Large Format photography group - From "zero to hero!"

sirch said:
Thinking of getting a 90mm or there abouts for 4x5, what's good? There seem to be quite a lot of Super Angulon F8 and I guess F8 would be bright enough, any views on the image quality, is there anything better?
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It's a bit older now, but Kerry Thalman's Future Classics piece at the link pointed me to the Nikon 90/f8 SW and I've been happy with it. http://www.thalmann.com/largeformat/future.htm
 
Nowt wrong with the Angulon f8

I have one!

IQ us as good as any of my other lenses.

It’s relatively cheap as far as LF lenses go for 5x4 and it’ll focus down seriously close if you have access to decent bellows draw
 
I have both f/8 and f/5.6. The size difference makes the f/8 easier to fit through the throat. It's also lighter.

Don't forget that depth of field may make focusing much more difficult with a wide angle if the screen is dark, and I recall your having problems in the past with ground glass brightness.

I can always loan you a lens to see what you think.
 
sirch said:
Thinking of getting a 90mm or there abouts for 4x5, what's good? There seem to be quite a lot of Super Angulon F8 and I guess F8 would be bright enough, any views on the image quality, is there anything better?
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I know nothing about it really, but the Fujinon 90mm SWD is f/5.6,,, the Fujinons are lovely lenses, usually quite small (I have the 135mm NW f/5.6, really nice). Looks like the 90mm SWD sell for about £300. See the list at http://www.subclub.org/fujinon/byfl.htm
 
Thanks all. Does anyone know anything about import duties on lenses from Japan, all of the above seem to be available from there at reasonable prices.

I think I need to have a measure up becuase there isn't a lot of room at the sharp end of the MPP bellows so that might be a deciding factor.

Thanks for the kind offer @StephenM but I'll probably just buy one and you make a good point about f8 vs f5.6, I've had a fresnel GG for a few years now and it is nice and bright so that issue is less of a concern.
 
sirch said:
Thinking of getting a 90mm or there abouts for 4x5, what's good? There seem to be quite a lot of Super Angulon F8 and I guess F8 would be bright enough, any views on the image quality, is there anything better?
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Sorry if I'm covering old ground but a good starting point, IMHO, is to consult the comparison charts here - https://www.largeformatphotography.info/lenses/

This will give you specs such as size of image circle (hence the scope for movements without vignetting), weight, and filter size.

I have a Fujinon SW 90/8. I haven't used any other LF 90mm lenses so I can't really make any claims about it's image quality compared to other lenses. Given the benefits of a large negative, I think you'd be hard pushed to observe such differences without poster-size enlargements. If you can find a lens that offers the amount of coverage you need, and isn't too heavy to carry, then differences between individual examples of Lens A (for example any fungus or whether the shutter speeds are accurate) may be more significant than differences between the optical qualities of Lens A or Lens B.

With regard to maximum aperture, my experience is that f8 is good enough for composing in daylight, but if you are likely to be shooting in dimly-lit interiors (eg churches) then it can be pretty difficult to see properly at f8. I've just developed an image taken in a church at f8 and I recall that much guesswork was involved to know what was in focus. After that experience I began to look for an f5.6 lens but they seem to command a big price premium and are significantly heavier.
 
One old trick for focusing in dimly lit places is to use a torch. Not necessarily to illuminate the subject, but to place in the scene at the required focus distance. If the beam isn't massively wide, it should not be too difficult to judge when it's at the focus point.
 
StephenM said:
One old trick for focusing in dimly lit places is to use a torch. Not necessarily to illuminate the subject, but to place in the scene at the required focus distance. If the beam isn't massively wide, it should not be too difficult to judge when it's at the focus point.
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Yes I’ve done that several times using the t’ small les torch on my phone.
 
I perhaps should have mentioned that the reason I asked was because I have a Symmar 150 and a Sironar 210 and I am convinced that the Sironar renders significantly better than the Symmar. So perhaps it is just worth avoiding Symmars
 
That's interesting. My first lens was a 150mm Symmar and I was always happy with it. I wonder whether this is down to sample variation. The test results here make for interesting reading, particularly when more than one sample of a lens was tested.

On sample variation, Ctein in Post Exposure wrote that most enlarger lenses (and he was looking at the "big" names) were actually decentred, and he estimated that there were never more than about half a dozen good enlarger lenses available to buy at any one time, down to people keeping the good and selling on the bad, Gresham's Law applied to lenses...
 
StephenM said:
The test results here make for interesting reading, particularly when more than one sample of a lens was tested.
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A key to that table would be helpful, after a bit of reading I'm guessing that the Fstop/cnt/mdl/edge column is the test results at a given F-Stop and is resolution in lines/mm at the centre, middle? and edge, so a higher number is better?
 
From the best of my knowledge, there are no naff 90mm lenses. Essentially anything from the big 4 (Fuji, Schneider, Nikon, Rodenstock) will give you good, sharp results, it really just becomes a question of coatings, coverage and weight. That's not to say other brands will be poor, it's more to say that the big names may be largely taken for granted in terms of resulting images.

Brightness wise, F/8 is bright enough for most purposes and times of day, but I will say that as light starts to fall in the evenings, I start to struggle a tiny bit with my 90mm F/8. That being said, it is likely that it's to do with the fact that my Fresnel is likely not very well designed for wide focal lengths. Standard GG should be better I believe. My other 90mm, which is a F/4.5 is noticeably better, but I'm just being idealistic.

After the directly quantifiable (weight, size, brightness, coverage... and perhaps sharpness at a stretch), everything becomes subjective anyway. The beauty is that anything you buy is likely to hold it's value on the second hand market, so perhaps buy one or two (if possible) and do some tests over time. I can vouch for my Nikkor's, but the others in the big 4 will no doubt give comparable images.

The only other thing I can think of is that there is probably an argument for getting a lens in a newer shutter for higher likelihood of longevity... Maybe?

Edit: Apologies, I wrote my reply without refreshing the forum, so loads of replies appeared before mine when I hit post :D
 
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Short answer - yes :)

Edit to add - that's to sirch's post.

On shutters, I can only go by heresay. I would have expected a newer shutter to be a better buy, but I have read that some of the older shutters (Ilex in particular) are easier to repair if needed, being basically built from clock mechanisms. Pneumatic shutters are also said to be reliable. I must emphasise that I haven't looked into these claims, but they are probably worth researching.
 
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My Angulon arrived yesterday and even though it doesn't fit my current lens boards so using it will have to wait I was fired up to go out LF shooting for, I think, only the second time this year. The light was good this morning and I was planning on heading out later with a bag full of gear. Even though the light as gone off a bit now the big issue is that I can't decide where to go or what to shoot.

With other formats I tend to just put some gear in a bag and go for a walk, if I don't shoot anything then nothing lost, at least I got a good walk. However with LF it's a lot of effort and weight on the off-chance so I was wondering what others do? Other than "studio" shots do you go out with you LF gear on the off-chance or do you always have something in mind?
 
On a day out, the LF kit has to be a definite choice and even then there's a good chance it won't leave the car. Other camera bags will have a meter and possibly a film or two, but LF means checking that absolutely everything I need is packed.

My famous failure on this was my wholeplate camera with wholeplate film holders, only to find on location that it had the halfplate back fitted. :banghead:
 
sirch said:
My Angulon arrived yesterday and even though it doesn't fit my current lens boards so using it will have to wait I was fired up to go out LF shooting for, I think, only the second time this year. The light was good this morning and I was planning on heading out later with a bag full of gear. Even though the light as gone off a bit now the big issue is that I can't decide where to go or what to shoot.

With other formats I tend to just put some gear in a bag and go for a walk, if I don't shoot anything then nothing lost, at least I got a good walk. However with LF it's a lot of effort and weight on the off-chance so I was wondering what others do? Other than "studio" shots do you go out with you LF gear on the off-chance or do you always have something in mind?
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I've not shot any LF yet, but understand how you feel. I have times where the opportunity for photography is available, but I hit a mental block on where to go - it often then boiling down to re-visiting somewhere easy to get to but which I've perhaps not got as much enthusiasm about, or going further afield with all the time and effort involved and the chance that I'll not find anything I want to photograph.

I think the best thing to do if the intent is to definitely make some photographs (rather than just taking a camera on an outing on the off chance that something catches your eye), is to pick a location where you know there are likely to be subjects you will find interesting, even if you don't have a specific photograph in mind. You might still need to hunt the compositions out a bit when you arrive, but thery will likely be there to be found, and it can be better than just going somewhere aimlessly and taking pictures when your heart isn't in it.
 
sirch said:
My Angulon arrived yesterday and even though it doesn't fit my current lens boards so using it will have to wait I was fired up to go out LF shooting for, I think, only the second time this year. The light was good this morning and I was planning on heading out later with a bag full of gear. Even though the light as gone off a bit now the big issue is that I can't decide where to go or what to shoot.

With other formats I tend to just put some gear in a bag and go for a walk, if I don't shoot anything then nothing lost, at least I got a good walk. However with LF it's a lot of effort and weight on the off-chance so I was wondering what others do? Other than "studio" shots do you go out with you LF gear on the off-chance or do you always have something in mind?
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Get rid of all your other kit barring LF then your choice is simple…. Go out with it or shoot nowt!:p
 
sirch said:
With other formats I tend to just put some gear in a bag and go for a walk, if I don't shoot anything then nothing lost, at least I got a good walk. However with LF it's a lot of effort and weight on the off-chance so I was wondering what others do? Other than "studio" shots do you go out with you LF gear on the off-chance or do you always have something in mind?
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I go out on the off chance. I always take more lenses/backs etc with smaller formats, so the weight of camera and lens doesn't factor in. As I don't use film cameras with meters in any format, the meters don't add anything (fit in pockets). My loupe is permanently in a pocket even when I don't have a camera, so the only difference between Sony a7rii (sorry, digital), RB/RZ67, ETRS, C330f is that with LF I have a tripod - which I admit I should use with all the others anyway. Camera and lens weight is about the same. Except the black Intrepid, which makes for the lightest film outfit I'd use.
 
Interesting, thanks all. I have gone out with the LF gear in the boot, just in case, but I tend to find that I am in a particular mindset when shooting and switching formats or even shooting film and digital on the same trip is pretty rare. I also don't like leaving film in ancient DDS for long periods if I load them up and then don't use them.

On another related topic, in a separate conversation @Asha suggested a recessed lens board might be helpful so I've just had a happy hour or two prototyping one and it was an interesting experience, Because of the controls on the shutter and the size of the front opening of the MPP around 6mm is the max recess and even at that the aperture leaver is inside the recess, it is still usable but slightly inconvenient. The 6mm is useful though so worth pursing. Any deeper and the shutter release would be in the recess and would need a fair bit of room to allow for a cable release. Is this what is to be expected with recessed lens boards?
 
sirch said:
Interesting, thanks all. I have gone out with the LF gear in the boot, just in case, but I tend to find that I am in a particular mindset when shooting and switching formats or even shooting film and digital on the same trip is pretty rare. I also don't like leaving film in ancient DDS for long periods if I load them up and then don't use them.

On another related topic, in a separate conversation @Asha suggested a recessed lens board might be helpful so I've just had a happy hour or two prototyping one and it was an interesting experience, Because of the controls on the shutter and the size of the front opening of the MPP around 6mm is the max recess and even at that the aperture leaver is inside the recess, it is still usable but slightly inconvenient. The 6mm is useful though so worth pursing. Any deeper and the shutter release would be in the recess and would need a fair bit of room to allow for a cable release. Is this what is to be expected with recessed lens boards?
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Tbh i find that they’re a pain unless they have the little gadget thingy that allows the cable release to be attached outside of the recess.
Basically when the cable is triggered it makes the gadget thingy ( it’s the official technical term I’ll have you know :LOL:) pivot on its ´hingé thus pushing on the shutter release arm .

ÉDIT

Ok so it doesn’t pivot but I know what I mean :LOL:

Here’s an image off the internet which explains itself more clearly than I do

62060EC7-DA65-498F-ADA9-9A61E2D129A1.jpeg
 
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Thanks both, I'll stick to the 6mm, at least then I can read the f-stops :) and I get a reasonable range of movement
 
I have a lens that came with a right angled shutter release.
 
StephenM said:
I have a lens that came with a right angled shutter release.
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Tbh they could all to have been designed with easier access as even at the best of times, attaching a cable release is fiddly.

T’is why i have so many release cables ( much to the surprise of @Peter B :LOL:), so I can generally leave them attached to the shutters.
 
Somewhere, I have an old pneumatic shutter release doohickey which I'm sure could be tweaked to get at a recessed release lever/button.

If it is wanted, stick a wanted ad in the classies and PM me - I don't visit the classies very often so would probably miss the post/thread without a prompt!!! I wouldn't want anything for it other than a donation to either the RNLI or a cancer charity.
 
Made a few contact sheets earlier this week, such an enjoyable process with 8x10s. Was a bit rusty having not printed in almost two years but I got into the swing of things and managed to get quite a bit done in one session. The details and tones are so nice in person. Will definitely explore triptychs more as well now.

D51AB6E9-680A-499F-8D55-A1046AB08234.jpeg
 
Any one done any head and shoulders portraits on 54? What lens did you use? The 210 I used yesterday was a bit short ended up a bit loose with the girls, the one they shot of me actually filled the frame a bit better so maybe just need a 240... Never mind carry on.
 
steveo_mcg said:
Any one done any head and shoulders portraits on 54? What lens did you use? The 210 I used yesterday was a bit short ended up a bit loose with the girls, the one they shot of me actually filled the frame a bit better so maybe just need a 240... Never mind carry on.
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Yes, 300mm!

I too find 210 too shortfor head and shoulders shots on 5x4 …..it likes like having to practically be on top of the model with the kit.

I doubt that you’ll see any benefit from a 240 as the difference is minimal tbh

300mm works well and allows for a more oof bg as well as falling within the bellows draw of most field cameras even if only just when focusing relatively close!

APO 300mm are small and light and perfect for the job with a huge ic on 5x4 so creativity is well within its capabilities.

Price of them used to be cheap ish but who knows now…..
 
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steveo_mcg said:
Any one done any head and shoulders portraits on 54? What lens did you use? The 210 I used yesterday was a bit short ended up a bit loose with the girls, the one they shot of me actually filled the frame a bit better so maybe just need a 240... Never mind carry on.
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Found this one at a reasonable price though taxes to add. Others are asking stupid prices imo.

Yes it’s f/9 but tbh it never poses me a problem.

www.ebay.co.uk

[Exc+4] Rodenstock Apo Ronar 300mm f/9 f 9 MC Copal No,1 From JAPAN | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for [Exc+4] Rodenstock Apo Ronar 300mm f/9 f 9 MC Copal No,1 From JAPAN at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
www.ebay.co.uk

You may do better searching ffordes or somewhere as fleabay is for me a last resort now .
Some used stuff can be bought new for less than what sellers ask.
Be assured fleabay France is no better!
 
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Asha said:
Found this one at a reasonable price though taxes to add. Others are asking stupid prices imo.

Yes it’s f/9 but tbh it never poses me a problem.

www.ebay.co.uk

[Exc+4] Rodenstock Apo Ronar 300mm f/9 f 9 MC Copal No,1 From JAPAN | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for [Exc+4] Rodenstock Apo Ronar 300mm f/9 f 9 MC Copal No,1 From JAPAN at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
www.ebay.co.uk

You may do better searching ffordes or somewhere as fleabay is for me a last resort now .
Some used stuff can be bought new for less than what sellers ask.
Be assured fleabay France is no better!
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Cheers Asha, I'll see if I can find something serviceable! 2 days back and the gas kicks in...
 
steveo_mcg said:
Been flicking through some threads and the Chroma Camera site and I'm disappointed to see that @stevelmx5 still hasn't got a pano back for the chroma :D
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:crying::LOL:

Sorry Steveo my request that he makes rapid progress with the shutter mechanism that I need to use mybarrel lenses has already been put forward to steve so I’m afraid that you’re just gunna av to behave yourself and wait your turn :exit: :p:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

I
 
steveo_mcg said:
Been flicking through some threads and the Chroma Camera site and I'm disappointed to see that @stevelmx5 still hasn't got a pano back for the chroma :D
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Busy man and I believe he is still waiting on some supply issues to get sorted. Currently waiting for a 5x7 for the Chroma Carbon Adventurer, that will allow me to use my 6x17 and with the optional extension could make for some lovely 5x7 portraits too
 
Karl.t1965 said:
Busy man and I believe he is still waiting on some supply issues to get sorted. Currently waiting for a 5x7 for the Chroma Carbon Adventurer, that will allow me to use my 6x17 and with the optional extension could make for some lovely 5x7 portraits too
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Sorry Karl, I know it’s been a while.

I’m currently making a big change to the way I work, switching to monthly releases of cameras ready to go, rather than taking orders, as there just aren’t enough hours in the day! If all goes to plan, I’ll have some time each month to work on developing new kit like the 5x7 and 617 rear standards
 
Asha said:
:crying::LOL:

Sorry Steveo my request that he makes rapid progress with the shutter mechanism that I need to use mybarrel lenses has already been put forward to steve so I’m afraid that you’re just gunna av to behave yourself and wait your turn :exit: :p:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:

I
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Yep, it’s in the list of “new kit to be developed”

My time at the moment is being taken up with retail builds, getting the DIY build Cube cameras going, and starting mass production of the new 24mm F11 M39 lens
 
stevelmx5 said:
What, this one?

View attachment 358803View attachment 358804View attachment 358805

I’ve only got this one unit built at the moment for testing (when I can actually leave the workshop!)
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Now we are talking :D

Been looking for suitable lenses for the Six:9, I've got some stupid slow 35mm B&W slide film I've been meaning to put through the RB and make some panos but that would be suitably mad!
www.ebay.co.uk

10x B&W SLIDE 35mm film. Standard processing, Kodak 2468 lomo holga 120 | eBay

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 10x B&W SLIDE 35mm film. Standard processing, Kodak 2468 lomo holga 120 at the best online prices at eBay! Free delivery for many products.
www.ebay.co.uk
 
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