Lee/Hitech Grads, 10 stopper and CPL

gad-westy

gad-westy

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Graham
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It's about time I got some filters but frankly I am hugely confused by the bewildering choice. Some people seem to recommend hitech and others seem to despise them. Anyway, what I'm looking to achieve is: 0.3 Soft grad, 0.6 soft grad, 10 stop (or close to 10) ND and a CPL. Hopefully that should cover most bases for now. I realise I could get all of this from Lee but my budget is £400 absolute tops so something needs to give.

I was going to go for a Lee foundation kit with appropriate 77mm wide angle adaptor. I think this will set me back about £90 and will allow me use up to four filters piggy backed (or do I need more holders as well?).

So with a remaining budget of £310, am I going to be able to purchase the grads, the 10 stopper and CPL and if so, what should I be looking for?

The hitech 100mm x 100mm grads seem very reasonable but do I need larger ones? Will they fit ok in the Lee holder? Do they stack ok or does this give colour casts?

The hitech 100mmx100mm 10 stopper looks good but is available in both 1.5mm and 3mm thickness. Which one will work with Lee holders? Will this work ok with the hitech grads?

The CPL, frankly I don't even know where to start!
 
Lots of questions!

I would skip the 0.3 grad...you probably won't use it very often, and assuming that you're shooting raw it's likely you could recover the detail anyway. I use the 85mm version of the hi-tech grads (in a Cokin P wide-angle holder) which are fine at 24mm (I don't shoot wider than that). I'm sure the Lee ones are better, but I can't justify the extra expense. (Law of diminishing returns and all that!)

Personally I've only ever used a circular 10-stop filter, so can't comment on the Hitech versions - I can only imagine that one of those does fit the Lee holder though - might be worth phoning Formatt to check.

For the CPL I would go for a standard screw-in rather than one designed for the Lee System. Look out for a multicoated one (Hoya and B+W are probably the most often recommended - though I use a Singh-Ray warming polariser). Obviously for screw-in filters you should buy for your largest lens (including any lenses you are going to be soon) and buy a step down ring for smaller lenses.
 
With Lee they do two CPLs, the 100mm square CPl and the 105mm monster that fits with the pro kit (another foundation kit and a tandem ring to connect it to the front of your existing foundation kit).

I tend to use the square CPL if I just want a CPL, as it is quicker to use, and the 105mm when I want to combine grads and CPL.

I'd go for the 100x150mm filters as they give you the flexibility to move them around a lot without worrying about the bottom or top edge appearing in shot.

I had Hitech P series filters before I had Cokin Z and before I swapped them for Lee, they got a bit pinky if you stacked them up but TBH I rarely feel the need to stack them.

As Mark said a 1 stop is neither here nor there. I tend to find a 2 stop is my most used, If I was building up my kit again I'd probably go for a 2 stop hard edge, a 2 stop soft edge and a 3 stop reverse grad.
 
Cheers chaps, great stuff. I will take on board the advice about the 0.3 grad. I'd really only thought about that as I was thinking that I could stack it with the 0.6 and hence avoid buying a 0.9 as well. I can see that just buying the right tool for the job maybe of more use. I presume the hard grads are mainly for seascapes? I hadn't really thought about a reverse grad. When would one typically be used?

On the CPL, I assume that if I went for a regular screw in type, I wouldn't be able to use it with a filter kit as well. Would this be an issue? I've only ever used filters individually so not sure what works with what.

So if I want a CPL that fits on the lee kit I'd need to get the Lee 105mm accessory ring and then any 105mm CPL? This could be used with or without other filters?

Bloody confusing, all this!
 
futureal33 said:
I'm in the same boat and have been playing with the Lee system today.

For me, I'm going to go down this route:

Colin Z Pro filter holder
Hitech 100mm 0.6 (2stop) hard grad
Hitech 100mm 1.2 (4 stop) solid ND
Hitech Pro Stopper (10 stops)

And on the CPL front I'm not sure yet.
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Glad I'm not the only one! Do you know if the hitech grads are available in 100x150mm or just 100m square?
 
You can get the hitech in 100x150.

The reverse grad has become my favourite, I use it for sunsets, the darkest part is right in the centre of the filter, clear below and fading out to the top to allow detail in the sky and just holding back the strip where the sun is.

For the Lee 105mm CPL you'll need the filter itself, an accessory ring and the pro kit (or pro upgrade to the foundation kit) assuming you want to use it with grads. If not just the accessory ring and it will slot straight into your foundation kit.
 
Cheers Mark. Couldn't see the hitech 100x150's listed but I'll speak to Formatt.

Like the sound of the reverse grad, think I may go for one of those.

Still a little confused about the CPL side of things. Do I need the pro kit because the accessory ring effectively uses up one of the Lee holders. I.e I'll need one holder for the grad/s and another for the accessory ring that I'll then screw a CPL into?
 
Sorry one last question, maybe!

As I understand it the pro kit has two holders that rotate independently of each other. Lee two a square CPL. So I presume I could put a grad in one holder and place a square CPL in the other holder and be able to rotate it independently of the grad? That would eliminate the need for an accessory ring at least.

Have I got that right?
 
Graham update since my last message.
I'm now considering the Hitech filter holder. There are quite a few variants (1-3 slot and 1-2 slot wide angle)
This holder also has a 105mm circular "socket" on the front for a 105mm CPL to screw into.

If I could find out if this filter shows up on ultra wide lenses I will place an order.

My assumption is that the UWA 2 slot filter would be best ( allowing me a solid ND and a GND filter in 100x100mm form, and a 105mm CPL on the front if req'd)

Let me know if you find anything else out!
 
futureal33 said:
Graham update since my last message.
I'm now considering the Hitech filter holder. There are quite a few variants (1-3 slot and 1-2 slot wide angle)
This holder also has a 105mm circular "socket" on the front for a 105mm CPL to screw into.

If I could find out if this filter shows up on ultra wide lenses I will place an order.

My assumption is that the UWA 2 slot filter would be best ( allowing me a solid ND and a GND filter in 100x100mm form, and a 105mm CPL on the front if req'd)

Let me know if you find anything else out!
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Sounds good to me. If you confirm that it'll work on a UWA, it's be great if you report back. I'm still leaning towards the Lee kit itself but the CPL is a stumbling block as it's big bucks whichever way you cut it. I suppose the same would apply if I went for hitech but at least I could save some money on the hardware.
 
I bought a set of 100x150 soft and hard grads from here http://www.teamworkphoto.com and get on really well with them - for the price its well worth it. They fit fine into the Lee filter holder.

I also have the older version of the 10 stopper from them (no gasket) and a 4 stop.

I have also used a CPL screwed into my lens and then screwes the Lee holder onto it. Though not a simple thing to use, it did actually work and was not detrimental to my pictures (that I can tell).
 
-RV- said:
I bought a set of 100x150 soft and hard grads from here http://www.teamworkphoto.com and get on really well with them - for the price its well worth it. They fit fine into the Lee filter holder.

I also have the older version of the 10 stopper from them (no gasket) and a 4 stop.

I have also used a CPL screwed into my lens and then screwes the Lee holder onto it. Though not a simple thing to use, it did actually work and was not detrimental to my pictures (that I can tell).
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Interesting. Hadn't thought of doing it that way around but could save a lot of cash by using a regular screw in CPL. Any issues with using wide angle? I assume the whole filter assembly turns with the CPL. Does this become a pain with grads?
 
gad-westy said:
Interesting. Hadn't thought of doing it that way around but could save a lot of cash by using a regular screw in CPL. Any issues with using wide angle? I assume the whole filter assembly turns with the CPL. Does this become a pain with grads?
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Well, it works, but its not the best solution. I didn't do any wide angle but I would expect there to be issues and yes the whole assembly turns with the CPL. Not very elegant and a bit tricky but better than nothing. I would rarely need this kind of set-up so I'm currently happy with the messing about, so it depends on your needs really.
 
Decided to go with the LEE holder in the end (not bought it yet though) purely due to lack of information on the Hitech holder. Even Teamworkphoto (linked to above) couldn't tell me if I would get vignetting or the edges of the holder showing in my photo with it - and the fact that there are 5 variants of the same holder makes things overly complex IMO

The LEE holder can be configured how you want it, I believe it comes with upto 4 slots - and by simply undoing a few screws you can drop that down to 3,2,1 slot etc. Using the 77mm wide angle adapter ring there is meant to be no vignetting when using 2 filters and 17mm FOV - which is what I have spent the last few days trying to find out about the Hitech!

So my plan is LEE holder + Hitech filters (Solid ND 0.9 and Hard grad ND 0.6 to start with) and no doubt I will be adding a few more in due course!
Again, research has told me that 0.6ND grad is the most used grad filter - and my own experience shows that having a more powerful solid ND is more useful as it allows you to slow things down further - which is likely to be beneficial.
 
futureal33 said:
Decided to go with the LEE holder in the end (not bought it yet though) purely due to lack of information on the Hitech holder. Even Teamworkphoto (linked to above) couldn't tell me if I would get vignetting or the edges of the holder showing in my photo with it - and the fact that there are 5 variants of the same holder makes things overly complex IMO

The LEE holder can be configured how you want it, I believe it comes with upto 4 slots - and by simply undoing a few screws you can drop that down to 3,2,1 slot etc. Using the 77mm wide angle adapter ring there is meant to be no vignetting when using 2 filters and 17mm FOV - which is what I have spent the last few days trying to find out about the Hitech!

So my plan is LEE holder + Hitech filters (Solid ND 0.9 and Hard grad ND 0.6 to start with) and no doubt I will be adding a few more in due course!
Again, research has told me that 0.6ND grad is the most used grad filter - and my own experience shows that having a more powerful solid ND is more useful as it allows you to slow things down further - which is likely to be beneficial.
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Sounds like you're thinking along similar lines to me Nick. I too have found it pretty tricky to get info about some of the systems. Not just hitech actually. Even Lee at times is confusing but there seems to be enough people using their systems to offer some reassurance.

I think I'm going to go for:

Lee Foundation kit
77mm wide angle adaptor
72mm standard adaptor
Hitech 100x150 ND Master Set (3x ND softs and 3x ND's)
Hitech 100x100 pro stopper (10 stops)
Hitech 100x100 6 point star filter

That lot seems to come in around £330 although I haven't shopped around yet. I may ditch the ND set and pick and choose a little as well. All siz is probably overkill.

The reverse grads and polariser will probably just have to wait for a while.
 
Very similar to me mate, I will also need the 77mm WA adaptor.

Ive currently got a set of Cokins which I use, but Im sick of their nasty colour cast and confusing line up of filters! Took a few shots these last few weeks with them and it takes ages in photoshop to get the colours right as the colour cast seems to affect multiple colours - which is a nightmare.
IMO hard grads are more useful than soft - but each to their own :)

Dale Photographic seem to be the best place to buy!
 
futureal33 said:
Very similar to me mate, I will also need the 77mm WA adaptor.

Ive currently got a set of Cokins which I use, but Im sick of their nasty colour cast and confusing line up of filters! Took a few shots these last few weeks with them and it takes ages in photoshop to get the colours right as the colour cast seems to affect multiple colours - which is a nightmare.
IMO hard grads are more useful than soft - but each to their own :)

Dale Photographic seem to be the best place to buy!
Click to expand...

Out of interest, can you expand on the hard grads vs. soft thing? I've not used either yet. My understanding, rightly or wrongly, was that a soft grad would be more useful in any situation where the horizon is undulating or partially obscured. I'd more or less ruled out the hard grads as I had them down as a seascapes only option. I'm wondering if I should reconsider.
 
I was using hard grads in the Yorkshire dales yesterday when faced with a hillside that was essentially a straight line, albeit at an angle.

The most useful thing I found when I bought my Lee filters was the Lee Inspiring Professionals book which is about a tenner, I'd never used my filters anything other than straight up and down (I don't know why, I'd never thought of it) until I read the book, it has a series of stunning landscapes by top landscape photographers and explains which filters they used and how.
 
The 100mm is the width of the Hitech grads (85mm being the other main alternative). The solid ND filters are 100 by 100, the graduated NDs are 150 by 100. The grads are longer so you can slide them up and down to get the transition from dark to light in the right place. No need to do that with solid NDs obviously.
 
ianmarsh said:
The 100mm is the width of the Hitech grads (85mm being the other main alternative). The solid ND filters are 100 by 100, the graduated NDs are 150 by 100. The grads are longer so you can slide them up and down to get the transition from dark to light in the right place. No need to do that with solid NDs obviously.
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Cheers Ian. I understand the bit about a requirement for a longer grad to allow movement within the holder. Trouble is that Hitech seem to offer both 100x125mm and 100x150mm. A lot of the suppliers don't list which one they're actually selling so it's very hard to definitively compare like for like prices. I'm going to call around a few places today.

BTW, I assume 100x150mm is the way to go in terms of giving a bit more room for manoeuvre.
 
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gad-westy said:
Out of interest, can you expand on the hard grads vs. soft thing? I've not used either yet. My understanding, rightly or wrongly, was that a soft grad would be more useful in any situation where the horizon is undulating or partially obscured. I'd more or less ruled out the hard grads as I had them down as a seascapes only option. I'm wondering if I should reconsider.
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Yeah sure :)

Hard Grad IMO is more useful because the difference between dark and light happens almost immediately.. meaning that your whole sky is darkened

Whereas a soft grad is just that... ie, the bottom half of the sky (where the graduation is at its weakest) is still too light and may still be blown out, but a thin slice right at the top of the sky (at the top of the grad filter - ie the darkest bit) gets the full effect and is brought back down to the desired level of ND reduction.

Hard to explain without showing you examples, which I dont have, but I found that with a soft grad, half of the sky is still blown out / over exposed, whereas with a hard grad I can reduce the brightness of everything from where I place the line.
Obviously you then need to "dodge" things in photoshop, or use "selective exposure adjustment" to brighten things up that have fallen inside the hard grad zone, which perhaps you didnt want darkening (such as tops of mountains etc) - but this is only a 2 minute job and is favourable IMO to having a soft grad where only the top of the sky is properly reduced due to the softness of the gradient
 
A couple of points.
Firstly I'd recommend hard grads rather than soft, when you think about it the filter is pretty close to the lens front element and so even if it looks a rapid transition from dark to light, the sensor "sees" quite an effective distance between the light and dark areas, as it is small relative to the size of the ND filter and close to it..I hope I'm making myself clear...so the actual transition is more than you'd think just looking at the ND filter on it's own.

Secondly, on an earlier post, if I understand correctly there was a suggestion that the light could be polarised after using an ND filter.

That is not recommended, the polarising should be the first process when the light hits the lens system otherwise it's going to show up any stress faults in the ND filter.

George
 
George, so polariser right at the front before any grads (Lens-grads-polariser) which would rule out using a screw on CPL with a square filter system? (not ideal I know)
 
Well, Julian, on the Lee system the circular polariser fits on the front of the filter holder so it's not a problem, but it would rule out the circular polariser screwed on to the lens and then the filters in front of that.....oh and of course as I'm sure hS BEEN SAID BEFORE, YOU'LL LOSE 2 STOPS WITH most polarising filters (sorry about caps lock!!)
 
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Thanks, been following this thread with interest. B+W 77 mrc cpl anyone.;)
 
Cheers all. Just finalising what I want. Just want the general consensus on the 100mm x 125mm grads vs the 100mm x 150mm grads. There is a fair price difference for the 25mm but I'll stump up the cash if it's worth it.
 
Well, I think I have finally decided what I'm going for. Thank you everybody for your help. I'm going to go for the 100mm x 150mm grads just to be on the safe side. Costs have spiralled so I've had to rein in the number of grads to just one 2 stop soft and one 2 stop hard. I'll get more in future if I feel I'm missing out. Full list for anybody who's been following:

Lee Foundation kit
Lee 52mm and 72mm standard adaptors
Lee 77mm wide angle adaptor
Lee 105mm polariser adaptor
100x150 Hitech 0.6 Soft Grad
100x150 Hitech 0.6 Hard Grad
100x100 Hitech 10 stop Pro ND (1.5mm with gasket)
100x100 Hitech 6 point star filter
105mm Hitech Screw in CPL

Nearly £500, eek! At least I will have got most of the expensive stuff from the off. Will get most of the kit from Teamwork and some bits direct from Formatt.

Any last minute feedback more than welcome as I'll not be ordering until later this week.
 
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Well I was kind of in the same boat. this is what I ended up getting:

HT WA 2 slot holder
HT 77mm adapter ring
HT 0.6 hard
HT 0.9 hard
HT 0.6 soft
HT 0.9 hard

B&W ND110 10-stop
Hoya Pro1 77CPL

the results? fantastic. Can't fault any of the kit.What could I change? For one, I would probably move to a Lee holder, buy a Big Stopper and use HT for the Nd grads.

Why? because low light shots required me to pre focus, mount the filter kit to set the grad where I wanted it, take all that off, put the ND110 on, then put the filter kit on, then take the exposure.

It works, but if you need to recompose it is a complete pain in the arse. For this reason alone I'd drop coin on a slot in 10 stop. I'd consider the HT 10stop but one thing I dont like about the HTs is that they scratch really easily. I can imagine the glass Big Stopper being a lot harder to scratch, and I prefer the cooler tones it produces.
 
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Noopz said:
Well I was kind of in the same boat. this is what I ended up getting:

HT WA 2 slot holder
HT 77mm adapter ring
HT 0.6 hard
HT 0.9 hard
HT 0.6 soft
HT 0.9 hard

B&W ND110 10-stop
Hoya Pro1 77CPL

the results? fantastic. Can't fault any of the kit.What could I change? For one, I would probably move to a Lee holder, buy a Big Stopper and use HT for the Nd grads.

Why? because low light shots required me to pre focus, mount the filter kit to set the grad where I wanted it, take all that off, put the ND110 on, then put the filter kit on, then take the exposure.

It works, but if you need to recompose it is a complete pain in the arse. For this reason alone I'd drop coin on a slot in 10 stop. I'd consider the HT 10stop but one thing I dont like about the HTs is that they scratch really easily. I can imagine the glass Big Stopper being a lot harder to scratch, and I prefer the cooler tones it produces.
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Cheers Noopz, that's reassuring stuff. I think I'll be ok in terms of set up as the everything will be slot in except for the polariser but that will fit on the front.

I decided pretty early on to discount the Lee Big Stopper. I'd have either had to wait until Christmas to buy one new or paid way over the odds for a used one. One review I read seemed to suggest that the newest hitech 10 stop performs on a par with the Lee (though I take the point about scratch resistance) and of course it's vastly cheaper.
 
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gad-westy said:
....and some bits direct from Formatt.

Any last minute feedback more than welcome as I'll not be ordering until later this week.
Click to expand...

If you need them in a hurry, I'd advise against Formatt wherever possible.

It's like pulling teeth dealing with them in my experience :shake:
 
Simmotino said:
If you need them in a hurry, I'd advise against Formatt wherever possible.

It's like pulling teeth dealing with them in my experience :shake:
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Cheers for the heads up. In their defence I sent them an email enquiry the other day and got a very prompt reply. I'll actually only be getting the CPL, star filter and maybe a storage wallet directly from them though so could probably tolerate a delay as long as the rest shows up promptly.
 
I got a quick email when I placed my order as well to be fair, so I don't think it's the general CS that's the issue, it's more when you've ordered something and then you have to do all the chasing for timescales etc. despite them already having your money!
 
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