Lighting for product photography

zerodeluxe

zerodeluxe

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Ben
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Hi

I'm working as a designer for a BMX firm, and we'll be looking to get some shots of the new range of bikes coming up soon for the new catalogues. We're looking to do the photography in-house this time (as myself and another colleague are pretty competent with a DSLR) but just wanted a bit of advice/assurance on a lighting kit. We've got an unused room which we'll leave all the gear set up permanently (as we shoot a lot of products for the web site/eBay etc).

We're not looking to spend too much, just something which will give us some good, clear results. Would something like the kit in this link be sufficient?:

http://www.jessops.com/online.store/products/77688/show.html

I'd imagine continuous light is best for us. We'll also get hold of a sturdy backdrop, and maybe a small cube for parts (if we need it). I always shoot RAW so any lighting flaws can be adjusted, but would like to try and avoid as much post processing as we can on our budget.

Any advice would be much appreciated!

Cheers,

Ben
 
I think flash light would be better than continues, it gives you more power.
I use Lencarta smartflash, it did cost me more than what you posted here but the quality of light and durability is great. It is also fan cooled so you can shoot all day! And you don't get much light for the price of Lencarta that are fan cooled.

zerodeluxe said:
I always shoot RAW so any lighting flaws can be adjusted, but would like to try and avoid as much post processing as we can on our budget.
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Always try to do everything in the shoot and don't leave things to fix in the post, not a very good idea.

Good luck :-)
 
A lot of Companies seem to be going for DIY photography and I can see the advantages, but it needs to be done properly if you want shots that will sell your products, and you won't be able to do it properly without making a reasonable investment in both kit and in the learning process.

Continuous light has a lot of disadvantages and no advantages. It can produce flat lighting, but flat lighting doesn't sell products.

You also need consistent colour. You won't get it with continuous lighting because the voltage will be different with every shot.

You also need accurate colour. You won't it with fluorescent lighting because the CRI will be less than 100 (and with cheap kits, substantially less).

If you want a pure white background then my advice is to forget trying to get it right in camera, it's just too complicated, needs too much care, too much skill and too much equipment for this subject. All professionals have their preferred supplier, mine is Clipping Paths Asia, they do a first class job of cutting out from the background at a reasonable, fixed price.
 
Do you need remote flash triggers for those or would a sync cable work?

Ideally we need to get the back drop as white as we can (without backlight, as that makes the edges unclear) with a clear bikes shot, to save clipping the images if we can....

I hadn't really considered flash - I'd just gone by reading stuff around and about that continuous would be cool. Would the flash work also for the smaller parts work, as we need an all-rounder really.

Thanks!
 
Garry Edwards said:
All professionals have their preferred supplier, mine is Clipping Paths Asia, they do a first class job of cutting out from the background at a reasonable, fixed price.
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I can do the clipping... we'd just like to avoid all those spokes! But if we need to do that then a clipping service would be an option for sure... to save me some time anyway!

The important thing is to get the bikes looking good.
 
You can use remote trigger or use sync cable. Both works here. You should be able to do smaller parts too, in fact I have used my flash to photograph small objects on table and the results are great, and I'm happy.
I'm sure Garry can help you more than I can, but my only point is get a Lencarta :-) I did a lot of research before I got to them.
 
zerodeluxe said:
Do you need remote flash triggers for those or would a sync cable work?

Ideally we need to get the back drop as white as we can (without backlight, as that makes the edges unclear) with a clear bikes shot, to save clipping the images if we can....

I hadn't really considered flash - I'd just gone by reading stuff around and about that continuous would be cool. Would the flash work also for the smaller parts work, as we need an all-rounder really.

Thanks!
Click to expand...
Radio triggers are pretty standard and more convenient than synch cables, but synch cables will work.



I can do the clipping... we'd just like to avoid all those spokes! But if we need to do that then a clipping service would be an option for sure... to save me some time anyway!
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Of course you can, I just find it better to pay people on Thai pay rates to do it for me, especially as they do nothing else, all day every day.

Backlighting doesn't make the edges unclear unless it's done badly, but I know what you mean - most shots of this type are done badly:'(

Flash will work for all of your needs. In the world of the internet, where everyone has suddenly become an expert at whatever they want to write about/make a video about, there are always going to be people who will tell you that a particular type of tool is the right choice, but trust me continuous light is just too limited and too uncertain for your needs.

I think flash light would be better than continues, it gives you more power.
I use Lencarta smartflash, it did cost me more than what you posted here but the quality of light and durability is great. It is also fan cooled so you can shoot all day! And you don't get much light for the price of Lencarta that are fan cooled.
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This is the SmartFlash kit that Creaxel_photo is talking about. You'll need 3 flash heads, two of them with fairly large softboxes and one with a beauty dish - that will be fine for pretty well everything you need to do. If you want to light the background then you'll need 2 more heads etc.
 
If we could light the backdrop, that would be an advantage... but funding five heads might push the budget, with stands, triggers etc.

Would the three (two for the subject, one to lift the b/g) work? We're quite aware we're not going to get the same results as a dedicated pro studio - but as long as we can get good results, we'll be happy.

It's not for a high-end glossy catalogues, more for a standard trade publication, with a few close-ups.

What are continuous lighting kits better for then? Are they more suited to portrait work?


Thanks for the advice so far - much appreciated.
 
I used to photograph bikes as it happens, agree with what's been said, flash is the way to go. You need power here and consistency. I used to shoot at f8 to f11 to get everything nice and sharp so you need power! I used to light the back ground separate to get it white but you need some distance between the bike and background to do so, otherwise you lose edge detail, and spokes! And it does take some lighting knowledge as you have to adjust the setup slightly for each shot! Looking back and if I did it again, I think I would go for the clipping option!
 
zerodeluxe said:
If we could light the backdrop, that would be an advantage... but funding five heads might push the budget, with stands, triggers etc.

Would the three (two for the subject, one to lift the b/g) work? We're quite aware we're not going to get the same results as a dedicated pro studio - but as long as we can get good results, we'll be happy.

It's not for a high-end glossy catalogues, more for a standard trade publication, with a few close-ups.

What are continuous lighting kits better for then? Are they more suited to portrait work?

Thanks for the advice so far - much appreciated.
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You may not want to fund 5 heads, but in business the idea is to spend as little as you can but as much as you need to. And you need 5 heads if you want to light the background properly.

When I suggested 3 heads I was pretty much thinking in terms of an overhead light with a large softbox, another large softbox for fill and a third head, with beauty dish, to create sparkle. You can manage with just two heads but will lose the sparkle that sells the products.

What are continuous lighting kits better for then? Are they more suited to portrait work?
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They're even less suited for portraits than for still life shots, as Paul says, they're the right tool for video. They are also cheap, so a lot of people buy them until they find out that they would have been better off buying better and buying once.
 
I won't comment on the kit other than to say that I think continuous light would probably be okay for small static products, but you'll struggle with bikes. However, flash is much better, and more versatile in every respect - from bikes to nuts and bolts, people too. I'm pretty sure you'll get asked to do other stuff at some point, just the way it happens in companies.

The main thing I want to say though, is what you appear to be trying to do is create your company's entire shop window on the cheap! What's a few hundred quid on the most valuable marketing asset you've got? For heaven's sake think about your priorities and do it properly. Good kit. Good studio area. And learn to use it properly! Also, you can't PP your way out of bad lighting. Ever :nono:

Preofessional advertising photographers are well paid for their skill with lighting, not because they have a nice studio full of expensive gear. Smart companies know the value of that. You can do it for less of course, but you can't do it well without knowing what you're up to and with respect, knowing how to set the exposure on a DSLR is not the same thing at all. Go on a lighting course - one of Garry's. People, products, portraits, they're all the same - it's just using light, and one thing Garry's knows about is lighting. And you'll also like him because he's sponsored by Lencarta so his training days are amazingly cheap ;)

I would look to spend a couple of grand. Four lights, big, medium and small softboxes (preferably square for products I think) plus a few other light modifiers. Background system and paper rolls. Light table. Reflectors and screens.

For example, bike on a white background. Two lights on that, biggest softbox in front, and maybe a fourth light to make sure everything is shown clearly.

None of that is too tricky, but it takes knowledge and more than a couple of light bulbs.
 
Cool - thanks for all the info guys... very much appreciated.

The idea behind doing it ourselves is that then we have complete control, and it doesn't matter how long it takes as we won't be paying someone else. We'll have time to experiment with lighting until we get it right.

I think my boss won't be stretching to a couple of grand unfortunately... the Lencarta one will be pushing it, once backdrops are factored in too. Five heads will probably be too much for us, so we may have to settle for an unlit backdrop, unless we can find a cheaper five-head kit and triggers...

Maybe initially we should hire some kit for a day to see if we seriously can get the shots we need before spending big money.....?
 
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zerodeluxe said:
Cool - thanks for all the info guys... very much appreciated.

The idea behind doing it ourselves is that then we have complete control, and it doesn't matter how long it takes as we won't be paying someone else. We'll have time to experiment with lighting until we get it right.

I think my boss won't be stretching to a couple of grand unfortunately... the Lencarta one will be pushing it, once backdrops are factored in too. Five heads will probably be too much for us, so we may have to settle for an unlit backdrop, unless we can find a cheaper five-head kit and triggers...

Maybe initially we should hire some kit for a day to see if we seriously can get the shots we need before spending big money.....?
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You can hire all the kit you want, but unless you know how to use it, you'll not really realise its potential. This will take more than a day floundering around in the dark.

It's about knowledge and gear, you need both.

Also, do you work for nothing? Doesn't that have a cost? A decent outfit will last for years, and cost very little in real terms.

You, or your boss, seem to be falling into the trap that it's just about buying equipment these days, and having a decent camera. That's not true, and never more so than with studio photography. In the studio, you start with nothing, and have to create both the subject and how it is shown - not just point the camera and record what God has already put in front of your lens.
 
I appreciate that - I'm not saying "oh that looks easy, I can do it myself at a fraction of the cost". I appreciate there is an art to it, and with all aspects of photography (as I found), experience is key. I'm fully aware I won't compete with a dedicated studio.

I do have some photo experience –*granted only a little with lighting – so feel like I could certainly give this a go and get some good results with some trial and error, and a little help from tutorials etc etc. On the other hand I'm reluctant to spend the company budget and realise we should have sent out to to a studio after all if they do end up being pretty crappy....

But as said before, these won't be high end glossies were shooting for. Just a standard trade cat, with mainly very small standard shots.

They've done their own shots here before with a photographer they knew. They weren't perfect but certainly useable for what was needed. Hence why we're doing it with us shooting this time.

Thanks again for the replies!
 
I have in the past managed quite successfully to photography motorcycles with just three 200ws flashes, but to be honest it was a struggle & I could have really done with that 4th (or even 5th) head, but I managed. Also the only light modifiers I had to hand were large brollies and a couple of standard reflectors. One thing you can do is NOT to use a white background, but a plain pale primary colour or indeed black, but that will require very good subject lighting to ensure tyres and the like are well detailed.

As you have a room you intend to leave permanently set-up, you can save money on reflectors/gobo's - down to B&Q for 8x4's of polystyrene sheet some matt black paint. Then to your local outdoor/camping shop for a couple of foil survival blankets.

Flash heads (& perhaps stands) are not the place to save money, go for the absolute best you can afford IMO.

Paul
 
How does the colour backdrop benefit over white? (Sorry if that's a daft question, from a designer point of view that might hinder cutouts, depending on the method..)
 
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zerodeluxe said:
How does the colour backdrop benefit over white? (Sorry if that's a daft question, from a designer point of view that might hinder cutouts, depending on the method..)
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Sorry, not thinking about cutouts - I don't really do PP stuff.:thinking:

I would use the background effect for the finished picture. Using either the natural fall-off of light to give a graduated effect or a single effects light to lift the area behind the subject and let the edges go dark.

Paul
 
As an extra to what Richard said, I've been providing some 1-2-1 training for a small firm that wants to do their own product photography.
They sell a range of leather products - there's a very real need for good lighting because the products have texture that needs to be shown, plus some of it it very shiny (e.g. belt buckles), some is clothing that needs to be shot on models, and so on.

They appreciate the need for this so booked the training before even thinking about the lighting. We haven't got as far as the lighting yet but their needs are fairly simple and will probably cost no more than £1000.

I've just had an email from them, they want to book me for another day, mainly to photograph their backlog of products with their trainees looking over my shoulder, then we'll spend the rest of the time teaching them the PP work needed.

Their history is that they tried a local 'professional' photographer who clearly wasn't professional as far as product shots are concerned, they then bought a continuous light kit, then they had a re-think. That's the way to do it - if it's worth doing at all, it's worth spending a few bob on it.
 
The bike I was shooting all those years ago, was for a custom mag - "show us your bike and we'll do a feature on the best" sort of thing. My pics were good, certainly better than most that were submitted & contributed to it being chosen, but the ones produced by the mag in a dedicated studio with their hired professional were stunning. Taught me the limitations of my equipment (inc. shooting environment) & ability.

Paul
 
As a side thought for you...

I did a shoot for a museum last week, logging exhibits as their in-house tog was not there. I asked them if they had everything there so I would just need me, my camera gear and PW compatible (you know the make) triggers. They said oh yes full studio, lighting, table studio and full backdrops etc. It turned out they had a ping-pong table, two continuous lights and a few bits of cloth! I was shooting hand held at 1/60th f/4 iso1000 I so wish I'd taken my flash lighting. There is a place for continuous lighting, but this isn't it.
 
Well, I think I'm swaying that flash will definitely be the way to go – It'll be more of a case of what we can afford to spend on the equipment. If it works then it will be an investment as said, but I'm wary in case I can't pull it off...

I wonder how much Mr Edwards courses are.....?! :)
 
zerodeluxe said:
Well, I think I'm swaying that flash will definitely be the way to go – It'll be more of a case of what we can afford to spend on the equipment. If it works then it will be an investment as said, but I'm wary in case I can't pull it off...

I wonder how much Mr Edwards courses are.....?! :)
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Mr Edwards charges £470 for the day, as a 1-2-1 course tailored to your exact needs.
Or you can go on one of the sponsored Lencarta ones, which obviously will be about lighting but not product-specific, for £60
 
Might be a bit pricey for us.... and the sponsored ones are too far (I'm in Somerset). I did take a quick look at your link and saw you have training videos - that might be an option at the very least.
 
At the risk of either sounding rude or repeating what others have said....

If you're in the business of selling products then your shop front, be it a catalogue or a web site is one of the main ways that people judge your offering, and the quality of your business.

I fully understand why a company may wish to bring its product photography in-house to save money longer term.

Having made that decision, I can't then understand why you would sacrifice the quality by not having either the right equipment or skill to do a proper job.

Whether it's a high-end glossy catalogue or a standard trade publication makes no difference IMHO.. you're still putting your product in front of people to get them to buy.

£470 would buy you a one-to-one day with one of the most highly regarded product photographers around which will save you a huge amount of time and set you up in the right direction.

To me it's not only great value for money but also a no brainer.
 
If a business can't afford £500 on training then another £1000 on equipment then I'd wonder if the business was even viable if it had more than a few people working for it. I can understand an individual baulking at spending the money if they weren't earning much but a business needs to do a proper cost benefit analysis of what it spends and have a reasonable amount of surplus to survive.

If buying the equipment is a definite no no how about hiring it for a week and getting as much done as possible? This way you can increase revenue without such a risk. Then once it has proven to do so you buy the proper equipment. I wouldn't hire it without having some decent tuition first though.
 
I'd love to do it, but I'm not in control of the finances. I can suggest it... but I think I know my answer! :)

As a designer, I know the value of good photography. We'd just like to do it ourselves to see if we can, and to make it more flexible and easy for us. We may well fall flat on our faces... but I'd like to try!
 
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