Light meters are they worth it? find out

[realspeed]

I decided to do a simple test using my Nikon D800 with an AFS 24-70mm lens and a Hoya Pro1 77mm MC UV (01) filter.
The question I asked myself is a seperate light meter a useful bit of kit to add to my photographic equipment. Some time ago I purchased aSeconic L-308s meter . Ok I know was it worth it? Well I managed to persuade "er Indoors" I needed it so she opened her Egyptian purse and after the butterflies had gone so came up with the cash of mine.
To be honest I have very rarely used it but thought it was about time. So this evening I tried a little experiment and went into the back garden

First of all the subject was the oak tree trunk just using the camera in aperture mode and locked the "L" setting when at trunk
Next was to take the meter to the tree trunk and got this and used meter reading
Finally camera at shooting position unlocked "L" setting



camera at trunk



Meter at trunk




camera at shooting position




So from my simple test and to my mind a meter is definately worth the money to bring up the darker areas What do members think

 

[dizidav]

If you are in a setting with a lot of varience of light, ie. bright sunlight and deep shadows, definately worth the bother.

 

[sep9001]

Thank you for posting your results. The only time I have used my one is when I am using studio lights.

 

[realspeed]

I have left the Exif datas available if anyone wants to do that kind of comparison

I don't remember having seen this type of comparison before on here. So it might give those thinking about getting a light meter some idea of what it is like using one

 

[Deleted member 21335]

It does depend what metering mode you had your camera set to for the first shot in AV mode. If you had it in matrix metering for example, the camera would try and find a value for the entire scene. By walking to the trunk with your handheld meter, you were then metering for and exposing for the shadows, hence the shot being lighter overall. The beauty of shooting with digital is you can take the first shot in a situation like this, see if it's too dark or light for your goals and then adjust accordingly. I personally hate using digital for anything personal (non-wedding related) so always, always have a handheld meter, even when my film cameras have a built in meter.

 

[realspeed]

Gareth Incase you missed it this was just a straight comparison between the camera and seperate meter

 

[dinorock]

This is not about "aperture mode" this is about the metering mode, if you had spot metered on the trunk you would have got the same result, hth mike. I only use my sekonic for indoors.

 

[realspeed]

Mike you too have missed the point . I repeat it was a straight comparison between camera and meter, not about spot- matrix or any other camera setting. I wonder if it was worth the effort to show a meter against a camera. You are all trying to add technical comparisons on camera settings

 

[dinorock]

Mike you too have missed the point . I repeat it was a straight comparison between camera and meter, not about spot- matrix or any other camera setting

Then you sir are not using you camera properly, it has a meter in it you just need to use it.

 

[realspeed]

Mike yes I could use manual mode and the camera readings but again you don't understand what I am trying to point out. having been taking photos for the last 55 years or more I think I do have some idea how to use a camera. How did you get on with a brownie 127 box camera? that was my first back in the 1950,s.

 

[stevelmx5]

They do have a point though, in that you've compared the inbuilt light meter of the camera (using whichever metering mode you chose) and the spot metering of the light meter directly on the shadows. Light meters have their use in studio but I can't help feeling that it's not adding much for most other situations when it's quicker to spot meter and chimp than take a manual reading and adjust the camera accordingly? I shoot more film than digital and generally just use a light meter app on my phone.

Glad you're enjoying using it though, I'm sure you'll get a lot infuse out of it in your photography which is the important thing.

 

[sk66]

but again you don't understand what I am trying to point out.

I'm not understanding either...
The manner/mode in which the camera meter is used will impact the results/comparison. Just as the manner/mode in which the Sekonic is used will impact the results.

 

[dinorock]

Ok to simplify things your camera is your sekonic light meter, its just built in to your camera. So using another meter to do the same thing is
1 pointless
2 just another step you don't need to do.

 

[arthurbikemad]

I use mine 99% solely for flash, I like to meter each flash separately so I can see the output in numbers otherwise I use the cameras meter and EC to get the shot.

It's important to understand incident and reflected light and how the camera tries to create an exposure based on it meter mode and reading.

 

[Nawty]

Mike you too have missed the point . I repeat it was a straight comparison between camera and meter, not about spot- matrix or any other camera setting. I wonder if it was worth the effort to show a meter against a camera. You are all trying to add technical comparisons on camera settings

Errr, yes it is, it is very much about camera settings, camera meter settings. And by using them you could get the same result as the sekonic. OTOH I have been told a light meter is useful for incident light readings but that's not what's been done here.

I don't use a light meter as I have an EVF with built in gizmos so I can look at the exposure in a number of different ways depending on the requirement.

edit: also it seems the framing has changed and the sun has significantly changed position between the shots which makes the comparison a bit null and void.

 

[Mark G]

I use a light meter for when I'm using my studio lights or if I'm shooting one of my meterless film cameras, but that's about it. If I'm outdoors shooting ambient light, I use the built in meter. I usually leave it to meter for the entire scene, however, if I was to shoot your tree as you have in your sample then I would have chosen to use Spot metering in the camera and then it would have provided the same result as your handheld light meter.

I realise that you've been shooting for 55 years and I don't want you to take this the wrong way, but it seems that you may not be aware of the full ability of the light meter that is already built into your camera.

 

[Mark G]

I'm reading your original post again now and beginning to wonder if you walked up to the tree, filled the frame with the tree trunk and locked the exposure. Then retreated to the shooting difference and made the shot. Is this what you mean by the "L" setting?

That would make a difference when metering the scene, However, you could have just stayed at shooting distance and used spot metering.

 

[Yardbent]

@realspeed

I have a Weston Master V from 1966 ..........yep... with leather case and invercone
still works too - but I now only use it - sometimes - to check/verify the 'needle indication' on my manual Canon cameras ... still fun to use though

must admit on the D300 I swop between 'spot' and 'matrix' depending on the scene subject

nevertheless -- thanks - interesting read....

 

[skysh4rk]

Well, I'm sort of confused by this thread and I'm not quire sure what the OP is trying to show, but a couple of things to point out.

Ok to simplify things your camera is your sekonic light meter, its just built in to your camera. So using another meter to do the same thing is
1 pointless
2 just another step you don't need to do.

Well, not quite. A Sekonic L308 is an incident meter, while your camera would have a reflective meter. They definitely do not measure light the same way and there are advantages/disadvantages to both. That said, whether it's made a difference and is worth the effort in this case is debatable.

They do have a point though, in that you've compared the inbuilt light meter of the camera (using whichever metering mode you chose) and the spot metering of the light meter directly on the shadows.

To clarify a point here, the Sekonic L308 does not offer spot metering. It is an incident meter that also has some rudimentary reflective capability.

 

[HoppyUK]

Sorry Baz, but this is an invalid and completely meaningless comparison. You didn't even take them all at the same time! Look at the shadows in the bottom pic - it's effectively a different scene.

 

[ohms12]

Sorry Baz, but this is an invalid and completely meaningless comparison. You didn't even take them all at the same time! Look at the shadows in the bottom pic - it's effectively a different scene.

Beat me to it. This test makes no sense whatsoever unless you take 3 shots at the same time.

 

[HoppyUK]

Beat me to it. This test makes no sense whatsoever unless you take 3 shots at the same time.

That's just one obvious flaw, there are plenty of others.

 

[ohms12]

That's just one obvious flaw, there are plenty of others.

Like the fact he's probably using matrix metering for the in camera shot, then spot metering for the external, probably in the shadows? Indeed. A test with no constant is no test at all.

 

[frod]

As an aside it would be interesting to have a meter mode that forcibly lowered exposure to guarantee no blown out highlights.

 

[chris malcolm]

Scenes which are unusually light, such as a snow scene, or dark, such as the interior of a church, require exposure compensation. How much? That's where incident light meter readings come in useful. It's true I could turn my camera into an incident meter by using a calibrated styrofoam coffee cup, but that would only work with lenses which fitted the cup, and carrying something so fragile would be a bit of a bother.

Sometimes I have a few lenses in my bag and want to take some interior photographs. Is there enough light for my zoom, and should I switch to a wide aperture prime? I could pull out the camera with the zoom on, switch it on, and check exposure, then if necessary change lenses. Sometimes it's sufficiently dim that I decide I should come back later with a tripod or other camera support. If I happen to have a meter with me I can take these decisions without having to get the camera out. Given that my current camera is close to ISOless, can make the grey level histogram visible in live view or EVF, and they both can be switched to show the result of exposure changes I probably wouldn't have bought a meter when the old one died were it not for its great usefulness in setting up multiple flashes. Having justified its purchase for multiple flash work I often put it in the bag when I suspect I may encounter some awkward lighting conditions.

 

[stevelmx5]

As an aside it would be interesting to have a meter mode that forcibly lowered exposure to guarantee no blown out highlights.

Every camera has that, it's exposure compensation? You can just spot meter for the highlights and dial in compensation for the rest.

 

[gadgeteer]

As others have said, a lightmeter is only useful for that point you are metering. More useful for portraits than a landscape photo.

I have the L385 after upgrading from the 308. To be honest with you I don't use it in the real world. I've even stopped taking it to weddings. I use it purely for measuring flash outputs now for my reviews. Otherwise I'd get rid of it entirely.

 

[NeilA1975]

As others have said, a lightmeter is only useful for that point you are metering. More useful for portraits than a landscape photo..

Completely disagree - I use a Sekonic 758D 1% spot meter all the time for my landscape work - easy as pie to use and accurate especially when it comes to establishing filter strengths. Sure I could use the D800E's internal spot meter but the larger area it covers is not wholly accurate with a WA lens.

 

[gadgeteer]

Fair enough. If it works for you then great. I'm not really a landscape tog so happy to be corrected.

 

[HoppyUK]

Completely disagree - I use a Sekonic 758D 1% spot meter all the time for my landscape work - easy as pie to use and accurate especially when it comes to establishing filter strengths. Sure I could use the D800E's internal spot meter but the larger area it covers is not wholly accurate with a WA lens.

The best guide to optimum exposure is blinkies and the histogram. The LCD image will also show you the actual effect of a grad filter of course, including the influence lens aperture has on the graduation line, which the meter cannot. A hand meter really has no practical benefits with a modern DSLR.

 

[juggler]

Slightly OT.. but this article includes a chart showing how different colours produce different reflective metering results under identical lighting. Ignore all the 'simplified zone system' stuff and scroll down to the 'zones and colours' section.

Note that your camera or reflective meter may behave differently:

http://www.normankoren.com/zonesystem.html

fwiw I find a meter invaluable in the studio - though I use it less when I shoot tethered - and doubly invaluable when balancing ambient & flash.

 

[NeilA1975]

The best guide to optimum exposure is blinkies and the histogram. The LCD image will also show you the actual effect of a grad filter of course, including the influence lens aperture has on the graduation line, which the meter cannot. A hand meter really has no practical benefits with a modern DSLR.

Thanks but Im well aware of how to use my camera - as I said a 1% degree spot meter is more accurate than the cameras internal spot meter, thats why I use it.

 

[Phil V]

Thanks but Im well aware of how to use my camera - as I said a 1% degree spot meter is more accurate than the cameras internal spot meter, thats why I use it.

But how far out of 18% reflectance is the shadow side of a fake tanned face 6ft from the window in a holiday inn hotel room?

The point about a spot meter isn't how accurate it is but how accurate the operators understanding of what the spot is measuring. And that's the reason I never use a spot meter. I can spot an average 'scene' to lock an exposure on, but there's not often an average 'spot' and I've no idea how far from 'average' a small spot would be.

 

[NeilA1975]

But how far out of 18% reflectance is the shadow side of a fake tanned face 6ft from the window in a holiday inn hotel room?

Can't say i've taken many landscapes images of said description!

The point about a spot meter isn't how accurate it is but how accurate the operators understanding of what the spot is measuring.

Yep. For me the 1 degree spot meter is more accurate v the cameras larger area spot meter.

And that's the reason I never use a spot meter. I can spot an average 'scene' to lock an exposure on, but there's not often an average 'spot' and I've no idea how far from 'average' a small spot would be.

For landscapes I have a simple process that works 100% of the time. Spot meter is calibrated to my camera and its dynamic range.

1. Meter off a middle grey card, in my case a QP card. This is my base exposure.
2. Meter the brightest part of the scene, usually the sky, filter anything above 2.6 stops above base exposure.

Job done.

 

[DG Phototraining]

The best guide to optimum exposure is blinkies and the histogram. The LCD image will also show you the actual effect of a grad filter of course, including the influence lens aperture has on the graduation line, which the meter cannot. A hand meter really has no practical benefits with a modern DSLR.

Hoppy beat me to this one

Spot-metering a landscape at 1% = POINTLESS waste of time (in pretty much the same way the OP's "test" was)

I had a flashmeter once, sold it, didn't need that either

Dave

 

[NeilA1975]

Hoppy beat me to this one

Spot-metering a landscape at 1% = POINTLESS waste of time (in pretty much the same way the OP's "test" was)

I had a flashmeter once, sold it, didn't need that either

Dave

Each to their own but would strongly disagree. Certainly for the type of photography i do, its an extremely helpful and quick tool to use.

 

[Phil V]

Can't say i've taken many landscapes images of said description!



Yep. For me the 1 degree spot meter is more accurate v the cameras larger area spot meter.



For landscapes I have a simple process that works 100% of the time. Spot meter is calibrated to my camera and its dynamic range.

1. Meter off a middle grey card, in my case a QP card. This is my base exposure.
2. Meter the brightest part of the scene, usually the sky, filter anything above 2.6 stops above base exposure.

Job done.

Then you should have qualified your original response with what you were shooting and how much faff it costs.

Lots of people don't have the time to mess about like that, we need to get the shot.

 

[Ed Sutton]

As an aside it would be interesting to have a meter mode that forcibly lowered exposure to guarantee no blown out highlights.

Nikon now has a Highlight Priority mode which does just that. Tends to make everything else black though!

 

[NeilA1975]

Then you should have qualified your original response with what you were shooting and how much faff it costs.

Lots of people don't have the time to mess about like that, we need to get the shot.

Or perhaps you should have read the thread - as usual.
Oh and its no faff, takes less time than figuring out which strength filter to use.

I use a Sekonic 758D 1% spot meter all the time for my landscape work - easy as pie to use and accurate especially when it comes to establishing filter strengths. Sure I could use the D800E's internal spot meter but the larger area it covers is not wholly accurate with a WA lens.

 

[HoppyUK]

Thanks but Im well aware of how to use my camera - as I said a 1% degree spot meter is more accurate than the cameras internal spot meter, thats why I use it.

I didn't say you didn't know how to use a camera, or that spot metering couldn't give very good results. What I said is that a hand meter adds nothing to the capability of a modern DSLR that not only has an excellent meter (can take incident readings if you like) but a couple of other exposure aids in the histogram and blinkies that show what is actually recorded on the sensor. You can't get better than that.

To add though, I often use a meter for setting up multiple flash heads in the studio. It's just so much quicker/easier to get the ratios right, but even then I use blinkies to set the final exposure.