Kiva - support a 'tog?

Toothie said:
A lone so so could buy a bike would have helped no end. it would have cost about £100 for a cheep bike, which she could have paid back a few pounds a month out of her small income. Just to stress a system like this could be used in the uk.
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A system like this IS used in the UK and has been for over a century, though payments are made weekly. The two big players, operating nationally, are Provident Financial and Cattles, though there are smaller companies operating in most parts of the country.

http://www.providentfinancial.com/plc/About_us/Our_products/Home_credit.aspx
http://www.cattles.co.uk/index.php?welcome_financial_services__
 
HIMUPNORTH said:
Wow! We are a cynical lot aren't we?!

I get so many "scam" emails that I would have passed over such a request assuming it was on the same level. It obviously isn't and I thank you woadwage for bring it to our attention.
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No problem. I found out about it a little over a year ago in much the same way. It was mentioned on the bookcrossing forums and recommended by a number of people who had lent through the organisation and were seeing it working, ie some of their loans had paid back and others were being repaid on schedule. It seemed to be worth a try and here I am a year or so on recommending it to others.

Ironically, I highlighted the Azerbaijani chap because I thought that anyone here who is interested would prefer to help a fellow tog than, say, a carpenter or market trader.

Yes, we are too cynical sometimes.
 
sportysnaps said:
this is not about poverty.. - i have no problem giving for starving people...he is not
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Well this isn't charity of course so it it different to giving your hard eared away. That's not to say there isn't a risk attached but if the amount is small enough that you are not risking suffering to your family if it does disappear, it's fairly harmless, surely.

The problem I have with the "charity begins at home" line, is that if I feel compassion or empathy for people suffering whilst I'm not, I can't switch off my care according to the geography of the suffering. Either I want to help someone out of a harsh or unjust situation, or I don't. Where they live makes little odds to me.

What I'd really like is one happily ever after for each and every soul. I do get told that this is not likely but I want it anyway. :D
 
dazzajl said:
Well this isn't charity of course so it it different to giving your hard eared away. That's not to say there isn't a risk attached but if the amount is small enough that you are not risking suffering to your family if it does disappear, it's fairly harmless, surely.

The problem I have with the "charity begins at home" line, is that if I feel compassion or empathy for people suffering whilst I'm not, I can't switch off my care according to the geography of the suffering. Either I want to help someone out of a harsh or unjust situation, or I don't. Where they live makes little odds to me.

What I'd really like is one happily ever after for each and every soul. I do get told that this is not likely but I want it anyway. :D
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That i would agree with dazzajl. i do think alot of people fail to see the suffering in this country though.
 
sportysnaps said:
it's about time we started looking after people in the uk and not fund the rest of the world everytime.
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Pirate Neilsouth said:
Their OWN Government should help their own people , time and time again we bail out other countries when their government prefers to spend money on millitary hardware and the like..
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You two clearly have fairly free access to the internet, therefore you have no excuse other than sheer arrogance or laziness for upholding such ill-founded, bigoted and jingoistic opinions.

robmiller said:
To play devil's advocate: for the same reason that you'd presumably put more effort into helping your own mother than a stranger?
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That's just nonsense. :)

*sigh*
 
Jayst84 said:
That's just nonsense. :)

*sigh*
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You're denying a biological imperative that favours relatives over strangers, with varying degrees of favour in-between?

I'm not saying it's morally right, or that we shouldn't fight it, but to deny such a thing is complete folly.
 
robmiller said:
You're denying a biological imperative that favours relatives over strangers, with varying degrees of favour in-between?

I'm not saying it's morally right, or that we shouldn't fight it, but to deny such a thing is complete folly.
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Nope. Not at all. You're post was in response to JimmyLemon's point about how someone's nationality should have no impact on your decision to help them. Your linking of paternity and nationality is what I was referencing.
 
robmiller said:
You're denying a biological imperative that favours relatives over strangers, with varying degrees of favour in-between?
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How do you account for the vast sums given to charity each year? The whole point of charities as they currently exist is precisely to channel funds to those in need that we don't know. People do, of course, give to charities dealing with situations that they have personal knowledge of or connection with (eg disabled children, cancer relief and research) but their donations don't go to people they know personally but to strangers with the same condition or in the same situation.

On the other hand, if we think Auntie Gertie needs a new winter coat we can give her £100 direct to buy one.
 
Do you think Kiva will loan me the money for a D3........ ;)
 
Jayst84 said:
You two clearly have fairly free access to the internet, therefore you have no excuse other than sheer arrogance or laziness for upholding such ill-founded, bigoted and jingoistic opinions.
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You can call me all the names under the sun , yet MY preference thats MY preference not yours is towards charities at home. If you want to spend your millions towards Africa or some other foreign country while ignoring YOUR OWN COUNTRY and i'll spend my money towards cancer research in the uk , then so be it. :thumbs:
 
I'm not aware that I've called you any names, but ok..

I also never suggested that I ignore my own country. In fact, the whole reasoning behind my posting has been that nowhere and no-one should be ignored. You seem to be of the opinion that people who by chance live relatively close to you, are somehow more important than those who don't. That would probably constitute racism by most definitions.

The idea that the UK "time and again bails out other countries" is just laughable. Even after you put aside the fact half of them are in such a mess, a least in part, because of the actions of UK government.

I can't really be bothered to go into any more depth right now, and I'm sure you wouldn't be interested even if I did. So, I'll leave it at that for now. :)

Jamie.

PS. Oh, and for the record: I don't give to any charities (anywhere in the world) and most likely never will. I do however intend on attempting to do something a bit more useful than perpetuating the problem or merely postponing the inevitable.
 
Wah!:( This is a difficult subject and everyone is entitled to their opinion. :)
My personal opinion is (and it is very personal) I would rather put my money into cancer research to find a cure. I am not blind to world poverty but if I could hep one person avoid what I went through I'd be very happy.:):)
 
Pirate Neilsouth said:
You can call me all the names under the sun , yet MY preference thats MY preference not yours is towards charities at home. If you want to spend your millions towards Africa or some other foreign country while ignoring YOUR OWN COUNTRY and i'll spend my money towards cancer research in the uk , then so be it. :thumbs:
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Jayst84 said:
I'm not aware that I've called you any names, but ok..

I also never suggested that I ignore my own country. In fact, the whole reasoning behind my posting has been that nowhere and no-one should be ignored. You seem to be of the opinion that people who by chance live relatively close to you, are somehow more important than those who don't. That would probably constitute racism by most definitions.

The idea that the UK "time and again bails out other countries" is just laughable. Even after you put aside the fact half of them are in such a mess, a least in part, because of the actions of UK government.

I can't really be bothered to go into any more depth right now, and I'm sure you wouldn't be interested even if I did. So, I'll leave it at that for now. :)

Jamie.

PS. Oh, and for the record: I don't give to any charities (anywhere in the world) and most likely never will. I do however intend on attempting to do something a bit more useful than perpetuating the problem or merely postponing the inevitable.
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I think this thread maybe getting a little out of hand. lets try not to get personal its unnecessary.

There will always be differing oppions on charity and the like. and we will not always agree. and as such as individuals we should do what we think is right.

personally although i prefer to help people in the uk it is not because of race but because this is the country i live in and would like too see it be the best it can be.
 
Jayst84 said:
That would probably constitute racism by most definitions.
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An incorrect definition, yes.
If they were to happily support an Englishman living in Nigeria as a poor cameraman, yet the native Nigerian living next door, then THAT would be racism. Preferring to support those in the country he lives in, that is not racism, thats being preferential, or favouritism.
Racism is a word thats bandied about WAY too much, and thats what ends up causing alot of race problems in itself.

As for everyones differing opinions, everyone is entitled to their own, and we are all entitled to disagree, but on here we do it politely.

For the record, I rarely give to charities either. One for the reason that many are wasteful (at top level / management etc) with money, another is that I'm stingy.
I do give to some local charities however, where I have seen them do real good with those close to me.
 
Racism is the idea that one race, or group of people is 'better' / more deserving, etc than another. So, I'd say its pretty close. Even if its not racism, which strictly speaking I suppose it isn't, it still smacks of daft nationalism, which isn't much better.

I don't mean to be impolite, I'm just trying to get a point across, so apologise if I've offended anyone.

That'll be the last from me on this thread as I realise of course that no-one's going to be changing their actions due to a discussion on an internet forum. :thumbs:
 
dazzajl said:
Tosh... and the fact that we can discuss it from behind the keyboards of our expensive computers in our warm and dry houses proves it.

What it is about time for is an acceptance that issues of education, poverty and health can be a global responsibility and that there is plenty of resource to go around if we stop putting up walls and making excuses.
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:thumbs:

My thoughts exactly.
 
Two more of my loans paid back in full today - a seamstress in Paraguay and a market trader in the Ivory Coast. The loans were due for full repayment today; the repaid funds were there in my paypal account by noon and were lent out again immediately - to a consortium of five small traders in Sudan and a market trader in Ukraine who sells clothes.

Not that I expect everyone to believe this of course ......
 
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