Leica SL , 24MP FF Mirrorless Camera

stevelmx5 said:
The price - No photographer worth their salt should be arsed about the price of their kit dictating how good their results are.
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It's not aimed at professionals... they can publish all the hyperbole they want, but it's just not. They've tapped a rich vein of avarice and aspirational idiots will think having this will fulfil them in some way.... oh, and take better photographs. They're wrong on both counts.
 
Pookeyhead said:
Oh god.....

Incredulity would be nearer the mark. Can someone please explain why this is £5000?

There's no photographic reason to buy this camera that I can understand.
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Economies of scale, increased labour costs, hand made, higher tolerances, more expensive materials. Pick your poision. You'll buy the SL like I said because you have Leica R glass or M glass or you can't focus a rangefinder or so you can shoot broadcast quality 4K video with high end lenses. Try mounting all your Leica glass on a more expensive 1DX.
 
Pookeyhead said:
It's not aimed at professionals... they can publish all the hyperbole they want, but it's just not. They've tapped a rich vein of avarice and aspirational idiots will think having this will fulfil them in some way.... oh, and take better photographs. They're wrong on both counts.
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Yeah it looks a real amateur set up:

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I know it is hard to believe but there are better photographers than you out there.
 
Oh man, I didn't realise Leica's were the only cameras used in rigs...

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I've also just seen the details behind Leica's claim of the fastest AF in the world ever...it's with a lens that hasn't actually been used by anyone and won't be released until next year. That clears that up then, I'll shut up now.

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stevelmx5 said:
Just to clarify my point about what makes the SL a 'Professional' camera;

The build - Yes, it's going to be very well made and have tight tolerances/sealing. However, the materials/build alone aren't important if it's not comfortable to hold or use. Every review I've read (even the fawning ones) have said the grip is uncomfortable, the buttons are awkward and the functions take some getting used to.

The Specs - Ok, so it's Contrast Detect AF only like an A7, it's got 39 focus points like an A7, it's got 24mp like an A7, it shoots 7fps with continuous AF/exposure so 2 more than an A7. It has a larger buffer but takes upwards of 90 seconds to actually write that to the card. As far as I can see, it's two unique points are the EVF which looks very good and dual card slots. I assume the EVF is a Panasonic unit so hopefully it may filter down to some of the more reasonably priced kit.

The lens has no aperture ring, is sharp at the wide end but appears to be soft on the long end and to my eyes it looks cheap in comparison to the body.

The price - No photographer worth their salt should be arsed about the price of their kit dictating how good their results are. If the SL body was priced at £2500 like an A7S would that mean it wouldn't be a pro body anymore?

Some of the Leica releases suggest photojournalists using the SL. Can you really see someone heading into a war zone with a blingy body and massive lens whilst trying to blend in?
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Leica has long been joked about for making M cameras with gold leaf and M9s in titanium and snakeskin and other garbage limited editions and here they are doing something innovative and bringing something new and it's supposedly no good. What is it people want? A small, niche manufacturer making high quality hand made cameras and lenses selling them for the same price as a robot churning out Sony cameras in the far east? They'd be out of business by next week.
 
stevelmx5 said:
Oh man, I didn't realise Leica's were the only cameras used in rigs...

View attachment 48949

I've also just seen the details behind Leica's claim of the fastest AF in the world ever...it's with a lens that hasn't actually been used by anyone and won't be released until next year. That clears that up then, I'll shut up now.

View attachment 48950
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So a professional rig being used by professionals then? Thanks for backing up my point. It looks like a good innovative camera with very good lenses, what do folk want? It for the price of a Sony A7R?
 
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You're still ignoring the facts of my post like the rest of this thread. The fact is, Leica aren't being innovative, they've released a "me too" camera that looks like the oversized relative of the cameras being 'churned out in the Far East'.

Specification wise it's not very exciting or unique and funnily enough, there's a fair chance the sensor, EVF and AF system are made by Panasonic which is really going to wind up the Leica die hards if they actually admit it..
 
I don't think anyone would expect every single electronic component in their camera to be made by Leica - my M8 has a Kodak sensor and this does not particularly bother me.
 
It wouldn't bother me either but there's a certain amount of distain coming across for the Far Eastern box shifters and Currys-supplied mirrorless kit. Hence it being quite funny that the actual amount of hardware within the SL being Panasonic supplied is interesting.
 
Pookeyhead said:
It's not aimed at professionals... they can publish all the hyperbole they want, but it's just not. They've tapped a rich vein of avarice and aspirational idiots will think having this will fulfil them in some way.... oh, and take better photographs. They're wrong on both counts.
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It's clearly an expensive item that you may not think has any value, and it does little for me either, but why all the name-calling at those that may wish to buy it? A cock? An idiot? A bit OTT and it comes across as rather childish.
 
Laudrup said:
Yeah it looks a real amateur set up:

24n4j2f.jpg


I know it is hard to believe but there are better photographers than you out there.
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Stop being silly... this is about whether you need to spend 5k on a 35mm camera. You can get rigs for ANY camera. If you're a professional film maker with money to burn, you'd be buying a Red or Arri system, not arsing about with this thing. If you're on a budget, then you'd just use a 5D MkIII like everyone else.

stevelmx5 said:
You're still ignoring the facts of my post like the rest of this thread. The fact is, Leica aren't being innovative, they've released a "me too" camera that looks like the oversized relative of the cameras being 'churned out in the Far East'.

Specification wise it's not very exciting or unique and funnily enough, there's a fair chance the sensor, EVF and AF system are made by Panasonic which is really going to wind up the Leica die hards if they actually admit it..
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^This. It's about time manufacturers of such repute put money into R&D to move things forward, not inventing ways to get fools and their money parted... and it's about time people stopped creating this ridiculous market by treating cameras like status items and started treating them more like tools instead.
 
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If it was ten grand cheaper and took great photos would you buy it despite it being uglier than the elephant man in a gurning competition
 
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boliston said:
If someone decided to buy you for that sum then that's what you would be worth.
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This is the problem. People buying cameras for the wrong reasons, and manufacturers responding accordingly. You can't blame them. They'll make what sells.

This mentality....

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...drives this stupid evolution in cameras that pander to stupid amateur wants instead of actual needs. More professional cameras are sold to amateurs than professionals now, and the manufacturers are listening to whoever gives them money. You just KNOW the next Nikon camera will be a 50 mega pixel chunk of stupidity, and not something that actually serves to push photography forward because they HAVE to respond to Canon. The D800 was stupid in this respect too. Even the much vaunted Otus lenses can't out-resolve that sensor, so why push for 50MP? It's just a number now - meaningless in any photographic measure. What they should be doing, is developing larger formats, or higher sensitivity sensors, or even better lenses, but are they? No... they'll just embark on a silly arms race instead. Same with this Leica. It's designed to extract money from people, not push any boundaries. The more idiots buy this crap, the longer it will be before we see any real progress... progress that is actually possible now, if it wasn't for the fact that there's cash to be made by pandering to the one-upmanship of fools.

They're just tools!! Stop treating them like jewellery.
 
I can't say the SL really inspires me at all. I see the option of mirrorless as being a light and transportable system offering great image quality. With this I just think, I may as well have a DSLR with me. That's just my 2 pence worth.

Leica have become a bit of a boutique brand - and whether thats right or not is another argument altogether. I quite liked the Q that they released recently - although 28mm fixed isn't really my preferred focal length, it is a really nice piece of kit and the optical output is stellar. I was hoping that this mirrorless offering was going to offer something similar in design but I was disappointed and the cost is just crazy. It's a shame they didn't launch it with the classic 50mm f/2 or f/1.4

Their is a lot of buzz about the SL at the moment and whether good or bad, it's safe to say that they are getting a good bit of free marketing out of this.

boliston said:
I don't think anyone would expect every single electronic component in their camera to be made by Leica - my M8 has a Kodak sensor and this does not particularly bother me.
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And a nice sensor it is too! :)
 
Ruffmeister said:
Their is a lot of buzz about the SL at the moment and whether good or bad, it's safe to say that they are getting a good bit of free marketing out of this.
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I'm not and probably never will be a Leica customer and I feel no great need to leap to their defence but reading this thread we do seem to be a bunch of fun suckers :D

I've read a few blogs and reports and although there are mutterings about the cost, bulk and weight and lens choices there also seem to be reports of good performance and image quality and even if I'm not a customer I can't see the introduction of this new Leica as anything but a good thing :D

Good luck to Leica and those who will either buy into this new system or even just lust after it.
 
Laudrup said:
Economies of scale, increased labour costs, hand made, higher tolerances, more expensive materials. Pick your poision. You'll buy the SL like I said because you have Leica R glass or M glass or you can't focus a rangefinder or so you can shoot broadcast quality 4K video with high end lenses. Try mounting all your Leica glass on a more expensive 1DX.
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You can shoot more than broadcast quality on compacts these days.

And who needs 4k apart from cine shooters?
 
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odd jim said:
You can shoot more than broadcast quality on compacts these days.

And who needs 4k apart from cine shooters?
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Lots of people seem to think they do just like lots of people seem to think they need 50 mega pixels! I don't see it myself I'm storing more than enough data already thanks!
 
The Leica flash is a rebadged Nissin i40. I wonder how much the badge will cost some poser.
 
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ianp5a said:
The Leica flash is a rebadged Nissin i40.
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Yup! TBH if this is really their new flash, and they charge an extortionately higher price that would be borderline criminal (not that there's anything wrong with Nissin flashes, I think they're rather good but that's not the point!)

I might re brand my Jessops flash and try and sell it on eBay. I'm sure that would be against the rules?!
 
You see, the trouble with you naysayers on here, you don't appreciate style and quality. And that doesn't come cheap. There's no point in me trying to explain it to you. It's not about the technical facts, it's the heritage. It's the intangible qualities that make a Leica a Leica. And some of us get that. We don't go around bragging that we got some great deal, and that we saved some money. And when we do spend a lot, we don't want to have some cheap Japanese name all over it. It's a Leica and should be seen to be a Leica. When people see that red dot they know. They'll nod to say, "there's someone who appreciates quality, and are not afraid to show it".
 
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ianp5a said:
You see, the trouble with you naysayers on here, you don't appreciate style and quality. And that doesn't come cheap. There's no point in me trying to explain it to you. It's not about the technical facts, it's the heritage. It's the intangible qualities that make a Leica a Leica. And some of us get that. We don't go around bragging that we got some great deal, and that we saved some money. And when we do spend a lot, we don't want to have some cheap Japanese name all over it. It's a Leica and should be seen to be a Leica. When people see that red dot they know. They'll nod to say, "there's someone who appreciates quality, and are not afraid to show it".
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Lol, its a good thing Mr. Stylish came to inform all the peasants.
 
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Pookeyhead said:
They're just tools!! Stop treating them like jewellery.
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If you are a professional, of course they are tools.
However, I think many of these high-end items (not just cameras) are sold to people who are not making a living from them.
For them, it is jewellery.
And if they can afford it, then let them get on with it.
I for one won't be holding them up in the queue.
 
GHP said:
If you are a professional, of course they are tools.
However, I think many of these high-end items (not just cameras) are sold to people who are not making a living from them.
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Yes. A pro needs to make a profit. And can do so just as well with much cheaper equipment. An amateur can spend what they want to. And often do buy stuff that a pro may want, but cant justify.
twist said:
Lol, its a good thing Mr. Stylish came to inform all the peasants.
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You actually can detect a connection between the Leica haters, and the lower classes.
 
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ianp5a said:
You see, the trouble with you naysayers on here, you don't appreciate style and quality.
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LOLZ


ianp5a said:
You actually can detect a connection between the Leica haters, and the lower classes.
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You're clearly on a sponsored "How much credibility can I lose in one thread" gig or something :)

As for quality... you can only go so far with that. I mean, Leica film cameras... fine, I get it. They're all still working after decades and decades... but this thing will be obsolete in 5 years... just what is the point? Thinking of digital cameras in the same way is foolhardy. No one's going to want to collect them like the old rangefinder cameras.
 
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I think I'm pretty good at seeing beauty in things who's primary design function is utilitarian (I once found myself staring at an old garden fork!) Leica cameras are usually a prime example of this, but that thing is just offensive to the eye as well as the wallet.
To say that it's the intangible things that make a Leica a Leica, (and by extension expensive) kind of proves the point the nay sayers are makeing.
 
Graham W said:
I think I'm pretty good at seeing beauty in things who's primary design function is utilitarian (I once found myself staring at an old garden fork!) Leica cameras are usually a prime example of this, but that thing is just offensive to the eye as well as the wallet.
To say that it's the intangible things that make a Leica a Leica, (and by extension expensive) kind of proves the point the nay sayers are makeing.
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Hence LOLZ above... it's a design travesty. Anyone who thinks that's a good piece of design clearly knows **** all about design. They're just assuming owning anything with Leica on it means they will be regarded as knowing good design by default. Nice try suckers... this thing is clearly designed by committee... or an idiot.
 
I've been following this thread mainly to see the replies. I'm a complete newbie so the name Leica holds nothing special to me. But it appears to be that Leica might be synonymous with say Ferrari or Bugatti - a status symbol. But in the same way owning a Ferrari won't make you a better driver, owning a Leica doesn't necessarily mean you'll take better photos.
 
Surely if you are one of these serious, next level photographers; you'd buy a medium format instead for the money? The new SL is very interesting, but I just can't see where the market for this camera is - the M mount rangefinders have a huge appeal because of the smaller form factor, manual experience & high quality lenses (even I lust after them),& is the only digital rangefinder on the market - if you want a digital mirroless slr styled camera there are plenty to choose from without having to spend anywhere near the silly asking price for the SL.
Zeiss also have a great reputation for making high quality lenses & have some very nice releases for the Sony A7 series that are much more reasonably priced.
 
ianp5a said:
Well obviously the "technology" will become obsolete. But that red dot, and what it stands for will last forever.
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I've got to be honest and thought you were being deliberately sarcastic in your posts but I'm starting to think you're not [emoji15]
 
Graham W said:
I think I'm pretty good at seeing beauty in things who's primary design function is utilitarian (I once found myself staring at an old garden fork!) Leica cameras are usually a prime example of this, but that thing is just offensive to the eye as well as the wallet..
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Could it be described as "arrogant" design? I guess they need to create a design that is, and will remain "different".
Graham W said:
To say that it's the intangible things that make a Leica a Leica, (and by extension expensive) kind of proves the point the nay sayers are makeing.
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Yes. Precisely.
 
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