Legislation for gay marriage

tiler65 said:
Good, 'cause I am a member of the Barry White Fan Club!
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sorry but that one is not acceptable as it discriminates against people who aren't good in bed.

It was a very painful letter when I was rejected
 
I wonder what The Church will do with all the clergy, some of which are senior members, who will now happily marry same-sex couples in their Church.

This could get messy! :lol:
 
Is a shop that only sells size 16 and upwards, discriminating against smaller sizes?
 
mikebeecham said:
Now, being discussed in the American court system at the moment is the issue of some crazy paedophiles who are arguing for certain rights, using the same argumentation of 'I cant help how I am, I was born this way'. Now, of course this churns our stomach and rightly so. But what if, in some way, legalisation is passed because it is recognised that we dont have a right to intolerance based on how someone was born? If they cant help how they feel who are we to tell them they are wrong.
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its a different issue - paedophillia is wrong in the sameway that rape is wrong, because it doesnt involve two consenting partners (children being unable to give consent)

It is closer in comparrison to someone being born with irational homicidal urges, or kleptomaina etc

Relationships between two consenting adults are not a comparable regardless of the sexual orientation of the partners concerned
 
tiler65 said:
Is a shop that only sells size 16 and upwards, discriminating against smaller sizes?
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no more than a shop that only sells clothes up to 16 is discriminatinf against larger sizes

also, physical size isn't on the protected equality characteristic list.

men and womens clothes shops discriminate against gender though!
 
joescrivens said:
no more than a shop that only sells clothes up to 16 is discriminatinf against larger sizes

also, physical size isn't on the protected equality characteristic list.

men and womens clothes shops discriminate against gender though!
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No they don't. No-one said women can't shop in a menswear store and wear what they buy....and vice-versa :D
 
mikebeecham said:
Now, being discussed in the American court system at the moment is the issue of some crazy paedophiles who are arguing for certain rights, using the same argumentation of 'I cant help how I am, I was born this way'. Now, of course this churns our stomach and rightly so. But what if, in some way, legalisation is passed because it is recognised that we dont have a right to intolerance based on how someone was born? If they cant help how they feel who are we to tell them they are wrong.
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you cant be prosecuted for having pedophilic tendencies - only on acting on them.
 
tiler65 said:
Is a shop that only sells size 16 and upwards, discriminating against smaller sizes?
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now your just being silly - next you'll be asking if a butcher is discriminating against vegetarians

(the answer is no because neither smaller sizes nor vegetarians are a protected group under the equality legislation )
 
joescrivens said:
no more than a shop that only sells clothes up to 16 is discriminatinf against larger sizes

also, physical size isn't on the protected equality characteristic list.

men and womens clothes shops discriminate against gender though!
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How do I get on that list....it sounds cool!
 
big soft moose said:
its a different issue - paedophillia is wrong in the sameway that rape is wrong, because it doesnt involve two consenting partners (children being unable to give consent)

It is closer in comparrison to someone being born with irational homicidal urges, or kleptomaina etc

Relationships between two consenting adults are not a comparable regardless of the sexual orientation of the partners concerned
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Sure, but my actual point remains true. If culture changes at any time, in any way, for any reason you will have to accept that change regardless of your viewpoint. And, in the case that we see currently, if you do not change then you will be labelled as a bigot and intolerant.

The mass opinion will rule, regardless of how you feel about it or whether you agree with it.
 
big soft moose said:
now your just being silly - next you'll be asking if a butcher is discriminating against vegetarians

(the answer is no because neither smaller sizes nor vegetarians are a protected group under the equality legislation )
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Respond to post #242, please.
 
Its funny how this all boils down to equality - need to have a look at what God says on the subject. I mean that's the nitty gritty of the matter.

Everyone should have equality under the equalities act however....

Marriage is a divine institution and not human invention. So if the union falls outside of the biblical description of marriage it cannot be blessed by God - simple really. Just because a member of a church does a service and says all the right things - that does not mean its blessed by God either.

In the final analysis Man can propose and scheme and plan anything they want to - God will not be in it if its not His divine will. As I understand it.

We all need to discern Gods will for each of our own lives. This is done by reading the Bible and spending time in prayer for most Christians. As I understand it.


This is as I understand the situation - from the Biblical point of view.
 
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mikebeecham said:
Sure, but my actual point remains true. If culture changes at any time, in any way, for any reason you will have to accept that change regardless of your viewpoint. And, in the case that we see currently, if you do not change then you will be labelled as a bigot and intolerant.
.
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no - you will remain entitled to your view point - you will only be labled an intolerant bigot if your actions discriminate against those who are seen as societally acceptable.
 
I wonder if some people will avoid getting married (or even worshipping) in Churches where same-sex marriages are performed.

It's very sad but wouldn't surprise me at all.
 
LASTOLITE said:
Its funny how this all boils down to equality - need to have a look at what God says on the subject. I mean that's the nitty gritty of the matter.

Everyone should have equality under the equalities act however....

Marriage is a divine institution and not human invention. So if the union falls outside of the biblical description of marriage it cannot be blessed by God - simple really. Just because a member of a church does a service and says all the right things - that does not mean its blessed by God either.

In the final analysis Man can propose and scheme and plan anything they want to - God will not be in it if its not His divine will. As I understand it.

We all need to discern Gods will for each of our own lives. This is done by reading the Bible and spending time in prayer for most Christians. As I understand it.


This is as I understand the situation - from the Biblical point of view.
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but as I said earlier, the things the church are saying god says aren't really are they. They are just some peoples interpretation which they wrote down. There is no one message from god, faith is how you interpret it - hence why there are multiple religions all supporting "gods message" yet all of them are different messages
 
LASTOLITE said:
Its funny how this all boils down to equality - need to have a look at what God says on the subject. I mean that's the nitty gritty of the matter.

Everyone should have equality under the equalities act however....

Marriage is a divine institution and not human invention. So if the union falls outside of the biblical description of marriage it cannot be blessed by God - simple really. Just because a member of a church does a service and says all the right things - that does not mean its blessed by God either.

In the final analysis Man / creation can propose and scheme and plan anything they want to - God will not be in it if its not His divine will. As I understand it.

We all need to discern Gods will for each of our own lives. This is done by reading the Bible and spending time in prayer for most Christians. As I understand it.


This is as I understand the situation - from the Biblical point of view.
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your basic premise if flawed though - marriage is a legal ceremony , not one that is only the province of the church.

I am an aetheist (well , that isnt quite true, I believe in a higher power, but not in organised religion) , my wife agnostic, but we still had a civil wedding ceremony and are legally maried with no involvement of the church/god at all ( I have absolutely zero interest in being 'blessed by god' - I would hope that a supreme diety has better things to do than worry about blessing man or indeed being worshipped)

why should a gay couple be denied the same right ?
 
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joescrivens said:
but as I said earlier, the things the church are saying god says aren't really are they. They are just some peoples interpretation which they wrote down. There is no one message from god, faith is how you interpret it - hence why there are multiple religions all supporting "gods message" yet all of them are different messages
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Are you saying Allah doesn't exist?
 
LASTOLITE said:
Its funny how this all boils down to equality - need to have a look at what God says on the subject. I mean that's the nitty gritty of the matter.

Everyone should have equality under the equalities act however....

Marriage is a divine institution and not human invention. So if the union falls outside of the biblical description of marriage it cannot be blessed by God - simple really. Just because a member of a church does a service and says all the right things - that does not mean its blessed by God either.

In the final analysis Man can propose and scheme and plan anything they want to - God will not be in it if its not His divine will. As I understand it.

We all need to discern Gods will for each of our own lives. This is done by reading the Bible and spending time in prayer for most Christians. As I understand it.


This is as I understand the situation - from the Biblical point of view.
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But you could also argue it must be gods will to allow these marriages in the first place or it wouldn't have gotten as far as it has done.
 
mr pot , i'd like you to meet mr kettle (be warned he's a minority)
 
big soft moose said:
no - you will remain entitled to your view point - you will only be labled an intolerant bigot if your actions discriminate against those who are seen as societally acceptable.
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Ahhh ok...so you're absolutely entitled to your viewpoint. However, you are not allowed to live in accordance with your viewpoint if it directly cuts across the majority rule?
 
pepi1967 said:
But you could also argue it must be gods will to allow these marriages in the first place or it wouldn't have gotten as far as it has done.
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Not sure mate - maybe it is, I doubt that it could be though, maybe just mans free will in operation and God has yet to step in.
 
big soft moose said:
your basic premise if flawed though - marriage is a legal ceremony , not one that is only the province of the church.
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No, marriage as a legal ceremony in the grand scheme of things is a relatively new position.

Marriage (as I understand it) is a covenantal thing, not a 'legal' thing. Dont forget that as we've already established marriage goes back further than the 'Church of England'.
 
big soft moose said:
your basic premise if flawed though - marriage is a legal ceremony , not one that is only the province of the church.

I am an aetheist (well , that isnt quite true, I believe in a higher power, but not in organised religion) , my wife agnostic, but we still had a civil wedding ceremony and are legally maried with no involvement of the church/god at all ( I have absolutely zero interest in being 'blessed by god' - I would hope that a supreme diety has better things to do than worry about blessing man or indeed being worshipped)

why should a gay couple be denied the same right ?
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I didn't say they should:shrug:
 
mikebeecham said:
Ahhh ok...so you're absolutely entitled to your viewpoint. However, you are not allowed to live in accordance with your viewpoint if it directly cuts across the majority rule?
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That's right, which is why gay folk have been campaigning for equality for so long. They got there in the end.
 
Just a thought, the churches say it cant bless same sex marriages as it's not right in gods eyes, so if good created us why would he have allowed this traight in humans?
 
tiler65 said:
Are you saying Allah doesn't exist?
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There can only be one God - you need to discern for yourself who that one true God is. I mean there can only be one CEO one PM one KING the buck has to stop somewhere - why would you think there are many Gods - there can only be one - who that is is up to you to discern. from that point on you can then set out your plan for life. Then you can live your life by that. Then you can see how the world is going compared to how you believe it should be according to the scriptures you hold dear to your faith.

As I understand that is.
 
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mikebeecham said:
Ahhh ok...so you're absolutely entitled to your viewpoint. However, you are not allowed to live in accordance with your viewpoint if it directly cuts across the majority rule?
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If by majority rule you mean law, then that's correct. We probably all have to do things we don't 100% believe in (like pay taxes).
 
People seem to be forgetting that this isn't set to become law yet. It has passed the first big hurdle in a vote by MPs but it still has to get approval from the House of Lords. For the time being, nothing has changed.
 
LASTOLITE said:
There can only be one God - you need to discern for yourself who that one true God is. I mean there can only be one CEO one PM one KING the buck has to stop somewhere - why would you think there are many Gods - there can only be one - who that is is up to you to discern. from that point on you can then set out your plan for life. Then you can live your life by that. Then you can see how the world is going compared to how you believe it should be according to the scriptures you hold dear to your faith.

As I understand that is.
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Why? Who decided that? (Serious question)
 
Davec223 said:
Just a thought, the churches say it cant bless same sex marriages as it's not right in gods eyes, so if good created us why would he have allowed this traight in humans?
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Very fair point Dave - difficult to answer too!
 
joescrivens said:
any group is ok as long as it doesn't discriminate. If it discriminates then no, its not ok under the equality act.
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So whats the point of a Black group like the Association of Black Lawyers, why not just call it Association of lawyers?
 
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