So I've just been comissioned for a proper corporate photo shoot in an office studio with a real model. They want it to look great, and I'm not sure on using my flash. I'm thinking of renting some f/1.8 lens and possibly some lighting. I just don't know what I'll really need. Any tips?
Lighting Equipment
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dazzajl
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Can you be a little more specific about the job?
Unless you are going to need shots with a very small DoF I wouldn't have thought you would be needing (or even want) to use anything like f2.
I always take 4 or 5 flash heads to any location job. Although I prefer to use no more than 2 or 3 as you can create problems for yourself if you throw more lamps at it.
Unless you are going to need shots with a very small DoF I wouldn't have thought you would be needing (or even want) to use anything like f2.
I always take 4 or 5 flash heads to any location job. Although I prefer to use no more than 2 or 3 as you can create problems for yourself if you throw more lamps at it.
Yer I never get that one right. Photography stuff is always backwardsArkady said:
I'm thinking nice bokeh with the model and desk/table in the foreground desaturated with the logos shining through. I'm looking at renting some reflectors.You'll be better off with a three-head flash set-up.
Main light with a 1.5m Softbox (if the office is big enough) and two fill-lights with silver brollies lighting the background.
Practice first - don't whatever you do just turn up and hope it'll be alright. You'll end up looking a right prat.
This is what I use and it's very robust and versatile:
http://www.bowens.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_29&products_id=246
This is the newest version.
Main light with a 1.5m Softbox (if the office is big enough) and two fill-lights with silver brollies lighting the background.
Practice first - don't whatever you do just turn up and hope it'll be alright. You'll end up looking a right prat.
This is what I use and it's very robust and versatile:
http://www.bowens.co.uk/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21_29&products_id=246
This is the newest version.
dazzajl
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Not knowing anything about the size of the office or whether you will have any natural light to work with makes it dificult to give you any really useful advice but I can throw a few thinking points at you.
Firstly, refectors can be a nightmare on location shoots. There are often times that you can't get them to throw the light where you need it and keep them out of shot at the same time. It's often much easier to tuck a flash head behind a desk or under a chair, just poking out enough to enough to bounce light off the ceiling.
If you're planning to shot with a shallow DoF, then you can get away with fairly low powered flash heads and still balance these with the natural or room light. The only major issure here is if you then need to have a fairly long exposure time and having your model keeping still enough not to become a blur.
The biggest thing thing to watch out for if you end up using a few light sources is not to get unatural looking shadows. A well lit room will look stunning in the finished photos but if you get a flood lit football picth look it's much less satisfying.
HTH
Firstly, refectors can be a nightmare on location shoots. There are often times that you can't get them to throw the light where you need it and keep them out of shot at the same time. It's often much easier to tuck a flash head behind a desk or under a chair, just poking out enough to enough to bounce light off the ceiling.
If you're planning to shot with a shallow DoF, then you can get away with fairly low powered flash heads and still balance these with the natural or room light. The only major issure here is if you then need to have a fairly long exposure time and having your model keeping still enough not to become a blur.
The biggest thing thing to watch out for if you end up using a few light sources is not to get unatural looking shadows. A well lit room will look stunning in the finished photos but if you get a flood lit football picth look it's much less satisfying.
HTH
So £1k for the work, and then expenses on top of that? I've previously charged them £60 for small things. I was looking at charging them about £200. I thought £500 might be pushing it considering I'm newish.Arkady said:
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might sound stupid, but get a tripod......then if the light is rubbish, and the model can sit still for a second you can do it with a tripod, just a matter of getting the exposure right
(ps, i havent a clue what im on about, so disregard if carp...)
(ps, i havent a clue what im on about, so disregard if carp...)
We've been here before regarding pricing structures for jobs.
If it's a corporate client, are they employing you because you're good or because you're cheap?
If it's because you're good, then charge the going rate. Think if this was your only income - how many jobs would you have to do at £200 a pop to pay the mortgage and put food on the table?
Right - your time is worth at least £150 per hour - minimum 2 hour booking.
Setting up takes time - could they do it? No? Charge them for your expertise.
Can they operate the camera? No? Charge them for the expertise.
Models cost money - they pay for that too, unless you source the model, then you pay her and they pay you. Add 20% handling fee if you do the model booking as it's all extra work and time.
A corporate photo-shoot from an established company will cost about £5k minimum. If they balk at the cost, tell them to go elsewhere. Wait a couple of days and get in touch with your contact and ask how they're getting on.
If it's a corporate client, are they employing you because you're good or because you're cheap?
If it's because you're good, then charge the going rate. Think if this was your only income - how many jobs would you have to do at £200 a pop to pay the mortgage and put food on the table?
Right - your time is worth at least £150 per hour - minimum 2 hour booking.
Setting up takes time - could they do it? No? Charge them for your expertise.
Can they operate the camera? No? Charge them for the expertise.
Models cost money - they pay for that too, unless you source the model, then you pay her and they pay you. Add 20% handling fee if you do the model booking as it's all extra work and time.
A corporate photo-shoot from an established company will cost about £5k minimum. If they balk at the cost, tell them to go elsewhere. Wait a couple of days and get in touch with your contact and ask how they're getting on.
dazzajl
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I agree with Rob totally, there is nothing worse than undervaluing your work. I do think that £1k may be a little over the mark for this job but it could be close to that by the time you add on any expenses and the cost for the time you'll spend in post production to get the look they want.
If you're able to put the rental deposit on a credit card then it would be well worth it not only to have the right tools for the job but also to get an account running with them for future jobs.
If you're able to put the rental deposit on a credit card then it would be well worth it not only to have the right tools for the job but also to get an account running with them for future jobs.
If you continuously underprice your work, you'll be destined for small p1ssy little jobs for life, while all the time wondering why you're not making Big Bucks.
Photographers who make Big Bucks charge Big Bucks, it's that simple.
And clients pay because thay know that's what it costs these days.
Photographers who make Big Bucks charge Big Bucks, it's that simple.
And clients pay because thay know that's what it costs these days.
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Sorry I cannot offer anything technical - but Arkady and Dazzajl are right, it comes down to confidence to ask what its worth, and this might risk losing a few jobs, but if they wont pay for a professional service, they cant have one, they'll end up with some kid and no experience doing it - if money is the clincher.
Im a strong believer in you get what you pay for - and that doesnt mean you necessarily get ripped off. This is an expensive art, cameras, lenses, flashlights - all cost a hell of alot even at consumer level, what your talking about is definitely pro level territory and if they want that they will have to pay for it.
Better to quote them big, and turn up looking like your worth it with all the gear, than trying the blue peter approach and them being cheerful about the cost but p****d about the results later.
Also the fact is if you dont rate yourself nobody else will, so take a deep breath and go for - demand what you think your skills are worth, if thats too much for them I dont think its worth you wasting your time and effort.
Not much help, but hopefully some - good luck:thumb:
Im a strong believer in you get what you pay for - and that doesnt mean you necessarily get ripped off. This is an expensive art, cameras, lenses, flashlights - all cost a hell of alot even at consumer level, what your talking about is definitely pro level territory and if they want that they will have to pay for it.
Better to quote them big, and turn up looking like your worth it with all the gear, than trying the blue peter approach and them being cheerful about the cost but p****d about the results later.
Also the fact is if you dont rate yourself nobody else will, so take a deep breath and go for - demand what you think your skills are worth, if thats too much for them I dont think its worth you wasting your time and effort.
Not much help, but hopefully some - good luck:thumb:
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To maybe put it into perspective I get £200 now for going out to do a few horse portraits.
This is part of their whole marketing strategy. Believe me, that costs a small fortune, they know that and will have budgets already set aside.
Whether or not your realistic price matches their budget is a different matter, but that's up to them to worry about.
This is part of their whole marketing strategy. Believe me, that costs a small fortune, they know that and will have budgets already set aside.
Whether or not your realistic price matches their budget is a different matter, but that's up to them to worry about.
I've quoted them £1050 for my fee and another £150 for the lens and flash hire. I'm going to rent the flash for a week, its technically cheaper to than 2 days. That way I can get in some practice time. The shoot is 3hrs long, and the want bits of each photo to be desatured and other key elements in colour so thats at least 4hrs. Just waiting to hear back.
dazzajl
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:thumb: If you're expecting that much photoshop work then I'd say your pricing is spot on.
My only reservation (and this is no more than an observers comment) is that I'm not sure about adding on the hire charge in this case. If I have to get something in that is out of the ordinary then I'll always pass on the cost but from a clients point of view I would expect someone charging the going rate to have standard equipment like flash heads.
I don't want to come over in a negative way as I think you've done exactly the right thing by standing up for the value of your work.
My only reservation (and this is no more than an observers comment) is that I'm not sure about adding on the hire charge in this case. If I have to get something in that is out of the ordinary then I'll always pass on the cost but from a clients point of view I would expect someone charging the going rate to have standard equipment like flash heads.
I don't want to come over in a negative way as I think you've done exactly the right thing by standing up for the value of your work.
Yer it will be. Thanks for your help guys. It was certainly stressful dealing with this. Still gotta wait for them to say yes, practice with the setup and then actually do the shoot. :dizzy:
Funnily enough after this quote was sent I had my old friend asking to use an image for a 5000 person mailshot. This is the guy that wanted 4x4 foot posters doing for £60. I kept telling him no. I even said £50, which is very cheap. I told him months ago that I didn't want to undersell my work and he doesn't listen. I stuck to my guns and didn't let him have the image for free. I could clearly see he was desperate. He said to me that his client was "VERY BIG". I told him I had a willing paying client who dealt with the City of Culture stuff and they said £130 for a 1000 mail shot across Europe. He was like "fine then, don't do it". :nut:
Funnily enough after this quote was sent I had my old friend asking to use an image for a 5000 person mailshot. This is the guy that wanted 4x4 foot posters doing for £60. I kept telling him no. I even said £50, which is very cheap. I told him months ago that I didn't want to undersell my work and he doesn't listen. I stuck to my guns and didn't let him have the image for free. I could clearly see he was desperate. He said to me that his client was "VERY BIG". I told him I had a willing paying client who dealt with the City of Culture stuff and they said £130 for a 1000 mail shot across Europe. He was like "fine then, don't do it". :nut:
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If that was the case either your "old friend" is trying to rip you off by keeping all the money for himself, or he stupidly undercharged his very big client and is in a jam himself... either way is a good reason for sticking to your guns.petemc said:
Good for you for not selling yourself short, hope you get the new job :thumb:
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Good on ya Pete. Takes a while to get used to , but when playing in Corporate land they think nothing of spending thousands on a service.
Simple way to look at things are if you stick with higher paying clients, if they are happy with your work. they will pass your name on to other potential clients with similar budgets. Keep away from the likes of the firms you last describe above...they will only drag you down.
Simple way to look at things are if you stick with higher paying clients, if they are happy with your work. they will pass your name on to other potential clients with similar budgets. Keep away from the likes of the firms you last describe above...they will only drag you down.
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petemc said:
Well I must admit that I don't think this is the best of business practices mate, only from the point of view that it looks like you were trying it on with the first price.
Maybe in future you should consider a less drastic reduction but I do feel that if you have costed it to a certain price then maybe it should remain that price?
But it's all a learning experience.
Yer I totally get ya. I'm just so lost at business stuff. I'm just a web designer who likes to take photos. But it seems like a good opourtinity to take. The guy admited he thinks I'm worth it, and he didn't have a figure in mind. He never thought it would be this much. Given that my previous jobs have cost £60 I can fully appreciate that. Its good experience at a model shoot with studio lighting at a real PR company that would probably be viewing my work.
dazzajl
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I have to agree with Sammy here, it's a shame you had to go down this road. You might be a web designer taking photos but you want to do a professional job for them and they should pay professional money for it.
If you hadn't have done it for half price what would their options have been? I suspect they would have either got someone out of the yellow pages (or whatever) and had to pay them what you quoted or come back to you with more money or a scaled down request.
The other side of it is how it impacts on people like me who take pictures to pay the mortgage and feed the family. As an example, you can imagine how popular I'd be if I went down to my local cab rank and offered to drive people around at half fare for a bit of pocket money.
I don't want to have a go at you for your decision as we all start somewhere and as you've found out, it's very difficult to stick to your guns on pricing early on. I would advise you to have good think about this though if you want to start taking jobs for money. Once you get a rep for being a bloke that'll take pics on the cheap, you may find it almost impossible to break free of it.
All that said, I still hope you get the shoot as it will be a great learning curve and will hopefully boost your confidence for the next one.
D
If you hadn't have done it for half price what would their options have been? I suspect they would have either got someone out of the yellow pages (or whatever) and had to pay them what you quoted or come back to you with more money or a scaled down request.
The other side of it is how it impacts on people like me who take pictures to pay the mortgage and feed the family. As an example, you can imagine how popular I'd be if I went down to my local cab rank and offered to drive people around at half fare for a bit of pocket money.
I don't want to have a go at you for your decision as we all start somewhere and as you've found out, it's very difficult to stick to your guns on pricing early on. I would advise you to have good think about this though if you want to start taking jobs for money. Once you get a rep for being a bloke that'll take pics on the cheap, you may find it almost impossible to break free of it.
All that said, I still hope you get the shoot as it will be a great learning curve and will hopefully boost your confidence for the next one.
D
I know, i know 
I still haven't got the job for £500 yet. It just seems that everyone is always telling me "ooh thats too much mate." I really don't want people to think that I'm cheap either. If I had plenty of work coming in I would totally stick to my guns, but I'm in debt and £500 is better than nothing at the mo. I've done jobs for this guy before for £60, so I'm sure thats why he was suprised.
I still haven't got the job for £500 yet. It just seems that everyone is always telling me "ooh thats too much mate." I really don't want people to think that I'm cheap either. If I had plenty of work coming in I would totally stick to my guns, but I'm in debt and £500 is better than nothing at the mo. I've done jobs for this guy before for £60, so I'm sure thats why he was suprised.