Lencarta Li-on vs. Elichrom Ranger Quadra

[Garry Edwards]

The only critical point made about the Safari Li-on in the test is that the flash durations aren't as quick as the tester would like. Personally I don't see the point of really short flash durations on lights designed for outdoor use because the limiting factor is always the shutter synch speed, but Richard (Hoppy UK) who tested it is entitled to his opinion.QUOTE]

Garry forgive me if I'm wrong but sync speed and flash duration are two different things. If shoting at 1/200th shutter speed but with a much faster flash duration, the flash would therefore freeze the subject - not the shutter speed...... So i you shoot that type of thing regularly would a faster flash duration not be more appropriate for you?

I appreciate you may not want or need to do that all the time but just wondering why you don't see the point of what I thought was an important issue.

A great review though and I know a few people will now be very tempted wit this as an option.

Cheers
Jim

Yes, sort of...
In the studio, shutter speed is pretty well a non-issue because the ambient lighting levels are low.
But say you're shooting outdoors in bright sunlight and say that your flash is producing 1 stop more light than the sun (in effect) and that you've got the superfast Profoto, which will freeze the action... (The Profoto is the one that I personally would go for if the Li-on didn't exist, because of the performance)

But your shutter speed is limited to 1/200th, which means that during that time it will let in so much ambient light that your action-stopping flash is mixed with blurred exposure from the ambient. That MAY be slightly better than having a slight blur from the flash too, but you won't get the full benefit of the faster flash duration unless you also have a camera that has a between-lens shutter that will synch at higher speeds.

So, if you're going to use a Hassie or a RZ67 you'll benefit from the shorter flash duration of the Profoto, if you're not then the benefits are much less. And if you use a lower powered flash without a high synch speed camera you'll be even worse off, because the flash won't have enough power in the first place.

Flash durations are the only thing holding me back. The Safari is just not fast enough for Skatboarding, which is why I will probably end up with the Elinchrom at some point.

Same problem, unless they are indoors or in the dark.

Thanks Garry, can you explain this assuming I am a not too bright. I have read it three times and don't get it.

As explained here

 

[EOS_JD]

Makes sense Garry and I was thinking the same way. But still an important issue depeding on how you shoot - I'd like a faster head than my 500BrXi's in my home studio but decided it's not worth spending a lot of money on another head for the amount of time I'd need it

 

[HoppyUK]

The point about flash durations is somewhat moot, if you're shooting outside in bright ambient light. Because the shutter speed is always longer than the flash duration regardless, you are always going to get ambient blurring/ghosting eating away at fast moving edge areas. The only way to get rid of that, is to use an equally fast shutter speed, ie high speed sync or the tail-sync hack, but both are very wasteful of power. There is no easy or cheap answer to that, eg this guy Dave Black, who needs eight hot-shoe guns in a rig to get enough power in HSS/FP Sync mode http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNDAINwhTWU

However, if the ambient light is low, or even dark, then the issue of ambinet blurring is greatly reduced, or even non-existant. In that situation, if you don't have fast durations, you're still stuffed and will get subject blurring.

Given that a popular technique these days is to use the flash to over-power the ambient and create a dark, moody background, fast durations are vital. Likewise, in situations where the flash is the only significant light source as in a studio or other indoors/closed location, short durations are essential to freeze movement.

BTW, the Elinchrom Quadra was tested with the faster duration A-head, and righly received praise for that, but was also marked down for not quite meeting the expected power output. I have since discovered that the slower duration S-head for the Quadra puts out about one third of a stop more light, and that is the power output quoted in Elinchrom's literature. So basically, if the S-head had been used for the Quadra review, it would have been marked up for power, but down a bit on durations.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

the profoto lost 2 points for build quality?

I'll be dammed if it did, the acuteb's are bombproof! Very exposed glass bulb on the heads though I guess...

Thanks Garry, can you explain this assuming I am a not too bright. I have read it three times and don't get it.

see the bottom few posts on this thread, pictures make it easy http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=363611&highlight=speedring

Garry + Lencarta, well done on a great result. Look forward to having a play with a li-on at focus

 

[Mahoneyd187]

I'll be dammed if it did, the acuteb's are bombproof!

Amen.

Profoto Acute B2 AIRs, £2,150, scored 88% on test*
Elinchrom Ranger Quadra, £1,115, scored 87% on test*
Elinhrom Ranger RX, £1,725, scored 76% on test*
Quantum QPAQ-X £1,630, scored 73% on test*
Bowens Gemini GM250R, £1,250, scored 71% on test*
Broncolor Mobil A2L £4,080, scored 71% on test*
*Prices and test results from Advanced Photographer

Find that a little hard to believe to be honest. No disrespect to the reviewer, but I've used all three systems (li-on,mobil,acuteb2) also, and completely disagree.

The aftersales support by way of rental houses is another commonly overlooked factor when investing in a system. Most won't need it, but at the same time, the magazine in question just plain isn't going to be picked up by many people who are heavily invested in something like Profoto/Broncolor. People with gear like that, don't need to read reviews in high street mags (no offence intended).

I don't mean to take anything away from the li-on, it's a great bit of kit (review almost finished), but to mark the competitors so lowly..well...

 

[HoppyUK]

Amen.



Find that a little hard to believe to be honest. No disrespect to the reviewer, but I've used all three systems (li-on,mobil,acuteb2) also, and completely disagree.

The aftersales support by way of rental houses is another commonly overlooked factor when investing in a system. Most won't need it, but at the same time, the magazine in question just plain isn't going to be picked up by many people who are heavily invested in something like Profoto/Broncolor. People with gear like that, don't need to read reviews in high street mags (no offence intended).

I don't mean to take anything away from the li-on, it's a great bit of kit (review almost finished), but to mark the competitors so lowly..well...

Danny, I take your point and the allocation of those marks is very difficult. In the intoduction to the review, I attempted to make clear the important parameters, but also added that if the reader's needs were different, they might come to a another conclusion. You need to read the whole review.

Maybe you don't need fast durations, or tons of power, or are already committed to one system or another, or have loads of money and don't care about weight because your assistant is doing the lugging.

But the key measures were power, capacity, quick recycle, fast durations, portability, and the big one - price. People usually head straight to the summary and conclusions, but the most relevant stuff for individuals is contained within the copy and test specs.

How do you compare one unit costing five times as much, with twice the size and weight, but better made and with 0.6 stops more power? From a magazine's standpoint, you have to take a view and stick to it, make that as clear as possible, and accept that other folks might assess things differently.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Yep, must be difficult to review a range of products with such huge price differences, and aimed at your target audience. Sure its a good review.

 

[Mahoneyd187]

Danny, I take your point and the allocation of those marks is very difficult. In the intoduction to the review, I attempted to make clear the important parameters, but also added that if the reader's needs were different, they might come to a another conclusion. You need to read the whole review.

Maybe you don't need fast durations, or tons of power, or are already committed to one system or another, or have loads of money and don't care about weight because your assistant is doing the lugging.

But the key measures were power, capacity, quick recycle, fast durations, portability, and the big one - price. People usually head straight to the summary and conclusions, but the most relevant stuff for individuals is contained within the copy and test specs.

How do you compare one unit costing five times as much, with twice the size and weight, but better made and with 0.6 stops more power? From a magazine's standpoint, you have to take a view and stick to it, make that as clear as possible, and accept that other folks might assess things differently.

Hi Richard,

I hope you can appreciate I don't mean to disregard you, your review, or the positive response to the li-on, because I don't mean for any of that.

And you're right, I haven't read the full review, but I hope to

It's completely understandable that there are considerations and difficulties when comparing these kinds of products, they just aren't on a "like for like" basis, and they aren't made to appeal to the same markets.

Fortunately I had the pleasure of using a Li-on for a month alongside my Bron Mobil. The Li-on really is a great bit of kit. Though, if I was to be given either system for the same cost, or free, I couldn't fight the corner of the li-on. It's brilliant for the cost, but cost is a single factor in chosing your kit, it's a big consideration, but it's still a single factor. The thing's I need for flash equipment are durability, reliability, rentals and outright power. So of course, the benefits of the smaller li-on are wasted on me, even the xxx amount of flashes...if I shoot 4 rolls of 120 on a shoot why do I need xxx flashes.

Having said that, if/when Lencarta release more durable heads for the Li-on (which I consider the only real weakness), my opinion may change

 

[ShawWellPete]

I'll be dammed if it did, the acuteb's are bombproof! Very exposed glass bulb on the heads though I guess...

see the bottom few posts on this thread, pictures make it easy http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=363611&highlight=speedring

Garry + Lencarta, well done on a great result. Look forward to having a play with a li-on at focus

Thanks for that, I have ordered one of the Calumet rings

 

[HoppyUK]

Yep, must be difficult to review a range of products with such huge price differences, and aimed at your target audience. Sure its a good review.

Cheers Dave

Hi Richard,

I hope you can appreciate I don't mean to disregard you, your review, or the positive response to the li-on, because I don't mean for any of that.

And you're right, I haven't read the full review, but I hope to

It's completely understandable that there are considerations and difficulties when comparing these kinds of products, they just aren't on a "like for like" basis, and they aren't made to appeal to the same markets.

Fortunately I had the pleasure of using a Li-on for a month alongside my Bron Mobil. The Li-on really is a great bit of kit. Though, if I was to be given either system for the same cost, or free, I couldn't fight the corner of the li-on. It's brilliant for the cost, but cost is a single factor in chosing your kit, it's a big consideration, but it's still a single factor. The thing's I need for flash equipment are durability, reliability, rentals and outright power. So of course, the benefits of the smaller li-on are wasted on me, even the xxx amount of flashes...if I shoot 4 rolls of 120 on a shoot why do I need xxx flashes.

Having said that, if/when Lencarta release more durable heads for the Li-on (which I consider the only real weakness), my opinion may change

You're quite right Danny. No beef with that at all. You have different requirements.

And sure, it's hard to compare something like Bron and Lencarta given the difference in cost, but the review is about powerful battery flash options and so they're both in the frame for that. It's the magazine's job to have a go at comparing them, from as broad a cross-section of the readership as possible.

People in the market for these things want to know what the options are and how they compare. If the Bron was excluded simply on the basis of cost, people would want to know why and to know just what they might get by splurging that kind of money, regardless of what they end up buying.

 

[Garry Edwards]

You know what I would buy if money were no object?
1. Profoto (because both the build quality and performance are so good)
2. Lencarta (performance, battery life, build quality)
3. Elinchrom Ranger RS (performance, build quality - OK it doesn't have 2:1 power ratio, so what, that wouldn't bother me personally)
4. Elinchrom Quadra (as tested with the faster but less efficient A head, for jobs that don't require much power or a lot of shots from the battery (light weight)
There is no 5, 6, or 7 for me. I wouldn't consider either the Bron or the Quantum, and the Bowens kit with the battery pack has too many restraints for me.

But as others have said, that's just personal opinion based on the type of work I do and other people who have different needs are likely to have different opinions.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

You know what I would buy if money were no object?
1. Profoto (because both the build quality and performance are so good)
2. Lencarta (performance, battery life, build quality)
3. Elinchrom Ranger RS (performance, build quality - OK it doesn't have 2:1 power ratio, so what, that wouldn't bother me personally)
4. Elinchrom Quadra (as tested with the faster but less efficient A head, for jobs that don't require much power or a lot of shots from the battery (light weight)
There is no 5, 6, or 7 for me. I wouldn't consider either the Bron or the Quantum, and the Bowens kit with the battery pack has too many restraints for me.

But as others have said, that's just personal opinion based on the type of work I do and other people who have different needs are likely to have different opinions.

Exact same order of preference here (though I haven't used the Bron yet - Danny, we should shoot some time ).

There's something amazing about profoto light, you really can tell the difference. Sounds ridiculous? Yep. But I'm by no means the only person to say it... But then, oh boy, you pay for it.

 

[treeman]

You know what I would buy if money were no object?
1. Profoto (because both the build quality and performance are so good)
2. Lencarta (performance, battery life, build quality)
3. Elinchrom Ranger RS (performance, build quality - OK it doesn't have 2:1 power ratio, so what, that wouldn't bother me personally)
4. Elinchrom Quadra (as tested with the faster but less efficient A head, for jobs that don't require much power or a lot of shots from the battery (light weight)

Just for the sake of clarity The Elinchrom Ranger RX is available in symmetrical and asymmetrical

There's something amazing about profoto light, you really can tell the difference. Sounds ridiculous? Yep. But I'm by no means the only person to say it... But then, oh boy, you pay for it.

I've heard it said, I've seen it, and since I've been using them I can vouch for it, but I wouldn't like to try and qualify it with any sound science......it just looks nicer

 

[Garry Edwards]

Just for the sake of clarity The Elinchrom Ranger RX is available in symmetrical and asymmetrical

I think you'll find that it's just a case of reducing the output of one socket by plugging in a head that has a shorter flash duration, that isn't asymmetry, it's just effectively reducing the power of a flash head. Putting a bit of mild ND gel would achieve the same result for a lot less money.

As I've said before, I don't personally consider asymmetrical power (in the sense that it's applied to portable power solutions) to be much more than a marketing feature. To get symmetry, you'd need to have exactly the same modifier on each head and for each to be at exactly the same distance from the subject, so it isn't a real solution to a real problem.

 

[paul williams]

Thanks for that, I have ordered one of the Calumet rings

Which inner adaptor are you planning to use? Further down that thread I posted;

"And be aware that these have use a smaller diameter 140mm adapter than say the 152mm ones sold by Lencarta (or used in their speedring) - Lastolite's are 138mm IIRC and are OK. Calumet of course will also sell these for Elinchrom and Bowens & others."

Paul

 

[ShawWellPete]

Which inner adaptor are you planning to use? Further down that thread I posted;

"And be aware that these have use a smaller diameter 140mm adapter than say the 152mm ones sold by Lencarta (or used in their speedring) - Lastolite's are 138mm IIRC and are OK. Calumet of course will also sell these for Elinchrom and Bowens & others."

Paul

Oops, I ordered the RD3100 Calumet Universal Speedring, is that not right one?

 

[itsdavedotnet]

I think you may need to get the bowens insert as well as the speedring, as the calumet speedring might not work with the bowens fit part of your existing speedrings.

Give them a call, sure you'll be able to change/cancel your order. You'll need a decent umbrella swivel too.

 

[HoppyUK]

I think you'll find that it's just a case of reducing the output of one socket by plugging in a head that has a shorter flash duration, that isn't asymmetry, it's just effectively reducing the power of a flash head. Putting a bit of mild ND gel would achieve the same result for a lot less money.

As I've said before, I don't personally consider asymmetrical power (in the sense that it's applied to portable power solutions) to be much more than a marketing feature. To get symmetry, you'd need to have exactly the same modifier on each head and for each to be at exactly the same distance from the subject, so it isn't a real solution to a real problem.

There are three Elinchrom RX Rangers - the RX (in the review), the RX Speed (faster recycle) and RX Speed AS (assimetrically split). Then there are the standard S-type heads, or A-types with faster durations but slightly less brightness (in the review).

It gets complicated, but with two heads and asymetric splits (not just Elinchrom) you can set up all sorts of different combinations of power and flash durations, or get the same power in different ways with different durations (and maybe a small colour shift) depending how you configure the different sockets, switches and dials!

 

[Michael Sewell]

It gets complicated, but with two heads and asymetric splits (not just Elinchrom) you can set up all sorts of different combinations of power and flash durations, or get the same power in different ways with different durations (and maybe a small colour shift) depending how you configure the different sockets, switches and dials!

Now there's a good source for a migraine, if ever there was one! :bonk:

 

[ShawWellPete]

I think you may need to get the bowens insert as well as the speedring, as the calumet speedring might not work with the bowens fit part of your existing speedrings.

Give them a call, sure you'll be able to change/cancel your order. You'll need a decent umbrella swivel too.

Thanks Dave, I'll get in touch

 

[ding76uk]

The advantage to stepping up to this kind of flash is to overpower ambient more than a flashgun. 2 stops under ambient is general for skate photography which is made easier in sunnier conditions by using the ranger for example over a 430ex.

If you can get the output of power but the flash duration is not fast enough to freeze motion, then you end up with flash blurring. This is why the Elinchrom is more beneficial for me, but I do like the look of the Safari in all other ways. I know you mentioned that fast duration causes stress on components before IIRC which is why Lencarta don't have the faster duration. Is there any possibility of an action head being produced at any point in the future? this would then make my decision very easy.

 

[Garry Edwards]

The advantage to stepping up to this kind of flash is to overpower ambient more than a flashgun. 2 stops under ambient is general for skate photography which is made easier in sunnier conditions by using the ranger for example over a 430ex.

If you can get the output of power but the flash duration is not fast enough to freeze motion, then you end up with flash blurring. This is why the Elinchrom is more beneficial for me, but I do like the look of the Safari in all other ways. I know you mentioned that fast duration causes stress on components before IIRC which is why Lencarta don't have the faster duration. Is there any possibility of an action head being produced at any point in the future? this would then make my decision very easy.

Carl,
I'm not saying that the Lencarta Safari Li-on is the right choice for everyone, it's just the best all round choice (according to the review - and me and it may well be that another brand is a better choice for you. And the Elinchrom units are good products, I very much doubt whether the Quadra will have enough power for you, but maybe the Ranger is your best option.

But you know, according to that review the flash durations aren't that fast on the Quadra, with the high speed head fitted to it. Richard estimated the t.1 speed to be 1/1200th sec at full power (and as full power is only 270 Ws it won't help you to know that at minimum power it's even better at 1/2500th sec). The Ranger RX produced times of 1/1200th sec at full power and 1/900th sec at minimum power and both of the Elinchrom models are much better in that department than the Safari Li-on, with an estimated speed ranging from 1/500th to 1/1000th sec, depending on the power setting.

Will the new heavy duty Lencarta head have a much shorter flash duration? Good question, I just don't know. Let's just say that I've spent the last few weeks shouting at the factory chief engineer asking him nicely to produce that option for us. So, I'm hopeful but as I don't make promises that I can't deliver, so it's a case of wait and see...

 

[HoppyUK]

Garry, I didn't actually mention t.1 times. I did suggest a very rough conversion of 2x t.5 to get somewhere close to what the visual impression of flash action-stopping potential looks like in terms of shutter speed equivalents, but it's both variable and subjective.

As a comment, Elinchrom's quoted times seem to look closer to the real thing than most, whereas some other brands were frankly miles off, eg Lastolite a couple of issues before. You really have to check the magazine, look at the images and make a judgement.

It's a difficult question, because in terms of action stopping, the way that flash works is completely different compared to shutter speeds. Hot-shoe guns are different again, usually very close to real shutter speeds, except at full power.

FWIW, it seems to me that we need a new formula. Something like t.5 multiplied by the relative height of the peak above the threshold level - that's the bit that freezes action visually. I don't have that formula

Manufacturers could easily try a bit harder to quote meaningful data though. It could be done, but t.5 is an accepted industry standard and it suits manufacturers because it flatters their performance.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Richard, you're right. Wearing my Garry Edwards hat I'd like to quote t.1 times because I think that they are far more relevant to the user than t.5 times - but wearing my Lencarta hat I just have to go along with the crowd and quote t.5 times, because if Lencarta quoted t.1 times their products would look bad compared to the rest of the world, who quote t.5 times. Lencarta isn't trying to flatter their performance, just trying to operate on a level playing field.

I did suggest a very rough conversion of 2x t.5 to get somewhere close to what the visual impression of flash action-stopping potential looks like in terms of shutter speed equivalents, but it's both variable and subjective.

I'm not sure that it's subjective but I have to agree that it's variable, some makes have a longer 'tail' than others, it's relevant to the pressure - maybe not the best word to use but the best one I can think of - in the system and the design of the equipment.

I think that maybe Elinchrom does better than most in this department and your figure of 2x t.5 may be right with their equipment. My understanding of the reason for this is that their 'tail' falls off pretty quickly and ends up in the non-visible spectrum, maybe not actually IR but somewhere near to it. I believe that this applies to Profoto too but most other makes are probably nearer 3 x t.5 - this is all just my personal opinion BTW, but backed up by measurement. I use an oscilloscope for measuring flash duration, it isn't as reader-friendly as fan blades but it's pretty objective. The problem is, I can only measure what's in front of me and so my testing is a bit random and far from complete.

I think that whats really needed here is honesty and transparency. The leading brands,where they publish figures at all, tend to be both honest with their figures and transparent with their testing methods. It's the peripheral players that really wind me up - my 'favourite' is the statement that can be found on a lot of websites "Color temperature 5600 within 100K", that winds me up because I've actually tested some of these flash heads and found a variance of 1000K, and I'll stick my neck out here, but I don't think it's even possible to get a variance of just 100K.

Now, the American spelling of "Color" is a bit of a giveaway here. If you happen to know who actually makes the stuff you can go onto the website of the Chinese manufacturer and you'll see that the info has been lifted directly from there. And where they got if from I don't know, but I could guess...

Same thing happens with stated flash durations.

The simple fact of the matter is that if really short flash durations are important to people then they basically have choices:
1. Use hotshoe flashguns at low power settings and live with the very low power (sell the car and use a whole bunch of them together to overcome this). Live with a wide shift in colour temperature, because the quenched flash makes it go very blue, and live with the lack of a modelling lamp and the lack of effective modifiers too.
2. Spend quite a lot of money on something like Profoto or the really top end Bowens.
3. Go with Elinchrom, which for many people is a good choice because they make good products at prices that aren't extortionate - but accept that the actual power output is going to drop quite a bit.

My own answer of course, unless people really do need ultra-short flash durations, is to go with Lencarta - but then I would say that wouldn't I? But I do have a good reason. The Safari Li-on is operating well within its capabilities, it isn't stressed by having to force a lot of power through a tiny flash tube and it can be expected to last a very long time - plus of course the delivered power, battery life and rock steady output.

 

[ding76uk]

Carl,
I'm not saying that the Lencarta Safari Li-on is the right choice for everyone, it's just the best all round choice (according to the review - and me and it may well be that another brand is a better choice for you. And the Elinchrom units are good products, I very much doubt whether the Quadra will have enough power for you, but maybe the Ranger is your best option.

But you know, according to that review the flash durations aren't that fast on the Quadra, with the high speed head fitted to it. Richard estimated the t.1 speed to be 1/1200th sec at full power (and as full power is only 270 Ws it won't help you to know that at minimum power it's even better at 1/2500th sec). The Ranger RX produced times of 1/1200th sec at full power and 1/900th sec at minimum power and both of the Elinchrom models are much better in that department than the Safari Li-on, with an estimated speed ranging from 1/500th to 1/1000th sec, depending on the power setting.

Will the new heavy duty Lencarta head have a much shorter flash duration? Good question, I just don't know. Let's just say that I've spent the last few weeks shouting at the factory chief engineer asking him nicely to produce that option for us. So, I'm hopeful but as I don't make promises that I can't deliver, so it's a case of wait and see...

My bank balance says wait and see too, so fingers crossed. I wasn't having a moan about the Lencarta, the opposite in fact. For everything else I do they seem to be perfect and I hear good things, just a faster duration would make it a must have rather than a do i or don't I.

 

[HoppyUK]

All interesting stuff Garry.

There's another variable too - shutter speed. All the tests I did were at 1/125sec, because the idea was to show flash durations only. But at 1/250sec, at least some of the tail of the flash that creates the blurring would get chopped off by the shutter, and maybe tighten up the colour shift too. In other words, a visually faster effective flash duration.

I've not done any really controlled tests with that before and I'm not sure it will make a huge difference, but it should be noticeable. Must try that some time.

 

[kiteninja]

Pretty good Lencarta Advert , I might have a gander in WHsmith at the rest of the article, I'm still in the "if its too good to be true it normally is"

I still own the original safari but I wouldn't go so far as to say the sun shines out of its arse (which is the impression I'm getting from this thread) compared to every other flash system.

Out of interest why didn't you compare some of the other top of the range lights?

 

[HoppyUK]

Pretty good Lencarta Advert , I might have a gander in WHsmith at the rest of the article, I'm still in the "if its too good to be true it normally is"

I still own the original safari but I wouldn't go so far as to say the sun shines out of its arse (which is the impression I'm getting from this thread) compared to every other flash system.

Out of interest why didn't you compare some of the other top of the range lights?

We reviewed 19 different units from ten manufacturers over three months.

Back issues are available

 

[kiteninja]

We reviewed 19 different units from ten manufacturers over three months.

Back issues are available

I want to go out on a whim here and say that Lencarta lights have out shined (no pun) the other 9 as well.


I don't buy magazines any more they just tend to be 80% advertisements which I know is how they fund the issues but if I want adverts I'll watch ITV.

 

[cherryrig]

The advantage to stepping up to this kind of flash is to overpower ambient more than a flashgun. 2 stops under ambient is general for skate photography which is made easier in sunnier conditions by using the ranger for example over a 430ex.

If you can get the output of power but the flash duration is not fast enough to freeze motion, then you end up with flash blurring. This is why the Elinchrom is more beneficial for me, but I do like the look of the Safari in all other ways. I know you mentioned that fast duration causes stress on components before IIRC which is why Lencarta don't have the faster duration. Is there any possibility of an action head being produced at any point in the future? this would then make my decision very easy.

If your after something for skateboard photo, take a look at the Lumedyne Action Packs, fast durations and a lot of power. Come in either 400W or 200W packs. Build is not too bad. I know about 6 different skate photographers who use them, however speaking to one the other day he's actually looking to upgrade to the Quadra due to the fast durations it's firing out.

I was waiting for this review to come out, after reading it today I think it's safe to say I'll wait and save some money till I've got enough for some Elinchrom Qua's myself!!

 

[ShawWellPete]

Richard, are you a regular contributed to the mag? I must say I subscribe to 3 camera mags, advanced Photographer, Digital Camera and another one whose name I've forgotten and AP is the best by a long shot. It's reviews like this one that I appreciate, you really can't get that kind of balanced view online.

 

[HoppyUK]

I want to go out on a whim here and say that Lencarta lights have out shined (no pun) the other 9 as well.

I don't buy magazines any more they just tend to be 80% advertisements which I know is how they fund the issues but if I want adverts I'll watch ITV.

Well you'd be wrong. Lencarta accounted for themselves very well, and for value they can't be beaten IMO. However, for not a huge amount more money and as a fully rounded package, Elinchrom is very strong across a huge range of products. At the top end, Profoto is class.

It would be a very happy publisher that could count on 80% advertising. Current edition of Advanced Photographer is 24% paid advertising.

Richard, are you a regular contributed to the mag? I must say I subscribe to 3 camera mags, advanced Photographer, Digital Camera and another one whose name I've forgotten and AP is the best by a long shot. It's reviews like this one that I appreciate, you really can't get that kind of balanced view online.

I write for a few magazines, mainly Advanced Photographer and it's sister mag, the entry-level Digital SLR.

Yes, the problem with on-line stuff is generally you get what you pay for. It takes a huge amount of time and effort to organise these big reviews, weeks and weeks of work, and that costs.

They're never as good as I would like them to be, as detailed or as in depth. Indeed a lot of the work I do on them never even gets mentioned, because space is precious and not every reader wants to know about studio flash! But I hope most of the stuff that's missing can be gleaned from manufacturers' literature.

 

[itsdavedotnet]

Carl, end of the day, if you need battery power and stupidly fast durations, buy profoto or bron.


Profoto light is crazy fast, and frankly....magic.


You do pay for it though.

 

[Garry Edwards]

Well you'd be wrong. Lencarta accounted for themselves very well, and for value they can't be beaten IMO. However, for not a huge amount more money and as a fully rounded package, Elinchrom is very strong across a huge range of products. At the top end, Profoto is class.

It would be a very happy publisher that could count on 80% advertising. Current edition of Advanced Photographer is 24% paid advertising.



I write for a few magazines, mainly Advanced Photographer and it's sister mag, the entry-level Digital SLR.

Yes, the problem with on-line stuff is generally you get what you pay for. It takes a huge amount of time and effort to organise these big reviews, weeks and weeks of work, and that costs.

They're never as good as I would like them to be, as detailed or as in depth. Indeed a lot of the work I do on them never even gets mentioned, because space is precious and not every reader wants to know about studio flash! But I hope most of the stuff that's missing can be gleaned from manufacturers' literature.

Reviews are funny things. Magazines are constantly trying to get products to review, they need to fill the mag. Manufacturers are always trying to get publicity, and as they know that technical writers are very unlikely to use plain language to warn their readers off of buying a particular product, they are usually keen to supply products for review.


But not all reviews are equal, and some are totally useless. Some of the entry level and 'red top' mags seem to get their reviews carried out by the teaboyperson, who clearly knows far less about the subject than the average reader. I remember one 'review' that praised a flash kit to the heavens, but the reviewer (who apparently had been passionately involved in landscape photography for over a year) waxed lyrical because it had a magical radio trigger set! You can (usually) rely on the integrity of reviews, but unfortunately you can't always rely on the competence of the reviewer, and you can't always rely either on sufficient resources being put into the testing.

Sometimes a review gives bad information in good faith. There was a review of the Safari Li-on that mentioned that the power output was much lower than expected - well, that will be because the reviewer didn't press the A+B button to direct all the power to socket A, so he didn't get the full 600Ws that we know the Safari produces, he only got 400 Ws.

I want to go out on a whim here and say that Lencarta lights have out shined (no pun) the other 9 as well.

There are two distinct 'sides' to magazines, advertising sales and editorial. I'm sure that the two sides say good morning to each other, but the advertising side has absolutely no influence when it comes to editorial content. Over the last few months, Lencarta has supplied 4 different products to Advanced Photographer.
1. Quadlite continuous light - won best in test by a country mile
2. SmartFlash, for the budget flash review - the best in test was an Elinchrom, the SmartFlash didn't get included in the test as such, although it did get an honourable mention, with the suggestion that it would be a much better choice than another flash head that was included (from memory)
3. Next up was the ElitePro 300 and ElitePro 600, in the higher end review. Again, Elinchrom came first, Lencarta was praised but it didn't win.
4. And finally, the Portable flash solutions, and as you know, Lencarta again got best in test.

I don't get to make the decisions at Lencarta, I just advise (and shout) but my view is that in future, reviews should be limited to the very best magazines, where the products are tested by people who do the job properly and who have a track record, even though it's actually much easier to get a glowing review in the red tops - and as for the online ones...

 

[arad85]

Some of the entry level and 'red top' mags seem to get their reviews carried out by the teaboyperson, who clearly knows far less about the subject than the average reader.

Ably demonstrated a few years ago by What HiFi Sound and Vision... They reviewed a Panasonic TV and claimed it did 24p (BluRay) without judder. There was a whole thread on it on their forums where they staunchly defended why they were correct - only to have to publish an apology a few days later when they actually got confirmation from Panasonic that the general public knew more than they did.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/tvs-and-projectors/panasonic-24fps-customers-need-to-know

for those that want to see the gory detail....

 

[Garry Edwards]

Ably demonstrated a few years ago by What HiFi Sound and Vision... They reviewed a Panasonic TV and claimed it did 24p (BluRay) without judder. There was a whole thread on it on their forums where they staunchly defended why they were correct - only to have to publish an apology a few days later when they actually got confirmation from Panasonic that the general public knew more than they did.

http://www.whathifi.com/forum/tvs-and-projectors/panasonic-24fps-customers-need-to-know

for those that want to see the gory detail....

Yes, that's the sort of thing that happen. The problem is, the readers assume that the reviewer knows more than they do - which is usually the case, but not always
BTW, your DR code is very annoying - but funny!

 

[Sebastian]

Oh dear, this thread should be rewarded for the amount of useful information! Thank you all for your input.
I've went to WHSmith and bought Advanced Photographer, will ready the test tomorrow morning!

 

[HoppyUK]

Yes, that's the sort of thing that happen. The problem is, the readers assume that the reviewer knows more than they do - which is usually the case, but not always
BTW, your DR code is very annoying - but funny!

And sometimes, reviewers take the manufacturer's word for things that are not true. Pretty much ranging from lies on one hand, to economies of truth on the other, of which almost every manufacturer is guilty.

From just these reviews, I could give you several examples of features that are claimed but don't exist (and continue to be claimed ) or that do exist but the distributor doesn't even know about them, both pros and cons. One distributor has now changed company policy as a result, and all credit to them.

We all makes mistakes. I've made plenty

 

[Garry Edwards]

We all makes mistakes. I've made plenty

I bet I've made more than you - I'm older

I didn't have any of your current magazine interests in mind when I mentioned incorrect/misleading reviews. It was a general comment about the lack of resources that some publishers put into reviews, and especially in some of the less serious titles - which is where the readers are likely to have less experience and so rely more on the magazine

 

[blinkerz]

surprised they didnt review the hensel porty lith in comparison.. lightweight with 2 head option 1:1:,1:2,1:3 power ratio and very quick recycle times