Lastolite HiLite & Lencarta SmartFlash

OK all this stuff is made in China, BUT, and its a big one, the Chinese will make whatever is specified. If Lencarta put a decent spec forward (lots of capacitors etc) then the Chinese will make it and it will be quality. If company B spec one capacitor and cheap and nasty the Chinese will make it.

The Chinese stuff these days can be of the very highest quality or rubbish, they will make what they are asked to. I just found it interesting that the casing was the same.

Oh and I think most studio flash heads are made in China, so product A vs product B is all about spec, reputation and back up service, where they are made makes little difference.
 
HoppyUK said:
Not meaning to be snide at all, but out of genuine interest, what exactly is Lencarta's input into the production of the SmartFlash?

Who designed it?
Who manufactures it?
Who assembles it?

Not that I think it necessarily makes any difference to the final product, apart from probably making it good value, I'm just nosey :)
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It was designed by German engineers, basically to meet the spec I gave them, although some minor compromises had to be made because the price had to be competitive.

It's assembled by Jinbei, using a mix of Lencarta components and Jinbei common parts, i.e. the case is theirs (or at least is made in the same mould) the control panel and the PCB.

BTW, I can't even accept that the Jinbei one sold in the U.S. is cheaper than Lencarta - as we all know, their price of US$119.95 would almost certainly end up as £119.95 if it was sold here (H.M. Government can explain the reasons for that) AND they don't even include a reflector, so add another £20 for a reflector and you end up with...

OK all this stuff is made in China, BUT, and its a big one, the Chinese will make whatever is specified. If Lencarta put a decent spec forward (lots of capacitors etc) then the Chinese will make it and it will be quality. If company B spec one capacitor and cheap and nasty the Chinese will make it.

The Chinese stuff these days can be of the very highest quality or rubbish, they will make what they are asked to. I just found it interesting that the casing was the same.

Oh and I think most studio flash heads are made in China, so product A vs product B is all about spec, reputation and back up service, where they are made makes little difference.
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Agreed. Just about everyone, including the very best name, has at least some of their flash heads made in China. It's all about components, spec & quality control, not location.
 
Garry Edwards said:
<snip>


Agreed. Just about everyone, including the very best name, has at least some of their flash heads made in China. It's all about components, spec & quality control, not location.
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It's true, China pretty much rules manufacturing these days. As Dave says, they will make anything you want, and they can match any standard of quality, not just the spec.

Tripods are a good example. They're almost all made in China now, though most brands seem rather coy about it. Giottos, with that Italian sounding name and ads all about Leonado Da Vinci - Chinese. Slik, who also make RedSnapper - Chinese. Some Manfrotto stuff is made in China.

About the only big tripod brand that doesn't appear to be made in China is Gitzo, but just look at their prices - over £400 for a basic carbon tripod. How long can they get away with that when extremely high quality copies (Benro, Induro, Triopo etc etc) sell for only half?
 
Garry Edwards said:
...
You won't find Lencarta selling any ordinary Jinbei flash heads and you won't find Jinbei or anyone else selling any Lencarta flash heads.
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Once again, nothing against Lencarta but I don't like the tone here. Whatever the differences between Jinbei and Lencarta might be, the "ordinary" thing about Jinbei is that they build flash heads since 1995, are innovative and have have quite few product lines to choose from, are reliable and very affordable.

Beside this it is, to which degree ever, a "sourcing" entity for Lencarta in terms of parts, assembly and accessories - and once again, there is nothing wrong about this per see.

However, in practical use, I do not see any advantage of Lencart over Jinbei flash heads since, as mentioned before, the latter are very reliable as well. - Well, I have to admit, I did not test the entry level QQ series which shares the case with the small Lencarta ones. Anyway, with Jinbei "DM", "DP" and "RD" at hand I can tell that if they are "ordinary", they are ordinary in a pretty decent way... :thumbs:

On the other hand, a possible proposition for me to buy Lencarta would be to have - what I assume - a good after sales service and reasonable s&h costs (compared to a UK customer ordering Jinbei gear from NL or Asia).

All this said, a reliable 200/250Ws head is just a reliable 200/250Ws head and no matter which brand, it will send out similar photons...
 
diogenes said:
Once again, nothing against Lencarta but I don't like the tone here. Whatever the differences between Jinbei and Lencarta might be, the "ordinary" thing about Jinbei is that they build flash heads since 1995, are innovative and have have quite few product lines to choose from, are reliable and very affordable.
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This wasn't intended as any kind of slur on Jinbei products.
Jinbei are a very large Company in this field (the largest in China?), highly succesful and their quality is fine. In fact, they are the No.1 brand within China and I understand that most of their sales are internal, which means that they have a good reputation for quality etc - many of the Chinese flash manufacturers only export their products, which end up being sold under a variety of names in a variety of different countries, made down to a price instead of up to a standard.

My guess is that most of the people reading this forum can only guess at what quality standards are really like in other countries. I have visited Jinbei's factory (and not as an honoured guest for 5 minutes either) and have seen exactly how things are done there, and at other well run factories. The workers are held responsible for the quality of their work, so if there are any problems then they come back and bite them - because of this, and the pride that people have in their work anyway, they make sure that their work exactly meets the standard set for it. Long and detailed discussions with their technical people have convinced me that they are very serious about their work too.

The Jinbei factory produces specialised items for other well known companies too. I could (but won't) name at least two well known manufacturers whose products (or at least some of them) are assembled in Shanghai by Jinbei. As I see it, that's fine - but why are some people accusing Lencarta of selling re-badged Jinbei goods (which isn't true) and not accusing these other, but bigger, more expensive and better known manufacturers, of doing the same?

I don't know the answer to that one, I believe that I do know how these stories started, and think that other people are now just spreading the story around - it's what happens on the internet... As Harold Wilson once famously said, "A lie has travelled half way around the world before truth has put her boots on".

My reference to 'ordinary' Jinbei products wasn't a criticism of those products. It was a reference to the fact that Jinbei produces a large range of products, aimed at very different customers, ranging from very cheap flash heads designed for people just starting out to pretty high end stuff, made for the massive commercial studios that are common in China.
 
Garry,

thanks for clarifying this; looks like we just had a missunderstanding. ;)
 
Garry Edwards said:
This wasn't intended as any kind of slur on Jinbei products.
Jinbei are a very large Company in this field (the largest in China?), highly succesful and their quality is fine. In fact, they are the No.1 brand within China and I understand that most of their sales are internal, which means that they have a good reputation for quality etc - many of the Chinese flash manufacturers only export their products, which end up being sold under a variety of names in a variety of different countries, made down to a price instead of up to a standard.

My guess is that most of the people reading this forum can only guess at what quality standards are really like in other countries. I have visited Jinbei's factory (and not as an honoured guest for 5 minutes either) and have seen exactly how things are done there, and at other well run factories. The workers are held responsible for the quality of their work, so if there are any problems then they come back and bite them - because of this, and the pride that people have in their work anyway, they make sure that their work exactly meets the standard set for it. Long and detailed discussions with their technical people have convinced me that they are very serious about their work too.

The Jinbei factory produces specialised items for other well known companies too. I could (but won't) name at least two well known manufacturers whose products (or at least some of them) are assembled in Shanghai by Jinbei. As I see it, that's fine - but why are some people accusing Lencarta of selling re-badged Jinbei goods (which isn't true) and not accusing these other, but bigger, more expensive and better known manufacturers, of doing the same?

I don't know the answer to that one, I believe that I do know how these stories started, and think that other people are now just spreading the story around - it's what happens on the internet... As Harold Wilson once famously said, "A lie has travelled half way around the world before truth has put her boots on".

My reference to 'ordinary' Jinbei products wasn't a criticism of those products. It was a reference to the fact that Jinbei produces a large range of products, aimed at very different customers, ranging from very cheap flash heads designed for people just starting out to pretty high end stuff, made for the massive commercial studios that are common in China.
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I think you're being over-sensitive Garry. I find all this very interesting and don't believe for a moment that the Lencarta product is the same inside as the Jinbei (which I pointed out above) but you have made a bit of a marketing gaff by not changing the casing - it 'looks' the same, and people always judge a book by its cover whether they should do or not. If you think this kind of comment is damaging, as opposed to merely irritating, then you should change the casing (and it does look rather like a small pig :D *).

To take another example, I think most people know that the VAG cars of VW and Audi and Skoda/Seat etc, not to mention Bentley and Lambo, share many/most mechanical components. But they look completely different and they work very hard on marketing individual brand identities. As a result, if you try to tell a Bentley owner that their car is basically a tarted up VW Phaeton (which it is) they will likely try to kill you.

If they'd done it the other way round, with identical body designs but completely different mechanical components, people would think they were all the same car! If you see what I mean ;)

* And sort out that modeling light at the same time ;)
 
I think you're being over-sensitive Garry. I find all this very interesting and don't believe for a moment that the Lencarta product is the same inside as the Jinbei (which I pointed out above) but you have made a bit of a marketing gaff by not changing the casing - it 'looks' the same, and people always judge a book by its cover whether they should do or not.
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I agree.
The problem is cost, it's far cheaper to use common parts such as casings than to design and tool completely new ones, and a business that has limited resources has to decide just where to spend those resources - a new case that nobody else is using or better critical components?

The other choice was to go for a metal case, which doesn't need any expensive tooling (much cheaper but very difficult to get one that meets EU as opposed to country of origin safety standards), again the choice was to put safety before cost savings.

But Lencarta is growing, and I don't see these problems (or perceived problems) lasting much longer...
 
First thoughts:

+ve
- Everything worked out of the box.
- The flash heads are satisfyingly simple to use.
- I liked receiving a transmitter/receiver that can be used with pretty much any hot shoe/off camera flash combination was an added bonus.
- Nice long power cables mean no messing around with extension leads.

-ve
- The modelling bulbs don't fit very well.
- It would have been nice to have some instructions in the box - mainly for putting the softboxes together.

Hopefully I have a model coming in on Wednesday to try this set-up out, so hopefully I'll have some images to share with you shortly afterwards. It might be a case of all the gear no idea ***, I'm afraid.
 
ed_o_brain said:
First thoughts:

+ve
- Everything worked out of the box.
- The flash heads are satisfyingly simple to use.
- I liked receiving a transmitter/receiver that can be used with pretty much any hot shoe/off camera flash combination was an added bonus.
- Nice long power cables mean no messing around with extension leads.

-ve
- The modelling bulbs don't fit very well.
- It would have been nice to have some instructions in the box - mainly for putting the softboxes together.

Hopefully I have a model coming in on Wednesday to try this set-up out, so hopefully I'll have some images to share with you shortly afterwards. It might be a case of all the gear no idea ***, I'm afraid.
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The softbox instructions are on the website
As a matter of interest, in what way do the modelling lamps not fit well?
 
Garry Edwards said:
The softbox instructions are on the website
As a matter of interest, in what way do the modelling lamps not fit well?
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Yes.. I found the softbox instructions on the website. It was more the convenience of not having in them in the box I missed.

Screwing the bulbs into the flash head... it's not a very positive feel so it was difficult to determine whether they were threaded straight and also when they were threaded in far enough. Also, the actual glass on the bulbs isn't mounted square on, so it's difficult to tell again if you are threading them in a the right angle.
 
If that is just 2 heads and no pp then the lighting is very even, maybe I dont needa 3 head outfit!!!

Where were the lights placed, settings etc?
 
I'll draw a diagram when I have chance. That was with three heads. Two illuminating the hi-light and 1 keylight.

I think having a fourth to make a fill light would have been better. I used some light/simple PP to even things out. And to be honest, the viewing angle on my monitor is vertically so acute, it was hard to tell how even the lighting was.

I bought a light meter too, which I think turned out to be a great investment in terms of getting the lighting evened out. And, when processing the raw file, dropping the exposure down and also increasing it are very good ways of highlighting where the lighting is creating high and low spots.

As I said in the Flickr comment, I think I could have down with stepping a bit further away from the background to reduce the lighting overspill on to my left (camera right) side - and when I have a model here tomorrow night, I'll be using the D700 (as oppose to the D90) hopefully making that possible.

Fingers crossed!
 
 
I have a stable imaging studio kit at the moment which consists of 3 x 180w lights that have a non standard fitment. I am replacing the lights next month with Lencarta ElitePro/Safari lights (still haven't decided completely). The old stable imaging kit was going to be sold but having seen a perfect one go for £150 I might as well keep them if I can use 2 of them to light one of the Hilite backgrounds. Does anyone know if 2 x 180w lights will be enough.
 
cowasaki said:
I have a stable imaging studio kit at the moment which consists of 3 x 180w lights that have a non standard fitment. I am replacing the lights next month with Lencarta ElitePro/Safari lights (still haven't decided completely). The old stable imaging kit was going to be sold but having seen a perfect one go for £150 I might as well keep them if I can use 2 of them to light one of the Hilite backgrounds. Does anyone know if 2 x 180w lights will be enough.
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ISO 100 and shutter speed of 160, I was getting between f/11 and f/13 for my background with plenty of juice left - so yes, keeping them seems a good idea.
 
ed_o_brain said:
Another go, this time with a model (no nudity!)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ed_o_brain/4642599723/
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You've done a very good job on the background but personally I feel that it's very important to create interesting (not bland) lighting on the subject, and your lighting on the subject is too flat and bland for my own taste.

Of course, it is just a matter of taste and what you've produced may be exactly what you want - if it was me though I would have experimented with the lighting to slim the face, create some interesting modelling on it and draw the eye to it.
 
I'll happily take suggestions on improving my technique!

Bear in mind I've not got a key light/fill light combination lighting the subject. Just one softbox. For this first shot, my main emphasis was getting the exposure correct (right amount of lighting on the subject, right level of lighting for the background) and then getting the framing and focus correct. If you look at my stuff on Flickr, most of it's static objects!

Thanks for the feedback all the same.
 
ed_o_brain said:
I'll happily take suggestions on improving my technique!

Bear in mind I've not got a key light/fill light combination lighting the subject. Just one softbox. For this first shot, my main emphasis was getting the exposure correct (right amount of lighting on the subject, right level of lighting for the background) and then getting the framing and focus correct. If you look at my stuff on Flickr, most of it's static objects!

Thanks for the feedback all the same.
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It's just a suggestion, not a criticsm...

White backgrounds do make it difficult to get interesting lighting on the subject, especially when most of the available lights have to be used on the background.

If there's a trick at all, it's to treat the background and the subject as two very separate subjects and to light them separately - i.e. set up the background exposure with NO LIGHT ON THE SUBJECT and aim for as near perfect a silhouette as you can, then turn off the background lighting and light the subject, lighting for effect (rather than just trying to get the right AMOUNT of light). Then combine the two, adjusting as necessary - but if you've achieved a perfect silhouette in your setup there should be little adjustment necessary.

With an extra light, I think I would have tried having the softbox light at a lower level and and a harder light above the softbox and square to the face, to put a harder and brighter light on the face from above - which would have defined the shape well. As you haven't got an extra light you could simply have the softbox higher and further away, or you could just have had it higher but with the lower part of the softbox masked with a white sheet or similar to create a broadly similar effect.

It's all down to experimenting and of course personal taste.
 
Thanks Garry.

I'm hoping to use this set-up for some simple family portrait work - when it's paid for itself, I'll probably buy a pro flash head and a beauty dish to use as a key light.

My model was certainly very pleased with that shot.
 
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