Lazy Photographers

The search problem is the first thing I was going to say. We know that when the camera says on the little screen thing 200 that it's on 1/200s and that that's the shutter speed or exposure (which is the other problem, multiple terminology for the same thing), but to someone who's just got this camera and can't understand the manual, it's just a strange number on top of their camera.

I have to say I only joined earlier this year and I had plenty of people happily helping me with my silly enquiries - both on this forum and IRC. I can't honestly imagine that spirit has gone in just a few months - I sure hope it hasn't.

If you click on a thread asking an old question you don't want to answer, try the x or moving to a different page. Better someone only gets 1 or 2 responses that aren't snarky than 10 and half are rude.


But this isn't a discussion forum alone, it's an information forum, that's just the nature of it -all forums giving information will have the same questions over and over and over again. Most manage well, so get a damn grip.
 
PsiFox said:
The only stupid question is the one you keep in your mind and never put a voice to.
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That has been one of my faveroute sayings for many years..

Who are we to judge the capabilities of the person asking the question... I can remember asking questions that completly dumbfounded me but probably seemed like no brainers to others...

But for me personally at the end of the day....one of the few pleasures of having knowledge is passing it onto other.. the ability to help... I love it :)
 
KIPAX said:
Who are we to judge the capabilities of the person asking the question... I can remember asking questions that completly dumbfounded me but probably seemed like no brainers to others...

But for me personally at the end of the day....one of the few pleasures of having knowledge is passing it onto other.. the ability to help... I love it :)
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Exactly:):thumbs::clap:
 
when poeple are stasrtingm in photograpny they dont generally know the teminolgy. this makes it difficlt to find info. i would rather poeple ask, the poeple in the know can point them in the right direction.

Cheers steve
 
Different learning methods suit different people. Some find it easier to learn from books, some find it easier to learn by practical experimentation, some find it easier to have things explained. Among that there will be people who expect to be spoon fed rather than put effort in but I suspect that they're in a distinct minority and easily ignored if you find them irritating.

It's all part of life's rich tapestry ;)
 
srichards said:
If someone hasn't grasped how their camera works are they able to search threads on a forum to find the answers anyway? They might not be lazy just not technically minded at all. For some people posting on a forum is a hard thing for them to do. Not everyone is computer literate.


Also I get the feeling that those that are complaining about beginners earning money from photography are slightly jealous as those beginners are just going out and giving it a go. Some people like to know a lot about an area before offering services and others are more likely to jump in and see what happens. Those that jump right in might actually be perfectly capable of producing good pictures despite lack of technical knowledge. You can be a good driver without knowing how an engine works so I'm sure there are people out there that can take good pictures without knowing their isos from their apertures...

It's the nature of a forum that new people arrive and ask the same questions that have been asked before. If it bothers you that much then ignore them :)
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OK I will bite.

I have no issues of the same questions being asked, but as I have said in previous posts, when the question is that basic and it is coming from someone offering a service there are 2 things. 1/ should they be offering that service 2/ what happens when something crops up during a shot that they do not know how to correct, " sorry just hang on there, I just need to post on a forum to see what I need to do as these photos look a little bright/dark." I would .be walking away and making sure no one uses them. They are damaging the reputation of professional photographers

I am not jealous of a newbie going out and earning money, but for the love of god know the basics. Would you take your car to be serviced by someone who doesn't know the basics of car mechanics ie what does a spark plug do, why is oil required and what type. I know I wouldn't. Or how about hiring a chauffeur who has not learnt to drive, going along your train of thought

I am sure there are people who have an eye of photographs that do not understand iso shutter speed or aperture, but they are not going to get consistently good results and the ones they do get are going to be down to more luck than judgement.
 
Voyager said:
If you ask a question that you could have answered yourself just by thinking about what you just said, that's pretty stupid.
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Sometimes it not about the actual answer as there may be a few. It's also about peoples opinions on the matter. I asked something that I basically answered but the point of asking was more about what is the prefered method. For me it was smoking tyres while the wheel looked stationary (fast shutter). I was asking more towards do people prefer a still wheel or a bit of blur (although it didn't really come across like that).

I think a lot of noobs also come to DSLR from point and click and it's when you do that you realise how much a point and click does for you.

I got a 70-300 lens sigma lens and didn't even realise about focal length and having to be at least that far away. to allow it to focus. I was right on top of the subject trying to get a good close up shot :lol: It makes perfect sense after I was told on here about it but I can see why to experienced photographers it may seem like a stupid thing to say.

I have used the search function and prefer to resurrect an old thread (after reading it of course) then start a new one.
 
Islander said:
Different learning methods suit different people. Some find it easier to learn from books, some find it easier to learn by practical experimentation, some find it easier to have things explained. Among that there will be people who expect to be spoon fed rather than put effort in but I suspect that they're in a distinct minority and easily ignored if you find them irritating.

It's all part of life's rich tapestry ;)
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Exactly, and I would not like anyone to be discouraged from asking just because the answer to their question was available elsewhere.
 
Yesterday I put a post in general photo sharing, got one reply, thanks to TinaC.

The post was called woodland sun.

Now , I am completely new to this photography thing, its my new hobby and I am loving every minute of it. I bought my Canon 500d after much research, read the manual to the auto stage then played with the camera. After two days I progressed to chapter 3 (Advanced shooting techniques). I go out play with camera, come home and read over manual again and things become more apparent the more I play around and then read over and over again.

I am going to do a basic course, but untill then I am not leaving my camera in a cupboard.

In my manual iso speeds are explained as follows,
100-200 sunny outdoors
400-800 overcast skies, evening
1600-6400 dark indoors or night.
I took these pics from in a dark wood which to me was between overcast and night, but I was pointing the camera at a bright light the sun (sunny outdoors). I took two pics at different iso speeds. This was after reading the manual on iso speeds, then drove 5 miles to woods(had nice walk must admit, with two year old daughter). Drove home, round trip 3 hours, put pics on lap top then onto this site. Then get called lazy on here.But I guess my question was to basic for replies. Even if answer could of been its down to personal preference.

I guess from the starter of this thread that photography is a exclusive club unless you know what your doing. :cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo:
 
If you've got the knowledge, why not share it?

I've learnt far more since I started from asking question, some of which I now realise were painfully obvious, than I have out of reading other stuff. If you ask someone a question, they can come up with an answer that is crafted exactly to your needs in a way a book or website just can't.
 
I think some people on this thread are starting to stray away from the original point and try and bring genuine, simple questions into the topic. This is not the case.

I've resisted bringing in very specific examples of "lazy questions".. but maybe some recent examples are needed to illustrate that it's not newbies to the hobby that are being targetted by this topic.

need a good definition of the meaning protrait for A level photography ?
been looking over the internet not much found so i thought your pro's would have a goood definition of it
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This is a lazy question.. it's a, "I haven't done my homework and the assignment is due in the morning question". It's someone studying photography to A-level that can't research a very basic definition and expects someone else to give it to them on a plate. They've actually said that they have searched the internet and not found much. They're also specifically asking for a definition rather than a discussion on definitions.

A non-lazy way of asking the same question would be to propose two or three sample definitions (they're not difficult to find on the web) and create a discussion about improving on them. If the questioner hadn't claimed that the web was devoid of suitable answers that thread might not have collected so many abrupt replies.


If you are reading this thread.. then do not worry.. "lazy question" will never be directed at you. The users that ask these questions are obviously not taking the trouble to read any thread not started by themselves. They're not just lazy questioners, they are first and foremost lazy readers. They are unlikely to be any of us that used to read under the duvet at night, and certainly not someone that's reading on their laptop in the wee small hours.
 
mikergj said:
Yesterday I put a post in general photo sharing, got one reply, thanks to TinaC.

The post was called woodland sun.

Now , I am completely new to this photography thing, its my new hobby and I am loving every minute of it. I bought my Canon 500d after much research, read the manual to the auto stage then played with the camera. After two days I progressed to chapter 3 (Advanced shooting techniques). I go out play with camera, come home and read over manual again and things become more apparent the more I play around and then read over and over again.

I am going to do a basic course, but untill then I am not leaving my camera in a cupboard.

In my manual iso speeds are explained as follows,
100-200 sunny outdoors
400-800 overcast skies, evening
1600-6400 dark indoors or night.
I took these pics from in a dark wood which to me was between overcast and night, but I was pointing the camera at a bright light the sun (sunny outdoors). I took two pics at different iso speeds. This was after reading the manual on iso speeds, then drove 5 miles to woods(had nice walk must admit, with two year old daughter). Drove home, round trip 3 hours, put pics on lap top then onto this site. Then get called lazy on here.But I guess my question was to basic for replies. Even if answer could of been its down to personal preference.

I guess from the starter of this thread that photography is a exclusive club unless you know w
hat your doing. :cuckoo::cuckoo::cuckoo:
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Sorry I really think you have missed the point that the op was making, he was not talking about a newbie or hobbiest asking basic questions, but someone offering photography as a service and charging for it, then asking the same questions as the newbie, surely this is just wrong, charging for something when you do not know how to do the service to a basic level.
 
Davec223 said:
Sorry I really think you have missed the point that the op was making, he was not talking about a newbie or hobbiest asking basic questions, but someone offering photography as a service and charging for it, then asking the same questions as the newbie, surely this is just wrong, charging for something when you do not know how to do the service to a basic level.
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Where in the original post does it talk about pro photography?:thinking:

Lazy Photographers

Now this forum is friendly which is great but should we be spoon feeding people?

I'm a nice person (i know i know, hard to believe) and i'm willing to help anyone but only if they're willing to put the effort in
And frankly it seems like some newcomers just aren't willing to do the basic footwork, even if it's reading the manual.

Possibly a bit deep for a monday morning but i've got the dentist at 12:20 so need something to distract me eh?
Thoughts? (on the subject not the dentist)
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i have to say part of my post was geared towards that but it was also a generalisation on those that aren't willing to put any effort into their own learning :)

oh and if anyone is wondering if i'm typing this whilst sat at the dentists....they rang and cancelled ^_^
clearly i'm devastated by this...
 
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alexkidd said:
i have to say part of my post was geared towards that but it was also a generalisation on those that aren't willing to put any effort into their own learning :)

oh and if anyone is wondering if i'm typing this whilst sat at the dentists....they rang and cancelled ^_^
clearly i'm devastated by this...
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I have some string and a door handle, if that helps?;)
 
Davec223 said:
Sorry I really think you have missed the point that the op was making, he was not talking about a newbie or hobbiest asking basic questions, but someone offering photography as a service and charging for it, then asking the same questions as the newbie, surely this is just wrong, charging for something when you do not know how to do the service to a basic level.
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Point taken Dave, and agree with what your saying. I would love to be at a standard to charge, but never would untill I was at that standard. I am a carpenter by trade, and meet plenty of so called carpenters as you describe. They are called chancers. I apologize for mis reading the original thread if thats the case.:thumbs::thumbs:
 
As a complete novice to photography ive found some of the advice ive had from older members here very valuable for which ive offered my thanks. However, ive also been a bit dissapointed at the lack of replies to some of my threads to some basic questions too. Personally i always look to answer questions myself via any media available whether that be manuals, books and the t'interweb but have felt in the past that ive had no replys to threads due to how basic the question might seem (and that it may have been asked many times in the past)

Having run forums myself in the past i know all too well that a forums job is not just to offer a place for intercation for its members but to also offer help, advice and information on the market/subject it covers to each and every member. So its ineviatble that there will be questions of varying levels being asked including very very basic ones.

I think in reality every question people want to ask could be found through search engines, books or magazines but that shouldnt mean we should be afraid to ask the question on a forum.

I do agree that newbies really should read HOW to use the forum and direct basic questions to the basics forum and not post them in other sections of the site, thats just basic forum etiquette. But at the same time it shouldnt be a problem for forum regulars to politely remind newbies there a place for their questions or simply skip to the next thread.

But hey thats just my 2 cents :D
 
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alexkidd said:
frankly it seems like some newcomers just aren't willing to do the basic footwork, even if it's reading the manual.
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It may be the case not so much of not reading the manual, but rather using a basic question as a means of interacting with other forum members for the first time, in which case telling the poster to "RTFM" really doesn't help.

We all had to start somewhere, whether it be with photography, or here on TP and let's be honest, isn't it worth the minute or so of your time it takes to answer a seemingly "silly" question if it makes a new member feel welcome?
 
I read the manual.. couldnt understand it.. didnt know what the heck an aperture was or where to get one from.. there was some big words in the manual .... so i asked on a forum and luckily enough I got people who where happy to help and not send me back to a manual i tried reading 15 times already.
 
Why is it that when someone asks a basic question they get a dozen answers all saying the same thing :thinking: Seems to me that people enjoy providing the answers. :shrug:
 
Splog said:
Why is it that when someone asks a basic question they get a dozen answers all saying the same thing :thinking: Seems to me that people enjoy providing the answers. :shrug:
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:agree: haha so true!:lol:
 
I find it weird that questions get answered several times by different people. Anyone would think they like to:)
 
Flash In The Pan said:
It may be the case not so much of not reading the manual, but rather using a basic question as a means of interacting with other forum members for the first time, in which case telling the poster to "RTFM" really doesn't help.

We all had to start somewhere, whether it be with photography, or here on TP and let's be honest, isn't it worth the minute or so of your time it takes to answer a seemingly "silly" question if it makes a new member feel welcome?
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agreed but i think most people can tell the difference between someone dipping their toes in the water and someone being a lazy git
granted that's another generalisation but i think it fits :)

i suppose if i was to keep it shorter and simpler i'd say it's the difference between helping someone learn and then just giving them the answers
does that make any sense? to anyone? :P

<3 <------------ this heart is to kill any bad vibes that are in this thread btw

edit : oh and reading the manual was just an example, it could have been buying a magazine, looking at google etc etc
 
There are two types of enquirer, so I believe.

On the one hand, people who have tried to help themselves but simply could not understand the material in the format it was presented. KIPAX says he could not understand the camera's manual, so asked a question on here. I've got no issue with that whatsoever because the person asking the question has made an honest try and done some legwork.

Then you get the sorts who don't understand something and their first response is to ask on a forum where, in honesty, typing the same question into Google would probably answer the question.

Some people say "Ahhh well, it's nice to get a human response" or "Sometimes it's nicer to interact with a forum that just use Google", but the person asking that simple question has to be aware that if that simple question has been posed before, they are not contributing anything to the forum by doing so. Again that's fine so long as there are people on said forum willing to repeatedly answer such posts, but it doesn't do to have a person asking said questions then feel slighted by a lack of responses, or even get irritated by it.

I guess what I'm saying is that the only people that **** me off, are they ones who ask basic questions and then stamp their feet when no-one responds.
 
My pet hate is someone saying "What camera should I buy for my wife", or "Thinking about buying a prime lens, which one shall I get".

People need to give a budget, what they plan to shoot and generally more info.
 
When people sign up to the forum, maybe an email showing the most commonly asked questions and a link to the thread/tutorial explaining them would be a good thing.

I am happy to help people and have done so before, but sometimes it is the way the question is written that makes the replies become the way they are,

Remember tone of voice etc. does not travel on the internet. If you want a decent answer, write a decent question.

Also sometimes you will get few replies to a question, it is just one of those things. I go into different sections of the forum from time to time, but generally stick to my main few places on it.

Don't be offended if your question doesn't get a load of responses, it doesn't mean we are all up ourselves it means that people who know the answer may not have seen the thread, or occasionally there have been a million different threads on it in the last few days that have been replied to and sometimes you cannot be bothered to repeat yourself.
 
No expert by any means, but do try and help when I can with any questions

Not so keen on the "what do I need or do to become a pro" type questions

Get the feeling they don't actually enjoy photography and just want to make a few quid out of it
 
PsiFox said:
No because we don't know the "questioner" and don't know what they are capable of figuring out.

Just because you can work that out doesn't mean someone else can.
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Clearly you have failed to bother to actually read what I've written.

Why not have another go?
If you ask a question that you could have answered yourself just by thinking about what you just said, that's pretty stupid.
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But this time do your best not to tell me that my opinion is wrong, eh?
PsiFox said:
If we make people afraid to ask, then we are doomed not just as a forum but as a race.:(
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Good job that is not what I suggested then isn't it?
 
I think todays' newbie will join in helping others tomorrow so it is important that they get that friendly forum feeling on the site. I can understand your point that they should do their homework first specially if there is a tutorial and guide section on the forum. But as others mentioned sometimes it is more help for them if they get answer from someone experienced.
 
Voyager said:
Clearly you have failed to bother to actually read what I've written.

Why not have another go?


But this time do your best not to tell me that my opinion is wrong, eh?

Good job that is not what I suggested then isn't it?
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Strangely enough I did, however the interweb is an excellent place to misunderstand what people actually mean because of the lack of inflection in posts.

Now Whilst working I am also trying to help here, which takes my mind of my elderly mother who is in hospital after 3 falls in 2 nights. I have had virtually no sleep for 4 nights which means my levels of concentration are suffering somewhat.
I can however spot condescension and sarcasm a mile off.

I just love it when people here are unable to have a discussion based on intellect and debated points but feel the need to be rude.

Oh well guess I found a use at long last for the ignore function.:)
 
cambsno said:
My pet hate is someone saying "What camera should I buy for my wife", or "Thinking about buying a prime lens, which one shall I get".
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If they haven't worked out what camera or prime lens to buy I doubt that they need one. I know what range my lens arsenal is lacking I don't need to ask other people to tell me. :nuts:
 
I agree that more people should use the search function (either the inbuilt forum one, or google specifying TP as the site), but noobies to photography may not know the correct terms for what they're asking, so how do they search? Or if they think that their issue is something to do with "exposure" (for instance) a search for that would bring up too many posts to be useful.
 
PsiFox said:
I just love it when people here are unable to have a discussion based on intellect and debated points but feel the need to be rude.
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If you want to have a discussion based on anything written it is best to read what you are replying to and if you think rudeness is unnecessary it might be best not start your reply to that which you have failed to read with a 'No...'.
 
I think its important to allow people to join the forum and fire off 20 basic questions. I did it, many others did it, and it might be lazy (it probably is) but lazy != bad :D I spend my time running at a million miles an hour whatever I do in life (another ADHD label!), and the quickest and easiest way for me to get the info I want, is to ask as MANY people who know, as quickly as possible....HI FORUM :D

Give the noobs a break, they could become super valuable members if treated with respect.

Gary.
 
PsiFox said:
Strangely enough I did, however the interweb is an excellent place to misunderstand what people actually mean because of the lack of inflection in posts.

Now Whilst working I am also trying to help here, which takes my mind of my elderly mother who is in hospital after 3 falls in 2 nights. I have had virtually no sleep for 4 nights which means my levels of concentration are suffering somewhat.
I can however spot condescension and sarcasm a mile off.

I just love it when people here are unable to have a discussion based on intellect and debated points but feel the need to be rude.

Oh well guess I found a use at long last for the ignore function.:)
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Sorry to hear about your Mum. I hope they sort her out at the hospital soon and that you get a good night's sleep tonight.
 
come on guys... where do you draw the line? we don't want a situation where people are asking questions in fear that it's too simple.

you can ask me whatever you want.. if i know the answer i'll tell you (unless someone else has beat me to it). if i don't the know the answer... i'll wait and read what someone else puts, that way i learn too.
 
I've been watching this all morning wondering to post or not, anyway here goes.

My take on it is we all started somewhere, the other day someone explained to me the thirds rule by using one of my photos cropped to show it and straight away I understood it, prior to that I just didn't get it. So now if anybody asks me about the thirds rule I can explain it to them.

Yeah I appreciate that having the same question asked thousands of times can be annoying, but then again you could choose not to answer it. Again if its someone new, the answers might already be there but do they actually know what to search for? Example - my dial says TV for Time Value, not Shutter Priority. It also says nothing in my manual about bokeh.

So yeah, it must be frustrating but think of it this way, passing your knowledge on at least keeps the sport alive doesn't it.
 
people keep coming back to having the same questions asked a thousand times which really isn't anywhere near the point i was trying to make :)

just to try and keep it somewhat on track, not that the thread has much more life left in it anyhow :)
 
ladysue said:
Sorry to hear about your Mum. I hope they sort her out at the hospital soon and that you get a good night's sleep tonight.
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Thanks for that Sue Got her GSD here as well so pack order getting sorted out in the house at the mo, as my 2 get used to her:eek:
 
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