Leica II/III and copies

EdBray

EdBray

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Edward Bray
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Now I am firmly in the film camp (well apart from my H1D) I love the look of the 1930ish Leica II or III, there are obviously lots of copies and I was wondering if any of them are actually any good?

There are loads of modern copies of the Wartime Leica II/III on ebay, but whilst they look pretty, how functional are they? Something like this? Or this? or even this?

Some of the genuine Leica II/III bodies don't seem to cost too much, but that does not seem the case once you add a lens to the equation.

I've never owned anything like them, the nearest equivalent would be an Olympus 35RC that I still have in the garage somewhere, but it doesn't have the style of the Leica II/III. I am not keen on the newer Leica models, I don't think they have the style of the older I/II/IIIs.

So will they take reasonably decent images (obviously I'm not expecting Leica quality for £100) and give me a Leica type experience?
 
How about the Zorki 4K? The Jupiter lens isn't too bad at all, either :)
About £50. I wouldn't pay much more tbh. Sometimes listed as 'rare Leica copy' but although they're Leica styled, they're not rare!
A bit of a read-up on some potential pitfalls is recommended. The rangefinder focus adjustment is simple for vertical calibration but horizontal, I can't find any info for home adjustment. There's sometimes the issue of a broken firing mech, if the shutter speed is changed before winding on, too.
 
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Ed, if you fancy a play with a Zorki 4 I've got one you can borrow, that way you can decide if it's the sort of thing you're likely to use.
 
Thanks for the info Mike, I'll do a bit more reading, Nick appreciate the offer not quite sure yet if I want to take the chance if it can be easily damaged.
 
EdBray said:
Nick appreciate the offer not quite sure yet if I want to take the chance if it can be easily damaged.
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Ed, they're built like tanks, they probably even share some components with the T-54. The only thing to remember is to make sure the shutter is cocked before you change the shutter speed.

Anyway the offer is there, just let me know.
 
I've been spending some time reading about cla of these cameras and the "never change speed with uncocked shutter" rule is overstated. you most likely won't kill the camera, but you will have weird exposure times until you reset the shutter alignment. However, this seems to be the case for zorki 4/4k and fed 2 mechanisms. Other variants may well be as fragile as rumored. My 4k has a slow 2nd shutter so is off for a cla with a nice man in the netherlands. I'll update the thread when it comes back!
 
While the Zorki 4K is probably the best of the soviet RF's, it's quite a big heavy beast for what it is, need a larger coat pocket to carry it around, or a neck-strap. If weight isn't an issue then it's probably the best to go for.

If you want a proper Leica style copy then go for a Zorki-1, it was made later than the FED-1 series so a better chance of getting a working one; i have a Zorki 1B (there are models A through E, the differences are minor), that i bought from one of those russian/ukraine outfits on ebay. If you want a combined RF type then have a look at the FED-2 series as well, has a interesting look to it and is surprisingly fun to use.

Here's a set of photos i've taken with the Zorki 1B, the first 5 in the set are taken with the Industar-22 50mm f/3.5 collapsible lens, the last 6 are with the Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 lens. The Industar-22 is a good lens and nice to have as it makes putting the camera in a pocket much easier, the Jupiter-8 is tack sharp the photos in my set don't do it justice. The black Jupiter-8 is cheaper to buy as it was the kit lens for the Zorki 4/4K, if you can find a chrome one for under £50 then it looks much better on the camera, the Jupiter-8 also takes 40.5mm filters so that helps as well.

I've used a Zorki 1B, Fed-2C, Zorki 4, Zorki 4K and while the others are technically better cameras i always prefer using the Zorki -1, even with it's awkward bottom loading, separate focus and viewfinder, 1/500th top speed, knob wind, no flash socket, and no strap lugs (i use a black rapid copy in the tripod mount for a neck-strap as a workaround), it just has a certain charm to it i prefer over the others.

Also none of these cameras has a light meter so you'll need one of those as well, i just use a little Gossen Sixtino selenium meter when i'm out with mine, can get them for under a tenner usually. Could go for a Weston Master V or some other meter if you prefer.
 
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Thanks to all for the replies. Just one other question, how noisy are they in use?

I was in the process of buying this one last night when someone jumped in ahead of me. This is the style of body I want with the collapsible lens. I do not like the various wood covered versions though. I will keep searching for something similar.
 
What about those ones? There are plenty of them on eBay and it's proper Leica not copy? The selling this one has lots more and I bought quite a few MF gear from him after recommendations from guys on MFLenses forum so he seems reliable.


EdBray said:
I was in the process of buying this one last night when someone jumped in ahead of me. This is the style of body I want with the collapsible lens. I do not like the various wood covered versions though. I will keep searching for something similar.
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Thanks Alex, I will bear them in mind, but they are copies too.

I'm sort of leaning to buying a real Leica now.
 
EdBray said:
Thanks Alex, I will bear them in mind, but they are copies too.

I'm sort of leaning to buying a real Leica now.
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Be careful where you buy it, there are a lot of the Eastern European sellers converting the copies into Leica "replicas". When I was in Bulgaria a few years back it was also common to see "Leicas" with Swastika logos on them for sale.

If they (and all the similarly-marked wrist and pocket watches on sale in the area) were genuine, then just about every German soldier that passed through must have been relieved of his camera and watch by the locals :lol:
 
Yes, I am struggling to decide what to do. I really like the style of the older Leica IIIf but have not seen many true copies of them. If I buy one of them I will probably buy it from a UK shop/seller, but I am now thinking about spending what it would cost on a Mint 50mm f1.4 to go on my Pentax LX, I mean really, how many film cameras can you use?

I've currently got, an Olympus OM4T, OM4Ti, OM2SP, 4x OM2n and OM1n plus Pentax LX, Super A, Super Program 2x ME Supers and a Spotmatic SP, plus 3x 16/32 backs for my Hasselblad H1. It takes me an age before I go out to decide what outfit to take, a bit like a woman deciding what shoes to wear.
 
If you like that style then get it Ed, if they sold an all black one, body & lens i'd buy one myself but i've yet to find one. As for the noise, they use a cloth focal plane shutter so it has a certain clunk to it which i like, at least as loud as a modern DSLR, it's not stealthy if that's what you are looking for. I did get my Zorki 1B for £85 from that moscowStore on eBay, delivery took a few weeks as you might expect from Russia but it arrived well packaged, camera a little grubby but i knew that from the pictures anyway so no problem.

Yes beware of the fake Leica (and yes that link dalex is a fake Leica, no Leica ever left the factory looking like that), unless you are a Leica geek you'd be hard pressed to tell the difference with some copies though. A working old Leica III series will still set you back a fair amount, about £500 or more for a body, it's pretty steep for what it is, you could get any FED/Zorki body (Zorki 3M is my favourite cost no object) you wanted, a Jupiter-8 50mm, Juptier-9 85mm, Jupiter-12 35mm and a universal finder for half the cost of a Leica body.

Those "new" FED-Zorki cameras are new-old stock meaning they've been sitting in a warehouse since the cold war, so they'll be cosmetically mint but i'm not overly sure about the working condition, i've bought a new-old stock lens once and while it was mint outside still had fungus on the lens :( Might be fine though, depends how it was stored.

Edit: Looking at what you already have i doubt a rangefinder is really needed, maybe nice as a collectable or a bit of fun. An OM-2n isn't that much bigger than a Zorki 1, probably lighter, a Zorki 3-6 or a FED 2-5 are much bigger than those Pentax/Olympus SLR's and much less equipped. I can take a picture of my Zorki 1 next to my Pentax ME Super if you want a quick size guide to compare.
 
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MW Classic have a IIIf here
 
Cheers again all for the comments, I'll have to have a serious think. :thinking:
 
Sorry to have messed you all around, I decided to by a nice Pentax SMC 50mm f1.4 for my LX this afternoon instead.
 
If the advice and info given helped lead you make a decision that was right for you, then I don't think any of us will feel messed around :)
 
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