Lens advice please...

tjc

tjc

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Hi all.

Was just wondering if I could ask for some info/advice on getting a good lens for landscapes...

I`m gonna be getting a new Nikon D90 body very soon (but not for Chrimbo) so I`m gonna need a lens for it...

Landscape and outdoor photography is my thing so to speak, so a good lens for that is what I`m after.

Sadly, lol I cannot afford "top" quality but good quality glass is what I`m looking for. I`ll have a few hundred to spend (not exactly sure yet) so any suggestions from you good folk would very welcome.

Should I be looking for something like a 10-20 or a 12-24 or what? Prime or zoom?

What would be considered the best sort of lens for landscapes?

Cheers. :)
 
I picked up an old Sigma 15-30 and its also good for full frame (35mm )
but you have to watch out for flare...........

Nikon-F2-photomic-web-size.jpg
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Joe T said:
To be honest the 18-70 would do you pretty well to start with. Wide angles are good for landscapes but you need a 'standard zoom' as well imo.

Do you have any Nikon lenses already?
Click to expand...

Mmm... yeh I`ve thought about something like the 18-70 too but my "plan" lol was to get some good quality glass for landscapes atm and then maybe get another lens (or lens`s) that would do for... how would you say it... more "general" photography :shrug:

I`m liking the look of the Sigma 10-20mm...

In answer to your question I have the 18-55 and 55-200 VR kit lens`s that came with my D60...

I`m selling the D60 though so the lens`s will prob go too.

Does this "plan" kinda make sense? Tell me what you think. :D

Cheers Joe. :)
 
I would have a look at the tamron 17-35mm..recently got one of these and for the money it is very very good value!
 
I currently have the Tamron 17-50mm and do enjoy it a lot, I'm thinking of going a little wider and changing to two lenses...Tokina 12-24mm f4 and Tamron 28-75mm f2.8.

Could be a good choice for you too?
 
StuartH said:
I would have a look at the tamron 17-35mm..recently got one of these and for the money it is very very good value!
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sdb123 said:
I currently have the Tamron 17-50mm and do enjoy it a lot, I'm thinking of going a little wider and changing to two lenses...Tokina 12-24mm f4 and Tamron 28-75mm f2.8.

Could be a good choice for you too?
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Many thanks to both of you for your suggestions and input.

I`ll check your respective suggestions and see how I go.

Cheers both.

:thumbs:
 
Ok...

After a bit of thinking I`ve come to this decision (I think, lol)

Taking the crop factor into consideration (the D90 is 1.5x) I think I`m gonna go for the Sigma 10-20mm coz if my calculations are correct that`ll give me 16-30mm... which for landscapes, sounds good to me.

I hope I`ve got these calculations correct if not could someone put me right please... :D

Does this sound like a good choice?
 
:)

Ok... nice one. :D :D





Also looking at the Tokina 11-16mm. If anybody has one or has used one please let me know what you think of it.

Cheers. ;)
 
tjc said:
Also looking at the Tokina 11-16mm. If anybody has one or has used one please let me know what you think of it.

Cheers. ;)
Click to expand...

I had a look at one in Ffordes some time ago as I wanted one. They only had Canon fit though so bought a 12-24 instead.

I did try one on a Canon body though to see how much it differed and tbh the range wasn't that great - was told you should treat it more like a prime than a zoom.

I'm quite happy with my 12-24 Tokina now and find the 11-16 would be lacking too much for me in the long end of the zoom.
 
Cheers for your input Gramayr...

Good to hear from someone who has used one. Interesting to hear your thoughts too...

Man!

The world of "choosing the right lens" is a mighty confusin`... :D

I`ve not looked at the Tokina 12-24mm (I`ve looked at that many I`m not sure now)

But look at it I shall.

Cheers. :)
 
Another point about the Tokina 12-24 is that its a constant f4 through the zoom and the filter thread doesn't rotate when you zoom - the front element moves back and forth inside the barrel when zooming. Ideal when you have some filters added. It also looks pretty much the same as a Nikon 12-24 f4 but without the sonic motor. The 11-16 is roughly the same size of the 12-24.

Best thing would suggest is to go try both and see what you think.
 
Gramayr said:
Another point about the Tokina 12-24 is that its a constant f4 through the zoom and the filter thread doesn't rotate when you zoom - the front element moves back and forth inside the barrel when zooming. Ideal when you have some filters added. It also looks pretty much the same as a Nikon 12-24 f4 but without the sonic motor. The 11-16 is roughly the same size of the 12-24.

Best thing would suggest is to go try both and see what you think.
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Yeh...

I remember now (having looked again :D ) that I did look at the Tokina 12-24 and remember reading about the zooming info... quite nifty I think. :)

Cheers for that.

Ohh... it`s all decisions (curses... I miss not being able to LOL! :D )

Unfortunately I can`t go and try them as I live way up the top of Scotland and not ANYWHERE near any good camera shops... :( :bang:
 
Ok...

Time for the daft questions... :D :bonk:

I`ve been reading up on the Tokina 12-24mm f4.0 AT-X PRO (IF) DX (Nikon mount) a bit more and I`m starting to think it might be the one.

I think it on the front of the Nikon D90 should be sweet.

So here`s the daft question...

I know it`s a nikon fit etc but just want to check that it will fit and work ok with the D90. I ask as the info (haha) about the lens says it works best with DSLR`s that have a APS-C sized sensor and the all I know sensor wise about the D90 is that it has a CMOS sensor.

Will this be ok? Will that cause any problems of any kind?

Any help about this would be very much appreciated as I`m hoping to get the lens sorted out asap.

Also when I googled for this lens it came up with two options:

Tokina 12-24mm f4.0 AT-X PRO (IF) DX (Nikon mount)

Tokina 12-24mm f4.0 AT-X PRO (AF) DX (Nikon mount)

What`s the difference between the two and which would be best to go for?

Cheers. :)
 
towershot said:
With the 10-20 on a Nikon ,you get the equivalent of a 15-30 tjc, so a little wider than you thought.:thumbs:
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Aha...

Thanks for that towershot. :)

Do you happen to know the difference between these two lens`s?

Tokina 12-24mm f4.0 AT-X PRO (IF) DX (Nikon mount)

Tokina 12-24mm f4.0 AT-X PRO (AF) DX (Nikon mount)

When I google for it I get these two options but not sure what the difference is...

:)

I just can`t make my mind up between the Sigma 10-20mm, the Tokina 11-16mm or the Tokina 12-24mm... :bonk:
 
I'm 99.9% sure they're one and the same. The Tokina lens features internal focussing (IF) - the product name includes the AF part (going by their own website).
 
sdb123 said:
I'm 99.9% sure they're one and the same. The Tokina lens features internal focussing (IF) - the product name includes the AF part (going by their own website).
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Thanks sdb123.

When I first started on my new lens quest :D I looked at the Tokina web site but when I came across the apparent "two" lenses it was the last place I thought to look, :bonk:

Brains fried... :gag:
 
With respect mate, do you want to shoot landscapes, or buy a new camera? If it's the former, then get a wide zoom (Sigma's good but Nikon for preference), shoot at moderate apertures like f/5.8-8 for optimum sharpness, and use the hood. Get a tripod. Use a polarising filter. Work on panorama technique. With moving water, play with long shutter speeds (ND filter?). Work on your post-processing skills.

Don't need a new camera for any of that and frankly, lovely camera though the D90 is, you'll not notice any difference whereas, with the things suggested above, you will ;)

Good luck,

Richard.
 
HoppyUK said:
With respect mate, do you want to shoot landscapes, or buy a new camera? If it's the former, then get a wide zoom (Sigma's good but Nikon for preference), shoot at moderate apertures like f/5.8-8 for optimum sharpness, and use the hood. Get a tripod. Use a polarising filter. Work on panorama technique. With moving water, play with long shutter speeds (ND filter?). Work on your post-processing skills.

Don't need a new camera for any of that and frankly, lovely camera though the D90 is, you'll not notice any difference whereas, with the things suggested above, you will ;)
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Well said.

Except that I'd add this: don't go too overboard on a w-i-i-i-de zoom.

I hear so many people say the Sigma 10-20 or comparable lenses (Canon 10-22 etc) are great for landscapes. I disagree. They're great for architecture (especially interiors). But when you shoot landscapes with a lens that wide it's difficult to avoid producing results which are just clichéd. You have so much foreground and so much depth of field that you have to look for a contrived composition with something - anything - in the foreground just to fill up the space. I know it's the kind of thing that camera club judges like, but really, it gets pretty boring after a time.

Just my £0.02.
 
StewartR said:
Well said.

Except that I'd add this: don't go too overboard on a w-i-i-i-de zoom.

I hear so many people say the Sigma 10-20 or comparable lenses (Canon 10-22 etc) are great for landscapes. I disagree. They're great for architecture (especially interiors). But when you shoot landscapes with a lens that wide it's difficult to avoid producing results which are just clichéd. You have so much foreground and so much depth of field that you have to look for a contrived composition with something - anything - in the foreground just to fill up the space. I know it's the kind of thing that camera club judges like, but really, it gets pretty boring after a time.

Just my £0.02.
Click to expand...

I'm starting to come round to this way of thinking myself.

Stuart, in your opinion, what is an ideal local length/range for landscape and some city stuff on a crop sensor? I have just managed to pick up a Tamron 17-50 2.8 and am now beginning to think this will be fine for the job. (sorry for the Hijack)
 
HoppyUK said:
With respect mate, do you want to shoot landscapes, or buy a new camera? If it's the former, then get a wide zoom (Sigma's good but Nikon for preference), shoot at moderate apertures like f/5.8-8 for optimum sharpness, and use the hood. Get a tripod. Use a polarising filter. Work on panorama technique. With moving water, play with long shutter speeds (ND filter?). Work on your post-processing skills.

Don't need a new camera for any of that and frankly, lovely camera though the D90 is, you'll not notice any difference whereas, with the things suggested above, you will ;)

Good luck,

Richard.
Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. :)

In answer to your question I want to buy a new camera (being the D90 as it was my first choice but for other reasons at the time I went for the D60) and shoot landscapes.

I`ll quickly explain my "plan".

One of my nephews is a keen photographer and has been wanting a DSLR for a while now. So I`ve offered to sell him the D60, for a fair price, and put that money towards getting the D90 and a good lens for landscape photography...

I`m getting the D90 whatever so my OP was asking for opinions on a good "landscape" lens.

Seems to make sense to me but then I suppose it would. :D

I do know about using grads and slower shutter speeds etc... I have a tripod (although could do with a better one) and used polarisers too and I know a little about PP although still got a lot to learn in this department for sure. I`ve been into photography kind of "off and on" for years now. Still got my old Fujics STX-1. :D

So bearing all that in mind what lens would you suggest?

:)
 
StewartR said:
Well said.

Except that I'd add this: don't go too overboard on a w-i-i-i-de zoom.

I hear so many people say the Sigma 10-20 or comparable lenses (Canon 10-22 etc) are great for landscapes. I disagree. They're great for architecture (especially interiors). But when you shoot landscapes with a lens that wide it's difficult to avoid producing results which are just clichéd. You have so much foreground and so much depth of field that you have to look for a contrived composition with something - anything - in the foreground just to fill up the space. I know it's the kind of thing that camera club judges like, but really, it gets pretty boring after a time.

Just my £0.02.
Click to expand...

Cheers for your £0.02 `s worth :D

I appreciate where your coming from but I have to say, it`s a type of landscape "shot" I quite like and have seen many, many shots like the one you describe done very effectively...

I`m still not 100% on a lens yet so we`ll see. :)
 
I've heard that polarisers aren't that good on really wide lenses - uneven saturation or something - saying that may be wrong of course.

Caithness is rather away from everywhere isn't it.. Just checked and it's nearly a 3 hour drive to Beauly (Ffordes). Isn't there anywhere closer that sells the lenses you are interested in?
 
Gramayr said:
I've heard that polarisers aren't that good on really wide lenses - uneven saturation or something - saying that may be wrong of course.

Caithness is rather away from everywhere isn't it.. Just checked and it's nearly a 3 hour drive to Beauly (Ffordes). Isn't there anywhere closer that sells the lenses you are interested in?
Click to expand...

Heard that about the polarisers too...

Caithness is rather far away indeed Gramayr :D

End of the country... can`t go any further... but I do love it too. :)

Inverness would be my nearest city which is about a 2hr drive, in fact more this time of year what with icy roads and traffic.

It`s not really possible for me to go down there atm anyway... :(

I reckon Ill just have to get one online.

Cheers. :)
 
tjc, if you're asking me, Nikon 12-24mm, because it's the best, and it's future-proofed to Nikon in a way that third party lenses will struggle to match.

Nikon lenses are 100% compatible with the clever image processing that Nikon is introducing to its top end SLRs, like CA control, vignetting correction etc. I'm not sure thrid party lenses like Sigma will work with this, which I see as a hugely significant development in improved image quality. Check it out on www.dpreview.com - I think it's illustrated in their D700/D3 reviews and this technology will surely filter down the range soon. It's already appearing in top end compacts like Panasonic Lumix.

I may be wrong about thrid party lenses not being compatible, as to be honest I can't find out how how Nikon does it but Canon has a similar system which works in conjunction with it's own DPP Raw post processing software, and that works (extremely well) because it knows which (exclusively Canon) lens was used and has a very sophisticated set of corrections already programmed in. In other words, what used to take a skilled operator ages in Photoshop to do a relatively second rate job, is done to a very high standard in one click by a relative novice :)

I hear the comments about ultra-wide landscapes sometimes being a bit of a cliche, but that's why I'd recommend a zoom. You don't always have to shoot at max wide!

Richard.

Edit: Polarisers. The thing about uneven coverage is true, in theory, depending on where you live in the world and the angle of the sun. But I use one on my Canon 10-22mm and even when it's noticeable, it doesn't bother me relative to the dramatic impovement in blue skies you get. It's a bit like the super-wide setting - you don't have to use it just because you've got it, but when you want it, there ain't no substitute.
 
HoppyUK said:
tjc, if you're asking me, Nikon 12-24mm, because it's the best, and it's future-proofed to Nikon in a way that third party lenses will struggle to match.

Nikon lenses are 100% compatible with the clever image processing that Nikon is introducing to its top end SLRs, like CA control, vignetting correction etc. I'm not sure thrid party lenses like Sigma will work with this, which I see as a hugely significant development in improved image quality. Check it out on www.dpreview.com - I think it's illustrated in their D700/D3 reviews and this technology will surely filter down the range soon. It's already appearing in top end compacts like Panasonic Lumix.

I may be wrong about thrid party lenses not being compatible, as to be honest I can't find out how how Nikon does it but Canon has a similar system which works in conjunction with it's own DPP Raw post processing software, and that works (extremely well) because it knows which (exclusively Canon) lens was used and has a very sophisticated set of corrections already programmed in. In other words, what used to take a skilled operator ages in Photoshop to do a relatively second rate job, is done to a very high standard in one click by a relative novice :)

I hear the comments about ultra-wide landscapes sometimes being a bit of a cliche, but that's why I'd recommend a zoom. You don't always have to shoot at max wide!

Richard.

Edit: Polarisers. The thing about uneven coverage is true, in theory, depending on where you live in the world and the angle of the sun. But I use one on my Canon 10-22mm and even when it's noticeable, it doesn't bother me relative to the dramatic impovement in blue skies you get. It's a bit like the super-wide setting - you don't have to use it just because you've got it, but when you want it, there ain't no substitute.
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Yes indeed... the Nikon 12-24mm does sound the business for sure... I`ve read nothing but good reviews of them but they are a tad hefty on the old pocket for me atm...

Sounds like some pretty amazing technology your talking about. Thanks for the link. :)

I am thinking 12-24mm but of the Tokina variety...

What do you think of those?

As far as a polariser is concerned I will get one. Like you say better to have than not I think. :)
 
tjc said:
I am thinking 12-24mm but of the Tokina variety...

What do you think of those?
Click to expand...

I dunno mate. No direct experience/knowledge other than to say that Tokina ain't top of the tree. But since you ask, I'll give you the benefit of my skewed logic ;)

I only buy camera brand lenses, unless there is no alternative. I have a Sigma 30mm f/1.4 - that's it - and six Canons. This is because lenses are very important, I like good ones, and I don't like to change them, whereas I seem to upgrade camera bodies every couple of years.

Even then, when buying a new lens I always get to test two identical ones side by side and pick the best. Having said that, I've always found this 'bad copy' thing to be a myth and I'd have been happy with any copy of any of the lenses I tested, including the Sigma.

So, bearing in mind my lens snob mind-set, I will just say that very short-focal length zooms are about as hard to make as they come and I bet that Tokina has some pretty smeary edges that I would not want to see in a beautiful landscape. Landscapes are the most quality-critical subjects IMO.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear so I will end by saying that a beautiful landscape will always be beautiful, regardless of the name around the lens ring :)

Richard.
 
HoppyUK said:
I dunno mate. No direct experience/knowledge other than to say that Tokina ain't top of the tree. But since you ask, I'll give you the benefit of my skewed logic ;)

I only buy camera brand lenses, unless there is no alternative. I have a Sigma 30mm f/1.4 - that's it - and six Canons. This is because lenses are very important, I like good ones, and I don't like to change them, whereas I seem to upgrade camera bodies every couple of years.

Even then, when buying a new lens I always get to test two identical ones side by side and pick the best. Having said that, I've always found this 'bad copy' thing to be a myth and I'd have been happy with any copy of any of the lenses I tested, including the Sigma.

So, bearing in mind my lens snob mind-set, I will just say that very short-focal length zooms are about as hard to make as they come and I bet that Tokina has some pretty smeary edges that I would not want to see in a beautiful landscape. Landscapes are the most quality-critical subjects IMO.

Sorry if that's not what you want to hear so I will end by saying that a beautiful landscape will always be beautiful, regardless of the name around the lens ring :)

Richard.
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I respect your opinion on the brand lens thing. I know a lot of people that said to go for Nikon if at all possible but for me atm it`s just not. :(

I have np`s with your honest approach on the Tokina thing too... say what you think... I like that.

But that`s more the kind of price range I could go for atm and to be honest the Tokina or Sigma would be the best lens I`ll have had anyway so I`ll press on with one of those for now I think...

Still undecided though.

We`ll see if santa brings some nice blank cheques but prob got more chance of winning the lotto... :D

Thanks Hoppy. :)
 
tjc said:
Thanks Hoppy. :)
Click to expand...

You're welcome :)

I will close by saying that I am being very picky here and whatever brand you chose, a 12-24mm lens is a fantastically creative tool. You'll love it :clap:

Richard.
 
HoppyUK said:
You're welcome :)

I will close by saying that I am being very picky here and whatever brand you chose, a 12-24mm lens is a fantastically creative tool. You'll love it :clap:

Richard.
Click to expand...

Cheers again Hoppy, I enjoyed your insight. :)
 
The 12-24mm is sent for.

:D

At last...

Only one thing to check now.

The filter size is 77mm so I`ll need to get a 77mm adapter ring, a holder and a grad(s).

What Cokin series fits 77mm?

Any suggestions would be most welcome.



Then I`ll get out of your hair... :D

:)


Very many thanks again to all who have contributed with help and advice in my lens quest.

Cheers and Happy Chrimbo to you all. :thumbs:
 
Personally I think I'd feel a little frustrated going out to do landscape and general work with just a wide angle zoom.

If you want a top quality wide angle do you still have enough money to buy a wide to short telephoto general lens? If you don't I'd tend to buy say the Nikon 16-85 (as this offers a pretty good wide option with a nice focal length for portraits and cropping landscapes) and get a wide prime lens or zoom at a later date when it's affordable.

Looks like you've made up your mind though
 
chivers67 said:
Personally I think I'd feel a little frustrated going out to do landscape and general work with just a wide angle zoom.

If you want a top quality wide angle do you still have enough money to buy a wide to short telephoto general lens? If you don't I'd tend to buy say the Nikon 16-85 (as this offers a pretty good wide option with a nice focal length for portraits and cropping landscapes) and get a wide prime lens or zoom at a later date when it's affordable.

Looks like you've made up your mind though
Click to expand...

Not only have I made my mind up but the 12-24mm is sent for.

:D

I considered the option of something like a 16-85mm for the reasons you state but decided on a wide angle as atm landscape is my thing...

I don`t do portrait (people) and have talked to quite a few landscape toggers that say something like the 12-24mm is good for landscape and their photos would certainly suggest that this is correct.

Anyway my decision, good or bad in other peoples eyes, is made and as long as the lens is in good working order and is a good copy I`m chuffed for now. :)

Thanks for your input chivers67. :)
 
tjc said:
The filter size is 77mm so I`ll need to get a 77mm adapter ring, a holder and a grad(s).

What Cokin series fits 77mm?

Any suggestions would be most welcome.
Click to expand...

Just be careful the adaptor is big enough not to get itself included in the photo when you're at max wide on the zoom. I know some people have trouble with even regular screw-in filters on super-wides, and need to go for the slim-line mounts to avoid vignetting ;)

Richard.

PS Use a lens hood. These lenses take in so much bright sky that flare is often a problem.
 
HoppyUK said:
Just be careful the adaptor is big enough not to get itself included in the photo when you're at max wide on the zoom. I know some people have trouble with even regular screw-in filters on super-wides, and need to go for the slim-line mounts to avoid vignetting ;)

Richard.

PS Use a lens hood. These lenses take in so much bright sky that flare is often a problem.
Click to expand...

I`ve been hearing about the vignetting too so I`ll keep my eye out for a slim one. :)

I`ll be giving the lens hood a go for sure.

:thumbs:
 
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