Lewis Hamilton

Considering he now stands head and shoulders above any current driver. he is a remarkably normal bloke.
Best ever probably, as that can only be measured by where you compare against the current competition, and your record in getting there.

started winning with his 7th F1 race and was the youngest World Champion (Vettel took that mantle but has been unable to keep up with Hamilton since then)
Hamilton now holds or shares all the top records in F1.

There is no doubt that his Colour and black politics, and reputation as a high liver when off duty, puts some peoples prejudices into overdrive.
But there is no way that those things have affected his ability or determination to win,
This last race exemplified both his skill as a driver, his decision making. and the trust that he has in his own judgement about what he has to do to win a race.

The car he drives is important, but he does not only take advantage of that, he adds to it.
Bottas driving the same car yesterday was totally out of his depth in the conditions. The car's extreme performance attributes were more a liability, than a strength, in those conditions.
And lesser performance cars were perhaps easier to control. yet Hamilton did not spin once, even though he spent much of the race with near bald tyres. and finished on virtual slicks. he made his way trough the field in a slow but determined manner, he knew what he needed to do, and did it to perfection, winning by a record margin.
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
Considering he now stands head and shoulders above any current driver. he is a remarkably normal bloke.
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I would say he is the complete opposite. Just because he is a multiple world champion that shouldn't have any bearing on him as a person.
I have met Jackie Stewart, Stirling Moss, Alex Zanardi, Lando Norris (pre F1) Jenson Button, Mark Webber and Nigel Mansell, all who I would describe as normal people regardless of whether they have won a championship of not.
The Ice man, Kimi has more personality than Lewis.
 
I used to like Hamilton, he seemed like a decent, grounded lad and extremely good in a racing car. You knew he was exceptional from the off in 2007. Along the way though he's alienated supporters with the political outbursts and preaching environmentalism while jetting around the world, comes across as trying too hard to be liked by the woke brigade. Well done to him anyway but since 2014 he's had by far the most dominant cars in recent F1 history, far more so than Schumacher's Ferraris or Vettel's Red Bulls and he's had a support act teammate since 2017. Also F1 seasons now have a lot more races which massively inflates the numbers with a dominant car. I think he's one of the best ever but definitely not the best. Of this crop I think Verstappen could beat him in a Mercedes. As for the bloke he's deposed there was a great battle between Hamilton and Schumacher at Monza 2011, worth a watch if you can find it on YouTube. In his prime Schumacher beats Hamilton for me but no doubt LH is a cleaner driver.
 
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nilagin said:
I would say he is the complete opposite. Just because he is a multiple world champion that shouldn't have any bearing on him as a person.
I have met Jackie Stewart, Stirling Moss, Alex Zanardi, Lando Norris (pre F1) Jenson Button, Mark Webber and Nigel Mansell, all who I would describe as normal people regardless of whether they have won a championship of not.
The Ice man, Kimi has more personality than Lewis.
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Your opinion.
All people who reach that level of celebrity, have to establish some sort of mask or shield to protect themselves.

It would seem it is you who have the problem connecting with him.
 
Excellent result yesterday, all the more so by winning the race!
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Your opinion.
All people who reach that level of celebrity, have to establish some sort of mask or shield to protect themselves.

It would seem it is you who have the problem connecting with him.
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And yet I have mentioned 7 F1 drivers that I have met, that have reached that level of celebrity, and they don't need a mask or shield to protect themselves.
 
nilagin said:
And yet I have mentioned 7 F1 drivers that I have met, that have reached that level of celebrity, and they don't need a mask or shield to protect themselves.
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Everyone has public and private personae. It is the way we are.
We find it more difficult to respond to people in like our selves.
I would suggest that you do not identify with Hamilton in the same way as you do with the other drivers.

Other people clearly do.
 
There can be absolutely no doubt that Lewis Hamilton is the greatest F1 driver OF THIS ERA. He has joined the ranks of his hero Senna and Fangio, Clarke, and other truly great F1 racing drivers but is no better than any of these - The cars, the tracks, the whole scenario are different from each era in Formula One history.

What I dislike him for is his using F1 to spout about his black politics. The only politics which should exist in F1 is between teams in the pit lane. And the same applies to politics not being appropriate in all other sports. Competitive sportsmanship should rise above politics and the irony is that sports is an arena in which competitors of all colours and creeds come together. Black pride does not have a justifiable place in F1 - Hamilton's great success proves that in itself.
 
RedRobin said:
What I dislike him for is his using F1 to spout about his black politics. The only politics which should exist in F1 is between teams in the pit lane. And the same applies to politics not being appropriate in all other sports. Competitive sportsmanship should rise above politics and the irony is that sports is an arena in which competitors of all colours and creeds come together. Black pride does not have a justifiable place in F1 - Hamilton's great success proves that in itself.
Click to expand...

does that mean you think any famous person automatically loses the right to an opinion on any political matter?
 
RedRobin said:
There can be absolutely no doubt that Lewis Hamilton is the greatest F1 driver OF THIS ERA. He has joined the ranks of his hero Senna and Fangio, Clarke, and other truly great F1 racing drivers but is no better than any of these - The cars, the tracks, the whole scenario are different from each era in Formula One history.

What I dislike him for is his using F1 to spout about his black politics. The only politics which should exist in F1 is between teams in the pit lane. And the same applies to politics not being appropriate in all other sports. Competitive sportsmanship should rise above politics and the irony is that sports is an arena in which competitors of all colours and creeds come together. Black pride does not have a justifiable place in F1 - Hamilton's great success proves that in itself.
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F1 is a99.99%. White dominated sport.
This needs to change
Hamilton's stand on racial issues is both understandable and necessary.
Sport has taken a stand against racism with complete agreement. In taking the knee in the top teams in UK football
Hamilton as the only black representative in F1 has taken a much needed lead. Only 7 0f the drivers are holding out. And all of the teams are supporting him.
 
boyfalldown said:
does that mean you think any famous person automatically loses the right to an opinion on any political matter?
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.... Of course it doesn't.

Please read my post again and you should be able to understand that I think that SPORTS personalities such as Lewis Hamilton should express their political opinions OUTSIDE their sport rather than hijack the sports venue with it.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
F1 is a99.99%. White dominated sport.
This needs to change
Hamilton's stand on racial issues is both understandable and necessary.
Sport has taken a stand against racism with complete agreement. In taking the knee in the top teams in UK football
Hamilton as the only black representative in F1 has taken a much needed lead. Only 7 0f the drivers are holding out. And all of the teams are supporting him.
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.... I challenge your figure of "99.9%" and therefore your claim that only 0.1% are non-White people within F1. Just consider the ethnicity of drivers on the grid. And if you also consider the ethnic race of all those employees behind the drivers including at the team factory bases, I am confident it will still be far more than just 0.1%.

Drivers should continue to gain their places in racing teams because of their skills and not to satisfy a ridiculous ruling about racial quotas.
 
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Terrywoodenpic said:
Everyone has public and private personae. It is the way we are.
We find it more difficult to respond to people in like our selves.
I would suggest that you do not identify with Hamilton in the same way as you do with the other drivers.

Other people clearly do.
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But some other people also clearly don't.
As I said when he first came to F1, Lewis was likeable, he came across as an everyday person. But as he became more successful he changed. The only time he comes across as an everyday person is with his brother or his dog.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
F1 is a99.99%. White dominated sport.
This needs to change
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How do you propose to change it.
I have been following various British and International motorsport championships for almost 30yrs, many of the British championships, have drivers from all over the world, yet very few of them have been black. If they aren't interested in the sport, they just aren't going to compete.
 
boyfalldown said:
does that mean you think any famous person automatically loses the right to an opinion on any political matter?
Click to expand...

I don't think Red Robin means that at all. I think this topic has a chance to become a runaway train perhaps it is best to close the topic now.
 
RedRobin said:
.... I challenge your figure of "99.9%" and therefore your claim that only 0.01% are non-White people within F1. Just consider the ethnicity of drivers on the grid. And if you also consider the ethnic race of all those employees behind the drivers including at the team factory bases, I am confident it will still be far more than just 0.01%.

Drivers should continue to gain their places in racing teams because of their skills and not to satisfy a ridiculous ruling about racial quotas.
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Do you really believe Hamilton is the only one and not any engineers etc.
The sport is racist by exclusion.
 
nilagin said:
How do you propose to change it.
I have been following various British and International motorsport championships for almost 30yrs, many of the British championships, have drivers from all over the world, yet very few of them have been black. If they aren't interested in the sport, they just aren't going to compete.
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To compete you have to bring sponsorship money to the team and it is in the millions. No money no seat. It is not a matter of being interested.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Do you really believe Hamilton is the only one and not any engineers etc.
The sport is racist by exclusion.
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How are they excluded? If they aren't interested in the sport, whether it is driving or being an engineer, it is nothing to do with racism.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
To compete you have to bring sponsorship money to the team and it is in the millions. No money no seat. It is not a matter of being interested.
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You have to work your way up through the ranks to be an F1 driver, most start with karting, before moving up through Formula Ford, Formula 3, etc. They don't cost millions and it doesn't matter what ethnicity a person is to be able to get into those.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Do you really believe Hamilton is the only one and not any engineers etc.
The sport is racist by exclusion.
Click to expand...

.... We may have got our wires crossed here. I am saying that Hamilton is not the only non-White in F1.

No-one is excluded on the grounds of their race. There is no racism as such in F1. It is a sport which is blessed with people of many different races, all working together in competitive teams. Everyone there is there on merit, which is as it should be. This includes the merit of bringing money to fund it happening for everyone's mutual enjoyment.
 
nilagin said:
You have to work your way up through the ranks to be an F1 driver, most start with karting, before moving up through Formula Ford, Formula 3, etc. They don't cost millions and it doesn't matter what ethnicity a person is to be able to get into those.
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.... Exactly! And ironically Hamilton is the perfect example of how his race/colour/ethnicity does not exclude a F1 driver from enormous success. He is the most successful and skilled F1 driver of this era.

Whether someone likes his personality or not is irrelevant. He doesn't seem to have much personality - I would far rather be in a dinner party with Daniel Ricciardo, Seb Vettel, or Mark Webber.
 
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So that's one aspect of motor sport explored. How about that of disability? Who, if anyone, is championing a level playing field for that within F1 these days? Of course, there was a time when things were different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Scott_Brown A truly forgotten motor sport hero. The chaps who raced in those days were the brave and fearless ones in my view and, sadly, far too few of them lived to tell the tale.
 
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Mr Badger said:
So that's one aspect of motor sport explored. How about that of disability? Who, if anyone, is championing a level playing field for that within F1 these days? Of course, there was a time when things were different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Scott_Brown A truly forgotten motor sport hero. The chaps who raced in those days were the brave and fearless ones in my view and, sadly, far too few of them lived to tell the tale.
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Not F1, but Billy Monger still competes after losing both legs in a Formula Ford race in 2017.
Nic Hamilton (Cerebral Palsy) races In BTCC
Alex Zanardi, ex F1 driver, lost his legs in a Cart race accident in 2001, he returned to racing two years later in the ETCC and then WTCC. He turned to paracycling, winning events in the 2012 Paralympics. Unfortunately he had an accident this year whilst paracycling and has been in a coma for several months.
 
Mr Badger said:
So that's one aspect of motor sport explored. How about that of disability? Who, if anyone, is championing a level playing field for that within F1 these days? Of course, there was a time when things were different. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archie_Scott_Brown A truly forgotten motor sport hero. The chaps who raced in those days were the brave and fearless ones in my view and, sadly, far too few of them lived to tell the tale.
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.... Regarding fully licensed racing drivers having physical disabilities, I know that drivers have to demonstrate to official examiners their ability to get out of their race car within a set timeframe. This is for their own safety in the event of a potential life threatening incident. The car also has to be equipped in an approved way to allow for the driver's disability. I know this firsthand through having been lent a disabled driver's full race car (not F1!!) registered for road use to be able to be driven to and from race meetings.

Again, I personally think it would be wrong for any authorities to insist that F1 has a quota of disabled drivers, or to insist that F1 has a quota of Black or indeed any other race/colour of driver. The best drivers regardless of their race or colour will rise to the top, as Hamilton has demonstrated.

The same applies to the acting industry. Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson has been the highest paid male actor for two years running. His great friend, the brilliant Black comedian and actor Kevin Hart, is always taking the p*** out of Black people playing the racist card.

One of the other famous American Black actors said earlier this year that one of the best ways to combat racism was not to make it such a big deal by talking about it.

Hamilton brought the subject into F1 and hence it is relevant to include it in any discussion about him here.
 
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nilagin said:
Not F1, but Billy Monger still competes after losing both legs in a Formula Ford race in 2017.
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.... Billy Monger is proving to be a good F1 commentator in Ch4 coverage of F1 and I predict that he will feature more in the future.
 
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RedRobin said:
.... Regarding fully licensed racing drivers having physical disabilities, I know that drivers have to demonstrate to official examiners their ability to get out of their race car within a set timeframe. This is for their own safety in the event of a potential life threatening incident. The car also has to be equipped in an approved way to allow for the driver's disability. I know this firsthand through having been lent a disabled driver's full race car (not F1!!) registered for road use to be able to be driven to and from race meetings.

Again, I personally think it would be wrong for any authorities to insist that F1 has a quota of disabled drivers, or to insist that F1 has a quota of Black or indeed any other race/colour of driver. The best drivers regardless of their race or colour will rise to the top, as Hamilton has demonstrated.

The same applies to the acting industry. Dwayne 'The Rock' Johnson has been the highest paid male actor for two years running. His great friend, the brilliant Black comedian and actor Kevin Hart, is always taking the p*** out of Black people playing the racist card.

One of the other famous American Black actors said earlier this year that one of the best ways to combat racism was not to make it such a big deal by talking about it.

Hamilton brought the subject into F1 and hence it is relevant to include it in any discussion about him here.
Click to expand...

I fully agree about 'quotas', I think it should all be based entirely on merit and ability. As for privilege, motorsport has always been an expensive sport, particularly as the standard at which someone is competing rises.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Do you really believe Hamilton is the only one and not any engineers etc.
The sport is racist by exclusion.
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That’s absurd. Demographics are a huge part of it and most people have very little interest in F1 or motorsport, but as there are fewer black people in our country there are less competing in karting. Similarly with female drivers or even if you pick out one or two young male drivers the chances of any reaching the top are minimal. There’s no barrier to their entry except the barrier that exists for all and that’s money - to fund a career in karting and junior formulas you have to have rich benefactors or sponsors. This trend of viewing everyone by their colour, religion or sex is divisively awful, it takes no account of a person’s individual character and their own merits. People should be free to achieve because they’re good enough and because they want to do something.
 
Scirocco_09 said:
That’s absurd. Demographics are a huge part of it and most people have very little interest in F1 or motorsport, but as there are fewer black people in our country there are less competing in karting. Similarly with female drivers or even if you pick out one or two young male drivers the chances of any reaching the top are minimal. There’s no barrier to their entry except the barrier that exists for all and that’s money - to fund a career in karting and junior formulas you have to have rich benefactors or sponsors. This trend of viewing everyone by their colour, religion or sex is divisively awful, it takes no account of a person’s individual character and their own merits. People should be free to achieve because they’re good enough and because they want to do something.
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Exclusion by wealth is a poor selector for anything..
in the 20th century virtually all middle and long distance runners were white, to day they are mostly black.
Sports like Rugby, foot ball and cricket have embraced people of all colours, and all colours have emerged at the top of the sports.
At one time Baseball had no black players. today many of the top stars are black.

It is not interest or ability that holds people back. it is the ethos and structure of the sport set up itself.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
It is not interest or ability that holds people back. it is the ethos and structure of the sport set up itself.
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Out of all motorsport, I can only think of one form where black people would have been excluded and that would have been Nascar. But even that has a black driver.
Motorsport is inclusive, but it just happens to be expensive.
 
There are certain areas of life - sports, arts etc, where different races/religions do not feature prominently. There are plenty of black footballers who are brilliant, cricketers, ahtletics. All these sports are easily afforded at grass roots level. Then take tennis and golf/badminton/squash, joining clubs, buying equipment, getting coaching - not cheap at all. Cycle racing is very expensive, then you have all the forms of motor sport - really, really expensive.
Adam Gemili is from mixed Iranian/Moroccan background and is still the only sprinter of middle Eastern/North African background, to have broken 10s and 20s for the 100m and 200m.
How many white sprinters have run faster than 9.8s for 100m. Nothing to do with discrimination, purely down to physiology.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
Exclusion by wealth is a poor selector for anything..
in the 20th century virtually all middle and long distance runners were white, to day they are mostly black.
Sports like Rugby, foot ball and cricket have embraced people of all colours, and all colours have emerged at the top of the sports.
At one time Baseball had no black players. today many of the top stars are black.

It is not interest or ability that holds people back. it is the ethos and structure of the sport set up itself.
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In baseball or running would you then say there's structural racism in those sports against white people? I agree on wealth, it really is a problem and doubtful we'll see any drivers from a poor background for some time
 
Scirocco_09 said:
In baseball or running would you then say there's structural racism in those sports against white people? I agree on wealth, it really is a problem and doubtful we'll see any drivers from a poor background for some time
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In running and basket ball there are millions of people of all races taking part. There are no restrictions whatsoever. At the top level in American sport, black sports people have been very successful. But not in the past, when they were largely excluded.
 
Terrywoodenpic said:
In running and basket ball there are millions of people of all races taking part. There are no restrictions whatsoever. At the top level in American sport, black sports people have been very successful. But not in the past, when they were largely excluded.
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.... But one of the points of what I have been saying in this thread is that exclusions are waaay in the past - Decades ago. Any whinging about it now is no longer relevant.

There are no restrictions in motorsport either - Lewis Hamilton has proved that beyond any doubt whatsoever. If a competitor is good enough they will find a way and rise accordingly - This is so in the world of acting too and not just sport.

In some fields of sport, Black people generally even have a physical advantage but we don't see any White Lives Matter or knee-bending knee-jerk reaction crap about that and neither do many people want to.
 
Scirocco_09 said:
I agree on wealth, it really is a problem and doubtful we'll see any drivers from a poor background for some time
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It depends on what level of wealth constitutes a poor background. The fact that Anthony Hamilton was working two jobs so Lewis could go karting, puts him into a poorer background. From there it is down to ability to drive and attract sponsorship, that depends on how successful you can be. One of my younger son's old school mates, didn't come from a particularly rich background, but his father did race in National Hotrods and then Legends, the father stepped back from racing to allow his son to race Karts. From karts he moved onto Junior Ginettas, but a repair bill from a heavy crash cut his season short. The following year he managed to get a cheap drive in Formula Ford with a fledgling team, hoping to get itself know, but money ran out as they were unable to get any meaningful sponsorship, I don't think he even did half the season. But he was on the same route as Lando Norris as plenty of others had done so before.
My son's mate had to give up on his F1 dream, he started racing Legends like his father did, no idea if he is still racing now at age 23.
 
There's an old but true saying that it's easy to make a small fortune in motor racing - start with a large one.
 
RedRobin said:
.... But one of the points of what I have been saying in this thread is that exclusions are waaay in the past - Decades ago. Any whinging about it now is no longer relevant.

There are no restrictions in motorsport either - Lewis Hamilton has proved that beyond any doubt whatsoever. If a competitor is good enough they will find a way and rise accordingly - This is so in the world of acting too and not just sport.

In some fields of sport, Black people generally even have a physical advantage but we don't see any White Lives Matter or knee-bending knee-jerk reaction crap about that and neither do many people want to.
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You seem to have a problem with Black issues. it is from those attitudes, that the problems arise.

I do not agree that Black people have a physical advantage.
in some sports Tall people have an advantage, in others people who live at high altitudes have an advantage. neither of these are racial characteristics.
Physical characteristics are not exclusively racial.
 
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