Legal help:(

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Groucho said:
I am not a lawyer, but i have to read and sign contracts in my job in the construction industry.

But from my experience and understanding i believe the term "unless otherwise stated" means that this is the clients standard form of contract and any amendments or variance to this standard form, must be included on the contract, in other words when the contract says unless otherwise stated it must show in writing what is actually otherwise stated, not what she may decide to otherwise say at a later time.
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+1
 
BouncyMelons said:
I'm still interested as to why Blinkerz does not just hand over a few pics from that first shoot and be done with it?
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Cause he feels like he's getting ripped off!
 
But that is life, we have times where we get ripped off and have to put it all down to experience. This is one of those instances. It's a case of having to suck it up and make sure never to sign anything like this ever again!
 
I'm with Zoe.

Sorry but if you are going to sign away copyright you will get ripped off. Hence all the lively debate we had last year about switching of copyright to the person commissioning!

This is exactly why is should rest with the photographer and why it's a good idea to make sure that any trading done on the copyright is done properly.
 
Unless there are more page(s) to the contract, then the client has not otherwise stated any thing on the contract.

Therefore the written contract stands as it is with the otherwise stated section being irrelevant as there is nothing otherwise stated on the contract.(Stated being the operative word)

If she had stated on the contract that she reserves the right at a later date not give any commission at all, then that would have legal standing, and you would have to abide by it as you knowingly signed a document with this proviso clearly stated on the contract.

From my experience of reading thousands of contracts and being involved numerous contractual disputes, anything that forms part of a contractual agreement between 2 parties Must must be in writing on the contract.:)
 
Groucho said:
Unless there are more page(s) to the contract, then the client has not otherwise stated any thing on the contract.

Therefore the written contract stands as it is with the otherwise stated section being irrelevant as there is nothing otherwise stated on the contract.
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Ahh got you now :)

That's actually what I meant but you just said it a WHOLE lot better :)

Basically it is all rather irrelevant other than the bit about the copyright :)
 
After due consideration I think I'd tell her to **** off followed by a cheery 'my hard drive has failed so see you in court'. That "contract" is a joke and she hasn't signed it anyway, therefore it's probably worthless. I can appreciate your worry and concern over this but seriously, b*ll*cks to it. Give her nothing.


(I should stress that I have no legal expertise whatsoever and can be a stubborn chap, so my reaction may not be best for you:thumbs: )
 
I'm new to this but can't you put a water mark on the pictures to say who took them.
 
If MISS MODEL is so hung up on the details of the contract by stating that she has a get-out clause in the last line for payment, then you can do the same .. nowhere in that contract does it specify that the pictures have to be of her. Didn't you do a pet portrait shoot the same day and I'm sure she'd appreciate the humour of receiving a few doggy pics ;)
 
Well to sign over copyright then the Fee must have been GOOD so Have you been paid?
The contract says
"will be used exclusively on Miss MODELS website www.****** unless otherwise stated by Miss MODEL."

SO how can she make money it says "used exclusively" she cant sale them and you got not otherwise statement...
So she gets web size images.
 
GarynLea said:
If MISS MODEL is so hung up on the details of the contract by stating that she has a get-out clause in the last line for payment, then you can do the same .. nowhere in that contract does it specify that the pictures have to be of her. Didn't you do a pet portrait shoot the same day and I'm sure she'd appreciate the humour of receiving a few doggy pics ;)
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Some wildlife beaver shots might be better suited;):exit:
 
ruvor said:
make her fat and ugly with pp and send websize jpgs.
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Too much effort to make her fat on a days shoot worth of photos I would think. I also wouldn't compromise your photography in that way, or by blurring them.

MagicMynx said:
hehe - would it be in accordance with the contract for the images to be like 200xwhatever px LOL.....
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That is what I would also suggest. I would send a usable size (for web only), just so she can't slag you off to other potential clients/models. I would do a higher res 900 longest side, DPI 72, compression 3/4.

realspeed said:
Dogfish

Its a disposable one. what camera is going to be used next time? and yet worrying about commission?

My advice is to spend a few thousands of pounds get decent gear then start worrying about what to charge
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As stated already (I'd clicked multiple quotes option) it's a joke. I think Blinkrz is trying to say, 'Does it matter, what camera and lens I use?'.


BouncyMelons said:
I'm still interested as to why Blinkerz does not just hand over a few pics from that first shoot and be done with it?
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Why should she get something for nothing. I have an idea who the model is, if so, these pictures will end up on a subscription website. She will make money from these. Why should he let her if she doesn't play ball.
Perhaps best just to hand over the pictures and be done with it. Just be careful in the future. Hindsight is a great thing.

Is it the model in this thread, Perhaps you don't want to confirm either way.
 
Mu initial thought would be to tell the model to stick her threats and demands up her @rse. The contract is far from legally binding so she wouldn't have a hope of taking you to court for compensation.

However, if you really believe that this model is to be successful in the future and your photos could potentially be seem by many people then I'd recommend sending them to the model as you originally agreed to. Although the agreement is not legally binding it does state that the images will be used exclusively on the models website so if you see them appearing elsewhere then you can claim a breech of copyright either with the model or the owner of the other website. Also, if she does put the images on her website then the agreement states that you will be paid 10% of the total revenue from the site. if she's selling lots of photos then it could potentially be a nice little earner.

In short the contract isn't worth the paper it's written on so you need to make a personal choice. Do you want to be harsh and withold the images from the model or take the chance on maybe getting paid for their use.

Your work is outstanding Tristan so if you are hoping to get in to the industry and make a good living out of it then you need to be concerned for your reputation. Taking a hit to your pride now may be beneficial in the long run. Don't lose sleep over it, just do whatever makes you most comfortable.
 
we all read stories these days of claims and lawsuits taken out for the most ridiculous things, but obviously they're only the ones that make the press. i think in the main, most claims are dealt with with a strong element of 'common sense' and reading about this particular course of events it seems to me that you (OP) accepted this agreement to take photographs of a model in return for payment in the form of commission. Once the model told you she no longer requires your services, she has then lost her right to the pictures taken by you.
this would be like taking your car to a garage for repairs and then half way through them fixing it, you say... oh sorry... i don't want you to do anymore work, i've got someone else to do it... would they want paying for their work so far? course they would... and if you didn't pay they'd take out any parts they'd fitted and tell you to sod off.
i'd tell her to sod right off and stop trying to take the pee!!
 
All pictures and videos taken by MR PHOTOGRAPHER will be used exclusively on Miss MODELS website www.****** unless otherwise stated by Miss MODEL.
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Another thought, reading the above, I would take down the image posted here PDQ, IF that contract proves to be legal, you are breaking the terms.
 
Pete Allen said:
Another thought, reading the above, I would take down the image posted here PDQ, IF that contract proves to be legal, you are breaking the terms.
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In post #1

blinkerz said:
...and i cant use any images for my portfolio, apart from one which i got permission over email before this arrangement got canceled..
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he had permission for that one.
 
-Rob- said:
Your work is outstanding Tristan so if you are hoping to get in to the industry and make a good living out of it then you need to be concerned for your reputation. Taking a hit to your pride now may be beneficial in the long run. Don't lose sleep over it, just do whatever makes you most comfortable.
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:clap:
Nicely put Rob :thumbs:
 
The contract would get laughed out of court. I wouldn't worry at all. However, if you would like to turn it around and try and make something off it - have a proper contract re-written with proper terms stating that you will get commission and have her sign it before handing over the photos. Give her the choice - either sign the new contract and pay up, or do her worst. Either way, you can sleep easy.
 
Just finished reading this thread and here is my summing up. I photographed a band recently and gave them all the photos free of charge, as I was just experimenting and I didnt like the shots anyway. No copyright contract, nothing. I thought nothing of it (even though I am familiar with said issues and contracts). But I discovered that they used an image from the shoot for a promotion poster and didnt credit me, in fact they credited somebody else! Then, they contacted me again, and asked me to do another shoot. When I mentioned the "illegal" use of the earlier image I realised they were genuinly confused (they are very young and inexperienced) as there was another guy with a consumer camera shooting away that day also, and they thought it was his photo. Why he didnt correct their mistake I dont know. I have decided to shoot them again anyway (I can see the replies to this bit coming fast and thick, but trust me I know what I'm doing) , but you can bet all your grannies that all rights isssues will be fully explained to them this time, with fully signed contracts for all and sundry. I will NEVER be that stupid again (although my girlfriend says this is plainly untrue).
Therefore, my advice, as from others before, is: just dont so it again and learn to spot these types before they cause a problem in the first place.
 
And to put you at ease a bit...I had a contract that was well written over 4 pages long and was air tight for my web design work. I had it checked over by a solicitor and he pulled it apart and showed me how it could have been dismissed over and over in court. It has now been amended :)

So that was a highly professional, seemingly solid contract that was shredded - I doubt this badly worded (written by a 5 year old perhaps?) contract between 2 names (not people, since no address or other identifying features are there) would even make it to a court room.
 
She has the use of the images for her website period. Its now a bit of a mess and do you think she would really honour the 10% commission given she has a get out clausefor this :suspect:
I think it may be a different story if she were using the images other thanon her website. :thinking:
I've only used a few tfp models but they have always signed my form and not vice versa.
 
the understanding i have is that to be legally binding, both parties would have to sign it,
if you didnt see her sign it then it may not be legal, also, i am concerned that it is worded in a way which implies all your work after the specified date is copyrighted by her.
i would say, you need to speak to your solicitor, soon.
regards.
 
blinkerz said:
she didnt sign either of them, of course she could go back over hers and sign, but mine is left blank
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If she hasnt signed your copy, then shouldnt it be void?
Hmm
If not just advertise yourself on the photographs with a hug opactied logo and copyright sign. Also photoshop her to make her look fat and revolting.
Lastly the contract doesn't look very legal to me :S I don't think it has any real substance. And if all else fails, you lost the images and your hardrive is broken. Sorted.
 
Normal caveat - not a lawyer - but a couple of things jump out.

Firstly, for a contract to be valid there must be what's called consideration, which is that both sides must get something from it. It doesn't have to be fair - that's not for the courts to decide, after all - but it does have to exist. If you use your professional expertise to create photos of her, then you must get something in return for her to have the photos according to the contract. 10% of the commission would do that probably, but you would have to receive that or the contract is invalid. If there will be no commission, as the website won't exist, then there's no consideration.

The other thing - and I'm relying on my memory here, and unable to find corroboration on Google - is that I'm not sure you can legally assign ownership of photos to someone else, only the copyright. This means that if you don't want to give her the photos, then I don't think you have to. It just means you wouldn't be able to use them.

Anyway ... food for thought, and might help. Good luck!
 
As a matter of fact, if you were to lose all the images, as she didn't pay for your time, the only way of 'refunding' her would be to shoot her again. From what I've read about her, I can't see that happening!
 
The way she conducted herself and the attitude is what has really making me not want to give her something for nothing. After she canceled the 2nd shoot which i had the time/date and place etc.., she still wanted me to go up and meet and hand over the disc of the images, one of the nice texts i got was

' There's no neogation on days, i need those images by sunday.. i don't have time to be chasing up things like this you would of been coming to the shoot on sunday morning so you can meet sunday morning...'

I went to london on the sunday, just to keep the peace and the fact i was still working for her. Once i met the videographer from before i found out the shoot was carrying on etc., had his camcorder etc.. and ready to meet her and be with another photographer..
 
Have a hard drive failure and tell the cheeky cow to **** off. This is seriously not worth the grief you are getting.
 
blinkerz said:
The way she conducted herself and the attitude is what has really making me not want to give her something for nothing. After she canceled the 2nd shoot which i had the time/date and place etc.., she still wanted me to go up and meet and hand over the disc of the images, one of the nice texts i got was

' There's no neogation on days, i need those images by sunday.. i don't have time to be chasing up things like this you would of been coming to the shoot on sunday morning so you can meet sunday morning...'

I went to london on the sunday, just to keep the peace and the fact i was still working for her. Once i met the videographer from before i found out the shoot was carrying on etc., had his camcorder etc.. and ready to meet her and be with another photographer..
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:lol: Tell her to **** off. Serious.

Gary.
 
As said from the start. Tell her to get on her bike. Give her nothing.
 
Its a contract between two people, she never signed it, therefore its null and void as it doesn't contain both partie's signature....

Right?

You can't squabble over the terms of a contract when the contract itself is void or not legal because its not signed?

I mean a contract between two parties, that is only signed by one, is not really a contract at all...
 
over and under expose the lot, change her eye colour on one eye, like the low res idea too.

depends how much you want rid of her. by the sounds of ot bet you contacted other people would find she is doing the same to others. the promise of future business can sometimes make you think people are decent and honest.
 
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