Lencarta Smartflash vs Elemental Genesis

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I was looking at getting a small kit that wouldneed to be packed away regualrly, maybe I could take to one or two peoples homes. Elemental have the Genesis 250 Mk1 flash heads and Lencarta the Smartflash - I was looking at 3 heads with one or two softboxes.

Any opinions on these two systems? I've searched here but although there are recommendations to go to either manufactuer, not much feedback. The Genesis heads also are passivley cooled, no fan, the Mk2 versions added a fan. That to me indicates a redesign or do we only think this would be an issue with intense work (very unlikely).
 
I have heard of several problems with the Genesis 250 heads and them going bang etc.. Or just failing, having looked at the Lencarta it is an excellent choice. Infact there is a post similar to yours, so have a look though the talk lighting section of TP. The build quality is excellent and at a very good price too..
I would personally avoid things like the Interfit kits sold in jessops, they are pretty poor...
 
the lencarta smartflash is probably the best lighting system for beginners on a budget :thumbs:

:agree:

Ive got the 3 head setup, 2 softboxes, umbrella and background kit and its very good quality.

Stands feel very solid and sturdy
Flash Heads are fan cooled so wont overheat (not too loud either)
Softboxes feel very well made
Recycle time of the flash heads is very very quick

Am very happy with the quality and performance of the kit
 
Thanks for the responses so far...shame Lencarta haven't got a special deal like Elemental! :) I wish I wish for a TP member discount code... :)
 
I have heard of several problems with the Genesis 250 heads and them going bang etc..
not heard that, but they do have an 18 month warranty in any event. It's a tough call between the 2 in a recent test the genesis produced the same guide number as the smartflash - it will come down to what you can get for your money! I got fed up trying to decide so bought some cheap ebay units, only owes me £190 for a 3 head set so if I dont use them much its no big deal.

If I do upgrade I can keep the cheap guns as background or hair lights........
 
not heard that, but they do have an 18 month warranty in any event. It's a tough call between the 2 in a recent test the genesis produced the same guide number as the smartflash - it will come down to what you can get for your money! I got fed up trying to decide so bought some cheap ebay units, only owes me £190 for a 3 head set so if I dont use them much its no big deal.

If I do upgrade I can keep the cheap guns as background or hair lights........

I have seen two reports of problems.. I remember the review on the ebay units, glad they worked out.. Very good value, even better if they prove to have a long life..
 
Thanks TG, i did see it, but was after the 3 light set up pref with warranty but appreciated. I was a bit concerned re courier cost as i have little experience of ordering one. see if the Op can give some idea.
 
I was a bit concerned re courier cost as i have little experience of ordering one

Take a look on the parcel force site, they give their prices up to certain amounts of kilos, i have the 2 head kit and at a guess i reckon it wouldn't cost more than £15 for signed delivery, Garry Edwards may be able to give you the actual weight :)
 
the older version of the genesis may have had issues because it was not fan cooled. The newer version (mk2) is fan cooled, so I'd expect it not to have any similar overheating issues.
 
Yep, that was my thinking, sadly they are the ones being sold off cheaper... sure you would have to be going some to get it to overheat but the fan cooloed would be better I'd guess (and it is a guess! :) )
 
I have heard of several problems with the Genesis 250 heads and them going bang etc.. Or just failing, having looked at the Lencarta it is an excellent choice. Infact there is a post similar to yours, so have a look though the talk lighting section of TP. The build quality is excellent and at a very good price too..
I would personally avoid things like the Interfit kits sold in jessops, they are pretty poor...

I would like to apologise in advance for the following reply. Whilst I do not get involved in forums as a matter of policy, statements like the above require dealing with properly. I would welcome the opportunity to see the evidence of the above should the author wish to get in touch.

Firstly, you will not find a bad review of our lights anywhere on the internet, save for the unnecessary smears made by representatives of Lencarta. For their troubles they have received letters from our solicitors which will ultimately result in legal action should this behaviour continue.

There have not been reports of our lights going "bang" unless the people purchasing them have so much money that they felt the need not to inform us of this issue. Warranties exist for a reason and we have a fantastic reputation for customer service, particularly in the light of complaints or issues, which are rare. Our M Series 300Ws sold over 6000 units, with a total return of 9, in 3 years. To date, we have only had a single 600Ws head returned, and zero 1000Ws heads.

The MK1 Genesis was upgraded after a 5 star comparison review in Digital Photo Magazine. Since we have the capability and engineering skills to change components and lights, it seemed churlish not to re-engineer the lights to a higher spec after comments made by the magazine. 18 months ago, in another comparison review we were criticised for the handle of our M Series, but rather than airing our grievance here, as Lencarta did (threads now removed due to libellous content), we redesigned the rear panel and handle. The Genesis MKII are now the same specification as our original flagship range, the M Series, save for the power outputs and mounting brackets, so you've got our previous top end professional range competing against everyone else' budget range. The M Series vs Smartflash - hardly comparative. Fan cooled, available in two power outputs (250Ws and 400Ws) and faster than the Lencarta Elite Pro - their flagship range.

I would also like to address a comment made recently about Lencarta's customer service capabilities versus our own on another thread in this forum:

1: We don't miss phone calls, or use a voicemail service during office hours. I particularly enjoy the voicemail at Lencarta; "Sometimes it is not possible for me to answer the phone, for example if I am driving my car, or in the studio"... Very professional. We've recently added another two lines to our incoming system, to enable us to deal with a greater volume of calls.

2: We have five full time staff on site (and two part time), four of which are working commercial photographers. They are here to give real time practical advice on studio photography. Lencarta has no staff, except Mr. Edwards of course, who claims he doesn't actually work for them (based purely on several posts on this site where he denies any official affiliation).

3: We have a full engineering team seconded to us directly from UCMK to deal with servicing and repairs. Since our engineering team designs the electronics systems, we don't have to rely on third party manufacturers to repair or service our products.

4: We have a warehouse on site at our Bedfordshire complex. Lencarta's products are handled off site (based on several posts where Mr. Edwards has "telephoned the warehouse manager to complain about products not being dispatched") probably by a third party pick and pack facility.

5: We don't hijack forum threads who are asking about other products. In fact, we don't, as a matter of policy, involve ourselves in forums at all. Your opinion of our lights is entirely down to you, though we do not accept the opinions of pro-Lencarta lobbyists who declare fictional statements about our products without ever having handled them. We have a full range of Lencarta's products on site, should you wish to do comparisons. I can assure you, we immensely enjoy showing off their products.

6: We have a showroom and commercial studio in our offices. No appointment is necessary (unlike at Lencarta's "studio"). Just turn up, any time, from Monday to Saturday between 9.30am and 5pm.

Quite frankly we are bored of comparisons with Lencarta. Whilst historically we have provided a number of OEM products to the UK market, we have taken great pains (and cost) to begin our own R&D and engineering programs (widely publicised in the press), meaning that most (not all - we still have a number of OEM products, which we are more than happy to admit to) of the products you buy from us, are ours, unlike Lencarta products (however much they say otherwise) which are made by Jinbei Goldenshell, a reputable manufacturer in China. Yes, we've heard the whole "we use their cases and PCBs, back panel and front end, but really we insist on changing the flash tube (which is user changeable anyway) and use japanese capacitors" arguments - they are a work of fiction that JK Rowling would be proud of - "Harry Potter and the pre-existing components". A quick email to Jinbei will reveal that they use these components anyway.

We can remould a casing for around $2000, so it is hardly expensive. CAD designs and re-tooling for rear panels is significantly more expensive, but surely if they've got the money to make Jinbei re-tool for custom capacitors with different electronic values (in order to improve performance - otherwise why bother?) which would require an entire electronic redesign, again, very expensive, why not change something as simple and obviously identifiable as the casing? I suggest a little "Occam's Razer" ought to be applied here - "If it looks like a Jinbei product, and the specifications are the same..."

For those of you that are interested, Jinbei list a number of markets which are available to distributors here: http://www.goldenshell.com.cn/en/marketing.asp

The UK is missing, of course, because Lencarta have that particular exclusivity, unless someone can point us to another UK distributor of Jinbei products.

The only difference between Jinbei and Lencarta is that Jinbei don't feel the need to pretend their products are different, or to deceive their customers into thinking otherwise. The new Lencarta continuous lights, for example, are identical to lights we discontinued 3 years ago, and bear a striking resemblance to our previous G Series...

Whilst I do not wish to be personal, in the interests of full disclosure, we should really address the impartiality of Mr. Edwards. Mr. Edwards alludes to be an objective provider of information on studio lighting, and on that subject I have no doubt he is an authority, but in reality he is a 3% shareholder of Blue Dimension International Limited, the parent company that owns the "brand" Lencarta. The PDF proof downloaded from companies house is available for all to see, as is the annual return for Lencarta, which entirely refutes their financial capability to design their own products.

If you look online you'll find that we post all of our trade reviews, irrespective of the outcome directly on our website for everyone to read. Lencarta seem to have missed a couple of reviews in the last year where they were found wanting, compared to our products. Also, it is entirely ridiculous that Mr. Edwards has reviewed the products himself on the Lencarta website! How credible can such an endorsement be from a man who earns money from the sale of the products?

Ironically Mr. Edwards has, in the past year, on more than one occasion, suggested that the reviews of our brand have been corrupt, or in some way "interfered" with, and yet on both occasions Mr. Edwards has immediately written to the editors (emails posted willingly on this forum) and refuted the outcome, and, most recently, gone on to "disprove" the outcome of a review by shooting a tin spill kill and half of a plastic case, whilst suggesting that representatives of Bauer Media are corrupt in their review process. Lencarta consistently advertise in Bauer publications. We have NEVER advertised in their magazines. It would be in Bauer Media's best interest to keep their advertisers happy, which means our products would have to have performed significantly better to achieve the Gold Award and Best Buy Awards.

We, on the other hand, merely hand the products over and let them get on with it. Our products are excellent, therefore the reviews are excellent. Where we have had criticism, we have overcome it with positive engineering.

Unlike Lencarta, we are glad that they exist in the market place. Without choice the market place would lose innovation. Without comparisons we would lose the opportunity to excel. Whilst we are miles shy of achieving a status like that of Bowens, Elinchrom, Broncolor etc, we are growing rapidly and producing fine products for an expanding market.

You are all more than welcome to visit our facilities and see for yourself. That includes the author of the above quote - we would welcome the opportunity to discuss any issues you may have with our product line. I would even welcome representatives of Lencarta, should they wish to see their own products performing against ours. We make excellent coffee and are gracious hosts.

Daniel Lenihan
CEO
The Elemental Group
 
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Firstly I meant not to smear you or your product, I also find it a bit heavy handed.

There is a thread in the lighting section of this forum where a product went faulty shortly after purchase.. The poster switched to another supplier. There is atleast one other that I remember reading...

unlike some I recommend something because I have either had a hands on or used a brand, usually impartial where I have experience witha number of products from different manufacturers.

Also I do not work for or represent Lencarta, neither would I ever claim to do so, I can only speak from the experiences I have had while looking to purchase lights, and accept that I could have chosen my words differently.

Also if you are going to have a go at me and what I said fine, just don't levy the rest of your post at me at the same time.

Edit to add:

In the English language some words are used, that mean something else, it is just that in some cases slang or accent etc, contribute in the way something is said or written.. Not always a stement of fact..
 
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Hi Simon,

Apologies if you feel I was being heavy handed - I wished merely to address a couple of comments that have been made in recent weeks. It was not "aimed" at you at all. I merely sought the opportunity to "kill several birds with one stone" so-to-speak.

I cannot guarantee that we have never had faulty lights, as electronics are always going to prove problematic at some stage. I CAN guarantee, however, that the issue was dealt with immediately and satisfactorily. I have not seen the other thread, and so cannot comment on it directly.
 
I can vouch for the Elemental kit and the support and advice that i have received from Danny with all my purchases.

Great kit that was always packed up and carried around everywhere, the only problem i ever had was that the shoulder strap broke on one of my bags (possibly because it was fully loaded with all my other gear)

But great kit and works very well..!
 
It does kind of seem that your post reads as one long attack on myself and Lencarta, I would appreciate you editing this to two seperate parts. As it does seem to be directed at myself.

Bit of a shock to read..

I have heard fantastic things about your customer service, on the other hand I am not aware of your presence on photography forums where things can be duscussed etc.
 
I can absolutely assure you that it is not an attack on you in any way, merely a clarification of two previous statements that have been made by you recently. The majority of the reply seeks only to clarify the differences between ourselves and Lencarta.

We don't get involved in forums precisely because "tone of voice" and other inflections are impossible to convey through written communication. We have seen many forums threads where our products are discussed though.
 
There is a thread in the lighting section of this forum where a product went faulty shortly after purchase.. The poster switched to another supplier.

I'd like to point out that we have never been asked to refund a product for a customer , so if they did, as you say, switch to another supplier, they didn't return their product to us. We provide a full money back guarantee on all of our products.
 
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Well I was the original poster asking questions about the two products and was quite simply seeking opinions. There were not many opinions voiced, but generally they seemed to point in the direction of Lencarta. This name does seem to be promoted to a greater degree in this forum. i am however quite reassured that Elemental have felt the need to leap to their defence and in fact given quite a lengthy endoresement of their own product. it is a bit sad though when companies directly attack each other especially in this particualrly thread where neither Lenarta or Garry Edwards have said a word! :) Now you have hit the forum Danny maybe you or someone can chip in from time to time and support your product and help make it more attractive to buyers. As a keen enthusiast photographer i was simply trying to decide if there were any clear advantages over either system... The Genesis 1's looked tempting at the keen prices, but now it seems the 2's would be a better bet... and they are up against the Smartflash from Lencarta... decisons, decisions :)

I did think the post was a bit heavy, but it's nice to know the companies are looking in...
 
Elemental,

As a user of Studio lighting and having spent more than £1500 on it over the past year I would say that I have looked at numerous products from several providers. I did attend a training day at Garry Edwards studio and he mentioned several brands without rubbishing any of them. I have seen numerous threads that Garry has commented on and he does not slag off other brands there either. Your post here is the first post I have seen by a lighting supplier that specifically has a go at any other supplier.

I certainly don't have any axe to grind as I am a user not a provider but I had the choice and at this very moment in time there is a very large box in my hall with my last order from Lencarta in it which I am about to go and open.

I would suggest that if you join the forum and post useful and informative information and suggestions as Garry does then your input would be taken more seriously. I don't really care if Garry has a connection with Lencarta, even on his training day he was demonstrating items from other suppliers.

You really come over as rather negative.
 
I fully understand. If you look, historically there are many, many threads where Lencarta have attacked our products, practices and endorsments, and we have kept quiet about it. That I have broken my silence today is tantamount only to the growing frustration that we feel seeing false statements made about our products.

I have no wish to get into a huge tit-for-tat argument with Mr. Edwards, or Lencarta, and have tried previously to get in touch with both to stem these situations as they occur. The parent company has only postal contact available, and I have never actually managed to get through to Mr. Edwards on the phone number.

The problem with historical occurences is that Mr. Edwards has lied about the branding of Lencarta's products, and his association with them in order to promote Lencarta products on threads where the OP has specifically asked a question about our products. My statement today consists of facts and not embellishments. We won't be hearing from Lencarta's lawyers about this, because law suits are public record and there is nothing in my statement that they can refute legally. Lencarta, on the other hand, HAVE heard from our lawyers in very recent weeks, and thus are treading a very fine line. I despise wasting money on lawyers, so decisions like this are not rash and unwarranted.

I have not, in any aspect of this business, condemned or ridiculed the Lencarta product range, nor would I seek to do so. You'll see above that I describe their suppliers as "reputable".

This is the first time I have ever posted on this forum in any official capacity. Lencarta have been making libellous comments about our products and services for many years, without reprisal. I think we have the right to respond. I have screen prints of every single incident in the past where our credibility and integrity has been questioned (the threads have been deleted due to the libellous content in them - you are welcome to check this with the moderators and site owners). I would be delighted to email them to you, should you wish to see why I felt the need to respond as I have today.

I will not involve myself further in forum activity. The forum is a place for customers and users to discuss products and techniques, not for manufacturers to air their grievances (hence why I began my statement with "apologies").

I am always available on the telephone if you have something to discuss.
 
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Just FWIW.... I've not shot with different models of lights, just an amateur experimenting, but I have and am pleased with Elemental's lights, having chosen between them and Lencarta's lights. Liked them enough that I went back to Elemental to get some more kit recently, in fact.

Not having had any gear break I can only talk about some of their customer service but what I've experienced was very good. I picked up the gear directly from them (I'm local) and they were very helpful in discussing options, including offering a quick trip round their on-site studio to see it in action if I needed it. I queried a possible change to the pack makeup and got a non-standard combination with zero issues.

I can't say they're better than others because I've never used others to compare, but unless a large bang for buck difference opened up then I'd have zero hesitation in going back to Elemental in future. Gear seems good, prices ditto, communication is quick and easy, staff are friendly and helpful. No links to them, just a happy customer :-)
 
I probably shouldn't dignify Elemental's posts with a reply, and I'm certainly not going to address all of the points that he felt constrained to make.

Regular readers of this and other forums will know that I frequently recommend other manufacturers, not just Lencarta - there are, for example, some excellent products, such as the Elinchrom 2400 j generator packs that I recommend wholeheartedly whenever people need this kind of power. I also recommend Bron, Profoto and Bowens. I also give lighting advice whenever I feel that I have something to offer, regardless of whether or not this might lead to a sale for Lencarta.

As far as I know, none of my posts have been deleted because of 'libellous content', although of course I could be wrong about that as I'm not sufficiently anal to check whether they have or not:)

As for Lencarta products being the same as the Jinbei ones, that's just a lie mistake by Elemental. I've said this before and I'll say it again, check with Jinbei.

1: We don't miss phone calls, or use a voicemail service during office hours. I particularly enjoy the voicemail at Lencarta; "Sometimes it is not possible for me to answer the phone, for example if I am driving my car, or in the studio"... Very professional. We've recently added another two lines to our incoming system, to enable us to deal with a greater volume of calls.
Often, people want to speak with me personally because they know that I'm a real commercial photographer and that I have real expertise on studio lighting. There's only one of me, and I make no apology for sometimes being involved in a shoot or for obeying the law when driving my car.

As for having a 3% shareholding in Blue Dimensions, I believe that that is the true part of Elemental's post. But I didn't ask for it and I have never drawn a penny in dividends.

As for the warehousing being elsewhere, that's because Lencarta is too big, and has too much stock, for the warehousing to be done in house.

As for the claims about the quality, design etc of products sold under the Elemental name, I have no comment simply because I believe that there is room for all sorts of people in business and, regardless of any private opinions that I may or may not hold about individuals, I have nothing bad to say about Elemental. That is one of the reasons why I do NOT make comments about their products, on forums or elsewhere. People tell me lots of stories, but I keep them to myself.
Firstly, you will not find a bad review of our lights anywhere on the internet, save for the unnecessary smears made by representatives of Lencarta. For their troubles they have received letters from our solicitors which will ultimately result in legal action should this behaviour continue.
Lencarta, on the other hand, HAVE heard from our lawyers in very recent weeks, and thus are treading a very fine line. I despise wasting money on lawyers, so decisions like this are not rash and unwarranted.
Now, unless Mr Lenihan has instructed solicitors who are so incompetent that they have forgotten to post these letters, these statements are lies mistaken:)
Lencarta has no staff, except Mr. Edwards of course, who claims he doesn't actually work for them (based purely on several posts on this site where he denies any official affiliation).
The number of staff employed has no bearing on anything, but in case it matters to anyone reading this, Lencarta has far more staff than the total employed at Elemental's single site.

The PDF proof downloaded from companies house is available for all to see, as is the annual return for Lencarta, which entirely refutes their financial capability to design their own products.
Nonsense. Lencarta trades with its own money, it has no borrowings of any kind and has ample R&D resources. In fact, two of the 'non existant' senior staff members are in fact working with a team of Lencarta's own 'non existant' engineers as I write.

Mr Lenihan has hijacked this thread rather than start a new one (no doubt he has his reasons) and I have answered it, but this is my last word on the subject. Readers will have to believe whatever they wish.

And, finally, I did not offer advice on this thread simply because I don't want to be seen to be comparing Lencarta with Elemental - I leave that to customers. I think it must be a very long time indeed since I have contributed to a thread in which the word 'Elemental' appears before any answer of mine, simply because I don't do the things that Mr. Lenihan accuses me of.
 
Blimey, I only started the thread to compare the companies products, not the companies and individuals within...I think I will buy Bowens now! :) What are they like anyone?! :)

I can see there is obviously an underlying issue I have inadvertantly started here...
 
Allow me reply to this rather unnecessary wordy bunfight, and correct a few untruths.

Whilst I do not get involved in forums as a matter of policy
Apart from multiple banned accounts which we have linked to you, starting with your very first which was on here trying to operate commercially.

but rather than airing our grievance here, as Lencarta did (threads now removed due to libellous content)
Incorrect, as explicitly stated by us in emails. More than once. They were removed as a goodwill gesture.

except Mr. Edwards of course, who claims he doesn't actually work for them (based purely on several posts on this site where he denies any official affiliation).
Take a look at his signature, and you'll see that your 'facts' are out of date.

We don't hijack forum threads who are asking about other products.
Except this one of course.
And this one
And this one

In fact, we don't, as a matter of policy, involve ourselves in forums at all.
See point one.

Your opinion of our lights is entirely down to you
Indeed it is, and to simply launch an attack on a competitor (again) because of this makes you look silly.

Quite frankly we are bored of comparisons with Lencarta.
As we are with your opinions of Garry Edwards and Lencarta. You sound like a point-scoring schoolboy

Where we have had criticism, we have overcome it with positive engineering.
And very long winded claims.
And threats of legal action.
And more wordy and long winded claims.

For the record. We did not remove any threads or posts due to any legal requests. Infact, despite your very lengthy emails to us, threatening the world falling down around everyone's heads if we didn't comply with your wishes, we have still yet to receive any official correspondence from your appointed legal team. Correspondence which you claim has already been sent many times. Maybe you should choose a better solicitor?

Infact, this thread and your posts were almost removed from here because of the potentially libellous statements you have made. The only reason it is still here is because those libelled have given us permission to leave it here.

Your words and actions, both historically, privately and in this thread gives me a very negative impression.
Therefore as an amateur photographer, I will never buy an Elemental Lighting product, based on your behaviour.

And as Admin of this forum, I'm closing this thread and explicitly stating that you are to refrain from posting on our forum again. If you have a problem with any posts on Talk Photography, and / or if you believe you have a legal right to reply to any posts on this website, then please put this in writing to our registered address at :

Slack Media Ltd, 12 Romney Place, Maidstone, Kent, ME15 6LE. We will pass any correspondence directly to our already-appointed specialist media lawyers and will happily assist you in any manner as far as our legal obligations require us.

Email correspondence from yourself or Elemental will not be entered into. Nor will we enter into any correspondence sent to any other address than our registered office above.
 
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