Lighting advice please - Against a white wall

ScarySquirrel

ScarySquirrel

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Hello,

I need some advice/tips please.

I am doing a portrait of everyone at my company tomorrow for internal use, and external marketing. I have a white wall, a shoot through umbrella and a 24" softbox. The background doesn't NEED to be completely white, in fact, they like the idea of it being with a grey gradient.

They have some shots already of some staff, but only about 10 people, so they want them done again for everyone, and have asked me to do it.

This is an example of one they already had, and how they would like me to do it. I would like to do something similar, but better obviously :)

4026604914_ff9ff85608.jpg


I'm thinking shoot through umbrella high and to one side (45 degree to subject) as main light, producing enough spill to whiten the background a bit.

Then the softbox to the left of the subject at a 90 degree angle for some fill light. Please excuse this awful diagram.


71501576.jpg



Or would you recommend something different with the setup I have?

Spanks.
 
Chaz Photos said:
I think your softbox will make a better main light as the shoot thru will give a much wide light. I would move subject away from the wall more
Click to expand...

The diagram above isn't to scale :lol: :D

So use the softbox as the main light, which would leave the wall quite dark. Perhaps use the umbrella on the wall, and utilise the spill from that to fill in the shadows left by the softbox?
 
why say yes and put yourself through this stress if you don't know how to start?
 
awp said:
why say yes and put yourself through this stress if you don't know how to start?
Click to expand...

I'm a bit confused by your post. Firstly, this really is not stressful, it is a semi-serious portrait shoot with some friends at work to help out on some marketing material.

Secondly, I do know where to start, but there is no harm in asking if anyone else has done something similar and asking for advice on the exact lighting setup. Look at my Flickr, it's not as if I have never done people photography before.

:)
 
ScarySquirrel said:
The diagram above isn't to scale :lol: :D

So use the softbox as the main light, which would leave the wall quite dark. Perhaps use the umbrella on the wall, and utilise the spill from that to fill in the shadows left by the softbox?
Click to expand...

I was thinking more like you swop them around as well so the wall will get lit from the shoot thro. i said about distance from wall looking at your sample photo
 
awp said:
why say yes and put yourself through this stress if you don't know how to start?
Click to expand...

If you take that attitude - you never get anywhere :nono:

OP - Cant really give any advice as I'm just learning lighting at the moment,

Can you set up a similar setup at home and rope some mates in to try different setting light positions ? this approach is working for me at there mo
 
OK - I've looked at your Flickr and you clearly do know how to take great people pictures. Not sure I understand why you're asking the question now. The difference here I suppose is that you have to work to a brief - something pros have to do every day. It does change things a little. These shots could be done with a single light - and it shouldn't be too difficult to produce a better result than the example above!
 
Chaz Photos said:
I think your softbox will make a better main light as the shoot thru will give a much wide light. I would move subject away from the wall more
Click to expand...
Agreed. The softbox is a more controlled light, in this situation it would make sense to use it as the key light.

The umbrella light then becomes the fill light. You don't seem to understand the principle of fill lighting - the fill light goes on axis with the camera lens, where it illuminates ALL of the subject as seen by the camera - NOT on the opposite side to the key light, putting it there just creates a second sun, which can't look natural on any planet on which there is only 1 sun:)
So, put your umbrella light immediately behind and a bit above you. It needs to go behind so that flare from it doesn't affect the shot. It needs to go a bit above so that you're not blocking too much of the light with your own body.
Job done.
 
That exactly the kind of advice I was looking for, thank you.

My understanding of light is VERY limited right now, and all of the portraits on my Flickr are just using one light so it has been hard to get it wrong so far :D

Thanks all.
 
Looking at some of the latest model stuff that is coming out of the London fashion houses, it is becoming quite in vogue now to have a shadow from the subject on the background.

If you have a bit of licence on this shoot why not have them standing side on to the wall, maybe leaning against it with head tilted until it is resting on the wall. You should be able to get a good effect with only one light (softbox) this way.
 
you got both these lights and a plain wall and a model?

do some screwing around

I personally really like the grey bg look of working well above the ambient with a light in close to the subject and a variable distance between the subject/light combo and the wall
 
:lol: sorry to interject but that is perhaps THE greatest lighting setup diagram I have ever seen!
10/10 for that!

/end interruption
 
ScarySquirrel said:
I'm a bit confused by your post...
Click to expand...

One interpretaion might be that you should hire a professional to do the shoot for you. If wouldn't say that, but others might...

Garry Edwards said:
Agreed. The softbox is a more controlled light, in this situation it would make sense to use it as the key light.

The umbrella light then becomes the fill light. You don't seem to understand the principle of fill lighting - the fill light goes on axis with the camera lens, where it illuminates ALL of the subject as seen by the camera - NOT on the opposite side to the key light, putting it there just creates a second sun, which can't look natural on any planet on which there is only 1 sun:)
So, put your umbrella light immediately behind and a bit above you. It needs to go behind so that flare from it doesn't affect the shot. It needs to go a bit above so that you're not blocking too much of the light with your own body.
Job done.
Click to expand...

I'm not sure about this second sun theory. I am current sitting in a room with three lights. During the day the room is illuminated by two windows. Everything looks natural enough to me. So long as one light is dominant and you don't have conflicting shadows, trying to mimmick the sun isn't an idea I hold with, and isn't the basis for any portriat lighting that I know of :shrug:

Each to their own but I certainly don't put a fill light in line with the camera. If I want it to soften shadows, I put it where it will best do that which is on the opposite side to the main light. I do however, turn it down a lot so it looks more like a reflector than a second light. In fact I'm usually happier using a reflector on the shadow side and wouldn't bother with a second light for a simple portrait. TBH I only ever use a second light to make the main light bigger, for full length/group perhaps, or as a background light or effect light.

Looking through your flikr I don't think you need too much help. Some very nice work there. And who is Helen? :naughty:

Judging from your sample shot, a less conventional style might be in order but FWIW I would use the bigger of your two lights as the main light, which is maybe the shoot-through? Unless spill is going to be a problem perhaps in a very small room.

I'd go further and probably make the shadow and fall-off on the wall a deliberate part of the shot as Al suggested. Basically just the shoot-through, reflector, and position the subject a careful distance from the wall to get a shadow graphic going. If the shadow thing appeals, you will get a stronger shadow from the smaller softbox and more coontrol as Garry says. Just a thought - keep it simple and concentrate on the subject.

You could also get two looks going quite easily. The first as above, but also have the second light killing the background shadow and get the subject to move away from the wall a bit more - basically just getting rid of the shadow for a more conventional style. The two shots shouldn't be any more than switching the second light on and off again.

Edit: if you go for the shadow idea, getting your subjects to wear a light top might help.
 
White wall? Get some gels and give it some colour.
 
I think I might try the subject leaning against the wall here, if the softbox is fairly big and close then the shadow on the wall will be large and soft, it's definately worth a try.

Sometimes I tend to write in shorthand and not explain myself as well as I should - I'm NOT saying that putting one light each side of the subject is always a bad thing - it can be ideal in some circumstances, for example if the subject has a very thin face that kind of lighting will make the face look fatter, and if it's a group then one light each side is 'safe'.

What I actually said was that fill light is always from the camera axis. In that position, it reaches all parts of the subject and, depending on the amount of light relative to the key light, can produce as much or as little fill as needed and cannot create its own, conflicting shadows.

That doesn't mean that a low powered opposite light is necessarily wrong, or a reflector in the same sort of position - just that those light sources are not fill lights.

And my main reason for using the shoot through umbrella for fill is that the light goes everywhere. And the safest place for it anyway is behind the camera, where it can't cause flare.
 
seen gentle on axis fill used to great effect with a hard light key before

was a strobist post a few weeks back
 
smoothedit said:
:lol: sorry to interject but that is perhaps THE greatest lighting setup diagram I have ever seen!
10/10 for that!

/end interruption
Click to expand...

Thanks :D


Reason for white wall = they want black and white
Reason for not hiring a professional = this isn't that serious, but I want to do a good job
Reason for back against the wall, front on photo = this is what they want

We're a design agency though, so it needs to be a little quirky, so I'm going to get people to 'be themselves' and hopefully will get some good character shots.

Thanks for the lighting advice, I'll try a few things out based on what has been said and see how I get on. Should be fun :)

HoppyUK said:
Looking through your flikr I don't think you need too much help. Some very nice work there. And who is Helen? :naughty:
Click to expand...

Thanks for the kind comment :)

Helen is my girlfriend, and very willing model :D
I've learnt a lot from her (photography related I mean ;))

Great advice too, thanks.
 
How did you get on with this?
 
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