Lencarta Safari Li-on or Elinchrom Quadra Ranger RX

richardhurst

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I've not started this thread to create a war or an argument but I'm in the position to purchase either set very shortly and wanted some advice. I will be mainly using it for outdoor use and some indoor use for portrait stuff. Don't need it for freezing action or anything like that. Just to be used with a BD or softbox. Would like to get that darken'd picture effect so not sure if that is called over powering the sun. Can I have some advice from people that have actually used the equipment please
 
I've not started this thread to create a war or an argument but I'm in the position to purchase either set very shortly and wanted some advice. I will be mainly using it for outdoor use and some indoor use for portrait stuff. Don't need it for freezing action or anything like that. Just to be used with a BD or softbox. Would like to get that darken'd picture effect so not sure if that is called over powering the sun. Can I have some advice from people that have actually used the equipment please

I'm sure you've already done a forum search Richard, but just in case you haven't, there are already several threads discussing portable battery powered lighting, some compare both models:-

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=408121&highlight=safari+li-on
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=363334&highlight=safari+li-on
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=408997&highlight=safari+li-on
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=372563&highlight=safari+li-on

...and many more.

The impression I get is that the Lencarta Li-on comes out on top, particularly for value for money and especially if freezing motion isn't your primary concern, but I might be wrong and I'm sure the people who actually use these things will jump in with some great information.

I don't have either, so just ignore me if this post is useless to you :D

Darren
 
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I've used both, if you want a no frills battery flash, then the Lencarta is better value. However the Quadra has many more features, which when I was using them, was worth the extra cost.

Personally if I were looking in that price range I'd be looking at the Strobeam line up too.
 
I've used both, if you want a no frills battery flash, then the Lencarta is better value. However the Quadra has many more features, which when I was using them, was worth the extra cost.

Personally if I were looking in that price range I'd be looking at the Strobeam line up too.

Well thats just totally confused me now :)
 
I've used most of the brands on the market.

If you want to choose one of those two then IMO the Lencarta is easily the winner unless you need short duration or remote power setting. The Quadra beats the Lencarta on those 2 categories and IMO no others.

If you want to widen your search then depending on your requirements there may be other options that are better for you.
 
I've used most of the brands on the market.

If you want to choose one of those two then IMO the Lencarta is easily the winner unless you need short duration or remote power setting. The Quadra beats the Lencarta on those 2 categories and IMO no others.

If you want to widen your search then depending on your requirements there may be other options that are better for you.

have you had any experience of the 500W Strobeam set up at all?
 
Well thats just totally confused me now :)

LOL :)

If you want to beat daylight, particularly bright sun, then you need power. Far more than in the studio. 400Ws is a good minimum yardstick, if you want to be able to use bigger modifiers at workable distances, but basically you can't have too much. Unless you wait until the sun goes down a bit - that makes a huge difference.

Lencarta Li-on's advantage is power, value, and good battery capacity. Quadra is a really nice unit, especially with the new lithium pack, but more expensive and less powerful.

The difference in brightness is about half a stop like for like in terms of flash duration (Quadra S-head) and you need to be aware that both manufacturers are a bit economical with the truth on this. The faster Quadra A-head is about half a stop less bright than the S-head (I measured 0.6 stops) and that puts it much closer to the comparison figures for the Li-on given on the Lencarta site.

Have you considered using a battery power pack with regular studio heads? Check out Innovatronix XT-SE and Mini.

Edit: there's another thread about Strobeams, but bottom line is, if you want power then IGBT flashes don't appear to make the same brightness as conventional heads, Ws for Ws.
 
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LOL :)

If you want to beat daylight, particularly bright sun, then you need power. Far more than in the studio. 400Ws is a good minimum yardstick, if you want to be able to use bigger modifiers at workable distances, but basically you can't have too much. Unless you wait until the sun goes down a bit - that makes a huge difference.

Lencarta Li-on's advantage is power, value, and good battery capacity. Quadra is a really nice unit, especially with the new lithium pack, but more expensive and less powerful.

The difference in brightness is about half a stop like for like in terms of flash duration (Quadra S-head) and you need to be aware that both manufacturers are a bit economical with the truth on this. The faster Quadra A-head is about half a stop less bright than the S-head (I measured 0.6 stops) and that puts it much closer to the comparison figures for the Li-on given on the Lencarta site.

Have you considered using a battery power pack with regular studio heads? Check out Innovatronix XT-SE and Mini.

Edit: there's another thread about Strobeams, but bottom line is, if you want power then IGBT flashes don't appear to make the same brightness as conventional heads, Ws for Ws.

Whoosh straight over my head, maybe I'll just stick to landscape photography or take up fishing :)
 
Whoosh straight over my head, maybe I'll just stick to landscape photography or take up fishing :)

Haha! How about this then.

Li-on - power, value.
Quadra - half a stop less power, but better made and more features, for a lot more money.
 
have you had any experience of the 500W Strobeam set up at all?

Yes. Quite a lot actually ;)

I've used the EID500 for a couple of years. I did the launch of the G5 for Strobeam and now do pre sales support for them.

Edit: there's another thread about Strobeams, but bottom line is, if you want power then IGBT flashes don't appear to make the same brightness as conventional heads, Ws for Ws.

I'd recommend reading the other thread too.

I've mentioned before that using w/s to asses the output of lights is about as useful as using MPG to asses the power of a car - it's a guideline when everybody is using similar tech but when some lights are using newer technology it's not entirely helpful. Just like talking about a 60 watt lightbulb is fine when everyone is using tungsten filament. But once CFL and LEDs get into the mix it's not useful.

Far better to look at the actual output under similar conditions. I've linked to this before http://www.philharbordphotography.co.uk/strobeam.html but it bears out Richard's (and my) view that an IGBT light of a given w/s will generally deliver less power than a conventional technology light of the same w/s. The guide numbers tell the true story.
 
Yes. Quite a lot actually ;)

I've used the EID500 for a couple of years. I did the launch of the G5 for Strobeam and now do pre sales support for them.



I'd recommend reading the other thread too.

I've mentioned before that using w/s to asses the output of lights is about as useful as using MPG to asses the power of a car - it's a guideline when everybody is using similar tech but when some lights are using newer technology it's not entirely helpful. Just like talking about a 60 watt lightbulb is fine when everyone is using tungsten filament. But once CFL and LEDs get into the mix it's not useful.

Far better to look at the actual output under similar conditions. I've linked to this before http://www.philharbordphotography.co.uk/strobeam.html but it bears out Richard's (and my) view that an IGBT light of a given w/s will generally deliver less power than a conventional technology light of the same w/s. The guide numbers tell the true story.

That's a good link from Jonathan, but guide numbers are no more useful than Ws IMHO. What JR says about Ws is perfectly valid, but the big variable with GNs is the reflector used, and it makes a big difference!

None of this helps us consumers navigate the minefield though :( What we need is a standard testing procedure that all manufacturers use, but I see no prospect of that. And let's not get started on t.5 times :lol:
 
You're right of course.

It's helpful that on that site a well informed reviewer has tested both a traditional head and a new tech head using the same method. I think under those circumstances you can use GN to compare. Also he handily compares the manufacturer stated GN and his tested GN. Different methods are going to give different results but I think you can piece it together. What we need is an equivalent to the Wilhelm institute for lights. It doesn't really matter what the metric is - just that the test is standard. We can all dream, right?

For me it's interesting that in a large power band the t.5 time for an IGBT is the same as a t.1 - which I guess is obvious when you think about it.

Anyway, this isn't helping the OP pick a light ;)
 
Anyway, this isn't helping the OP pick a light ;)

Just totally confusing me with GN and T whatever's :) I think the Lencarta's are looking the most likely, I just like the look and design of the Quadra's. Intially I think I'd start with a one head set up and a beauty dish. What bugs me is I can sell my pocket wizards to help fund a Quadra but if i sell them and then go for lencarta I'm spending again. Portrait stuff is something I really want to try and I've got loads of eastern european girls that temp for me that have all offered to model free of charge!. Arrrrrrrrrrrgggggh too much to think about. I'm going to just go take pictures of road signs :-)
 
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Just totally confusing me with GN and T whatever's :) I think the Lencarta's are looking the most likely, I just like the look and design of the Quadra's. Intially I think I'd start with a one head set up and a beauty dish. What bugs me is I can sell my pocket wizards to help fund a Quadra but if i sell them and then go for lencarta I'm spending again. Portrait stuff is something I really want to try and I've got loads of eastern european girls that temp for me that have all offered to model free of charge!. Arrrrrrrrrrrgggggh too much to think about. I'm going to just go take pictures of road signs :-)

Make up your mind. Is it going to be fishing, road signs or eastern european girls?

It's a tricky decison though. You have my sympathy.
 
I've got loads of eastern european girls that temp for me that have all offered to model free of charge!.

Send some my way, there's a good chap :D
 
Just totally confusing me with GN and T whatever's :) I think the Lencarta's are looking the most likely, I just like the look and design of the Quadra's. Intially I think I'd start with a one head set up and a beauty dish....

Before you select a beauty dish, remember that both systems you have mentioned have small flashheads that may not take a large dish safely. The Quadra does have an adaptor available to take larger/heavier mods but I have no idea how strong it really is.

Regards...
 
Before you select a beauty dish, remember that both systems you have mentioned have small flashheads that may not take a large dish safely. The Quadra does have an adaptor available to take larger/heavier mods but I have no idea how strong it really is.

Regards...
The Lencarta flash head, although plastic, is IMO much stronger than the alternative (partly because it's bigger and doesn't need a separate adapter to allow accessories to be used with it) and although the website warns against using large/heavy modifiers with it, in practice I've used that large beauty dish with it many times and have felt totally confident. People who visited Focus and saw my lighting demos will have seen me doing that, and of course I've used it outdoors in the wind too - it just needs reasonable care.

The heavy duty optional head from Lencarta, designed specifically to overcome this problem/perceived problem, isn't far away now.

I believe (but please check for yourself) that the metal head designed for use with the Ranger can be used with the Quadra, although I believe that an adapter is needed and that you'd lose the modelling lamp
 
You're right of course.

It's helpful that on that site a well informed reviewer has tested both a traditional head and a new tech head using the same method. I think under those circumstances you can use GN to compare. Also he handily compares the manufacturer stated GN and his tested GN. Different methods are going to give different results but I think you can piece it together. What we need is an equivalent to the Wilhelm institute for lights. It doesn't really matter what the metric is - just that the test is standard. We can all dream, right?

For me it's interesting that in a large power band the t.5 time for an IGBT is the same as a t.1 - which I guess is obvious when you think about it.

Anyway, this isn't helping the OP pick a light ;)

This isn't going to help the OP to pick a light either but:)
There is a sort of unofficial standard used for testing lights for guide numbers, AFAIK this is used by all reputable makers of studio flash, but not by makers of hotshoe flashguns, who tend to exaggerate performance by using the maximum zoom setting, and not by makers of the cheapest lights, who IMO just guess at the figures...

It's a simple test rig, the flash tube is 2m from the meter, the room is large enough for any light reflected from the walls and ceiling to not make a significant difference, and the flash is fired 10x at full power, in case of a rogue reading. Someone taking readings in their living room, with a low white ceiling and white walls will produce much higher figures than expected.

It sort of works but it has its limitations because the reflector fitted for the tests makes a HUGE difference to the result and, because of the different fittings, it's impossible to standardise on the reflector, even if it suited the manufacturer to do so...

Of course, it should be a standard reflector with an angle of 55 degrees, but even if the reflectors are all the same shape and design, the reflectivity can vary a lot. For example the Bowens standard reflector has a highly polished surface which produces a very high reading compared to the matt surface of the Lencarta one, and the Elinchrom standard reflector is similar to Lencarta. Years ago, some manufacturers produced optional white reflectors (Strobex and Courtney spring to mind, although there may have been others) and their white versions produced about 2 stops less light than their metal finish reflectors. There seems to be a trend for some manufacturers to inflate their figures by supplying highly polished reflectors, which inflate the figures but which produce such harsh light that they need some diffusion to make it usable - which reduces the guide number very substantially.

So what's the answer?
Well, of course one answer is to test without the reflector fitted at all. In theory this would create a level playing field but in practice the figures would be misunderstood by many people, and anyway there are some makes that have a built in 'mini reflector' just behind the flash tube...

Richard has a method that seems very valid to me, when he tests lighting for Advanced Photographer he fits an umbrella-style softbox to every light, this seems to me to be the best leveller there is at the moment because it works with every flash head.
 
Before you select a beauty dish, remember that both systems you have mentioned have small flashheads that may not take a large dish safely. The Quadra does have an adaptor available to take larger/heavier mods but I have no idea how strong it really is.

Regards...

The Elinchrom adapters are reasonably strong but they are better suited to the Rotalux soft boxes.
 
OT: This thread is somewhat similar to AB vs Elinchrom threads in American forums. :)
 
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