Last minute wedding - advice!

[OptimusBri]

A friend of mine can no longer photograph a wedding this Saturday, and asked yesterday(!) if I want to cover it instead, so being me and never refusing anything, I said yes! I've been a photography/video assistant at a couple of weddings before, but have never photographed one by myself.

He passed my contact details on to a woman (who I think is the mother of the bride) who contacted me about the wedding. I only spoke to her on the phone today, and won't be meeting her until I arrive on Saturday. She said she has a really low budget so can't afford a pro photographer, but will pay me at least £60... It's an early wedding and as far as I can gather, doesn't last too long as she only wants me there from 10am as they get ready, to 3/3:30pm. I don't drive so am having to get taxis to the house where they'll be getting ready, then to the church, then home again, which is going to cost around £30. I was asked to do video as well but declined as this is all so last minute, I don't know if I'll have enough memory cards and it'll be a bit hectic carrying all the equipment round with me as well as trying to have enough time to take decent images as well. I'll be borrowing a Canon 5d MKII and Canon 24-105mm f/4 L lens from my University (this is the only lens they have for this camera, so I will have to make do.) as well as a flashgun, though I don't own a diffuser or anything similar for it. I have a Canon 350d with a 50mm f/1.8 and Sigma 17-70mm lens to bring as a back-up.

I have absolutely no idea how many photographs to send her afterwards. I don't really want to send lots as I'm barely getting paid anything, but by the sounds of it I can't really ask for much more money. I was originally quite looking forward to this, but I feel like it will end up being a bit stressful!

Any advice would be welcomed

 

[MWHCVT]

My only advise was see if you can talk a friend into being your taxi might save you a few quid and be a lot more reliable that a taxi don't want to miss a key moment even though your not really going to make money out of it at that kind of price...

Make sure you know what they're expecting out of you and they know what your providing, though I'm sure it will be a shoot and burn type thing

Oh and put that fire proof jacked on

 

[OptimusBri]

My only advise was see if you can talk a friend into being your taxi might save you a few quid and be a lot more reliable that a taxi don't want to miss a key moment even though your not really going to make money out of it at that kind of price...

Make sure you know what they're expecting out of you and they know what your providing, though I'm sure it will be a shoot and burn type thing

Oh and put that fire proof jacked on

Thanks Matthew. My flatmate drives but I don't think she's free on Saturday, and my other friends that drive don't live nearby, so I don't have an alternative option unfortunately.

I think I'll ring the mother of the bridge a ring again tomorrow just to clarify exactly what she wants me to do. I'm such a well organised person and like to be able to plan things, so this doesn't all sit well with me at the moment! How many photographs would you recommend giving (on disc, I assume?) - 30/50/100? I don't really want to hand over loads for so little money to be honest

 

[AndyB1976]

Can you not borrow any other kit from your photographer friend, even memory cards or batteries.

Maybe google shots to take for example.

For £60 ppffttt....just do your best, and then dump your pals

 

[OptimusBri]

Can you not borrow any other kit from your photographer friend, even memory cards or batteries.

Maybe google shots to take for example.

For £60 ppffttt....just do your best, and then dump your pals

I can't - he has to send his 5d MKII away for repair tomorrow

I know, it's barely any money, but what can I do - I can't cancel now that I've said yes! It's the same amount of money that she would have paid my friend too... I am going to try and ask for a bit more though!

 

[OptimusBri]

Oh and thanks for that link - it's very helpful

 

[gadgeteer]

Well firstly I think you have to consider this more as a freebie for experience rather than the money. So from that point of view I'd say hand over as many images as you see will tell the story of the day.

I'd suggest you make a shot list. So photo of dress...check. Flowers...check. Tick them off as you go on. If it's your first solo wedding you will be understandably nervous and you don't want to forget a shot. Even if you decide at the last second not to take the shot, at least it's a conscious decision.

 

[MWHCVT]

Thanks Matthew. My flatmate drives but I don't think she's free on Saturday, and my other friends that drive don't live nearby, so I don't have an alternative option unfortunately.

I think I'll ring the mother of the bridge a ring again tomorrow just to clarify exactly what she wants me to do. I'm such a well organised person and like to be able to plan things, so this doesn't all sit well with me at the moment! How many photographs would you recommend giving (on disc, I assume?) - 30/50/100? I don't really want to hand over loads for so little money to be honest

To be honest you'd be better of speaking to the bride, the MoB will want it all as shown with the video request you might find the bride want's a lot less and it's good to know you have actually satisfied exactly what the most important person on the day actually wants

At a guess I'd say maybe 15-20 Bridal prep and church arrival, 5-10 groom and grooms man pre-wedding at church, ceremony inc aisle and signing maybe 10-20 (depending on priest), B&G after wedding 5-10 inc. confetti if allowed and then finally the group shots that's dependent on how many they want (usually too many)

So based on you not covering after they all leave the church I'd be aiming to provide 55-100 photos if they have 20 group shot's though I'd try and avoid that many group shots as I'd bet they will not really have time for that many..

I'd do a batch B&W conversion and provide both and be done with it

not actually a wedding photographer by trade but have done a few family ones

 

[OptimusBri]

Well firstly I think you have to consider this more as a freebie for experience rather than the money. So from that point of view I'd say hand over as many images as you see will tell the story of the day.

I'd suggest you make a shot list. So photo of dress...check. Flowers...check. Tick them off as you go on. If it's your first solo wedding you will be understandably nervous and you don't want to forget a shot. Even if you decide at the last second not to take the shot, at least it's a conscious decision.

Well the money will cover my travel expenses, which was my main worry. I've had to change my work hours from Saturday to Sunday to do this, so I just want to make sure it will actually be worth my while.

Making a shot list seems like a good suggestion, I'll do that tomorrow then at least I can't forget anything (I hope!)

 

[OptimusBri]

To be honest you'd be better of speaking to the bride, the MoB will want it all as shown with the video request you might find the bride want's a lot less and it's good to know you have actually satisfied exactly what the most important person on the day actually wants

At a guess I'd say maybe 15-20 Bridal prep and church arrival, 5-10 groom and grooms man pre-wedding at church, ceremony inc aisle and signing maybe 10-20 (depending on priest), B&G after wedding 5-10 inc. confetti if allowed and then finally the group shots that's dependent on how many they want (usually too many)

So based on you not covering after they all leave the church I'd be aiming to provide 55-100 photos if they have 20 group shot's though I'd try and avoid that many group shots as I'd bet they will not really have time for that many..

I'd do a batch B&W conversion and provide both and be done with it

not actually a wedding photographer by trade but have done a few family ones

Okay, I'll try and get hold of the bride tomorrow. I'm not quite sure why it was the mother of the bride that has been organising this and got in touch with me anyway

Thanks, it's good to have a rough estimate of shots. It's very frustrating being in the dark at the moment and not really having a breakdown of the day and what's going on! All helpful advice - I appreciate it

 

[Johnny7000]

Surely she`s not expecting an albums worth of photos and your time for £60?
I`d be inclined to include 10 photos in the price then negotiate a price for anymore.
Your time is worth more.

 

[AndyB1976]

I can't - he has to send his 5d MKII away for repair tomorrow

I know, it's barely any money, but what can I do - I can't cancel now that I've said yes! It's the same amount of money that she would have paid my friend too... I am going to try and ask for a bit more though!

Well he may have lenses, cards or batteries he can give you?

Try and get to grips with the 5dII+24-105, your 350d won't cut it ISO wise so just bung the 50mm on that and use it as an emergency back up if needed.

If you need the flash get it on ETTL, you are going to have to bounce it off ceilings or walls where possible and where allowed.

 

[OptimusBri]

Surely she`s not expecting an albums worth of photos and your time for £60?
I`d be inclined to include 10 photos in the price then negotiate a price for anymore.
Your time is worth more.

To be honest, my instinct was to give 30 images. I just can't bring myself to hand over 100 or so images for it.

Well he may have lenses, cards or batteries he can give you?

Try and get to grips with the 5dII+24-105, your 350d won't cut it ISO wise so just bung the 50mm on that and use it as an emergency back up if needed.

If you need the flash get it on ETTL, you are going to have to bounce it off ceilings or walls where possible and where allowed.

I've already asked whether he has to send everything off with the body, so am waiting on a reply

I've used the 5d and that lens loads before and was planning to do exactly that - so for the actual photographing side of this I think I should be fine!

 

[adrian5127]

Ditto re talking to the bride to get a break down of the day and mobile numbers of the bride and groom.

I would also get a list of group shots and where they want them down as they have alreay been to the venue so they will have an idea of what is what. Also ask them to nominate an usher/bridesmaid to help organise everyone for the shots.

Do a google image search on the church and reception venue to give you an idea, sometimes you will come across wedding images done there.

Make sure they understand you will retain the copyright so you can use the images in your portfolio, website etc.

Re taxis I would make sure you tell them about this which might help getting some more money and ask when you next speak to them if someone can give you a lift from the brides house to the church and then to the reception. As Alfie said relying on taxis is a recipe for you missing key shots.

Good luck !!

 

[Jayst84]

Am I right to assume your mate who can't shoot it now, was doing it for free? What were they offering? I'm going to guess full coverage. Is it not safe to assume that now you've said you'll do it, that they will expect the same thing from you?

 

[OptimusBri]

Ditto re talking to the bride to get a break down of the day and mobile numbers of the bride and groom.

I would also get a list of group shots and where they want them down as they have alreay been to the venue so they will have an idea of what is what. Also ask them to nominate an usher/bridesmaid to help organise everyone for the shots.

Do a google image search on the church and reception venue to give you an idea, sometimes you will come across wedding images done there.

Make sure they understand you will retain the copyright so you can use the images in your portfolio, website etc.

Re taxis I would make sure you tell them about this which might help getting some more money and ask when you next speak to them if someone can give you a lift from the brides house to the church and then to the reception. As Alfie said relying on taxis is a recipe for you missing key shots.

Good luck !!

Great advice there Adrian, thank you. I have already told them about having to get taxis, which prompted her to say that they would give me at least £60, as she didn't say before. Hopefully I'll be able to get lifts with someone - it would make it a lot easier.

 

[OptimusBri]

Am I right to assume your mate who can't shoot it now, was doing it for free? What were they offering? I'm going to guess full coverage. Is it not safe to assume that now you've said you'll do it, that they will expect the same thing from you?

No, he wasn't doing it for free. By the sounds of it he hardly had any info about the wedding - I know more than he does! All he knew is that he would be getting paid a little for it, but he didn't know how much. The mother of the bride said that they were going to pay him about £60, which is the same as what I'll be getting paid.

 

[Cagey75]

Bit cheeky of them tbh, was that how little your mate was getting for same? [edit posted same time as you there, didn't see that extra info] They could be chancing their arm. I bet the mother of bride will spend more than that at the bar through the evening!

But, if you said you'll do it now, no point worrying about that side of it. Make sure you are free to use all images later for your 'folio. Do a good job and you may get some customers. Weddings often create new couples, and down the line they will remember you if you do a top job.

I've only done a couple as gifts for my sister's, so can't really advise much only: Don't stress, treat it like an extended portrait session. Don't fire off too many shots, be selective, but also anticipate - especially the key moments. Watch for the priest moving to get the holy water [to bless the rings] - get them lighting the candles, placing the rings, saying their vows and of course that first kiss when officially married. Don't be afraid to move up behind the priest on the altar. They never say anything, bounce flash and mix with the ambient lighting for less noisier images than having to pump ISO. Again, never seen a priest complain about flash. Weddings are private ceremonies, why would they care?

Relax, do your best, only give what you see fit as you're doing a massive favour here. You might end up getting more out of them on prints.

I would send them only small sized copies at first, and say it'll be £300 [at least] for the full res, fully processed.

 

[On the Huh]

Well he may have lenses, cards or batteries he can give you?

Try and get to grips with the 5dII+24-105, your 350d won't cut it ISO wise so just bung the 50mm on that and use it as an emergency back up if needed.

If you need the flash get it on ETTL, you are going to have to bounce it off ceilings or walls where possible and where allowed.

Make a bounce card if nothing to bounce from, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNCmuExlHvM

 

[Jayst84]

No, he wasn't doing it for free. By the sounds of it he hardly had any info about the wedding - I know more than he does! All he knew is that he would be getting paid a little for it, but he didn't know how much. The mother of the bride said that they were going to pay him about £60, which is the same as what I'll be getting paid.

Sounds like a mess.

Sixty quid is what I was meaning, expenses covered = shooting for free.

Anyway, just speak to the bride / whoever is in charge of 'organising' the photography. And speak to them today (well, tomorrow UK time I suppose). If they're expecting full coverage, then next week you give them 30 photos and say you're charging if they want any more - well, that's not going to end well.

You're doing them a favour, so they can't expect too much, but if you've already told them you'll do "it" they'll already have decided what "it" is.

As for transport, get yourself there, but then I would see about jumping in one of the wedding cars for moving between venues. Some of my favourite shots have been from inside the wedding car.

 

[popeyebilly]

If I was you, I wouldn't give them any photos they can use, just give them the proofs. Give them the amount you want to charge per photo plus your editing time etc and if they don't like it, tough. The £60 isn't enough to cover your time during the day (£10 ph). Have you made a contract? If they decided to sue you any judge would dismiss it over the little amount they are paying. It can cost 60 quid just for a portrait sitting in some places. If you havn't got liability insurance, I would stay away from that one. Seems like they want a lot for peanuts, and they may get funny with you afterwards.

 

[Cagey75]

I rode in the limo after the church to the hotel, got some nice ones of the B&G sipping champers [even had a glass myself ] . Once the mass is over, bumming a lift shouldn't be a worry, they only get a bit weird about it before the church if you try jump in with B&G or the bridesmaids

 

[OptimusBri]

Bit cheeky of them tbh, was that how little your mate was getting for same? [edit posted same time as you there, didn't see that extra info] They could be chancing their arm. I bet the mother of bride will spend more than that at the bar through the evening!

But, if you said you'll do it now, no point worrying about that side of it. Make sure you are free to use all images later for your 'folio. Do a good job and you may get some customers. Weddings often create new couples, and down the line they will remember you if you do a top job.

I've only done a couple as gifts for my sister's, so can't really advise much only: Don't stress, treat it like an extended portrait session. Don't fire off too many shots, be selective, but also anticipate - especially the key moments. Watch for the priest moving to get the holy water [to bless the rings] - get them lighting the candles, placing the rings, saying their vows and of course that first kiss when officially married. Don't be afraid to move up behind the priest on the altar. They never say anything, bounce flash and mix with the ambient lighting for less noisier images than having to pump ISO. Again, never seen a priest complain about flash. Weddings are private ceremonies, why would they care?

Relax, do your best, only give what you see fit as you're doing a massive favour here. You might end up getting more out of them on prints.

I would send them only small sized copies at first, and say it'll be £300 [at least] for the full res, fully processed.

Thanks for all your advice, I'll definitely take it on board The thing about pricing is, from what I gather, the mother of the bride contacted my friend (photography student, year below me) as she wanted someone to photograph the wedding for cheap because she couldn't afford a pro. So as I'm replacing my friend, I definitely can't turn around and ask for £300 - they just won't be able to afford it. I'll just have to give them only a small selection of images!

Make a bounce card if nothing to bounce from, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNCmuExlHvM

Thanks for this

 

[OptimusBri]

Sounds like a mess.

Sixty quid is what I was meaning, expenses covered = shooting for free.

Anyway, just speak to the bride / whoever is in charge of 'organising' the photography. And speak to them today (well, tomorrow UK time I suppose). If they're expecting full coverage, then next week you give them 30 photos and say you're charging if they want any more - well, that's not going to end well.

You're doing them a favour, so they can't expect too much, but if you've already told them you'll do "it" they'll already have decided what "it" is.

As for transport, get yourself there, but then I would see about jumping in one of the wedding cars for moving between venues. Some of my favourite shots have been from inside the wedding car.

Ah sorry, I misunderstood Yes, I'll definitely try and get hold of the bride tomorrow. Good point, but surely they can't expect me to hand over hundreds of photographs...I'll soon find out.

If I was you, I wouldn't give them any photos they can use, just give them the proofs. Give them the amount you want to charge per photo plus your editing time etc and if they don't like it, tough. The £60 isn't enough to cover your time during the day (£10 ph). Have you made a contract? If they decided to sue you any judge would dismiss it over the little amount they are paying. It can cost 60 quid just for a portrait sitting in some places. If you havn't got liability insurance, I would stay away from that one. Seems like they want a lot for peanuts, and they may get funny with you afterwards.

No, I haven't made a contract. I won't actually meet any of the people until Saturday, the first time I spoke to the mother of the bride was today! I don't have liability insurance either. It is all a bit of a mess to be honest.

I rode in the limo after the church to the hotel, got some nice ones of the B&G sipping champers. Once the mass is over, bumming a lift shouldn't be a worry, they only get a bit weird about it before the church if you try jump in with B&G or the bridesmaids

Okay, thanks for that!

 

[popeyebilly]

The main thing is to protect yourself in this whole thing. What would they do if there was nobody to replace your friend. They would have to dig deep and get a photographer that would charge more. Don't think they would cancel the wedding, so just explain that you are not a pro and they get what they pay for. Definately try to talk to them before Saturday and if they don't like what you say, let them look elsewhere, no loss on your behalf.

 

[cymruchris]

they just won't be able to afford it

How do you know this for sure?

Have they booked a lovely reception?

A meal for all the family and friends?

A nice wedding dress?

Etc.

Etc.

Etc.

Unless it's a Wedding with 5 guests in a registry office, the chances are that as much as they may not be 'rolling in it' - they should be able to squeeze to a little more than £60.

You should of course point out that images are edited after the Wedding day, and that all in all you may spend several days on the Wedding images..

As a result you believe you should be paid more than the minimum wage.

 

[Cagey75]

So true ^^

I've heard a lot of brides-to-be moan about the price of the photographer - yet think nothing on spending €1000 on a cake!! or €10,000 on the venue and food. The only thing left years after your wedding, for most, are the photos. Nobody should skimp on the photographer. So long as you're getting a hard-working, skilled, friendly photographer. I've also seen the other side, guys who charge an arm and a leg and then don't deliver what was expected. Those guys give the good 'uns a bad name before they even get started.

If I were you, considering the choices seem to be - do it, think of it as a freebie for experience - or turn it down - I'd do the former, but have it out with the bride beforehand. Have a meet or at least lengthy phone call, don't deal with her mother. Explain in detail what she can expect to get for basically free [after travel expenses] - don't promise much, in fact, don't specifically promise anything outside of the bare minimum. I'm willing to bet she'll come up with some more out of her budget for you.

 

[Jayst84]

As a uni student offering to help out a mate, Briony seems to have almost agreed to do it for expenses already (by taking over the job from a photographer who was doing it for the same - the job was, shoot this wedding for expenses) I don't think comparing to minimum wage and the usual CoB talk is all that relevant.

Even less relevant, as always, is what importance some stranger getting married, places on various aspects of their wedding.

 

[Gr8Shot]

Do the job for 10 photos and increase the price for the lot.
Like most people when they see all the photos they'll want them all.

 

[Nod]

10 6x4s with proof watermarked over them for £60. Or one 10x8, again watermarked! They really are extracting the poness, as said above, the chances are that they'll be spending more than that on the bride's shoes.

Best of luck with the day though, Briony - enjoy it as best you can.

 

[Gary Kinghorn]

This really sounds like a joke, although I'm sure it's not.

I'd be inclined to speak to the bride before hand and make sure there is a clear understanding that you have no liability if things go wrong. Get it in writing too obviously. For that money I wouldn't give prints either, I would give them a disc and let them sort themselves out. I know you won't have the ability to sell prints after but in my opinion you need to take this one in the chin, get it done and put it down to experience.

Take loads of shots and send them the best.

 

[neil_g]

I'd be inclined to speak to the bride before hand and make sure there is a clear understanding that you have no liability if things go wrong. Get it in writing too obviously.

if you do nothing else please do this.

things have a nasty habbit of biting you on the arse, its best to cover it by getting it in writing what is expected by both partys. even with friends...

 

[OptimusBri]

Thank you all for your advice and comments.

I've never written a contract for anything like this before! Is there a template I could use or anything I could base it on? Also, surely I would have to try and meet them tomorrow to sign the contract as I assume I can't really do it when I turn up to photograph the bride getting ready on Saturday morning?

 

[Cagey75]

Even less relevant, as always, is what importance some stranger getting married, places on various aspects of their wedding.

It is very relevant,what are you on about? If you're shooting their wedding, and they're splashing on all Bar the photos ... it is indeed relevant.

 

[paul_g]

I've only done a couple as gifts for my sister's, so can't really advise much only: Don't stress, treat it like an extended portrait session. Don't fire off too many shots, be selective, but also anticipate - especially the key moments. Watch for the priest moving to get the holy water [to bless the rings] - get them lighting the candles, placing the rings, saying their vows and of course that first kiss when officially married. Don't be afraid to move up behind the priest on the altar. They never say anything, bounce flash and mix with the ambient lighting for less noisier images than having to pump ISO. Again, never seen a priest complain about flash. Weddings are private ceremonies, why would they care?

That some of the worst advice I've ever read. Maybe its different in Ireland but in this country Vicars/Priests generally will not allow flash & don't even think of moving up behind the Vicar/Priest on the alter unless you want the embarrassment of being told to clear off or at worst being thrown out.

 

[neil_g]

That some of the worst advice I've ever read. Maybe its different in Ireland but in this country Vicars/Priests generally will not allow flash & don't even think of moving up behind the Vicar/Priest on the alter unless you want the embarrassment of being told to clear off or at worst being thrown out.

have to agree. check with the priest/vicar/etc on the rules pre-ceremony.

the registrars at the one we did said NO (the bold and underlined in their voice) flash or moving around too much during.

 

[boyfalldown]

That some of the worst advice I've ever read. Maybe its different in Ireland but in this country Vicars/Priests generally will not allow flash & don't even think of moving up behind the Vicar/Priest on the alter unless you want the embarrassment of being told to clear off or at worst being thrown out.

and speak to the priest first to find out what they expect

 

[Im Bald Ok]

You're a bit stuck if you've already agreed to shoot for £60. At the very least phone the bride and talk to her about what she wants and let her know what to expect from you, if you can, get it in writing. It seems a bit strange that she or the groom didn't contact you instead of the mother. You've agreed to shoot it so enjoy the day and make the most of it. You'll gain valuable experience without the pressure of having to provide a 1k service.

For £60, just send them a few images on disk with some simple, neutral, quick pping applied.

 

[OptimusBri]

have to agree. check with the priest/vicar/etc on the rules pre-ceremony.

the registrars at the one we did said NO flash or moving around too much during.

That's what I would have thought too. I won't get a chance to ask until I actually get to the ceremony though...

 

[gadgeteer]

I think you have a problem to resolve in your own mind first.

And that is are you doing this for the experience/portfolio? Or are you doing this for the money?

Because clearly if it is the latter then you've made a very bad deal and from what you've said you seem to value your time & expertise more than £60 for the day. And that's not a bad thing. I doubt most WW's would shoot a wedding for £60, let alone a pro.

So. If you are doing it for the experience then I'd say go...do your best and send them the best shots out of the day. Don't have a small limit in mind. Because it seems to me that the only reason you want to limit the amount of photos you want to deliver is to try to deliver the appropriate value to what they've paid you. In which case it won't work. I also wager the brides family will expect to see more than 30 photos for a full day.

If it's for the money then you have agreed a bad deal and as such you need to take it on the chin and learn from it.

The idea of using a student to photograph the wedding is textbook advice from the Internet forums. Go to the MSE website or any bride forum and that's one of the first suggestions if someone asks how to save money on their photographer. It's not a bad idea if you are truly skint but most just think they will get a pro at peanut prices. Their expectation will still be those glorious photoshopped images with sweeping backgrounds of the stately home and not the badly composed, underexposed shot of the registry office.