Legal help:(

Status
Not open for further replies.
oh, I missed that last bit... so she has a copy of the contract and just hasn't signed it yet? Interesting.

Anyway, you have the 10% that you can gain on. And look at it this way, she can do nothing about you using them on your website. As well as you don't sell them you can take a photo of anybody and display them as you wish. Talking through her hat she is.
 
Just give here the pictures with a massive copyright over it with your name and website. :)
 
Send bad quality edits, and seek legal advise to draw up a proper contract form for next customer. Never ever give up the copyright. Even getty doesn't take the copyright, why should she?

P.S. How about JPEG2000 format compressed to 80kb each?
 
I might be wrong, but for legally binding contracts, don't you need people watching you BOTH sign and date, together? Seems a bit odd that she didn't sign your copy.. Are you sure both contracts were exactly the same? Only.. If yours is only signed by you, it's not binding. But if hers has your signature, she's signed at a later date & could have something different written up all together :shrug:
definitely see a solicitor!
 
blinkerz said:
she deffiently said she wont be paying me 10 percent or any other fee for the days work.
Click to expand...

Job done then. Keep the pics, do what you want with them. She's not holding up her end so the deal's off surely?

EDIT: I'm an idiot, we've done that bit haven't we. With the whole, unless otherwise stated part of it.
 
Despite all the wrong doings and bad publicity in the Shenanigans at the SWPP thread, businesses /organisations like these offer a legal helpline to it's members. Despite the criticisms of the SWPP, some perhaps I agree with, some are too minor to worry about, but for around £100 per anum, joining an organisation like this will get you some professional legal advice. With a few other perks, probably worth the money IMHO.
 
louise-knight said:
I might be wrong, but for legally binding contracts, don't you need people watching you BOTH sign and date, together? Seems a bit odd that she didn't sign your copy.. Are you sure both contracts were exactly the same? Only.. If yours is only signed by you, it's not binding. But if hers has your signature, she's signed at a later date & could have something different written up all together :shrug:
definitely see a solicitor!
Click to expand...

Not all contracts require a witness. For example, if you buy double glazing you sign a Contract of Sale and that is not witnessed.

There only needs to be one signed contract for it to be legally binding (assuming the contract is legal in the first place).
 
Defiance

She has to sign both copies to be legal not just hers or both parties have to have a similar copy.

Anyway how on earth can you do a professional shoot with a Kodak fun time disposable camera costing presumably around £2 at least no more than £8. Its a joke and a windup. Thats what the OP claims to have

Realspeed
 
realspeed said:
Defiance

She has to sign both copies to be legal not just hers or both parties have to have a similar copy.

Anyway how on earth can you do a professional shoot with a Kodak fun time disposable camera costing presumably around £2 at least no more than £8. Its a joke and a windup. Thats what the OP claims to have

Realspeed
Click to expand...

Checkout his web site - he gets quite good results with it ;)
 
Dogfish

Its a disposable one. what camera is going to be used next time? and yet worrying about commission?

My advice is to spend a few thousands of pounds get decent gear then start worrying about what to charge
 
Defiance said:
Simply not true.

She could claim a verbal contract for a start.

She could then point to the single signed agreement as proof.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

You may have also signed to transfer all your possessions to her on the other copy if you didn't read it.

Contracts are very important yet boring thing. They must be read and fully understood every single time.
 
realspeed said:
Dogfish

Its a disposable one. what camera is going to be used next time? and yet worrying about commission?

My advice is to spend a few thousands of pounds get decent gear then start worrying about what to charge
Click to expand...

I think the camera listed is done so in jest.

I have seen Tristan armed with camera at a meet and it's far from a disposable one :)
 
realspeed said:
Dogfish

Its a disposable one. what camera is going to be used next time? and yet worrying about commission?

My advice is to spend a few thousands of pounds get decent gear then start worrying about what to charge
Click to expand...

Have you even bothered to look at his website :bonk: i think he may be taking the ****....i don't know what gear he uses but he posts some of the best portrait work on this forum.
 
Or, hes just better with a disposable, then a lot of people with slr, lenses etc....

If thats the case.. wow!
 
How can he be taken seriously then? obviously with all due respect to the gentleman, he needs to learn some business skills to go with his photography ones.
Having been in business myself for 17 years one thing I have learnt and that is to protect your back in any business commitment. This involves water tight contracts - full insurance - accredited accountant and good solicitor.

Realspeed
 
blinkerz said:
its going off on a tangent now,... im stalling with sending the pictures for now, but i really dont know where i stand, and spending hundreds on a lawyer for advice is not really an option for me.
Click to expand...

Tell her to make like a drum and beat it. Seriously, don't loose any sleep, as someone says earlier, she owns the copyright, nothing else. Let her have the copyright, and simply withhold the photos.

She has tried to bump you, she must be a real silly cow if she thinks legally, she has a leg to stand on.

G.
 
is she planning on using the photos or not? I get the impression she isn't after telling you she wasn't interested after the first shoot.

As has been said, the SD card with the images was lost, nothing can be done about it. ;)
 
There was nothing wrong with the images, 'bedspread' in glamour section is one of the images i took.. Why is she soo fussed about getting the images if they were bad.... , she keeps pestering with emails about sending and wanted next day special delivery, because the site goes live once she is on the front cover of playboy
 
blinkerz said:
There was nothing wrong with the images, 'bedspread' in glamour section is one of the images i took.. Why is she soo fussed about getting the images if they were bad.... , she keeps pestering with emails about sending and wanted next day special delivery, because the site goes live once she is on the front cover of playboy
Click to expand...

After seeing the photos, I think you should personally deliver them to her right now, apologise, several times, and then ask her out on several dates. If that fails, tell her your Copyright Representative from Edinburgh will visit with her to discuss one or two delicate matters.


**** me dude, awesome.

Gary.
 
blinkerz said:
im already losing sleep,lol.. i should have gone a while back, i know looking back i should have done things differently, but hindsight is always 20/20..
Click to expand...

There is another legal term - fair contract / deal. Some things just can't be legal.

In the contract, were the specific images listed, or otherwise clearly described? Or as written did she claim ''all your work" you ever done or will do. I don't think this would stand up well in court.
Unless it is specified exactly, she doesn't really have anything - as you had storage failure.
Even if you have to oblige to sending the pics, then she would have to honour the 10%.

Seriously, it is a time to get the lawyer. There are some dodgy no win no fees solicitors, and citizen advise bureau. You could get some money out of it if you push for your 10%.
 
This is all about a contract, you both have a role to play in this agreement you do photos and supply them in return she pays you 10% of all money made from the website not just your photos.

The contract is unfair, everything is in favour of the model, full copyright, of all photos and video you take, not just the ones for and of her. You have signed over copyright to everything you take from the date of the contract that is not fair.
The using all the photos on her site and the option to changer her mind over using them (OK not that bad)
The option to change her mind about paying is totally unfair.

Yes you were wrong to sign this contract but it is irrelevant and a court should not enforce anything on there should she take it to court, it is unfair of her to expect you to work for free unless it was previously agreed on. If she doesn't want to pay then she should have stated it before not after.

A few options that I can see for you
Send her the photos and see if she uses them, if she does then you can take this as her being happy with the photos, if she is selective in which she uses then she is performing as per the contract, her using them and the site making any money then you should be paid just deciding not to pay doesn't wash. Wait till her accounts are done then go after her for your 10% of revenue from the site each and every year or maybe let it build up for a few years then go after her. It would also be useful to see if she uses your photos anywhere else people often post photos on the likes of facebook and my space, that would be her in breach of contract.

Don't send her the photos, she goes after you for breach of contract, you then claim the contract is unfair and hope the courts see it that way also.

People often abuse the trust of others and she is doing here, personally I would send her the photos just so that you conform to the contract, you have done the job and have something that you can't use other than the one image (which I think is excellent BTW), would I make life difficult for her? possibly maybe get the photos printed and send her them, there is no specification of the format in her contract. If you send them in digital format then I wouldn't waste any more time processing them to look bad if they are good as I expect they are she will use them on other sites not just her personal site. All of which will solidify your case further. I just think she will trip up over this.
 
MR PHOTOGRAPHER will receive 10% of all revenue from www.***** unless otherwise stated by Miss MODEL.


Send her the photos, your still getting 10% of ALL the revenue from her website right? so under that contract it seems youve come off pretty well?
 
THIS IS AN AGREEMENT BETWEEN MR PHOTOGRAPHER AND MISS MODEL

COPYRIGHT AGREEMENT

All pictures and videos taking by MR PHOTOGRAPHER dated ...... And for the foreseeable future will be be the sole copyright of Miss Model. That means every image from that day forward is her copyright, not just for or of her.

All pictures and videos taken by MR PHOTOGRAPHER will be used exclusively on Miss MODELS website www.****** unless otherwise stated by Miss MODEL. That means all of your images that you take of anything at all, will appear on her website. They can't be used anywhere else.

MR PHOTOGRAPHER will receive 10% of all revenue from www.***** unless otherwise stated by Miss MODEL. That means that from that day forward, you will receive 10% of her website revenue.

MR PHOTOGRAPHER
Signature:_________
Print Name ________


MISS MODEL
Signature:_________ She was too lazy to sign so it isn't agreed anyway
Print Name ________





My gut feeling is that she has the IQ of a pina colada (and that's insulting the pina colada!) and it would get thrown out of court anyway. There's more holes in that contract than in a net curtain.

Get a solicitor to confirm that. Then just tell her "fine, take me to court!"
 
blinkerz said:
she deffiently said she wont be paying me 10 percent or any other fee for the days work.
Click to expand...

In that case isn't it null and void from the start? She broken the agreement to pay you for your time, regardless of the 10%

Rob.
 
I have not read the whole thread so apologies if this has been said already.

She owns copyright which means that you cannot do anything with them - nothing at all without her say so. But it seems to me that there is no mention of who owns the files, or any obligation on you to hand them over - if you haven't already done so. If you have of course, then you're stuffed. Live and learn.

If she doesn't have finished image files or only low-res proofs, you may choose not to supply, or only do so on the basis of a further agreement, which would at least confirm your 10% deal and maybe an up font payment. It can say anything you like, it's an entirely new agreement. You may also want to make an appropriate charge to cover your costs.

This is completely against the spirit of the agreement, written or otherwise, but two can play at that game ;)

However, my experience in these affairs is always to maintain good relations if at all possible. What's done is done but if there is still some mutual benefit to be had by getting along and cooperating, then that is far better than throwing contracts about and making legal threats which, in reality, are little more than hot air unless the money at stake runs into thousands.
 
She's obviously just trying to bend you over Blinkerz - big time. The way she's performed over your agreement I wouldn't hold out much hope of seeing any returns from your work which she chooses to put up on her web site either. I assume from the wording of the contract she didn't sign a model release form?

I'd forget it and move on. I'd personally send her no images and let her make the running. My guess is you wont hear from her beyond maybe a bit of attempted intimidation which you should ignore.
 
Look, you really need professional advice.

You've had so many different opinions here, I'm not surprised you don't know where to turn.

Try www.own-it.org

It's free of charge, it may take a while, but if she hassles you again, just explain that you're taking legal advice. THAT may be good enough on its own to deter her.
 
Just printed it off and stuck it in front of the legal beagle at work :)

She says you are an arse and don't sign rubbish like that in the future (She's always somewhat forthright with her advice, that will be £50 please ;))

As for the so called contact, yes you could drive holes through it as has been previously pointed out. The last para "Unless otherwise stated" means that she could legitimately turn round and say you are not getting your 10% because she says so and as such it forms an unfair contract and could very easily be challenged.

However, you are dealing with copyright and intellectual property law with the first two paragraphs and my question is quite simply that if you have agreed to sign over the copyright then why have you not simply provided the images as you have agreed to do so?

Yes, you could just send her RAW files or really low res that are not worth having but why is it such a problem for you to honour your part (you DID sign it)

You know she's not going to honour part three but then why would she? It says "Unless otherwise stated" She's stating otherwise!
 
BouncyMelons said:
Just printed it off and stuck it in front of the legal beagle at work :)

She says you are an arse and don't sign rubbish like that in the future (She's always somewhat forthright with her advice, that will be £50 please ;))

As for the so called contact, yes you could drive holes through it as has been previously pointed out. The last para "Unless otherwise stated" means that she could legitimately turn round and say you are not getting your 10% because she says so and as such it forms an unfair contract and could very easily be challenged.

However, you are dealing with copyright and intellectual property law with the first two paragraphs and my question is quite simply that if you have agreed to sign over the copyright then why have you not simply provided the images as you have agreed to do so?

Yes, you could just send her RAW files or really low res that are not worth having but why is it such a problem for you to honour your part (you DID sign it)

You know she's not going to honour part three but then why would she? It says "Unless otherwise stated" She's stating otherwise!
Click to expand...

I am not a lawyer, but i have to read and sign contracts in my job in the construction industry.

But from my experience and understanding i believe the term "unless otherwise stated" means that this is the clients standard form of contract and any amendments or variance to this standard form, must be included on the contract, in other words when the contract says unless otherwise stated it must show in writing what is actually otherwise stated, not what she may decide to otherwise say at a later time.

She might state at a later date that not only is she not going to pay you any commission, but is going to take your house and car for the privilage of allowing you to take her photo.:)
 
Which is what I do too and hence I did ask our lawyer ;)

The "otherwise stated" is all fine and well when there IS the presence of the rest of a standard contract but there seems to be a lack thereof of any standard terms and conditions and thus has to be treated as it has been written. (not very well ;))

And the otherwise stated can only be applied to the statement to which it applies i.e. payment or not of 10% commission (or a variance of that figure) It's got nothing to do with any monies or property going the other way :)

I'm still interested as to why Blinkerz does not just hand over a few pics from that first shoot and be done with it?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top