Leica M9: experience so far

Wail said:
Interesting to note this memory anomaly, since this isn't the 1st memory anomaly you've had! Are Leica aware of any issues, or could this be due to the non-braded battery :shrug:?

Standard Leica battery installed. Strange.
 
Quality, I am jealous. Great pictures, so much detail, crisp. Then again I wouldn''t expect anything less from a 5k camera Haha. Nice one.
 
I had a fun run-out with the M9 at Twickenham on Sunday where I was covering the London leg of the international rugby 7s competition. I've got a write-up here if you're interested in the event itself.

It's safe to say that the M9 sucks for action photography, so I'm not really going to go into the pros and cons in any more detail than that.

However, as a second (or third) body for more documentary-style pictures around the periphery of the main event it was actually quite handy. I used it in this way a fair bit as I wandered about between games. It's always great taking pictures at events like this because everybody expects to be photographed and often ask you to take their picture, so it's carte-blanche to practice the with willing subjects.

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As I'm still a bit of a fumbler when it comes to focusing, I remain a bit uneasy about using the M9 in really fast, high pressure situations. I was happy to get 3 seconds of Steffon Armitage's time after an England match, and I nailed the first shot but then inexplicably decided to re-focus and take a second even though neither of us had moved position and I'll I'd done was go from portrait to landscape.

Consequently I cocked up the second shot which was well out of focus. I've noticed myself refocusing on every shot which is a habit I've got into using DSLRs where I use the back-button to focus and just get used to hitting the focus button for each & every shot whether anyone has moved or not. This was particularly the case when using wide apertures on my Canon 50 1.4 which always seemed a little haphazard in its focusing. So, I've got to break that habit with the M9 - when it's focused it's focused and there are no eletronics to cock it up for me.

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Still, I was confident enough to get a shot of the South African skipper Kyle Brown with the winner's trophy (but only after I'd nailed it with the 1DIV, 17-40 and 580 flash as well).

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And also got the winning team celebration with the M9 as well, again after zapping it with the 1D. In fact the M9 pics look a little duller than the 1D shots as I didn't use flash on the M9. In this situation, a bit of fill flash (I was set to -2 flash exposure comp) just brightens the shadows a bit and more importantly gives the catchlight in the eyes that gives the picture a bit more zap.

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It's clear that I need to practice more & more to get comfortable with the camera in a pressured environment. This is not a camera to just pick up and use instantly - you need to work at it. This is part of the fun/challenge for me that I really quite enjoy. I'm setting the bar quite high by using f/2 or f/2.8 pretty much all the time so focus is critical, but those sort of shots are what I bought the camera for in the first place. I know I'll miss a load of shots while I'm learning, but I'm OK with that.

So all in all, pretty much as I expected. I should be at the England v Barbarians game on Sunday so I'll try to be a bit more adventurous for you.
 
Standard Leica battery installed. Strange.
When the M9 first came out there were loads of wierd lockups and odd happening such as your 'full' report - most seemed to be due to battery 'issues', with replacement batteries curing a lot of it. Leica definitely know about it!
You might find less glitches with a replacement battery, (maybe other-brand if you can get them) just a thought.
 
Thanks for that - I'll look into it.
 
A couple of thoughts...

You say that the focusing is a challenge and whilst I can see that both focusing on a subject and zone focusing take practice maybe we're also a bit too critical these days? In the days when we couldn't pixel peep at 400% people used range finders (and other manual cameras) and captured some iconic images not all of which showed critical focus. Maybe we look too closely at technical aspects these days and would be better off looking at the whole image more?

Also, the Leica look... I suppose that if the Leica look survived different films (in the film days...) it must have been down to the lenses but now that we've gone digital I assume that the sensors characteristics add to the look too so I wonder how much of the Leica look would you get by using Leica lenses on a non Leica body, like a GF1?
 
I’d say it’s both the lens and the body which give it the “Leica” look. The lenses will have the sharpness and certain bokeh, but the body will process the image to give the colours and the “Leica” look.

Mount a Leica lens on a GF1 and you only get half the equation in terms of overall look, that’s not to mention not getting the overall range finder experience. I’ve mounted lenses on a GF1 and it’s fiddly to focus to say the least.

In coming years I think that the newer breed of more compact cameras with larger sensors just might eat away at the more technical reasons for choosing a Leica but they're not there yet.

I think this may have worked in Leica’s favour. With Evil cameras people have been experimenting with old manual lenses and this probably led them to do more research on rangefinders and eventually Leica. In the past couple of years there has certainly been a renaissance with rangefinders and the secondhand market is growing.

I’m surprised no company has made a digital rangefinder, I’m assuming that it’s technically easier than making a DSLR. Also the M mount is out of patent so there is nothing to stop a company from slapping a Sony sensor in a rangefinder body and using an M mount (obviously there’s more to it than my Blue Peter example). Actually Ricoh are doing one for there GXR body.
 
I’m surprised no company has made a digital rangefinder,...

You may not be aware that Leica were not the first company to make a digital range finder :) however I doubt that anyone will pay what they pay for a Leica for an Epson.

Anyway, I have owned range finders and I'm well aware of their user appeal but I am interested in how users feel about "the look" and the handling and user experience, lovely though it may be, is nothing to do with the look of the shots. Looking at film cameras the camera is the mechanism that transports and exposes the film so my thinking is that assuming that it does so correctly and consistently across different film types with their own look the Leica look if different and independent to the look of different films must be down to the lenses. However, these days we have a sensor rather than film so I wonder does this add to the look or is the Leica look still there despite moving from film to digital and is the look transferred to other cameras if the lenses are used on them?

I just thought that it was an interesting question.
 
On this whole "look" thing - I think that there's a level of people ascribing something akin to "personality" traits to the characteristics of cameras.

At the end of the day, it is the lens plus the body/sensor combo, and any in camera processing, that give any characteristics to an image. There's no doubt that the Zeiss 2/50 and M9 I've got have particular characteristics which they impart on the image. A Leica 50 f/2 would look similar, but render the image in a subtly different way.

Again, it's just the characteristics of the image, but people appear to like those characteristics for one reason or another. Possibly its the people who've spent £5-10k on their kit that espouse "the look" and other people who desire the red dot who lust after those particular image characteristics.

At the end of the day, a full frame camera with a 50 1/4 will delivery pretty similar results to another full frame camera with a 50 1.4 that 99.9% of the population will not be able to really distinguish.

Oh - also dont forget that the Leica processes pictures in camera differently depending on which lens is put on the camera. You can manually set the lens type and see the differences. Therefore Leica can use software in camera to tweak the images to give the Leica "look" characteristics as well, so there's another variable in there for you that makes a picture particularly Leica-like.
 
On this whole "look" thing - I think that there's a level of people ascribing something akin to "personality" traits to the characteristics of cameras.

At the end of the day, it is the lens plus the body/sensor combo, and any in camera processing, that give any characteristics to an image.

Leaving the user experience out of it for a moment that's the way that I'd look at it. Not that I haven't got an artistic soul :)
 
I think it was £650 ish from The Classic Camera in London. Super lens beautifully built and I like the focus "nub" rather than the Leica sticky out thing.
 
I photographed a prom last night with my partner in crime Lee. Usual affair - highly amusing, great kids and a bloody hard work.

I used the M9 in anger in what would usually be thought of as its "natural environment" i.e. candid people shots from 2-5 meters (though obviously its just a camera and you can do what you want with it). Over my shoulder was my 1DV with a 17-40 and a 580 flash as well.

I'm extremely pleased with the Leica pictures. Even though they are much noisier than the Canon at ISO 2500 (the highest it will go), with pretty much everything shot at f/2 the pictures really capture the mood of the event. I got lots of unobtrusive candid shots, as well as plenty of posed but relaxed pictures.

After spending the previous evening walking around my garden taking pictures of everything and anything at varying distances to practice focusing, I felt much more comfortable with focusing last night. Much quicker, and I'm starting to work it out by feel a lot more as well. I didn't get it right every time, but it's good enough not to worry about.

I processed all the M9 shots into black & whites in Lightroom and they have a real character to them. Sounds like I'm going off on one again, but they are far less clinical than the pictures from the Canon.

Lee and I usually set up a mini-studio with proper big lights, big white paper backdrop etc for these things. As usual it was hugely popular and we had to do some crowd control to keep things in order. I used the M9 for a few shots in the studio setup. With a pocket wizard in the hotshoe to control the lights, and shooting at f/8, ISO200, the results were superb. Sharpness from the Zeiss lens is just gob-smacking, and colour rendition is spot on. Really really good. The smallness of the camera makes interaction with the subjects a bit easier than with a big 1D in front of my face too.

So, overall, really really pleased with the M9. Sure I couldn't use it in the dark of the disco at ISO12800, but that's 1D territory. I'm liking this M9 better every time I use it.
 
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This is becoming a ritual, following this thread and living the M9 experience vicariously :thumbs:
 
Wail said:
This is becoming a ritual, following this thread and living the M9 experience vicariously :thumbs:

Agreed! I always wait for the updates. We do need more photos though! ;)
 
Sorry for the lack of pics - bit tricky for the prom with kids involved & all that. Mind you, they'll be all over Facebook in a bit so I dont suppose it'll make much difference. I may put some up from the prom in a few days.

I'm at Twickenham again on Sunday for the England v Barbarians game so will have another play about then & keep you posted.
 
Actually, here's a pic from last night that isn't of a youngster. Not the sharpest shot in the world at ISO2000 but gives you an idea what I'm talking about. You'd get a sharper more clinical shot with the 1D but the guy would likely have turned away or had a different expression as people just seem to smile when you point the Leica at them.

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Actually, here's a pic from last night that isn't of a youngster. Not the sharpest shot in the world at ISO2000 but gives you an idea what I'm talking about. You'd get a sharper more clinical shot with the 1D but the guy would likely have turned away or had a different expression as people just seem to smile when you point the Leica at them.

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I can't help but think that it is because it looks like a nice, old fashioned camera whereas a 1d with a big lump of an L lens stuck on the front looks like a weapon of war!
 
Thanks for that link. I might try to win that as I always like working with 2 bodies. A 35 1.4 on one and a 50 2 on the other. Nice.

Another day at Twickenham today for the England v Barbarians game. A bit of a second-string England team on show as they tried out some new talent in preparation for the world cup later in the year. As usual the Barbarians had a very nice international spread of talent including the formidable 6'8" viking Erik Lund.


England v Barbarians May 2011 by Tobers, on Flickr

I used the M9 simply as another body with a 50mm focal length alongside the 70-200 I had on a 1DIV (you know the routine by now). I'm now more than comfortable with the camera operation, exposure settings etc and will generally have a "sunny" setting and a "shady" setting which will have the aperture and ISO locked in and just varying the shutter speed. Seems like 1/3000th at ISO160 and f/2 is usual for sunny conditions, and 1/750th for shade on a bright day.


England v Barbarians May 2011 by Tobers, on Flickr

My focusing is improving with practice. I find that the rangefinder window and the viewfinder window tend to gather a lot of fingerprints which makes things rather more tricky - I'll have to keep an eye on this and keep them nice & clean.


England v Barbarians May 2011 by Tobers, on Flickr

I've also bought a new bag. Cant have a new camera without a bag. I've got a thing called a Timbuk2 extra small messenger bag into which I'll be popping an insert or two. It holds the M9 very nicely, will fit another couple of lenses, and also takes my iPad. Nice and light and not obtrusive or "look at me I've got a Billingham".

However, I didn't use it today as the M9 was in a Think Tank "Speed Changer" which goes on my belt - nice and diddy it takes the M9 with room to spare for a lens, bits & bobs, cloth etc.
 
I thought it would be worthwhile writing a bit about what the M9 feels like. Whilst of no consequence at all to image quality, the feel of a camera is quite important to me.

It's a fairly "dense" camera. Not an awful lot larger than the GF1, but significantly heavier. It has that reassuring solidity that you get from a really good quality piece of precision machinery. I can liken it to a number of things - I've got a lovely outside micrometer which is similarly precise, solid and smooth to use. Or a nice Snap-On socket set. It feels very good in the hand.

The main dial on the top for shutter speed is again precise and solid, moving in a very positive manner. The shutter release is a little stiff at the moment, but again is very tactile and encourages you to squeeze it rather than stab at it. I think this is something to do with how far it is raised from the body compared to other cameras where the shutter release is far more flush.

On the back, the control dial has more resistance than I expected, though is again precise and firm in its operation, with a feeling of weight behind it rather than being light and plasticky. All the buttons, whilst a bit small, are again nice and positive.

The textured faux leather (or is it real leather?) finish around the body is very satisfying to hold. Nicer than the smoother finish of the grey model I think as it lets you get a good grip on the camera.

Small things like the fit of the base plate to the body are also very tight and precise. It's a bit of a pain to remove the base plate to take the card out though but I guess it keeps with the "tradition" thing.

In a similar vein to the body, the Zeiss 2/50 Planar lens is fantastic to use. The aperture ring right on the end of the lens is very solid but easy to move, and again precise (bit of the theme of precision here). The focus ring is beautifully damped and so smooth, allowing very fine adjustment. The lens sticks out a bit more than I'd like however the camera remains nicely balanced when using a neck strap.

Versus my GF1, itself a reassuringly solid little thing, the M9 is a few leagues higher in terms of solidity & precision. Versus my 1DIV, things equal out a bit more. The 1D is a wonderfully made item with nicely damped, waterproofed buttons, solidly clicky control dials, and a metal body. It's probably best to think of the M9 as a strangely miniturised 1DIV stripped to the bare bones of functionality, with a further layer of surgical precision added to the build process.

I'm worried about scratching the paint on the top and bottom plate but I'll get over this I'm sure. The large flat surfaces are crying out to get scraped and scratched.

So, for people like me who like this sort of thing, the M9 is a wonderful thing just to hold in your hands and manipulate. I think this enhances the shooting experience, if not the image quality. However, if you really enjoy using something it will encourage you to use it more and get better.
 
I'm worried about scratching the paint on the top and bottom plate but I'll get over this I'm sure. The large flat surfaces are crying out to get scraped and scratched.

Many of us like to keep things in A1 condition but it's meant to be used and if you worry about this too much it could very well end up affecting how much and where you use it.
 
In the Leica world some folk wear it as a badge of honour that their camera is brassed and beaten and used looking. For me I like the build quality and a few blemishes here and there won't matter.
 
Small things like the fit of the base plate to the body are also very tight and precise. It's a bit of a pain to remove the base plate to take the card out though but I guess it keeps with the "tradition" thing.
Question: Are there no ports on the outside to plug a usb in (ie do you have to always remove the bottom plate and retrieve the card to get a the pics)?
 
Yep - there's a USB port which I could use but I prefer to take the card out and read it directly rather than go through the camera. That way there's one less link in the chain of things possibly going wrong (assuming a simple card reader is simpler and less likely to fail/run out of batteries than the camera).
 
I should also mention that Leica UK are sending me a couple of new memory cards after reading of the earlier memory card issues I described in this thread.

Nice service and unprompted by me.
 
I should also mention that Leica UK are sending me a couple of new memory cards after reading of the earlier memory card issues I described in this thread.

Nice service and unprompted by me.

That is great service :thumbs:; but in reality it is expected from a firm of this status.

Curious, are you still seeing these memory anomalies?
 
Tobers,

I'm really enjoying your unbiased, informative and ongoing review of the M9.

Can I ask you as you're out in all weathers how you're going to handle the issue of rain as the M9 is not weatherproof?

I'm currently looking at purchasing a M9 with 35 and 50/75 Summicrons for my wife. As you can imagine I'm also looking forward to using the Leica too!
 
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Aaaargh... I'm weakening. Tobers, your posts have been very engaging and together with my own trials and researches are pushing me over the edge. If anybody is tired of life Leica and would like to switch to Canon, I've put all my Canon kit up for swap in the Classifieds.
 
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That is great service :thumbs:; but in reality it is expected from a firm of this status.

Curious, are you still seeing these memory anomalies?

Hi - yes I agree, great service and so it should be. I've had no memory anomalies at all since changing to Sandisk Extreme III cards and everything is working perfectly.

Tobers,

I'm really enjoying your unbiased, informative and ongoing review of the M9.

Can I ask you as you're out in all weathers how you're going to handle the issue of rain as the M9 is not weatherproof?

I'm currently looking at purchasing a M9 with 35 and 50/75 Summicrons for my wife. As you can imagine I'm also looking forward to using the Leica too!

Mmmm - very nice indeed. Suggest you try out the Zeiss f/2 lenses before shelling out on the Summicrons - you could save a packet. I'd definitely get Leica Summiluxes if I wanted an aperture wider than f/2, but the Zeiss 2/50 I've got is just superb.

Regarding keeping it out of the rain - thankfully it hasn't rained on me yet :D. I guess I'll just whip it out of my pocket, take the pic, and pop it back again. Or have an umbrella.

Aaaargh... I'm weakening. Tobers, your posts have been very engaging and together with my own trials and researches are pushing me over the edge. If anybody is tired of life Leica and would like to switch to Canon, I've put all my Canon kit up for swap in the Classifieds.

You're doomed!!!!
 
It just occurred to me that I haven't posted a picture of the camera itself, so here you go.


Luscious by Tobers, on Flickr

Just today I've replaced the neck strap with a much simpler and more elegant wrist strap. The neck strap just annoyed me - loads of strap all over the place getting all twisted. Grrrr. The wrist strap is from an old camera or suchlike I think - I just had it hanging around. It's secured onto two small split-rings (mini key rings) which I got from Timpson's. These are my cheapest ever camera accessory, costing £0.00p. I'm much happier with the result and I find it easier to carry the camera in-hand with the wrist strap securing it, and it's a bit more discreet than having it bobbing around my neck.

Here's another pic from a few days back when I was out on my mountain bike. Just playing about with the shallow depth of field really, but I like it as it has a nice feel to it - out in the country, nice day, mountain bike - super. Edit: I should say that I had removed the lens from the camera and both were nicely wrapped and in a small rucksack. My thinking goes that if I fell off, the body/lens interface is the weak point and the leverage that the lens could exert on the body would cause all sorts of carnage, but separated things are much more compact and less likely to destroy each other.


Yeti by Tobers, on Flickr

I thought this guy looked quite cool so snapped his picture whilst he waited at a red light. He only got out of the car and came at me demanding in a very foreign accent that I delete the picture and asking who I was working for, as though Mossad were trawling the streets of London armed with Leica M9s. Ha ha! I walked backwards as we "discussed" the matter until we were a good 30 yards from his car, the lights had gone green, and all hell was breaking loose in the queue behind. I suggested he might want to get back in his car and go away before someone nicked it or he got lynched by cabbies. Most excellent.


Annoying by Tobers, on Flickr
 
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Love those last two snaps! Leica must be loving you - I think you've probably got everyone who has read this thread counting pennies and thinking "Hrmmm......"
 
I just taped over the M9 and Leica logos with black insulating tape. Now it looks cooooool! No name, no brand, just a small black camera. Yum.
 
Never understood the taping over the logo, some people even buy black dot Leica badges to replace the red ones.
 
It's a subtlety thing.
 
It might also make the camera less of a target for nasty people who have some idea that a Leica might be expensive and worth pinching but might not recognise it without the name badge.
 
Mmmm - very nice indeed. Suggest you try out the Zeiss f/2 lenses before shelling out on the Summicrons

I'm having a hard time selling the wonderful Zeiss lenses to my wife. I keep finding beautiful images taken with them but she wants Leica!

Trust me, the Summicrons are a compromise as she'd love the f1/4 Summilux lenses. They're all mad money but I feel the crons are better value with their f/2 apertures.
 
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