produce a sense of 3 dimensions. So use flash instead, and experiment with different positions to find out what works for you.

If you really can't use flash, get yourself some black card and hold it close to 1 side of your set to create darker areas on that side - better than nothing.

3. Colour. My guess is that you may have your camera set to auto colour temperature. take it off of auto and put it on 'daylight' or 'flash'. And include a pure white, black or grey sample in your setup shot, then, on the computer, use this sample to set correct colour balance.
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thanks Garry...much better results today, did switch to manual, and like you said,better iso readings, had the on camera flash & nikon sb600 working together.. getting better photos ,but think I'll need to invest in a good light...
the photos that i am taking now, don't do the carvings any justice... I'm beginning to think that its impossible ,to get what i see on the screen....mark
 
mark richards said:
this is what i'm getting with natural light....much better i think,..mark.
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Better in terms of colour, but not good enough - I'm sure that that flat lighting isn't doing justice to your carvings. You need a large light source (such as diffused daylight but much more capable of manipulation) at an acute angle, to reveal the texture of your work and to provide a combination of low overall contrast and high local contrast. The very best tool for the job is a beauty dish, but that will require a studio flash. A softbox on a hotshoe flash will provide a workable compromise.

Oh, and don't use an on-camera flash.
 
Two schools of thought here - flat and dull, but easy - the light tent suggestion or similar.

Or do your work justice and show it to best effect with some better quality creative lighting - Garry's suggestion. That requires some investment and also involves a bit of learning, but will be better for business :thumbs:

Either way, you can't mix flash and tungsten or halogen light as they're a different colour. You can correct for one or the other, but not both together.
 
Garry Edwards said:
A softbox on a hotshoe flash will provide a workable compromise.
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As will one of your existing halogen lights about 24" back from and shining through a large piece of paper to create a large diffuse light source.

Even A3 copy paper would have a suitable effect, but a two or three layers of white tissue paper would be better. The halogen will play havoc with the colour balance, so shoot raw and adjust afterwards. Keep the ISO low and use a tripod.

That at least gets you started whilst waiting for a softbox, if that's what you want.
 
you could really do with some soft diffuse light to light the whole scene, say from a large softbox 45 degrees above and in front and very slightly to the left

You could then do with a little hard directional light that lights the product, but doesn't hit the background), coming in from slightly above and from the right

You may then need a small amount of very directional light coming in from back left to give a bit of edge definition

With the sneaky use of a little reflector, you may be able to loose a light, or splash a little extra on the background to make it look s bit more interesting

Getting the subject a long way from the vertical background will help you with the shadows
 
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oh, and at this scale that doesn't have to be studio flash, you can diffuse a light using something like a shower curtain, and you can make really directional light using something like black straws


You definitely dont want a light tent

http://lightingmods.blogspot.com/2007/06/diy-black-straws-snoot-grid-part-1.html

Additionally, I have a couple of lenser P7 torches, that you can focus
http://www.ledlenser.com/ENG/startseite_1024.php - I use these a lot for the times when I want a little splash of light, and I cant be asked, or dont have time set up a pile of flashes, and they are balanced well with daylight

Oh and order yourself a curry - because the backs of the lids make great little reflectors (and you can curve them too!)
 
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Alastair said:
As will one of your existing halogen lights about 24" back from and shining through a large piece of paper to create a large diffuse light source.

Even A3 copy paper would have a suitable effect, but a two or three layers of white tissue paper would be better. The halogen will play havoc with the colour balance, so shoot raw and adjust afterwards. Keep the ISO low and use a tripod.

That at least gets you started whilst waiting for a softbox, if that's what you want.
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Halogen lights would be a bad choice, they appear to be bright but aren't, and pollution from other light sources (e.g. daylight) would create havoc with the colour.

White tissue paper placed in front of halogen lights would create an 'interesting' fire:'(

you could really do with some soft diffuse light to light the whole scene, say from a large softbox 45 degrees above and in front and very slightly to the left

You could then do with a little hard directional light that lights the product, but doesn't hit the background), coming in from slightly above and from the right
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I don't know how I would like this (I never do until I actually do it) but I think my starting point would be a softbox or beauty dish at an acute angle from either right or left and a long way away (so that the fall off of light, following the inverse square law) isn't too extreme. I would then probably place a silver reflector on the opposite side.

It might then be tweaked a bit, but that would be my starting point I think.
 
mark richards said:
thank you all so much for your advise, I do have one of those small pop up tent thing'ys
that i bought awhile ago...will dig this out and have a go with this...mark
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chocolate fire-guard comes to mind - have a go though!
 
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