Knackered shutter...

shiato storm

shiato storm

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...in less than 15K shots on a 1dII?...I dug around and heard of this occuring quite early on in a few other cameras, just checking here to confirm with what you lot reckon. white line appearing on images shot at higher than 1/1250s as shown in these few examples - top of frame (or left side in portrait)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/shiato5torm/HRR20070915-099.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/shiato5torm/HRR20070915-100.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v333/shiato5torm/HRR20070915-150.jpg

called canon to explain, quite politely, that its not acceptable to have a shutter fail so soon, in fact less than 10% of its expected lifespan...their response was somewhat less than sympathetic I have to admit. despite being beyond a year of owning it I have heard of replacements given for free due to how early on its happened...the telephone call I just had didn't instill a great deal of confidence in me though.
 
Sorry can't help, but sympathies

Ouch. Poor you.
Doesnt look too good does it. buuh.
 
The shutters have gone on both my MKii's in the past and they didn't look like that. Send those images here : www.advancedcameraservices.co.uk and see what they think.

Their repair costs are very good if it does needing fixing btw.
 
So what did Canon say?
 
My 1Ds did exactly the same thing anything above 1/1250's, canon told me it was a timing problem between the shutter and electronics, they had a play and got it sorted for me for I think approx £60 but that was in 2005, if i recall a new shutter is approx £180 fitted (thats for 1Dsmk2) price is from earlier this year.
 
Sale of Goods act would apply, but, due to the length of time you have owned it, it would be down to you to prove it was inherrently faulty. Easy really, as their own literature etc states that it should last much longer.

I'd write to where ever you bought it from, tell them about the fault etc, and state. that you would like them to repair it, or if they cannot repair it, to replace it FOC.

You are bound to accept a repair, due to the length of time that you've owned the camera, but if you get it fixed free, I'm sure you'd be happy with that.
 
1dmkII and 1dsmkII use same shutter - well one is smaller due to 1.3x but essentially identical I believe. cost isn't too earth shatteringly high but a b****r nonetheless...

what did canon say? well I mentioned that its less than 10% of the stated lifespan and I basically got told that the 200K (as advertised) can't be used as a guide for lifespan of components...nice!
um, then why the hell is it in your advertising gumpf then?! essentially they seemed to take the stance that regardless of what they advertise if its out of warranty and breaks; pay up. maybe I could get them to reduce it as a goodwill gesture (its had other probs in its life, staying at fixation 4 times for varying probs...)...what a faff
 
Just stating the obvious - 1/250 is the max flash sync speed of your camera - the fastest speed at whuch the whole sensor is exposed at once. Faster than that, the two curtains move together exposing the sensor through the slit between them - the faster the shutter speed, the narrower the slit. Try varying the shutter speed to see if it has any effect on the width or position of the white line, in which case it might be the shutter knackered.

You could be lucky though and it might be a simple fix.
 
mattyh said:
Sale of Goods act would apply, but, due to the length of time you have owned it, it would be down to you to prove it was inherrently faulty. Easy really, as their own literature etc states that it should last much longer.

I'd write to where ever you bought it from, tell them about the fault etc, and state. that you would like them to repair it, or if they cannot repair it, to replace it FOC.

You are bound to accept a repair, due to the length of time that you've owned the camera, but if you get it fixed free, I'm sure you'd be happy with that.
Click to expand...
useful info, cheers.
 
CT said:
Just stating the obvious - 1/250 is the max flash sync speed of your camera - the fastest speed at whuch the whole sensor is exposed at once. Faster than that, the two curtains move together exposing the sensor through the slit between them - the faster the shutter speed, the narrower the slit. Try varying the shutter speed to see if it has any effect on the width or position of the white line, in which case it might be the shutter knackered.

You could be lucky though and it might be a simple fix.
Click to expand...
yeah, I thought of that, but then the flash wasn't firing for these and it stays in the same place...whether that occurs with a flash I'm not sure but that didn't figure into it. The size of line does seem to change with varying shutter speeds...hence shutter dying :(

p.s. I got it from Canon's outlet on ebay a while ago, even so - and as mentioned - after quickly checking the sale of goods act (trading standards summarised text: http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/bglitem.cgi?file=badv073-1011.txt ) the life of the part has fallen way short of the expected lifespan and is not what might be termed 'fair wear and tear' ...so I'll give them a buzz - would it worth mentioning the SoG act or wait for their response before pushing that at them?
 
hmm...just looked at some more recent shots and the line doesn't appear to be there, and yet there's no doubting it, its clearly evident in another series of shots... arg!
 
shiato storm said:
p.s. I got it from Canon's outlet on ebay a while ago, even so - and as mentioned - after quickly checking the sale of goods act (trading standards summarised text: http://www.tradingstandards.gov.uk/cgi-bin/bglitem.cgi?file=badv073-1011.txt ) the life of the part has fallen way short of the expected lifespan and is not what might be termed 'fair wear and tear' ...so I'll give them a buzz - would it worth mentioning the SoG act or wait for their response before pushing that at them?
Click to expand...

I'd guage their first response before sending in the big guns ;)
 
Have you tried watching the shutter fire?

I had a very similar band on mine just before one of the shutter blinds actually detached itself on one side and started flapping about. If you use a shutter speed slow enough to see it open and then close, you might get a clue to what's going on.

Mine didn't see 100,000 clicks either. :(
 
yes, tried to look inside but didn't see anything, nothing in the way, what I think might be happening is a blade sticking to another blade and during high shutter speeds it shows up as a white (over exposed) section on the final image
 
I don't want to sound pessimistic, but I suspect the "legal" route might not get you very far.

The advertised shutter life (200,000 shots in the case of the 1D Mk II) is only an average value - the Mean Time To Failure (MTTF). Obviously there will be some sort of statistical distribution around that figure, and the nature of statistical distributions is that they tend to have tails. Some cameras will go on for much more than 200,000 shots. Some will fail much more quickly.

The key question here is not about the average life expectancy, but the shape of the distribution about that average. I wouldn't fancy trying to argue with a Canon engineer about what would be a reasonable distribution and what wouldn't. But given Canon's response so far, that's the way it looks like it's going.

You've been horribly unlucky, but replacement shutters aren't terribly expensive. If I were you I'd just get it fixed and move on.
 
yeah but if I can spare the expense I'd rather try that first y'know...
 
Update:

As expected their response was 'contact canon uk for a repair'...I guess I'll have to try and steer them towards the trading standards bumpf and then see what they say.
 
If it were me, i would send it in, pay to get it repaired, and then try and claim it back (or at least come to an agreement - say 50/50)

That way i dont miss out on any pictures. I would kick myself if i missed a shot because i was too busy arguing over who was going to pay for the repair.
 
i've got a back up but yeah...much just have to though I am loath to appeasement when I should be due more.
 
I'd be pushing them on the Sale of Goods Act, as the product shouldnt be failing this early in it's life, regardless of the fault.
 
You are unlikely to get anything through sale of goods. The camera is out of its warranty period, which is specifically a time length limited, not shutter actuations. For that warranty period, the camera, or more specifically, the shutter in this case, pressumably operated correctly. AS Witch pointed out, expected lifespan is merely an average, and its lower tail is where they set the warranty periods, based on average usage. So for instance, 20 years ago, you might have got a years warranty on your car, today you will get 3 or more, with mileage limitation, because cars are inherently more reliable but, lets say your car which has only done 5000 miles, but is 4 years old breaks down, tough, like a camera, its a mechanical object, which by their very nature are subject to failures, and its just very unlucky when the failure is one of the earlier ones rather than one of those on the other side of the 'lifespan' spectrum.

I would follow the advice of get it repaired and pay for it, then write a carefully worded letter to canon, pointing out that its not unknown for their shutters to fail early [if I am understanding previous posts correctly] and explaining that you feel a very expensive camera has been something of a disappointment.

Good luck whatever line you take. ;)
 
Sorry to disagree LL, but you're wrong (IMO ;)) The sale of goods act remains in full force for 6 years after the purchase of the product. 15,000 shots on a shutter that "should" last around 200,000 (as advertised by canon) is not acceptable.

If it had failed at 100k shots, fair enough I'd put that down to bad luck, at 15,000 I'd be livid! Especially on a 2k camera (assuming I've read the right spec ;))

If you want to proceed down the SOGA route, I'd say your best bet is to commission an independant report, which should state that the shutter has failed due to poor build quality (or something like that)

As long as it says words to that effect, then the retailer that you purchased it from is liable to provide a repair at their expense.

A court would see it the same, due to the average shutter life advertised on their own website.

Assuming you've owned the camera 18 months, to get to that level of usage you would need to be taking about 350 shots per day, every day... If I've pushed the right buttons on the calculator :lol:
 
ask them to fix it as a goodwill gesture , otherwise you will tell the whole world what a load of crap they are and they can shove it up their ass*s and you will buy a nikon instead ! ( is that too strong ? )
 
....

Assuming you've owned the camera 18 months, to get to that level of usage you would need to be taking about 350 shots per day, every day....
Click to expand...

15,000 shots, let's say 500 days (not 18 months but keeps the maths simple) is 30 a day innit? and that's just the average
if you halve the number of days, it's still only 100 a day

I think the "charm offensive" is more likely to get a result,
with something stronger in reserve

imho
 
shiato storm said:
p.s. I got it from Canon's outlet on ebay a while ago
Click to expand...

Just re-read through and noticed this. Not sure how this will affect you, but I have a feeling items from the Canon Outlet are sold as seen as they are mostly refurbished items...
 
Weggy said:
Just re-read through and noticed this. Not sure how this will affect you, but I have a feeling items from the Canon Outlet are sold as seen as they are mostly refurbished items...
Click to expand...

DSLR sold by Canon Outlet come with a 1 year manufacturers warranty.
 
And it's out of that 1 year warranty?
 
yep...18months or so, but its been back and forth to fixation in its life a few times...one might imply its not up to the [professional] standards intended? brilliant when it works, less than useful when it doesn't...
 
Weggy said:
Just re-read through and noticed this. Not sure how this will affect you, but I have a feeling items from the Canon Outlet are sold as seen as they are mostly refurbished items...
Click to expand...
they also state they are 100% working items...
 
quick update - Canon got back to me and its getting sorted, free! cause it's life was so short. now, I quoted my CPS no. but it still took best part of 2 months from initial contact to get it sorted...
 
^^^wot he sed^^^
bet you're glad to have it back
hope it lasts longer this time!
 
Yeah, its a shame coz its a great idea.
Theres always some people who want to spoil it.
 
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