last nail in his coffin

the black fox

the black fox

Suspended / Banned
Messages
17,082
Name
Jeff
Edit My Images
No
just seen thistake that t*** .jpg


as its come out a bit small ,what it says is north Wales pub :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :wave::wave::wave:watch have banned Mark Drakeford from 100 north Wales pubs
 
Last edited:
Direct democracy in action? :naughty:
 
Yep it's terrible that the number of cases is rising and people are dying, but lets kick the hell off about having a pint? ...get real mate, it's not the only restriction and is just a small part of the effort in an attempt to deal with the virus.
 
the black fox said:
just seen thisView attachment 300488


as its come out a bit small ,what it says is north Wales pub :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :wave::wave::wave:watch have banned Mark Drakeford from 100 north Wales pubs
Click to expand...

I fear these types couldn't care less as they go for dining and fun to private country clubs and fly lolita express to Branson island, etc.
 
mex said:
Yep it's terrible that the number of cases is rising and people are dying, but lets kick the hell off about having a pint? ...get real mate, it's not the only restriction and is just a small part of the effort in an attempt to deal with the virus.
Click to expand...


It's probably because it has absolutely nothing to do with 'having a pint'.

It has absolutely everything to do with the stupidity of lockdowns and other measures that are forcing small businesses to close especially in the hospitality sector.

Some of these people have put their life,soul and everything they own into these businesses just to seem them destroyed by complete over reaction to this pandemic.

When we are born reaching old age isn't a 'given'. Life is all about risk assesment and every individual asses risks in no matter what they do; some are very risk adverse whilst others enjoy the 'gamble of life' and get a thrill from it.

I posted a link to an article in the Lancet the other day which shows that for anyone under the age of 40, the current estimate of death from the Coronavirus is 0.28% (Yes, two decimal places is an approximation when talking in millions).

Current statistics show that the chances of you being killed in a road accident during your life in the UK is 0.41% (1 in 240). This has been dramaticall reduced in the last thirty years.

In the US the chances of dying in a road accident during your life is 1.2%.

When was the last time you heard a teenager say - 'I'm not going to ever drive because the risk of dying is too high?

We accept driving can be dangerous but I say most accept this risk and do it anyway.

Now, how do we expect the under 40's to accept draconian lockdowns, the complete errosion of our freedoms, the destruction of the economy and more importantly their own businesses for odds that are almost half of dying from driving in the UK.

People will say 'they cause the spread of the virus' and that they are selfish; NO! It is the people in the vulnerable groups that are the selfish ones, why should the young and healthy give up everything to protect this group?

They can be advised what is sensible and what precautions they should take (social distancing, wearing masks etc) but to implement laws making them do this is just madness; make the vulnerable sheild; a significant proportion do not have to work for a living; if they consider the risk 'to high' then that is there choice not to partake in something, stay indoors and isolate etc STOP being selfish and expect society to be hugely erroded just to look after you.

The pubwatch ban is brilliant IMO; it probably will not have any effect but it shows that small business owners are thinking along exactly the same lines as I am - lets stop this over reaction and madness to this pandemic, allow people to use their own judgement on the risks THEY face rather than the stupid laws and police state being forced on us.
 
"lets stop this over reaction and madness to this pandemic, allow people to use their own judgement on the risks THEY face rather than the stupid laws and police state being forced on us."

@RWDW - the problem is this isn't a risk that THEY face it's a risk that everyone THEY come into contact with are also being forced to take, without the opportunity to say no thanks mate. The strain THEY put on the health service is out of proportion to the perceived reduction in their freedoms and has a knock-on effect to other patients that have to miss vital cancer or AIDS treatments or a miriad of surgeries. Hey, but that's okay 'cos I can still do my own thing. Think on too, they person that THEY pass the virus onto may be you ... or your close family and those innocent people may not survive.

Transmission of this virus is 99% by aerosols being passed from person to person so any measure that keeps people out of a social environment will reduce its spread. Personally, I'd be happy to see every pub in this country close permanently rather than see 10,000 more dead, if it can be avoided. From the data I have been helping to analyse over the past 6 months I can tell you that pubs, clubs, gyms and small shops are the worst places you can be right now. Before you ask, the company I work for have been carrying out research into the transmission of the virus for four major universities and DSTL.

Therer are thousands of "draconian" measures in law in this country - thou shalt not commit murder or take ones own life - being two of them. Do I hear you railing against those restrictions of your liberties? If I do the voice is very quiet.

Hundreds of pubs close every year even without this virus simply because people don't use them so what's this sudden urge to got down the local?

The death toll on our roads is in the region of 2000 - 2500 per year (and has been relatively static for the past ten years) whereas more than 50,000 people in the UK have died from this virus in the past nine months and is likely to rise to 75,000 by the end of March next year (unless effective mass immunisation can be rolled out before then).

Assuming that half of the UK population of around 64million is under 40, your 0.28% is 89,600 - you have to talk about this in real numbers not percentages because these are real people.

Unfortunately, your approach to this pandemic is all too common and demonstrates many of the things wrong in our society, where the I'm all right Jack attitude prevails. Personally, and I'm not too bothered if you find this offensive, I find your attitude makes you an arrogant, ignorant, self-centred, tosser with a crass disregard for your fellow man. It must be great having you as a friend but to be honest, if you were to get unlucky and contract this virus I'd be at the back of the queue walking away when the medics risk their own safety to come to your aid.

You are a disgrace to the human race.

MODS: Ban me if you like - it'll help keep my blood pressure down.
 
I think you’ve got R2D2 down to a tee.
 
Me and the missus have said we have no intention of going to pubs until 1st Feb at the earliest.
folk can make there own decisions tho, have beer and spray covid everywhere or sort this mess out quicker.
 
Bristolian said:
"lets stop this over reaction and madness to this pandemic, allow people to use their own judgement on the risks THEY face rather than the stupid laws and police state being forced on us."

@RWDW - the problem is this isn't a risk that THEY face it's a risk that everyone THEY come into contact with are also being forced to take, without the opportunity to say no thanks mate. The strain THEY put on the health service is out of proportion to the perceived reduction in their freedoms and has a knock-on effect to other patients that have to miss vital cancer or AIDS treatments or a miriad of surgeries. Hey, but that's okay 'cos I can still do my own thing. Think on too, they person that THEY pass the virus onto may be you ... or your close family and those innocent people may not survive.

Transmission of this virus is 99% by aerosols being passed from person to person so any measure that keeps people out of a social environment will reduce its spread. Personally, I'd be happy to see every pub in this country close permanently rather than see 10,000 more dead, if it can be avoided. From the data I have been helping to analyse over the past 6 months I can tell you that pubs, clubs, gyms and small shops are the worst places you can be right now. Before you ask, the company I work for have been carrying out research into the transmission of the virus for four major universities and DSTL.

Therer are thousands of "draconian" measures in law in this country - thou shalt not commit murder or take ones own life - being two of them. Do I hear you railing against those restrictions of your liberties? If I do the voice is very quiet.

Hundreds of pubs close every year even without this virus simply because people don't use them so what's this sudden urge to got down the local?

The death toll on our roads is in the region of 2000 - 2500 per year (and has been relatively static for the past ten years) whereas more than 50,000 people in the UK have died from this virus in the past nine months and is likely to rise to 75,000 by the end of March next year (unless effective mass immunisation can be rolled out before then).

Assuming that half of the UK population of around 64million is under 40, your 0.28% is 89,600 - you have to talk about this in real numbers not percentages because these are real people.

Unfortunately, your approach to this pandemic is all too common and demonstrates many of the things wrong in our society, where the I'm all right Jack attitude prevails. Personally, and I'm not too bothered if you find this offensive, I find your attitude makes you an arrogant, ignorant, self-centred, tosser with a crass disregard for your fellow man. It must be great having you as a friend but to be honest, if you were to get unlucky and contract this virus I'd be at the back of the queue walking away when the medics risk their own safety to come to your aid.

You are a disgrace to the human race.

MODS: Ban me if you like - it'll help keep my blood pressure down.
Click to expand...

While you watch the business crash and burn and getting accustomed to only shopping online, and probably mostly from Amazon and Tesco (even Debenhams is kaput) you think you will get to enjoy your private pension and retirement savings. Let me brake your illusion once and for all. This is what you will be eating soon, because it is coming directly from the people running your bank, credit card and even the government:

www.weforum.org

5 reasons we need to start nurturing – and eating – weeds

Weeds can help us readdressing food consumption, production and nutrition at the roots.
www.weforum.org www.weforum.org
 
Bristolian said:
"lets stop this over reaction and madness to this pandemic, allow people to use their own judgement on the risks THEY face rather than the stupid laws and police state being forced on us."

@RWDW - the problem is this isn't a risk that THEY face it's a risk that everyone THEY come into contact with are also being forced to take, without the opportunity to say no thanks mate. The strain THEY put on the health service is out of proportion to the perceived reduction in their freedoms and has a knock-on effect to other patients that have to miss vital cancer or AIDS treatments or a miriad of surgeries. Hey, but that's okay 'cos I can still do my own thing. Think on too, they person that THEY pass the virus onto may be you ... or your close family and those innocent people may not survive.

Transmission of this virus is 99% by aerosols being passed from person to person so any measure that keeps people out of a social environment will reduce its spread. Personally, I'd be happy to see every pub in this country close permanently rather than see 10,000 more dead, if it can be avoided. From the data I have been helping to analyse over the past 6 months I can tell you that pubs, clubs, gyms and small shops are the worst places you can be right now. Before you ask, the company I work for have been carrying out research into the transmission of the virus for four major universities and DSTL.

Therer are thousands of "draconian" measures in law in this country - thou shalt not commit murder or take ones own life - being two of them. Do I hear you railing against those restrictions of your liberties? If I do the voice is very quiet.

Hundreds of pubs close every year even without this virus simply because people don't use them so what's this sudden urge to got down the local?

The death toll on our roads is in the region of 2000 - 2500 per year (and has been relatively static for the past ten years) whereas more than 50,000 people in the UK have died from this virus in the past nine months and is likely to rise to 75,000 by the end of March next year (unless effective mass immunisation can be rolled out before then).

Assuming that half of the UK population of around 64million is under 40, your 0.28% is 89,600 - you have to talk about this in real numbers not percentages because these are real people.

Unfortunately, your approach to this pandemic is all too common and demonstrates many of the things wrong in our society, where the I'm all right Jack attitude prevails. Personally, and I'm not too bothered if you find this offensive, I find your attitude makes you an arrogant, ignorant, self-centred, tosser with a crass disregard for your fellow man. It must be great having you as a friend but to be honest, if you were to get unlucky and contract this virus I'd be at the back of the queue walking away when the medics risk their own safety to come to your aid.

You are a disgrace to the human race.

MODS: Ban me if you like - it'll help keep my blood pressure down.
Click to expand...

Steve,

Maybe have a read of this article as to why Lockdowns are draconian:

www.spectator.co.uk

Did Wales’s ‘circuit-breaker’ work?

On Monday morning Wales emerges from its 17 day ‘circuit-breaker’. Did it work? Not according to the rate of new infections. During the first 12 days – when Wales was in lockdown but England wasn’t – the epidemic seems to have grown far more quickly in Wales than it did in England. When Wales went
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk

I find it refreshing that 55 Tory MP's rebelled against the draconian Tier system (lockdown in all but name) and that the current lockdown most people have ignored and carried on as normal; it is not the way to deal with this pandemic and the population of this country are realising that.

If the economy is destroyed then there will be NO public money to invest in any of our health or other services so their will be alot more of the population die from other illnesses in the future.

How many people here would invest their life savings/time and efffort into a small business knowing there was a good chance that within 10 years ANOTHER pandemic will hit the country and it will bankrupt that business?

IF you like talking in REAL numbers then 60,000 fit able young men lost their lives in ONE DAY fighting for our freedoms - that is how 'expensive' they were to obtain!
 
Mr Bump said:
Me and the missus have said we have no intention of going to pubs until 1st Feb at the earliest.
folk can make there own decisions tho, have beer and spray covid everywhere or sort this mess out quicker.
Click to expand...

At this rate, you’ll be lucky to find a pub still in existence in February.
 
Again - talking real numbers; in 2018 - 623,000 people died in the UK in a single year and this is increasing by 3% per year.

The people that own small businesses are also REAL people who's lives and families are being destroyed.

The person being abused by their partner and forced to live with them 24/7 is also a REAL person.

The child being physically & sexually abused is also a REAL person.
 
Last edited:
RWDW said:
Again - talking real numbers; in 2018 - 623,000 people died in the UK in a single year and this is increasing by 3% per year.

The people that own small businesses are also REAL people who's lives and families are being destroyed.

The person being abused by their partner and forced to live with them 24/7 is also a REAL person.

The child being physically & sexually abused is also a REAL person.
Click to expand...

Are you a real person, Robert?
 
It is interesting to read conflicting views on this forum.

1) My business is suffering because of COVID lockdown - it is outrageous!
2) I don't care why UK supplied goods are more expensive* - I just want the cheapest for me, and everything I read in this capitalist focussed world tells me that cheap is good!

*inconvenient things like tax, that keep the NHS going
 
Last edited:
Bristolian said:
From the data I have been helping to analyse over the past 6 months I can tell you that pubs, clubs, gyms and small shops are the worst places you can be right now. Before you ask, the company I work for have been carrying out research into the transmission of the virus for four major universities and DSTL.
Click to expand...
I would be interested in this data.
Pubs and clubs I can understand to an extent, but people should still be distancing and wearing masks unless sat at a table whilst drinking and eating.
But from my experience of gyms, they are pretty much a solitary affair, most people training on their own, people who do train together have invariably arrived together, but are still not mixing with others. Numbers will be restricted to a low safe number and from what I have seen of gyms in news articles, tv and the gym I train at, alot of gyms have followed the guidance to make sure that people have plenty of room, even if it has meant removing some of the equipment. I know for a fact that for the gyms in my borough to be able to open after the first lockdown, they each had to pass an inspection from the local public health and that they get unannounced spot checks, to make sure that they are still following the measures. The gyms should also be providing cleaning and sanitizing materials for customer use before and after using equipment. But cleaning down after using equipment is basic gym etiquette anyway, so most regular gym users should already be wiping down after themselves anyway.
From talking to other gym users from other areas, so my gym isn't alone in this, people have to book a session using apps. The app for the gym I use tells me how many people are in the gym at a time, and how many people are on their way. When I hit the tab to say how long it will be before I get there, it updates. A Q code appears on my phone and I use that to check in at the gym and it registers on their computer. The same process for checking out when leaving. They also have a Q code for Track and Trace, so in effect they have two track and trace systems in operation and haven't had any requirement for members or staff to isolate or get tested as a result.
If other gyms are indeed are unsafe, apart from the gyms maybe not enforcing the measures, could it be their local public health department has failed to do their bit also.

As for small shops, they should also be following guidelines. Our local small shops only allow two people at a time, even our local Tesco Express which is far larger than any of the small shops only allow 2 customers at a time, everyone else queues outside and from what I have seen they all distance outside.
 
ecoleman said:
At this rate, you’ll be lucky to find a pub still in existence in February.
Click to expand...

maybe you are right but i am struggling with the concept of pubs in the UK and what they offer.
 
RWDW said:
NO! It is the people in the vulnerable groups that are the selfish ones, why should the young and healthy give up everything to protect this group?
Click to expand...

That comment alone sums you and LLP up as he liked it.
 
Mr Bump said:
maybe you are right but i am struggling with the concept of pubs in the UK and what they offer.
Click to expand...

In the normal times you would be free to setup your own model and show how it should be done, and possibly get very successful as a result. Try that now if you dare. The only thing I would be setting up now would be internet warehouse or medical testing lab if you want any chance of success
 
RWDW said:
IF you like talking in REAL numbers then 60,000 fit able young men lost their lives in ONE DAY fighting for our freedoms - that is how 'expensive' they were to obtain!
Click to expand...

I agree. It is not hard to imagine that Today's government would have raised a white flag to Hitler on day one and saved all those lives. Loss of freedom, rights and countless of lives in extermination camps, including forced medical experimentation by Dr. Mengele - that's of course only a small price to pay.

And before some looney accused me of being pro Hitler this is obviously a satire
 
For reasons that I believe are almost entirely political, I'm currently in tier 3.

If you look closely at the rules, the only real difference between tier 2 and tier 3 is that I have to meet friends in a public garden rather than my own garden and all our independent pubs, cafes and hotels etc will most likely never open again.

It's a small price to pay to keep that nice Mr Johnson in charge.
 
I can see where Bristolian is coming from with this BUT. Are you actually living in prison wales ... ? .. I can see England from my hilltop prison but I haven’t been legally allowed to go there in 3 months .. and I haven’t for fear of a fine and even if I did I would be out in the fresh air taking photos for excercise and sanity ..
A lot of people are criss crossing the border though so what’s the real answer .. I rarely drink although if we do go out for a meal I might have a shandy both of which will effectively be banned after 6 p.m this Friday . . By the time drippy drakeford has finished the only business that will be viable in wales will be beach pebble collectors and sheeps*** sellers .. plus I can see after xmas new bans and rules coming out due to Brexit .
Drippy drakeford keeps quoting saving the .n.h.s but under his control directly and indirectly for the last 5years it’s been in special measures ..
 
If it only affected them I would say fine open all the pubs and let them decide what risk they want to take But there action can and will effect other people should they catch the virous as they could pass it on to anyone they meet even touching a door handle can pass it on to some ordinary unsuspecting person who isolates as much as is possible.

To me that just isn't right.

Rob.
 
Not sure I've heard 'Drippy' use the word "save", often heard "protect" though. Bet you don't complain about free prescriptions or free hospital parking though :).
 
Bristolian said:
"lets stop this over reaction and madness to this pandemic, allow people to use their own judgement on the risks THEY face rather than the stupid laws and police state being forced on us."

@RWDW - the problem is this isn't a risk that THEY face it's a risk that everyone THEY come into contact with are also being forced to take, without the opportunity to say no thanks mate. The strain THEY put on the health service is out of proportion to the perceived reduction in their freedoms and has a knock-on effect to other patients that have to miss vital cancer or AIDS treatments or a miriad of surgeries. Hey, but that's okay 'cos I can still do my own thing. Think on too, they person that THEY pass the virus onto may be you ... or your close family and those innocent people may not survive.

Transmission of this virus is 99% by aerosols being passed from person to person so any measure that keeps people out of a social environment will reduce its spread. Personally, I'd be happy to see every pub in this country close permanently rather than see 10,000 more dead, if it can be avoided. From the data I have been helping to analyse over the past 6 months I can tell you that pubs, clubs, gyms and small shops are the worst places you can be right now. Before you ask, the company I work for have been carrying out research into the transmission of the virus for four major universities and DSTL.

Therer are thousands of "draconian" measures in law in this country - thou shalt not commit murder or take ones own life - being two of them. Do I hear you railing against those restrictions of your liberties? If I do the voice is very quiet.

Hundreds of pubs close every year even without this virus simply because people don't use them so what's this sudden urge to got down the local?

The death toll on our roads is in the region of 2000 - 2500 per year (and has been relatively static for the past ten years) whereas more than 50,000 people in the UK have died from this virus in the past nine months and is likely to rise to 75,000 by the end of March next year (unless effective mass immunisation can be rolled out before then).

Assuming that half of the UK population of around 64million is under 40, your 0.28% is 89,600 - you have to talk about this in real numbers not percentages because these are real people.

Unfortunately, your approach to this pandemic is all too common and demonstrates many of the things wrong in our society, where the I'm all right Jack attitude prevails. Personally, and I'm not too bothered if you find this offensive, I find your attitude makes you an arrogant, ignorant, self-centred, tosser with a crass disregard for your fellow man. It must be great having you as a friend but to be honest, if you were to get unlucky and contract this virus I'd be at the back of the queue walking away when the medics risk their own safety to come to your aid.

You are a disgrace to the human race.

MODS: Ban me if you like - it'll help keep my blood pressure down.
Click to expand...
Steve,
When you realise that the poster you replied to is nothing but a second rate troll your blood pressure need not rise again. Indeed it can become a source of amusement to see him spend so much effort to get a rise to little effect. Some people are not worth interacting with.
 
the black fox said:
and to cap it off its just been announced by the welsh health minister that they cant get the vaccine to welsh care homes .. total incompetence

you honestly could not make this shower of idiots up only had a few months to get ready
Click to expand...
You're stuffed anyway, it's being imported via England, so it won't be able to get across the Welsh border will it?! Wales to decide whether to allow cross-border travel with England (msn.com)

WELSH COVID RULES APPLY! ;) Iechyd da! (y)
 
the black fox said:
and to cap it off its just been announced by the welsh health minister that they cant get the vaccine to welsh care homes .. total incompetence

you honestly could not make this shower of idiots up only had a few months to get ready
Click to expand...

It looks like he's got a friend in bumbling Boris " Further authorisation is needed from regulators before residents and staff can receive the coronavirus vaccine in care homes, Boris Johnson has revealed."
 
As I understand it - this also applies to ALL care homes in the UK.

The vaccine comes in batches of something like 400 dose vials. Now as these have to be kept at Ultra low temps till thawed for the actual giving of the vaccine , it's kind of difficult to see how they are going to be able to get the vaccines to a one of perhaps 60 residents
 
camerassassin said:
The vaccine comes in batches of something like 400 dose vials. Now as these have to be kept at Ultra low temps till thawed for the actual giving of the vaccine , it's kind of difficult to see how they are going to be able to get the vaccines to a one of perhaps 60 residents
Click to expand...

I wonder how many experienced logistics experts the government have had working with the various vaccine makers, and for how long.

Just wondering.
 
camerassassin said:
As I understand it - this also applies to ALL care homes in the UK.

The vaccine comes in batches of something like 400 dose vials. Now as these have to be kept at Ultra low temps till thawed for the actual giving of the vaccine , it's kind of difficult to see how they are going to be able to get the vaccines to a one of perhaps 60 residents
Click to expand...

IIRC it's 975 doses. But if these are 'separate' containers then all it needs is someone with some insulated gloves to get in there and separate things.

*edit* it may come in 5 dose bottles, judging from the photographs on the BBC website.
 
Last edited:
Rapscallion said:
When you realise that the poster you replied to is nothing but a second rate troll...
Click to expand...
On a point of information: is a second rate troll more or less irritating than a first rate troll? :coat:
 
tijuana taxi said:
This POS reminds me of something a mate of mine once said about someone equally unpleasant
I'm not a violent person, but I'd like to give him a good kicking
Click to expand...
Indeed, and I've just noticed a new thing on the forum which deserves to be used on said post :):)
 
Im guessing all the anti lockdowners who are more concerned that the local pub go out of business have yet to lose a loved one to Covid and are the selfish f***wits that refuse to wear a mask or hide behind the b*****ks that they are exempt for health grounds so they dont have to look stupid lick every normal person wearing a mask. Until you wear one for 10 hours straight a day how hard is it to stick one on for the 10 minutes you spend in a shop and potentially infect someone vulnerable. I have lost count of the number of people that have told me that they dont have the virus so they dont need to wear a mask.

If you really believe that the government are putting lockdowns and tiers in place for the s***s and giggles of it you really do deserve to contract it and save the rest of the country. If you cant grasp that there is a balance trying to be achieved the do the country a favour and leave. The very people complaining now about lockdowns causing harm to pubs and businesses are the same people moaning lockdown was done quick enough in March. Cant have it both ways
 
AgentOrange76 said:
The very people complaining now about lockdowns causing harm to pubs and businesses are the same people moaning lockdown was done quick enough in March. Cant have it both ways
Click to expand...

For some of use it takes two weeks to realise the situation, for some - 2 years. That's just sad, but a fact of life. Don't worry you'll get there eventually too.
 
Rapscallion said:
Steve,
When you realise that the poster you replied to is nothing but a second rate troll your blood pressure need not rise again. Indeed it can become a source of amusement to see him spend so much effort to get a rise to little effect. Some people are not worth interacting with.
Click to expand...
AndrewFlannigan said:
On a point of information: is a second rate troll more or less irritating than a first rate troll? :coat:
Click to expand...


Ok; so you think I'm a troll - these are the views of a very eminent pathologist who has recently retired; have the decency to explain the difference in his views to mine?

Are they aiming for elimination? If so, it’s a new strategy – and a worrying sign of mission creep. Back in March, we were all requested to 'buy time' for the NHS to stop hospitals being overwhelmed by a sudden surge in cases. The idea back then, in so far as it could be divined, seemed to be that we would temporarily 'protect the NHS', then get used to living with the virus once the acute danger had passed. But over the last few months, while the science has become clearer, the politics has changed. Preventing a surge of deaths seems to have morphed into minimising the number of cases in all age groups, which is a completely different proposition.

So where does this comparison leave us with Covid? Recognition is difficult, isolation very difficult and comes at enormous societal cost. Which is why elimination is, almost certainly, impossible.

This means we must learn to live with Covid. 'Defeat' of the virus is a false and dangerous ambition. The very large proportion of the population for whom Covid represents a small new risk should allowed to get on with their lives normally. The proportion for whom Covid represents a larger risk should be presented with the information, encouraged to make their own risk assessments, and helped to take avoidance action (if that is what they wish to do: some may prefer to keep seeing and hugging their family and regard Covid as one of the many viruses that human-to-human contact can bring).

Taken from his article here:
www.spectator.co.uk

The dangers of a Covid ‘elimination’ policy

It’s understandable that, in a crisis, politicians reach for wartime metaphors – but they don’t always fit. There was the ‘war on terror’. Now we have politicians talking about the need to vanquish Covid-19. This is about more than language. There’s a big difference between a Covid-19...
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk


In a bizarre paradox, ill-directed efforts at protecting public health are creating a public health disaster.

When the outbreak began, the Government decided to shield the NHS, with the aim of maintaining its capacity for the imminent tidal wave of cases. All resources were focused on this goal.

From March, the treatment of other conditions and illnesses was put in abeyance for three months. And to this day, the NHS has not resumed anything like normal service. But the predicted Covid deluge never materialised.

Even now the fiercely disputed current Covid death toll of 41,628 is barely half the total fatalities of the 1968 flu epidemic in the UK.

The draconian lockdown, now in its second incarnation, also fuels poor health by the harm it inflicts on the economy – through poverty and unemployment – as well as by putting people in enforced isolation. It is a tragic fact that, as history demonstrates, higher suicide rates invariably follow declines in a nation’s GDP, particularly among the young – those least likely to suffer from Covid.

All of which makes it all the more frustrating that this callous, illiberal approach is built on such shallow foundations. There is precious little evidence that coronavirus was ever an exceptional threat to our nation’s wellbeing. In effect, the State has wildly over-reacted, partly as a result of being in thrall to scientists such as Professor Neil Ferguson with unproven theories and dubious modelling.


We may never know precisely how many people in Britain have died and will die of Covid-19, but we know the death rate globally is very low, between 0.1 and 0.5 per cent of those infected, according to research group Swiss Policy Research.

We know that the majority of deaths occurred in people with pre-existing conditions and we also know that in England, the median age of those who died from Covid is above 80.

Every death is sad but should the country have been brought to such an abrupt halt — with catastrophic consequences?



Of course, we are much more risk-averse today than in the Sixties, far less willing to accept death as our ultimate destiny or able to have a grown-up public discussion about it.


Are these views so much different from what I am saying?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top