Landscape Workshops

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Carl Hall

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I’ve been looking at landscape photography workshops over the last few days and am wondering if they are worth the money. The one I’ve been looking at is by a very, very good photographer who charges £300 for a full 9 hour 1-2-1 workshop over a day. To start with I thought that it was a lot of money, but part of me thinks that I can probably learn quite a lot during the day and would be able to gain a lot of knowledge from someone who is leagues above where I am.

Just curious to other people’s opinions on these workshops? Has anyone been on one and have any comments about them?
 
£300 for a 9 hour day seems pretty fair, in terms of paying a professional for a days work and sharing of knowledge etc. My un-weighted cost as a consultant starts at about £350/day depending, and goes to £450 is there's equipment & facilities involved.
 
ancient_mariner said:
£300 for a 9 hour day seems pretty fair, in terms of paying a professional for a days work and sharing of knowledge etc. My un-weighted cost as a consultant starts at about £350/day depending, and goes to £450 is there's equipment & facilities involved.
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Yeah I think £300 is fair for a full days work, especially with the travelling costs and what not to him. I think the price is right for the amount of time, I just want find out if the content and input is worth it for me :) If I walk away thinking "wow, I learned a lot. Can't wait to put these new skills to the test" then it's worth the £300, but I don't want to walk away thinking I didn't learn that much etc. Hence asking if people have any experiences :)
 
Carl Hall said:
I think the price is right for the amount of time, I just want find out if the content and input is worth it for me :) If I walk away thinking "wow, I learned a lot. Can't wait to put these new skills to the test" then it's worth the £300, but I don't want to walk away thinking I didn't learn that much etc.
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This is key to how I organise my 1-2-1s too, I have no 'set' day's training (aside from for beginners) so I'd expect to have a good chat beforehand and look at the work of the potential attendee too, so I can see where they are at and what they are wanting to learn too and structure the day accordingly

I also always offer a review service for the next 6 months too so I can see what you're implementing and comment where it is/isn't working

The post follow ups are unique to me I believe, but getting the day structured to the individual should be the start of every training session from every trainer IMHO

Dave
 
DG Phototraining said:
This is key to how I organise my 1-2-1s too, I have no 'set' day's training (aside from for beginners) so I'd expect to have a good chat beforehand and look at the work of the potential attendee too, so I can see where they are at and what they are wanting to learn too and structure the day accordingly

I also always offer a review service for the next 6 months too so I can see what you're implementing and comment where it is/isn't working

The post follow ups are unique to me I believe, but getting the day structured to the individual should be the start of every training session from every trainer IMHO

Dave
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Ahh that sounds pretty good then. I guess they would be able to look at my photos and find out what I'm not so good at etc, and then base the workshop around that. I did look at group workshops which are quite a bit cheaper, but then I think you would miss out on a lot of information that's tailored specifically to you, and get a fraction of the tutors time. so they're probably not as good.

Thanks for the help!
 
I think it may be worth jotting down what your looking for in respect of your photography and also what you think may be missing and if you have a particular workshop in mind or tutor why not give them a call and ask their advice, I'm sure there'd be happy to oblige.
As for the money side, as you say you'll only know after you leave and put what you've learnt into practise if it was worth it. I've been on a couple of workshops and learnt loads but also been on one that was and wasn't enjoyable.
 
I would consider very carefully how you're going to retain that £350 pounds worth of knowledge after the day.
 
I have been on a couple of landscape workshops and they have been good value for money for me. One was with Simon Kitchen ( www.landscapephotographyuk.com ) who wrote the a guide to photographing North Wales (which is worth getting). Another and by far the best so far was with a chap called John Fanning (www.johnfanning.co.uk } he lives in the Weymouth area. He does not advertise but I contacted him after seeing an article in Canon EOS magazine about a workshop he gave for them. I spent a couple of days with him and came away feeling that I had learned a lot and really wanting to get out and do more. I am not sure if he is still doing workshops but his website is worth a look. I am also booked to go to Yosemite park with Aspect21 ( www.aspect21.co.uk) next year and I have high hopes for that. Workshops may seem expensive but they can cut years off your learning curve and for my money it is worth paying the extra for small groups or, preferably 1-2-1.
I have no association with any of the names mentioned and I am sure there are many very good courses out there but these are some the ones I have attended. As Kevin Allan mentioned in his post money spent on tuition can be better value than gear (but only if you practice what you learn).
 
paul100 said:
I think it may be worth jotting down what your looking for in respect of your photography and also what you think may be missing and if you have a particular workshop in mind or tutor why not give them a call and ask their advice, I'm sure there'd be happy to oblige.
As for the money side, as you say you'll only know after you leave and put what you've learnt into practise if it was worth it. I've been on a couple of workshops and learnt loads but also been on one that was and wasn't enjoyable.
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I think that's a good point, I need to have a think about what I think my photos are lacking and then decide if that's something that a workshop can help me with (I suspect post processing is my weakest link). I've had a look through my photos and I can't really figure it out, they just seem to lack that "wow" factor. I've got some new photos from the weekend to process this evening, so I might get a better idea afterwards. I'll probably post some on here later, so who knows, other TP members might even be able to tell me what they're missing haha.
 
dcash29 said:
I would consider very carefully how you're going to retain that £350 pounds worth of knowledge after the day.
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I think I'd have to write a lot of stuff down, but if I practice a lot soon afterwards hopefully I'd be able to remember most of it. It's a good point and it's worth thinking about though, i'd hate to spend the money and then forget it all a month later!
 
Fordsabroad said:
I have been on a couple of landscape workshops and they have been good value for money for me. One was with Simon Kitchen ( www.landscapephotographyuk.com ) who wrote the a guide to photographing North Wales (which is worth getting). Another and by far the best so far was with a chap called John Fanning (www.johnfanning.co.uk } he lives in the Weymouth area. He does not advertise but I contacted him after seeing an article in Canon EOS magazine about a workshop he gave for them. I spent a couple of days with him and came away feeling that I had learned a lot and really wanting to get out and do more. I am not sure if he is still doing workshops but his website is worth a look. I am also booked to go to Yosemite park with Aspect21 ( www.aspect21.co.uk) next year and I have high hopes for that. Workshops may seem expensive but they can cut years off your learning curve and for my money it is worth paying the extra for small groups or, preferably 1-2-1.
I have no association with any of the names mentioned and I am sure there are many very good courses out there but these are some the ones I have attended. As Kevin Allan mentioned in his post money spent on tuition can be better value than gear (but only if you practice what you learn).
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Thanks for the detailed reply Gordon. I bought that book a couple months ago with the aim of taking the van to Snowdonia for a few days, but I've not had time yet. The book really does look incredible though, so much detail and good information in there.

I'm actually only about 45 minutes from Weymouth so I'll have to have a look at John Fannings website and maybe send him an email. The workshop that I was looking at was Adam Burton's, who is around the Devon and Exmoor area which I love.
 
Carl.
I have the Photographing North Wales book by Simon Kitchen and I think it is excellent, It is my plan to spend a week or so up there, probably when there is snow on the mountains and visit some of the places in the book. As for the point that was made about retaining the information why don't you ask the workshop tutor if he can include a critique of a couple of samples of your work up to a couple of months after the event?
I would think that Adam Burton would be a good choice for a 1-2-1 he does some excellent work. I wonder if there is anyone on this forum who has attended one of his courses that could give some feedback.

On a slightly separate note. The problem with attending a group workshop is that very often the range of experience of attendees can be wide and a lot of time can be used up explaining basic techniques that are well understood by others. Maybe there is scope for forum members of a similar standard to get together and approach a workshop tutor for a deal - just a thought.
 
That is a really good idea. I am looking for something and probably would like to join others in the same wavelength as myself. I.e.. near beginner
 
Fordsabroad said:
I have the Photographing North Wales book by Simon Kitchen and I think it is excellent, It is my plan to spend a week or so up there, probably when there is snow on the mountains and visit some of the places in the book.
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I think I'm aiming for mid October for my trip. I'd love to go when there's snow about but I'll be sleeping in my van for a few days and even though it's fully insulated I think I might get a bit cold at night!

Fordsabroad said:
As for the point that was made about retaining the information why don't you ask the workshop tutor if he can include a critique of a couple of samples of your work up to a couple of months after the event?
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That's a really good idea, it won't take them too long to do that so I can't see why they'd have anything against it. Would definitely help to make sure that you're heading in the right direction afterwards.
 
Only you will know your finances but I think £300 seems a lot if you're only doing it for fun. I've gone on workshops before but at a third of the price, they did help win the technical side but I think composition/vision etc usually comes from yourself in time.

Looking at your Flickr you seem to shoot mostly during the day when the light is flat. Nothing wrong with midday shooting but you need to work out how to use the conditions, usually simple scenes work then especially if there's interesting skies, black and white too. Try shooting more sunrises, sunsets and golden hours. I think your portfolio lacks focus as there's too much variety in the styles you shoot, if you want to concentrate on landscape cut the non-landscape pictures from your portfolio and only post your best. Those Burnham Lighthouse pictures are really nice.

I think you could do worse than pick up a copy of the Outdoor Photographer of the Year book for a little inspiration and go on a few photo holidays by yourself. If you haven't already tried that you might be surprised how much you learn and improve because you're dedicating proper time to it.
 
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f*** that! Keep the 300 quid in your pocket whilst watching YouTube and researching on the net, then use said £300 on paying for fuel and possibly accommodation for a few nights in a great location. There are plenty of forums for you to post on for critique and seemingly plenty of people willing to give it.

As said above, all depends on your finances but I'm way too tight to even consider paying that! I don't think I could even if I wanted to either.
 
I echo Scirroco_09's post.

What is your aim with your photography? Once/if you know this it will help with your choice of workshop.

I attend two or three group workshops a year, often from the same 'pool' of tutors.

What have I learnt?

I need to practice more, MUCH more.

I don't have an eye for composition, but am very good technically.

I need to develop my own style, not copy others.

I enjoy the social interaction of a group session and get as many learning points from my fellow attendees as the tutor.

I'll never make a living from photography, but then I never wanted to.

My photography is for me, not others.

Set goals for the workshop by all means, but above all just enjoy it.
 
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Scirocco_09 said:
Only you will know your finances but I think £300 seems a lot if you're only doing it for fun. I've gone on workshops before but at a third of the price, they did help win the technical side but I think composition/vision etc usually comes from yourself in time.

Looking at your Flickr you seem to shoot mostly during the day when the light is flat. Nothing wrong with midday shooting but you need to work out how to use the conditions, usually simple scenes work then especially if there's interesting skies, black and white too. Try shooting more sunrises, sunsets and golden hours. I think your portfolio lacks focus as there's too much variety in the styles you shoot, if you want to concentrate on landscape cut the non-landscape pictures from your portfolio and only post your best. Those Burnham Lighthouse pictures are really nice.

I think you could do worse than pick up a copy of the Outdoor Photographer of the Year book for a little inspiration and go on a few photo holidays by yourself. If you haven't already tried that you might be surprised how much you learn and improve because you're dedicating proper time to it.
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Thank for the feedback :) My Flickr photostream is a bit of a mess in all honesty; most of my "serious" landscapes are taken at sunset/sunrise, but over the last two years or so I've been enjoying using film cameras and haven't taken as many landscapes, so most of the film photos on Flickr tend to be walk about film ones rather than serious landscapes. My landscapes are in this album https://www.flickr.com/photos/carlhallphotography/albums/72157670720910260 . I think that you're right that maybe my photos are too varied, I think that processing my landscapes is really where I need to improve, but I'm not sure how much (if any) processing would be covered in a workshop.

It's interesting that you say about the photo holidays; Last year I bought myself a VW T4 van so that I could go away on trips with my camera. I plan to go to Snowdonia at the start of October so should be able to concentrate a bit more on my landscapes there, and do lots of sunrise sunset shoots.

Thanks again :)
 
minnnt said:
f*** that! Keep the 300 quid in your pocket whilst watching YouTube and researching on the net, then use said £300 on paying for fuel and possibly accommodation for a few nights in a great location. There are plenty of forums for you to post on for critique and seemingly plenty of people willing to give it.

As said above, all depends on your finances but I'm way too tight to even consider paying that! I don't think I could even if I wanted to either.
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I'm just considering it at the moment, it was just an idea rather than a plan :) I wondered if the workshops were worth the money so was curious if anyone had any thoughts. You make a very good point about spending the money on visiting locations though. I can sleep in the van for free and could see a hell of a lot of locations for £300 worth of diesel!
 
JohnX said:
I echo Scirroco_09's post.

What is your aim with your photography? Once/if you know this it will help with your choice of workshop.

I attend two or three group workshops a year, often from the same 'pool' of tutors.

What have I learnt?

I need to practice more, MUCH more.

I don't have an eye for composition, but am very good technically.

I need to develop my own style, not copy others.

I enjoy the social interaction of a group session and get as many learning points from my fellow attendees as the tutor.

I'll never make a living from photography, but then I never wanted to.

My photography is for me, not others.

Set goals for the workshop by all means, but above all just enjoy it.
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In all honesty I'm not sure. One day I'd like to get a photo in a landscape photography magazine, but I know I've got a loooong way to go before I produce anything of that level! I just want to enjoy my hobby and get better, by practicing and learning as much as I can. That's why I thought of the workshop, as I would basically have nine hours to suck as much information and knowledge out of a professionals brain as I could, but as I've said before my processing is my weak link, and I'm not sure I'd learn much about processing on a workshop.
 
Carl Hall said:
my processing is my weak link, and I'm not sure I'd learn much about processing on a workshop.
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Ok processing is important, in fact unavoidable if shooting in raw but get out in good light and the time/effort you actually need to put into it is minimal...most of the time if I need to spend more than 15 minutes editing a photo I delete it and go back in better light...obviously trickier if you're on a one-off visit though

Simon
 
Carl Hall said:
Thank for the feedback :) My Flickr photostream is a bit of a mess in all honesty; most of my "serious" landscapes are taken at sunset/sunrise, but over the last two years or so I've been enjoying using film cameras and haven't taken as many landscapes, so most of the film photos on Flickr tend to be walk about film ones rather than serious landscapes. My landscapes are in this album https://www.flickr.com/photos/carlhallphotography/albums/72157670720910260 . I think that you're right that maybe my photos are too varied, I think that processing my landscapes is really where I need to improve, but I'm not sure how much (if any) processing would be covered in a workshop.

It's interesting that you say about the photo holidays; Last year I bought myself a VW T4 van so that I could go away on trips with my camera. I plan to go to Snowdonia at the start of October so should be able to concentrate a bit more on my landscapes there, and do lots of sunrise sunset shoots.

Thanks again :)
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No problem :) . The workshops I've been on only covered taking the pictures, but I do know some others go into processing - Adam Burton doesn't seem to say, but does offer to tailor his training around you. Still seems pricey though! I'd personally like to see what Lee Acaster does to his pictures as they're all so crisp but natural. He was featured in an Amateur Photographer article covering landscape processing together with three other landscape photographers but I'm sure he must do more than he lets on:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.u...ow-they-edited-some-of-their-best-shots-73953

On the AP website actually there's quite a few decent landscape articles which might be helpful to you:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/technique/landscape_photography-technique

If you are struggling with processing I wouldn't rule out shooting Jpeg (plus Raw too) as these look far better straight out of the camera, it either gives you a benchmark to copy with your raw file or you might not need to edit at all. I also think you might find pictures easier to process if you make more use of light as that does most of the work for you. Wide, complex scenes are hard to edit if you don't have the right conditions to bring the best out of them. I find it hard to process as well to be honest, my best usually feature misty lightshows and I can find it hard to edit without that exciting light. I think you recognise what scenes work for you in time and avoid those which don't.

I wouldn't worry about getting photos into magazines, it does feel nice for a while but it's more important that you shoot for yourself and enjoy what you're doing. Then the magazines can come calling and hopefully pay for the privilege!
 
simonkit said:
Ok processing is important, in fact unavoidable if shooting in raw but get out in good light and the time/effort you actually need to put into it is minimal...most of the time if I need to spend more than 15 minutes editing a photo I delete it and go back in better light...obviously trickier if you're on a one-off visit though

Simon
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I've just looked through my photos, and one fact stands out for me. My photos are much, much better when the sun isn't in the frame. I'd not really noticed before, but when I try and include the sun at sunrise/sunset, it's far too contrasty and difficult to process without looking stupid. These two photos for example are two of my favourites, and they only took a few minutes each to process. They were taken with the sun just out of the frame, so you get all the colours in the sky but with a softer, less contrasty look. I'd never noticed this before, but I'll definitely keep it in mind next time I'm out


Old Harry Rocks Sunset by Carl Hall, on Flickr


Burnham on Sea by Carl Hall, on Flickr
 
Scirocco_09 said:
No problem :) . The workshops I've been on only covered taking the pictures, but I do know some others go into processing - Adam Burton doesn't seem to say, but does offer to tailor his training around you. Still seems pricey though! I'd personally like to see what Lee Acaster does to his pictures as they're all so crisp but natural. He was featured in an Amateur Photographer article covering landscape processing together with three other landscape photographers but I'm sure he must do more than he lets on:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.u...ow-they-edited-some-of-their-best-shots-73953

On the AP website actually there's quite a few decent landscape articles which might be helpful to you:

http://www.amateurphotographer.co.uk/technique/landscape_photography-technique

If you are struggling with processing I wouldn't rule out shooting Jpeg (plus Raw too) as these look far better straight out of the camera, it either gives you a benchmark to copy with your raw file or you might not need to edit at all. I also think you might find pictures easier to process if you make more use of light as that does most of the work for you. Wide, complex scenes are hard to edit if you don't have the right conditions to bring the best out of them. I find it hard to process as well to be honest, my best usually feature misty lightshows and I can find it hard to edit without that exciting light. I think you recognise what scenes work for you in time and avoid those which don't.

I wouldn't worry about getting photos into magazines, it does feel nice for a while but it's more important that you shoot for yourself and enjoy what you're doing. Then the magazines can come calling and hopefully pay for the privilege!
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Oh man, that first link is gold to me. Thanks for sharing it, I'll read through it fully later on this evening :)

I've been looking through my photos and found that the ones that I always struggle to process are the really contrasty photos with the sun in the frame. The ones I like the best (see post above) are all softly lit from the side and have lovely colours, with no bright sun anywhere to be seen. I think this has been really useful for me, as next time I'm out I'll make a conscious effort to try and find similar scenes which I know won't be a total PITA to edit later. Maybe this way I'll develop my own style too!
 
Something else to consider is a short residential course like those from the Field Studies Council. They're not cheap as I suspect the FSC uses the individual courses to subsidise those for schools but a few days away somewhere like Blencathra (Lake District) or Malham Tarn (Yorkshire Dales) with a decent tutor and a few like-minded fellow students can be very enjoyable.
 
simonkit said:
Thanks for buying the book guys, glad you like it :) Glad you found the workshop useful too Gordon !

Simon
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I enjoyed the day spent with you very much Simon, It was informative and you were an excellent tutor. It would have been better for me that weekend if I had been able to get up there earlier as planned and spend an extra day in the area, unfortunately family illness prevented this so It was very tiring, but well worth doing. I believe that 1-2-1 tuition gives the most benefit but the group ones you do would be a great introduction at an affordable cost.
 
DG Phototraining said:
On a 1-2-1 especially, if they aren't doing this then I'd not bother with them

Dave
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I always ask for a few photo's from a client before their workshop so I can see where they are and I also ask them to advise me what they wish to work on. Some just want to know the area, work on composition. Others want to work on focussing and depth of field, others on flowing water and waterfalls. I pick locations that work best for each client depending on what they wish to do.

There is nothing like 121 tuition. I've spent 3 days up in Glencoe with a client (didn't charge £300/day) and the improvements I saw in his focussing (using live view and zooming in to check the foreground and distance) was incredible and he got out of it what he wanted. A reliable focussing technique. He wanted reflections, so I took him to a few prime spots. He wanted waterfalls, I took him to the usual suspect and a few lesser known ones. I covered off LR and Nik software with him. There is nothing like 121 tuition. Videos might be well and good, but out in the field with someone experienced is far better giving you hands on advice on what to work on and improve on. You wouldn't learn to drive from videos off youtube now would you?
 
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