LET THOSE WITH THE BROADEST SHOULDERS BEAR THE HEAVIEST BURDEN….

BBR

BBR

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I am fed up with hearing politicians saying “Let those with the broadest shoulders bear the heaviest burden”

Seems to me this is already happening.

Someone on minimum wage doing a 45 hour week will pay £1780 in tax & NI, about a tenth of their earnings.

Someone on average pay will earn nearly twice the amount of the minimum wage earner but will pay about 3 times as much tax & NI, £5553, losing a fifth of their gross pay.

Someone on £100k pa will be earning nearly 4 times average pay but will be paying 6 times as much in tax and NI and will be losing over a third of their pay.


My interpretation of the above phrase is “ let those who take the biggest risks and work the hardest support everyone else including the lazy feckers”
 
dinners said:
Those who work hardest doesn't always = those who earn the most money.
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Actually I have to agree with this, and neither is it those who add the most value.

However my point is that those that earn the most are already paying considerably more both in actual £'s and as a %. The bottom 50% earners in the UK pay around 12% of total UK income tax, in other words the top 50% pay 88% of the tax, and that includes the top 1% of earners paying 25% of total income tax take.
 
The more you earn the more you pay as a % is very true.
not sure what the OP is on about to be honest.
 
But it goes back to the point Andy made about disposable income and what people can realistically be taxed.

Are you suggesting people should be taxed equally regardless of their income or just that it should be less weighted towards the higher earners ?
 
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I always find it slightly amusing when it is put forward that the tax burden of high earners is unreasonable. High earners pay more tax because (a) the tax rate on higher earnings is greater than on low earnings, and (b) they earn a LOT of money.

After the higher earners have paid their taxes/NI they still have a goodly wedge left. For example, if the figures in the first post are correct them someone earning £100k takes home about £66,000, or about 2.5 times the average gross pay.

Dave
 
I am saying that those with the "broadest soldiers" are already "carrying the heaviest burden"
and that trotting that phrase out to account for how they would afford further (new) spending is somewhat annoying, I infer from that phrase that those with higher salaries are not contributing enough, which I think is incorrect.
 
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BBR said:
I am fed up with hearing politicians saying “Let those with the broadest shoulders bear the heaviest burden”

Seems to me this is already happening.

Someone on minimum wage doing a 45 hour week will pay £1780 in tax & NI, about a tenth of their earnings.

Someone on average pay will earn nearly twice the amount of the minimum wage earner but will pay about 3 times as much tax & NI, £5553, losing a fifth of their gross pay.

Someone on £100k pa will be earning nearly 4 times average pay but will be paying 6 times as much in tax and NI and will be losing over a third of their pay.


My interpretation of the above phrase is “ let those who take the biggest risks and work the hardest support everyone else including the lazy feckers”
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Their were those Banker who took some big risks,and when it went tits up did they carry any burden,i think not :rolleyes:
 
BBR said:
I am saying that those with the "broadest soldiers" are already "carrying the heaviest burden"
and that trotting that phrase out to account for how they would afford further (new) spending is somewhat annoying, I infer from that phrase that those with higher salaries are not contributing enough, which I think is incorrect.
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Only it's not really a burden if you're earning that much.
 
Perhaps all the people earning over £100k should have their salaries slashed.

I'm sure they would be delighted if it meant paying less tax
 
BBR said:
However my point is that those that earn the most are already paying considerably more both in actual £'s and as a %. The bottom 50% earners in the UK pay around 12% of total UK income tax, in other words the top 50% pay 88% of the tax, and that includes the top 1% of earners paying 25% of total income tax take.
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One possible difference being the bottom 50% actually pay their taxes the top 50% pay their accountants to get them out of paying their taxes (generally speaking)
 
Steep said:
One possible difference being the bottom 50% actually pay their taxes the top 50% pay their accountants to get them out of paying their taxes (generally speaking)
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What percentage would constitute your "generally speaking"?
 
dinners said:
Perhaps all the people earning over £100k should have their salaries slashed.

I'm sure they would be delighted if it meant paying less tax
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I like that take a pay cut and pay less tax :)
 
Never quite understood why you should pay more towards running the country if you earn more, imagine if you had to pay more to have your bin emptied just because you had a nice house.......
 
mrgubby said:
, imagine if you had to pay more to have your bin emptied just because you had a nice house.......
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But you already do to some extent, the bigger the house and / or the more affluent the area you live in, the higher the council tax on that property ;)
 
Just had a play on this site.

http://www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/

A married couple both on minimum wage working full time earn about £22,400 after tax which puts them as earning more than 21% of the country.

A married couple on £30000 PA each, earn more than 74% of the country.

A married couple in the top 5% according to that site need to earn over £70,000 each, but they lose £25,000 tax each.

I personally hate it when people say 'top 5%.....' Without knowing how much they earn. It is more like the top 1%.

Earning £200,000 a year puts you in the top 3%.
 
Cobra said:
But you already do to some extent, the bigger the house and / or the more affluent the area you live in, the higher the council tax on that property ;)
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I forgot the tongue in cheek smiley.... :D
 
viv1969 said:
What percentage would constitute your "generally speaking"?
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I'll have my accountant tot up some figures and get back to you on that one.
 
Steep said:
I'll have my accountant tot up some figures and get back to you on that one.
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Which roughly translates to...."I have no idea". :-)
 
Steep said:
One possible difference being the bottom 50% actually pay their taxes the top 50% pay their accountants to get them out of paying their taxes (generally speaking)
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Let's be honest all but the very top will be on paye so won't have a method of avoiding
 
I'm going to try and not rant at this but...

Why should someone successful pay MORE than their fair share.

I have no problem with paying tax as long as its at the same rate as everyone else. I don't give a monkeys about who has the most disposable income. I run my own business. I've not had a holiday in 4 yrs. I'm on call 24 hrs. I have 30+ people relying on me to keep my business viable. I have all that and more to contend with. So why should I pay 40p for every £1 I earn over £42k. Why is my success penalized.

Its the same for these corporations that pay tax in another country. Simple to fix. Lower the % and they will pay tax in this country. That way Britain will get 17% (or whatever luxembourg) which is 100% more than they get now.

By increasing tax business WILL find away to keep more of it.

Its called self preservation.
 
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Dale_tem said:
Just had a play on this site.

http://www.ifs.org.uk/wheredoyoufitin/
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I just had a play

The bit about how they calculate for children is interesting. Modified OECD Equivalence Scale. In a household consisting of a couple with one child aged three, they would need an income 20 percent higher than a childless couple to attain the same standard of living.
 
mattyg said:
I'm going to try and not rant at this but...

Why should someone successful pay MORE than their fair share.

I have no problem with paying tax as long as its at the same rate as everyone else.
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Surely it is the same rate as everyone else.

20% up to 42K
then 40% up to 150K
then 45% above 150K
 
I'm presuming no one here operates under their own limited company and takes salary + dividends
 
so, minimum wage = lazy fecker?

Right......

muppet!
 
mattyg said:
I'm going to try and not rant at this but...

Why should someone successful pay MORE than their fair share.

I have no problem with paying tax as long as its at the same rate as everyone else. I don't give a monkeys about who has the most disposable income. I run my own business. I've not had a holiday in 4 yrs. I'm on call 24 hrs. I have 30+ people relying on me to keep my business viable. I have all that and more to contend with.
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Your choice. It's the rules!
 
mattyg said:
I have no problem with paying tax as long as its at the same rate as everyone else. I don't give a monkeys about who has the most disposable income. I run my own business. I've not had a holiday in 4 yrs. I'm on call 24 hrs. I have 30+ people relying on me to keep my business viable. I have all that and more to contend with. So why should I pay 40p for every £1 I earn over £42k. Why is my success penalized.
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I agree that hard work and success shouldn't be penalised, it's interesting how people in a situation like yours aren't the ones talked about in the media - it always seems to be about bankers and 'city fat cats' because politicians and media tell us to hate them and begrudge them earning high amounts.
 
I don't get why people's disposable income should come in to the equation, if we didn't have high earners then our economy would have to look very different. All those big houses (and the associated stamp duty/inheritance tax) will need to be demolished or split into affordable flats; shops/manufacturers selling high end equipment (cars, furniture, technology etc) would end up closing. And don't forget VAT is paid on all those purchases.
The higher the tax percentage for high earners is, the less money they have to spend on other things which are taxed and keep the economy going, so it needs to be kept sensible (which I think it is at the moment)
 
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mattyg said:
I'm going to try and not rant at this but...

Why should someone successful pay MORE than their fair share.

I have no problem with paying tax as long as its at the same rate as everyone else. I don't give a monkeys about who has the most disposable income. I run my own business. I've not had a holiday in 4 yrs. I'm on call 24 hrs. I have 30+ people relying on me to keep my business viable. I have all that and more to contend with. So why should I pay 40p for every £1 I earn over £42k. Why is my success penalized.

Its the same for these corporations that pay tax in another country. Simple to fix. Lower the % and they will pay tax in this country. That way Britain will get 17% (or whatever luxembourg) which is 100% more than they get now.

By increasing tax business WILL find away to keep more of it.

Its called self preservation.
Click to expand...

You earn over £42K and yet can't afford a holiday?
 
Find the time. Why can't somebody do your job for a fortnight?
 
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So we are all in agreement then, the current arrangements have got the balance about right?
 
BBR said:
I am fed up with hearing politicians saying “Let those with the broadest shoulders bear the heaviest burden”

Seems to me this is already happening.

Someone on minimum wage doing a 45 hour week will pay £1780 in tax & NI, about a tenth of their earnings.

Someone on average pay will earn nearly twice the amount of the minimum wage earner but will pay about 3 times as much tax & NI, £5553, losing a fifth of their gross pay.

Someone on £100k pa will be earning nearly 4 times average pay but will be paying 6 times as much in tax and NI and will be losing over a third of their pay.


My interpretation of the above phrase is “ let those who take the biggest risks and work the hardest support everyone else including the lazy feckers”
Click to expand...


Welcome to the real Tory manifesto, even if they don't dare say it out aloud.
 
TopBanana said:
I don't get why people's disposable income should come in to the equation, if we didn't have high earners then our economy would have to look very different. All those big houses (and the associated stamp duty/inheritance tax) will need to be demolished or split into affordable flats; shops/manufacturers selling high end equipment (cars, furniture, technology etc) would end up closing. And don't forget VAT is paid on all those purchases.
The higher the tax percentage for high earners is, the less money they have to spend on other things which are taxed and keep the economy going, so it needs to be kept sensible (which I think it is at the moment)
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One of our neighbours seems to like white cars. He has four of them. An MPV sized, so called MINI, a Range Rover and two modern Rolls Royce Phantoms, one a particularly vulgar convertible. That one of his four cars must have cost £250,000 which means £50,000 straight to the exchequer in VAT. Of the other £200,000 at least £30,000 must have been the labour costs of manufacture which means around another £12,000 in income tax and NI. Other taxes came out of that £200,000 pre VAT, and that's before he pays any WED, IPT or fuel duty!

I'm lucky. I'm not jealous of his cars so I don't subscribe to the nasty, mean-minded, politics of envy, but with that sort of tax take on his consumption - £65,000 to the Government from that one purchase alone - I'm not too excited about what other taxes he does or doesn't pay either.
 
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Personally I feel everyone regardless of wealth should pay the same rate of tax. I reckon many people wouldn't use avoidance if they weren't penalised for having/earning more than others. Go after corporations and make them adhere to the same rules as small businesses!
 
Ferj said:
Personally I feel everyone regardless of wealth should pay the same rate of tax. I reckon many people wouldn't use avoidance if they weren't penalised for having/earning more than others. Go after corporations and make them adhere to the same rules as small businesses!
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All people are taxed the same rate. 20% up to 42K, then 40% up to 150K, then 45% above 150K.

The difference is how much money people make.

If you wanted a single flat rate to cover everybody - what % would it have to be ?
 
dinners said:
All people are taxed the same rate. 20% up to 42K, then 40% up to 150K, then 45% above 150K.

The difference is how much money people make.

If you wanted a single flat rate to cover everybody - what % would it have to be ?
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20%
 
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