Last minute bidding on eBay

WP-UK

WP-UK

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Will
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Firstly, I think this is the right place to post but I apologise if not.

I am now a proud owner of a Nikon 17-55 2.8 but it wasn't a smooth process getting one.

I have seen a few go on eBay for anything from £500 - £700 and had been eyeing up from the first day it was listed.

All was going well and I was in the lead at £520 for the last 24 hours and had a high bid of £590.

In the last minute I watched intensely as I was winning and also kept refreshing the page despite it counting down live anyway.

In the last 1 second the bidding went to £620 leaving me shocked :eek:

I quickly checked the bidding history and despite it being a private listing I could see that apparently the bidding had been raised in £20 each time over the last hour of the auction yet this didn't show up on the auction itself, the price was still with me winning at £520 when at the same time 'someone' was pushing it up until in the last second they jumped from £590 to £620.

I have heard of this sniper bidding thing where automated machines put a bid in at the last moment but what really confused me is that the auction price was technically going up despite appearing to me (and presumably others) as me in the lead.

Never have I seen anything like this before, is it just me going mad or is something very strange going on.

Hope I made myself clear and thanks in advance!

Will
 
are you sure your page was refreshing correctly?

next time try CTRL+F5, it forces a load of a fresh copy instead of the chance of the page being loaded from cache.
 
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I've never heard of bids that didn't show on the auction, but I have seen bid sniping in action, it's very annoying as you don't stand a chance of winning unless you put in a higher bid than their maximum.

It's not really that much different from ebay's own maximum bid though, whereby you bid say £100 on something that's only at £46. Ebay will then bid on your behalf in increments of the minimum bid required to stay in the lead until the item is at the £100 level.
 
Would it be okay if I tried linking to the bidding history? To show you what I mean

What I haven't made clear is that on the 4th of Feb aparently the bids went up to £550 when to me it was still showing £521.11 which more to the point that price never shows up in the bidding history although thats what I was winning on for the last day?

Am I being incredibly thick?
 
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neil_g said:
are you sure your page was refreshing correctly?

next time try CTRL+F5, it forces a load of a fresh copy instead of the chance of the page being loaded from cache.
Click to expand...

Not so much of an issue due to the new system eBay uses, it automatically refreshes when the price changes in the closing minutes of the auction.

I'd maybe suggest WP-UK trying a different browser though. What you using atm?
 
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This simple system to employ when using eBay is that you must decide on your absolute maximum that you want to spend on the listed item and then put that bid in. Say the most you want to spend is $500 on a lens. You must be absolutely sure that this is the very maximum you want to spend and not regret losing it later because someone bid $501 and you lost out. Remember, the absolute maximum you want to spend and then set that amount.

Now, once you have ascertained that $500 is the maximum, you put that bid in but no one else can see that or knows what that maximum bid is. You may actually win it for much less than that as the automatic bidding system on eBay only puts in a higher bid from you when someone else bids higher than your last bid.

Example: You put your maximum bid for $500 and then another bidder attempts to put in a bid for $400, the automated bidding system ups your displayed bid to $410 (it may go up in $1 or $10 increments depending on the auction). The other bidder gets a message from the automated bidding system saying that he needs to bid higher than $410, which he may do and he may decide to go to $420, but your automated bidding system then automatically goes to $430 and so on up until your maximum bid has been reached of $500, only if the other bidder keeps bidding higher than the amount that the automated bidding system keeps showing him. You may actually get it for say $450 if no other bidder bids over $440.

It's simple and effective and means that you don't have to watch the bidding and you know that you wan't go over your maximum bid, ie Set and Forget. Normally, if I put a bid in like this, I will put a figure in of say, $521, as this means that a person will generally bid to a round number and then quit, like $500 or even $510 or may be even stretch it to $520 (as the Auction Bug gets them), but I will snatch it for a $1 extra, possibly.
 
My suggestion would be similar, work out your very maximum but instead put it in at the last possible moment, personally I use 10 seconds to go as that gives enough time for the page to load. But with the various sniper sites around that isn't a huge issue, just make sure you use a repetible one.

Personally I don't put my maximum in early on as I think that tends to unnecessarily raise the final price higher than if you just bid you maximum at the end of the auction. The automatic bidding system is useful, but I've found that if I bid for something early on and I'm out bid automatically that makes me bid again and again. So my thinking is it is exactly the same for other bidders if it is reversed and you are the highest bidder early on. Not point showing your hand too early, even if the price is hidden buyers can probe by bidding certain amounts.

Just my thoughts anyways.
 
Speed said:
My suggestion would be similar, work out your very maximum but instead put it in at the last possible moment, personally I use 10 seconds to go as that gives enough time for the page to load. But with the various sniper sites around that isn't a huge issue, just make sure you use a repetible one.

Personally I don't put my maximum in early on as I think that tends to unnecessarily raise the final price higher than if you just bid you maximum at the end of the auction. The automatic bidding system is useful, but I've found that if I bid for something early on and I'm out bid automatically that makes me bid again and again. So my thinking is it is exactly the same for other bidders if it is reversed and you are the highest bidder early on. Not point showing your hand too early, even if the price is hidden buyers can probe by bidding certain amounts.

Just my thoughts anyways.
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Yes, this is a good idea. Depending on my perceived belief of the popularity of the item depends on when I put my maximum bid in. If it looks to be a slow mover, I will just put the bid in early and then it is set and forget until I either win or lose it. If it is an item which looks to be popular, then I will put in a maximum bid late in the bidding as you suggest.
 
Lance B said:
Yes, this is a good idea. Depending on my perceived belief of the popularity of the item depends on when I put my maximum bid in. If it looks to be a slow mover, I will just put the bid in early and then it is set and forget until I either win or lose it. If it is an item which looks to be popular, then I will put in a maximum bid late in the bidding as you suggest.
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Indeed that is true as well, many a time I've wanted to bid on an item and it slipped my mind until it was too late. :lol:
 
Speed said:
My suggestion would be similar, work out your very maximum but instead put it in at the last possible moment, personally I use 10 seconds to go as that gives enough time for the page to load. But with the various sniper sites around that isn't a huge issue, just make sure you use a repetible one.

Personally I don't put my maximum in early on as I think that tends to unnecessarily raise the final price higher than if you just bid you maximum at the end of the auction. The automatic bidding system is useful, but I've found that if I bid for something early on and I'm out bid automatically that makes me bid again and again. So my thinking is it is exactly the same for other bidders if it is reversed and you are the highest bidder early on. Not point showing your hand too early, even if the price is hidden buyers can probe by bidding certain amounts.

Just my thoughts anyways.
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:agree:

Always snipe with 10 seconds to go, especially if my highest bid is a lot higher than the current price. No point in declaring your hand too early... Won a couple of things like that.
 
Hi all,

I understand about the maximum bid and sniping now but here is a link to the bidding history (hope you can see it) http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=220734343962

All the bidding was private however it says the bid was at £550 on the 4th of Feb when on my ebay yesterday (6th of Feb) it says I was winning at £521.11 when that never shows up on the bidding history?

That is the main thing that confused me that I thought normally when your bid is bid against and is risen due to a high bid I thought it showed up on the current bid however mine stayed at £521.11

Hope this has made it a bit clearer why I am confused
 
I'd report it, if you look at the auto bidding:
http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=220734343962&showauto=true
you can see your bid of 521.11 on the 4th, followed by a seemingly auto bid on the 6th? followed by a seemingly manual bid on the 4th of 550.
so something is awry on the automatic bid.

My first thought leans towards a bid of a higher amount on the 4th, which was then retracted. :shrug:
 
That is the thing that was concerning me most, it all seems very strange. I understand the last minute bidding but it was the fact that I was 'winning' with an amount that a. doesn't appear to show up and b. at a time when the actual bid was going up.

I will report it to eBay later on this evening when I get home but I haven't seen anything like that before but it all seems quite strange.

Or am I being to OTT? :shrug:
 
The autobidding is quite complex, but if you expand the hidden bids column, it makes a bit more sense. How many times did you bid on the auction. When you were sat at 521, was your highest bid £550 at that time which you later uprated to £590. That would explain some of the problems.

For example, look at this (which is from the bidding history):

£600.00 06-Feb-11 18:17:58 GMT
£590.00 05-Feb-11 18:08:50 GMT
£550.00 04-Feb-11 20:08:35 GMT
£540.00 06-Feb-11 18:17:58 GMT
£530.00 04-Feb-11 19:41:48 GMT
£521.11 04-Feb-11 19:41:48 GMT
£511.11 05-Feb-11 17:07:28 GMT

I interpret this as you made a bid of £530 on 4th Feb 19:41 and updated that maximum to £550 on 04 Feb 20:08 and you again upped it to £590 on 5th Feb 18:08. As at 5th Feb 17:07 someone else bid a max of £511.11 which was beaten by your bid of £530 on 4th Feb 19:41 and left the auction to you at £521.11. Someone then made bid of £600 (or higher) on 6th Feb 18:17 which then beat your £530, £550 and £590 bid hence why they are shown in the bidding (as if someone submits the same value, it's the earlier person who wins, so e-bay need to track when each bid was made).

Did you put 3 maximums on - it would appear so as the only reason for it not outbidding would be if it was the same person who put the three bids in. It does look like 2 people put separate bids in at exactly the same time (06-Feb-11 18:17:58) as you can see two different values if you look towards the top of the list...
 
arad85 said:
in. It does look like 2 people put separate bids in at exactly the same time (06-Feb-11 18:17:58) as you can see two different values if you look towards the top of the list...
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Couldn't that be someone being outbid and putting in a higher maximum bid? We've all been there.

I think we all get outbid on things, and sniped... I did twice last night on two different lenses. I'd just put it down to experience. If you wanted the lens that badly, put in a high final bid value which will win regardless (say a grand), or accept that you may get outbid.

As far as reporting to eBay, unless it's shill bidding (ie bidding from the same IP address to force to price up), I doubt they'll be very interested :)
 
I will take a close look tonight but will refrain for contacting eBay as it's probably me being dumb. I just wondered if anyone had experienced similar as I found it quote strange
 
It would be a bit easier to understand if the auction was not private, as you can at least distinguish a bid by the same bidder because of their feedback score.


If you wanted the lens that badly, put in a high final bid value which will win regardless (say a grand), or accept that you may get outbid.
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I'd say not a good idea, because of what you mention in your next sentence, shill bidding. If the seller or his buddy puts in a high shill bid, your bid will be jacked way up.


As far as reporting to eBay, unless it's shill bidding (ie bidding from the same IP address to force to price up), I doubt they'll be very interested
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The shill bidder would probably be sure NOT to use the same ip address, in case ebay watches for that. However, not sure how concerned ebay is about shill bidding, as it only increases their profits for auction. I'd say it is one of the biggest problems on ebay (no way to know how big, as I doubt ebay would report the frequency, if they had any idea about it in the 1st place), along with some of their rule and policy changes over the past few years.

With this being a private auction, it makes it even better for a shill bidding seller. You can't even see the feedback # of the bidders to try to even start to track, how convenient for them.

I'd try to avoid private auctions on ebay when possible. If you do bid on one, plan on paying very close to your max bid.

One way to combat (not defeat) shill bidding is to snipe. Then a shiller wouldn't have time to retract their bid. Still, if they just let their shill bid ride until the end of the auction (and just figure on eating the loss if it comes to that), and it is not enough to exceed yours (designed to increase but not exceed what the seller figures 1 or 2 bidders out there may be willing to bid), there's not much you can do about that.

http://www.hidbid.com is a good sniping service to use.
 
i never ever bid until the very last second, make sure youre logged in

I open 2 windows

first window shows the item with the countdown clock

2nd window i make a bid of my maximum amount and click on "bid now" i then enter my maximum bid and click on "continue" this brings up the "confirm bid" screen, i wait until the first screen countdown clock shows 2 seconds left then hit "confirm bid" on the other screen, ive never lost an item ive wanted yet.
 
WP-UK said:
I will take a close look tonight but will refrain for contacting eBay as it's probably me being dumb. I just wondered if anyone had experienced similar as I found it quote strange
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I think it can be explained very easily if you put 3 maximum bids in over a period of a day or so.
 
Gary Coyle said:
2nd window i make a bid of my maximum amount and click on "bid now" i then enter my maximum bid and click on "continue" this brings up the "confirm bid" screen, i wait until the first screen countdown clock shows 2 seconds left then hit "confirm bid" on the other screen, ive never lost an item ive wanted yet.
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That'll work - unless someone is willing to pay more than you've bid. Personally, I have software that snipes my final bid 10 seconds before the end of the auction... Set my maximum some days before hand, put it in 10 seconds before the end...
 
arad85 said:
That'll work - unless someone is willing to pay more than you've bid. Personally, I have software that snipes my final bid 10 seconds before the end of the auction... Set my maximum some days before hand, put it in 10 seconds before the end...
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If theyre willing to pay more than ive bid theyre welcome to it, another one will come along soon.

I always look for items ending at strange times as the likelyhood is there wont be many folk awake at the time of auction end.

Search for mis spelt items as well.
 
I use a sniping program, but only because its easier when you are bidding on lots of the same item.
Say I want a sigma 12-24. There are 3 on ebay all ending within a day.

I set a snipe for all of them, and put the absolute maximum I want to pay, which is lets say £300

The first ends, my snipe of £300 goes in, but someone else has already bid £301. I loose.
Without doing anything, the sniper automaticly bids on the next item, again my bid goes in, someone has bid £300.02. I loose. On the next one it bids again, its ending late at night, It puts my snipe in, I win the auction at £260. Say I won the second one, it would automaticly delete the third as it knows Ive already won another item.

The sniping program is no different than ebay's own sytem, apart from the fact it puts your max bid in a few seconds before the acution ends and bids up to that amount rather than ebay where you usually put your max bid in a few hours or minutes before.
 
WP-UK said:
Hi all,

I understand about the maximum bid and sniping now but here is a link to the bidding history (hope you can see it) http://offer.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=220734343962

All the bidding was private however it says the bid was at £550 on the 4th of Feb when on my ebay yesterday (6th of Feb) it says I was winning at £521.11 when that never shows up on the bidding history?

That is the main thing that confused me that I thought normally when your bid is bid against and is risen due to a high bid I thought it showed up on the current bid however mine stayed at £521.11

Hope this has made it a bit clearer why I am confused
Click to expand...

Were you watching the actual auction or looking at your my ebay page? I've often found that my ebay doesn't update when the auction price changes, even when I've increased the bid.
 
Haha quote from the above article
"Shill bidding is illegal and it is important for people to understand that there is not, nor has there ever been, room for illegal activity on our site."
yer right and i'm just off to fly to the moon on my pencil
 
scraggs said:
Haha quote from the above article
"Shill bidding is illegal and it is important for people to understand that there is not, nor has there ever been, room for illegal activity on our site."
yer right and i'm just off to fly to the moon on my pencil
Click to expand...

to be fair on them, they probably said that with their fingers crossed behind their back..

:lol:
 
So... to the OP... Did you put 3 maximum bids in over a 24hr period as I mentioned in my post (it would seem a very simple way of explaining why the bidding went as it did).
 
After reviewing it it would appear that that could be a likely option. Thanks for clearing this up for me. End result was that I won another auction at £90 cheaper but I just wondered if anyone knew what might have caused it and you did, so thanks :)
 
The way I used to bid on ebay was to put a low bid in to show my interest (as some people remove items if there are no bids) then I wait till about 30 seconds remaining then put my max bid in. If it's not enough then fair enough but I have won a few items this way. You don't need sniping software imo. It's a very common practice and isn't cheating really.
 
Actually I think I had a similar instance this week.
I put in a bid, which was the highest bid.
Until 2 seconds before the end.
At that point, the history shows that another bid was entered. BUT, this bid was below the £1 minimum increase (at ~£60, ebay showed that the minimum increase had to be £1)
 
I never bid my maximum on the auction and let it sit til the end.
20 seconds til the end of the auction I go through the bidding and put it in.
I find if you put your highest in (especially if you're trying to get one cheap) early on, you always end up getting bidded over. Whereas if you wait until the last second, you get a better bargain :)
 
I've never used sniping software. Doesn't offer me anything better than just putting in the max I want to pay with 3 seconds to go manually. I can see it being useful as above if you are bidding on many items all ending close together and/or you are out and not by a comp.
 
- Never bid with your maximum bid. This just increases the price unecessarily as most people become curios to find out at what point they can win the item
- Dont refresh the page. That is much slower than looking at the automated counter.
 
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