Lazy Photographers

alexkidd

alexkidd

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Alex
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Now this forum is friendly which is great but should we be spoon feeding people?

I'm a nice person (i know i know, hard to believe) and i'm willing to help anyone but only if they're willing to put the effort in
And frankly it seems like some newcomers just aren't willing to do the basic footwork, even if it's reading the manual.

Possibly a bit deep for a monday morning but i've got the dentist at 12:20 so need something to distract me eh? :D
Thoughts? (on the subject not the dentist)
 
They should at least RTFM and use the search bar before asking the basics, but that's standard forum etiquette the world over.

Plus I wonder if they're so lazy as to nee to ask "what is shutter speed", then they're unlikely motivated enough to actually do anything with that knowledge...

With 10000's of websites on the subject, and doubtless 10 times as many books, it does sometimes make you wonder.
 
Many of the basic questions seem to come from understanding what they have read instead of actually reading it to start with.
 
I think people ask the same questions over and over because they want and need interaction and encouragement. Yes, all the info is here or on Google, but it's nice to feel you're getting a personal answer. I know it's frustrating, but none of us are forced to answer.
 
I think I might just start to answer questions with the page number of the manual ;)
 
As a relative newcomer to digital photography I have found the advice of people on forums like this and also other (mainly pro) photographers I have met to be invaluable.

Please don't stop answering queries in an intelligent manner, even if the questions appear basic to you, an informative answer could really help and onpe a door for the OP
 
The23rdman said:
I think people ask the same questions over and over because they want and need interaction and encouragement. Yes, all the info is here or on Google, but it's nice to feel you're getting a personal answer. I know it's frustrating, but none of us are forced to answer.
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niv2 said:
As a relative newcomer to digital photography I have found the advice of people on forums like this and also other (mainly pro) photographers I have met to be invaluable.

Please don't stop answering queries in an intelligent manner, even if the questions appear basic to you, an informative answer could really help and onpe a door for the OP
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i'm not advocating leaving new users to fend for themselves as it were just I suppose i'm asking if we're encouraging apathy in putting some self effort in :)

you know helping those who want to help themselves :)
 
I suspect a lot of people ask here after finding info on google, the reason they ask is to check with fellow photographers rather than some anonymous person on the web, I suppose theres a sort of (dare I say) "family" feeling here?.

(wedding threads excepted)
 
I hate how unwelcoming forums can seem and i think this is one of the reasons why. Who cares if its already been discussed. If you dont want to answer simply dont read or reply. Many people are not confident with computers so even if using the search seems simple to you some may not have a clue where to start.

And things like reading manuals. I never read manuals, being dyslexic means even the idea of a manual boggles but casual conversation on a forum i find very helpful.

Its a forum, we are here to chat we are here to help
 
Sometimes it is better to hear in "User friendly terms" and it is spelt out a lot easier than in manuals :shrug:

Don't reply - simples :shrug: if it annoys you :lol:


Have a nice time at the dentist :thumbs: :D :gag:
 
now one thing i have a problem with is reading i just can not stay focused ie attention disorder or something so i find it hard but show me and i will learn alot more

its not that im lazy, well sometimes lol i just dont always understand it

example i was shown on paper about f stops and studio lighting i could not get it but once it was explained i understood what happens and how to adjust

i hate dentist too , only just had a extraction and i have a feeling i will be going back for another filling in the next week or so , had a piece fallen out and im in some discomofort
 
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I'm never sure if the problem with some threads is the questioner being lazy, or just not knowing how to ask a question in a way that encourages people to provide answers. I can think of a couple of common styles of question that could go either way..

I'm doing an A-level in photography, I need to know X - what's the answer?

I want to do X with my camera, how do I do it?​

When it's perfectly possible that the questioner has done some work and is too lazy to type out a more detailed question.. rather then being lazy and not even looked.

For my next A-level photography assignment I need to research X. I've looked here and here and I've found A, B and C. I don't think these fully address the question, could anyone direct me to where I could find more information? And does anyone have an opinion on D as I'm not sure whether it fits the question or not?

I'm trying to do X with my camera (make, model). I've read the Manual and tried A and B but I'm not getting the effect I want (link to example by someone else). Am I doing something wrong? Is X the right thing to get the effect I'm looking for?​
 
Before this goes off on thread likely to put the newcomers off, can I remind you that the 'Talk Basics' forum was started specifically so people can ask those real simple questions that the rest of us take so much for granted. If you don't want to read them, don't visit that section. RTFM does not help anyone, as tempting as it sometimes is, because often, the manual uses more technical jargon than we would and confuses people even more. Some people also find this style of conversational learning much easier than trying to read a book about it and being overwhelmed.
 
Yv said:
Before this goes off on thread likely to put the newcomers off, can I remind you that the 'Talk Basics' forum was started specifically so people can ask those real simple questions that the rest of us take so much for granted. If you don't want to read them, don't visit that section. RTFM does not help anyone, as tempting as it sometimes is, because often, the manual uses more technical jargon than we would and confuses people even more. Some people also find this style of conversational learning much easier than trying to read a book about it and being overwhelmed.
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:thumbs::agree: That is why I asked for the thread to be started and I have learnt so much from just reading some of the answers on here :thumbs:
 
RTFM does not help anyone, as tempting as it sometimes is, because often, the manual uses more technical jargon than we would and confuses people even more.
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You've hit the nail on the head Yvonne. Often it's only after getting a bit of basic knowledge that the manual starts to make sense. The manual usually tells you everything but teaches you nothing:)
 
Sorry Yv but it's not a case of just not visiting that section, I navigate my way from the home page and rarely pay any attention to which section things are posted in. :)

I fully appreciate that not everyone learns in the same way but the internet and forums does definately encourage lazyness. It's not just photography forums that suffer from it.

It IS frustrating when you see the same question being posted for the 100th time. And it does mean that I don't answer them so where is the benefit in that?
 
i think so many people are missing the point, i'd try and explain but tbh i think it'd be futile.
 
I had a pretty good knowledge of photographic principles already gained from library books in the 1950's, however when I got my first DSLR the first port of call was to read the manual, since upgrading I've read the new manual. It isn't the easiest read and perhaps lacks examples which newcomers may find easier to digest. We are all different, but it's a sad world where helping someone is seen as a burden, that said I would expect folk to put some effort in. Perhaps it's a result of the modern nanny state where people are spoon fed and expect someone else to look after them.
 
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Search has been disabled fer sooo long when it came back I had no idea knowing the way these sites are run I would have mailed folks to tell them... secondly some people prefer to ask rather than search for times sake post Q come back and see responses and many people are unable to find what they seek I know setting up a similar site (different subject) how many tutorials I did on how to do stuff this cut down the repeat questions but they still got asked ... being nosey/ concerned why I asked them what would make the forum easier for them to use verdict they simply liked to ask it gave a form of contact with other users rather than simply searching where sometimes more questions would be raised and bingo for a friendly forum you had several folks wandering the perihphery not learning getting frustrated and leaving to go elsewhere where people asked tham questions befriended them and they LEARNT.. and stayed :razz: lol ...


spoon feeding is not what I see it as I learnt more from these places than any book taught me until I knew enough to look deeper into stuff then books helped and these places confirmed or cleared up questions...

what I hate is lazy schoolies asking fer homework answers..... that really winds me up cos we had to research (oh there's the search word) everything
 
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Yv said:
Before this goes off on thread likely to put the newcomers off, can I remind you that the 'Talk Basics' forum was started specifically so people can ask those real simple questions that the rest of us take so much for granted.
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If all these questions were only in Talk Basics then this would be a very valid point. But these types of question crop up in all sections on a daily basis.

If someone is asking a simple question about settings on a specific model.. would you prefer that those with no experience of that model ignored the question, or that they directed the person asking the question towards the likely section of the manual that might provide an answer quicker?

It isn't the simple questions that are promting abrupt replies. It's the questions where the person asking them is almost (or actually) openly acknowledging that it's easier to type a throwaway question than have a basic look for themselves.
 
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This thread is a classic example of how people who have belonged to a forum for a long time start to view newcomers (believe me, I see it on other forums too). From the OPs original post anyway.

Some people like to read books/manuals to get their answers, some people like to ask questions to get their answers. It is part of forum life, people ask questions, and it is inevitable that the same question will get answered time and time again, even if they are the simple ones. Which can be simply ignored by people who are irritated by them.

Well, that is my opinion anyway.
 
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AliB said:
Sorry Yv but it's not a case of just not visiting that section, I navigate my way from the home page and rarely pay any attention to which section things are posted in. :)

I fully appreciate that not everyone learns in the same way but the internet and forums does definately encourage lazyness. It's not just photography forums that suffer from it.

It IS frustrating when you see the same question being posted for the 100th time. And it does mean that I don't answer them so where is the benefit in that?
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Well you can't really blame the forum for the way you browse it in fairness, we have done what we can to make it easy for all concerned, the freshers with no idea all the way to the pro's with every idea. This issue of the same question being repeated a hundred times was the spark for the Basics section. You say yourself its an internet wide thing - yes, it is, so its pointless moaning about it, because that moan might just be read by the next 'Edinburgh Gary' and they walk away before they have even started.

FWIW by way, many of those oft repeated questions are answered by the same people that were asking that question a few months earlier and thus the cycle continues.



In terms of what Alex is saying about laziness.... when I was 16, I regularly flouted 'lights out' rules by reading under the sheets with a torch. These days teenagers will be found with the laptops/netbook burning their retinas at 2am - for the vast majority of people the internet IS the source of information and learning and whilst you could argue that the info is there, go google it, is it really so bad they ask on a dedicated forum where there is a chance they will be pulled in and learn a love for our hobby [and/or profession] that just reading a dreary pdf wouldn't do?

Don't get me wrong, yes, there are times when I find it equally frustrating, but I try and remember the number of times I asked questions when the manual made no sense and google returned 20 answers, all different!
 
AliB said:
Sorry Yv but it's not a case of just not visiting that section, I navigate my way from the home page and rarely pay any attention to which section things are posted in. :)

I fully appreciate that not everyone learns in the same way but the internet and forums does definately encourage lazyness. It's not just photography forums that suffer from it.

It IS frustrating when you see the same question being posted for the 100th time. And it does mean that I don't answer them so where is the benefit in that?
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I'm sorry but you need to look what section things are posted in- its not difficult, a lot easier than reading a manual. Then if you dont want to help with basics just ignore the questions.

I have really appreciated the help I received from people on here when I first got my DSLR. Now, hopefully I will be able to give something back to the forum by helping others.
 
Alastair said:
If all these questions were only in Talk Basics then this would be a very valid point. But these types of question crop up in all sections on a daily basis.

If someone is asking a simple question about settings on a specific model.. would you prefer that those with no experience of that model ignored the question, or that they directed the person asking the question towards the likely section of the manual that might provide an answer quicker?

It isn't the simple questions that are promting abrupt replies. It's the questions where the person asking them is almost (or actually) openly acknowledging that it's easier to type a throwaway question than have a basic look for themselves.
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If it is a genuinely basic quesion, rtm it, it can be moved - if its something that has been asked before but more advanced than basics, is it SO difficult to point someone politely at a different thread?

This is an internet forum, moaning about repeat questions, threads and comments wont stop it happening - deal with them politely or move to next thread. Seemples
 
Alex, I think I understand where you are coming from on this. I have been watching 2 threads over the weekend where the op's have been asking very basic questions, one was wanting too set up in business and was asking about basic kit and such likes while the other had a website offering a service and yet didn't understand the basics of what they were offering and even seemed not to have some of the basic kit but was willing to take money.

As you said, people generally do not mind helping people who put some effort in, even if they say I have looked at x,y,z but still do not understand, but to go I want to do this, what settings do I need seems a little lazy to me.
 
Sectionate said:
This thread is a classic example of how people who have belonged to a forum for a long time start to view newcomers (believe me, I see it on other forums too). From the OPs original post anyway.

Some people like to read books/manuals to get their answers, some people like to ask questions to get their answers. It is part of forum life, people ask questions, and it is inevitable that the same question will get answered time and time again, even if they are the simple ones. Which can be simply ignored by people who are irritated by them.

Well, that is my opinion anyway.
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you have no idea how i see newcomers, it's been mentioned again and again about people asking the same questions which i've never mentioned

you also have no idea how much i help people on and off the internet and for how long i've been doing it.

so i find what you're saying a bit judgemental unless you're generalising about people and not inferring that i'm like that in any way?
 
Davec223 said:
Alex, I think I understand where you are coming from on this. I have been watching 2 threads over the weekend where the op's have been asking very basic questions, one was wanting too set up in business and was asking about basic kit and such likes while the other had a website offering a service and yet didn't understand the basics of what they were offering and even seemed not to have some of the basic kit but was willing to take money.

As you said, people generally do not mind helping people who put some effort in, even if they say I have looked at x,y,z but still do not understand, but to go I want to do this, what settings do I need seems a little lazy to me.
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medal.
 
Oh as its sort of relevent, its always worth pointing people at the tutorials already here too, because there is no point them being there and people writing them if they dont get referred to ;)


edit: quick idea - in terms of actual camera skills - is it just me that wonders why manufacturers have never bothered to include a basics book in with the packaging? So many people these days jump straight from a fully auto P&S to a dslr, why not a simple pamphlet that explains what aperture, shutter speed and ISO are and do? The manuafcturers have created the consumer market in low end dslr cameras yet seem to do little to help - pretty sure they can afford such luxuries without adding yet another 10% to the cost. I realise this doesn't begin to cover some of the oft repeated questions, but it might help a lot of people to learn a lot quicker.
 
agreed ^ i think this was also brought up in what people would like to see from the site if i remember correctly :)
 
alexkidd said:
you have no idea how i see newcomers, it's been mentioned again and again about people asking the same questions which i've never mentioned

you also have no idea how much i help people on and off the internet and for how long i've been doing it.

so i find what you're saying a bit judgemental unless you're generalising about people and not inferring that i'm like that in any way?
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I don't, I made a general assumption about you to make a point how all forums end up going down the same path of getting annoyed with the same questions being asked. Nothing was aimed at you...
 
Despite reading and looking up information I find that a lot of times I do not understand what I'm reading. I STILL have no idea what I'm doing (or that's what it feels like) and going out taking pictures makes me nervous (I do not enjoy it that much). I guess the settings and hope they are right.

I am new to photography and when I was told about this site I was also given a link and was told to read it, I printed it out and (don't anyone laugh at me :bat:) made myself a "photography file". So every time I find more information I print it out and stick it in the file. :rules: I have RTFM, more than once! My camera manual is kept on hand at all times.

You might consider a lot of my questions stupid, but just because I ask stupid questions does not mean I want to be spoon fed! I am here to learn, I want to learn and I’m sorry that it is causing frustration to the experts.
 
Smokeyj said:
Despite reading and looking up information I find that a lot of times I do not understand what I'm reading. I STILL have no idea what I'm doing (or that's what it feels like) and going out taking pictures makes me nervous (I do not enjoy it that much). I guess the settings and hope they are right.

I am new to photography and when I was told about this site I was also given a link and was told to read it, I printed it out and (don't anyone laugh at me :bat:) made myself a "photography file". So every time I find more information I print it out and stick it in the file. :rules: I have RTFM, more than once! My camera manual is kept on hand at all times.

You might consider a lot of my questions stupid, but just because I ask stupid questions does not mean I want to be spoon fed! I am here to learn, I want to learn and I’m sorry that it is causing frustration to the experts.
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The only stupid question is the one you keep in your mind and never put a voice to.
Keep asking away. As has been said, in time you will be the one answering and not asking (well not so much, as we are all always learning):)
 
making a photography file is a great idea as is looking up stuff and trying to learn, coming here and asking questions isn't stupid

imho getting your camera out of the box, putting it on a table and then logging onto this site and then asking how do i turn it on without even attempting to do your own footwork would be :)
(as an example)

this thread is in no way meant to make newcomers feel unwanted and i'm interested in the views of the newcomers as well as the oldies :)
 
Yv said:
quick idea - in terms of actual camera skills - is it just me that wonders why manufacturers have never bothered to include a basics book in with the packaging?
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Because the cost of adding a pointless 'How to take stunning pictures' manual (that the majority of people would not read anyway) would suck millions of ¥ from their profit every year?
 
PsiFox said:
The only stupid question is the one you keep in your mind and never put a voice to.
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If you ask a question that you could have answered yourself just by thinking about what you just said, that's pretty stupid.
 
Smokeyj said:
Despite reading and looking up information I find that a lot of times I do not understand what I'm reading. I STILL have no idea what I'm doing (or that's what it feels like) and going out taking pictures makes me nervous (I do not enjoy it that much). I guess the settings and hope they are right.

I am new to photography and when I was told about this site I was also given a link and was told to read it, I printed it out and (don't anyone laugh at me :bat:) made myself a "photography file". So every time I find more information I print it out and stick it in the file. :rules: I have RTFM, more than once! My camera manual is kept on hand at all times.

You might consider a lot of my questions stupid, but just because I ask stupid questions does not mean I want to be spoon fed! I am here to learn, I want to learn and I’m sorry that it is causing frustration to the experts.
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Jackie, this thread isn't aimed at you or other newbies at all , read all of post 27, its my post plus the op's answer.

People really do not have an issue helping people, but certain questions where the answer is the very basics of photography, being asked by people who are willing to take money for a service that they, in all honestly, can not provide is what this thread is about.


Keep asking questions Jackie, we will help.
 
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Voyager said:
If you ask a question that you could have answered yourself just by thinking about what you just said, that's pretty stupid.
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No because we don't know the "questioner" and don't know what they are capable of figuring out.

Just because you can work that out doesn't mean someone else can.

If we make people afraid to ask, then we are doomed not just as a forum but as a race.:(
 
If someone hasn't grasped how their camera works are they able to search threads on a forum to find the answers anyway? They might not be lazy just not technically minded at all. For some people posting on a forum is a hard thing for them to do. Not everyone is computer literate.

Also I get the feeling that those that are complaining about beginners earning money from photography are slightly jealous as those beginners are just going out and giving it a go. Some people like to know a lot about an area before offering services and others are more likely to jump in and see what happens. Those that jump right in might actually be perfectly capable of producing good pictures despite lack of technical knowledge. You can be a good driver without knowing how an engine works so I'm sure there are people out there that can take good pictures without knowing their isos from their apertures...

It's the nature of a forum that new people arrive and ask the same questions that have been asked before. If it bothers you that much then ignore them :)
 
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