Kids Shoot

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Xarra

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OK, tomorrow I'm shooting 12 children. Eep. And a range of ages.

I know my 3-light set-up for adults, that's fine. But can I use the same set-up for kids?

My normal 3-lights is softbox at the 45/45 degree angle, reflector for fill & 2 lights on the background, or 1 light on the background and a rim light using an un-modified or black umbrella.

Do I just do the same as normal and lower it all a bit? :) I'm a bit worried 'bout using the reflector as fill given they'll be moving around a lot...
 
Kids are actually much easier to light than adults, because of their perfect skin, which means that although their movement will force you to have the lights further away, the harder lighting that this produces actually help.

In other words, don't worry about it.
 
I'm going to disagree with Garry, simply because it's kids. They move about a lot and harder light is much more sensitive to subject position. Shadows get cast in the wrong direction.

If anything I would make it as soft as you reasonably can and get the key light quite close to the camera axis so that if they turn one way or the other you're still covered as best you can.

It's a point of view, but I think it's more important to get the shot, to capture the expression, rather than risk more adventurous lighting. I don't think many mums will be complimenting you on your fantastic lighting if you've missed the moment ;)

I would avoid shooting more than two nipperz at a time. Getting two to look the right way, and getting them both within the depth of field is hard enough.
 
I shoot kids as my main subjects with a 4 light setup (although the 4th is only directed at the floor to lift it to white). For key I use a big 1mtr sqr softbox positioned just at my right shoulder which gives a nice light and lovely big catchlights. I use props like a little Ikea bright green chair, oversized duck and the like to keep the 2-4yr olds in the right place, although with the prop not necessarily in the shot. Getting the 3-5yr olds to jump in the air is always a good way of both getting a fun shot and getting them over the terror of bing in front of lights and camera :thumbs:

Edit:
I have to agree with Richard for the younger ones in groups of more than 2 or 3, they refuse to take direction (unless you wave a balloon on a stick just above your head with one hand LOL)
 
HoppyUK said:
I'm going to disagree with Garry, simply because it's kids. They move about a lot and harder light is much more sensitive to subject position. Shadows get cast in the wrong direction.

If anything I would make it as soft as you reasonably can and get the key light quite close to the camera axis so that if they turn one way or the other you're still covered as best you can.

It's a point of view, but I think it's more important to get the shot, to capture the expression, rather than risk more adventurous lighting. I don't think many mums will be complimenting you on your fantastic lighting if you've missed the moment ;)

I would avoid shooting more than two nipperz at a time. Getting two to look the right way, and getting them both within the depth of field is hard enough.
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We'll agree to disagree then:)
The fact of the matter is that soft lighting generally only favours people with poor complexions, most other subjects (and especially kids) look much better with harder lighting.

And the fact that you can't nail kids to the floor means that the lights have to be further away, which has the benefit not only of producing harder and therefore better lighting but also means that if they move a bit closer to the light (or a bit further away) then the effect of the inverse square law means that the shot isn't necessarily ruined by either over or under exposure.
I agree though that it's a very good idea to have the key light very close to the camera axis (usually high) and that the expression/activity is more important than the quality of the lighting when it comes to kids.
 
Xarra said:
Annoyingly they want some group shots... o.O The ages are:

4 mnths, 3 yrs, 5 yrs, 2 x 6yrs, 2 x 9yrs, 2 x 11yrs, 2 x 14yrs and 15 yrs,

Excuse me while I go crawl in a hole and stress...
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If you're religious, pray. Hard.

Just some comments really. Lighting is the least of your worries :eek: Make sure you've got plenty of depth of field, and fast recycling. Split them up into groups. Sit the little ones on the laps of the older ones. Pray again. Be 100% ready at all times - with the little ones you might only get seconds to grab a shot before it all goes tits up and bawling, but one good shot is all you need. Shoot like crazy when you get the chance. Shoot like crazy anyway, expressions will be changing by the second. Pray some more.

If you're handy with post processing, you can swap heads and faces around between frames. Seriously I would think about this, even pay somebody to do it for you if necessary. If you shoot with this in mind it can make life easier, on a plain white background for example.

Garry Edwards said:
We'll agree to disagree then:)
The fact of the matter is that soft lighting generally only favours people with poor complexions, most other subjects (and especially kids) look much better with harder lighting.

And the fact that you can't nail kids to the floor means that the lights have to be further away, which has the benefit not only of producing harder and therefore better lighting but also means that if they move a bit closer to the light (or a bit further away) then the effect of the inverse square law means that the shot isn't necessarily ruined by either over or under exposure.
I agree though that it's a very good idea to have the key light very close to the camera axis (usually high) and that the expression/activity is more important than the quality of the lighting when it comes to kids.
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All valid points Garry :thumbs: You're a brave man.
 
It's now only 6 kids. Phew.

I have to ask, I keep seeing lights refered to by the camera's axis? The test shots I did last night had the softbox over my shoulder as suggested - but for adult portrait's it's the 45/45 set up... Where IS the camera's axis? :)
 
Xarra said:
It's now only 6 kids. Phew.

I have to ask, I keep seeing lights refered to by the camera's axis? The test shots I did last night had the softbox over my shoulder as suggested - but for adult portrait's it's the 45/45 set up... Where IS the camera's axis? :)
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Camera axis (or more correctly lens axis) means dead in line with the camera lens, i.e. either above or below the lens, not to one side.
 
V8burble said:
(although the 4th is only directed at the floor to lift it to white)
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Could you elaborate on this a bit more please andrew, as i have just purchased another Smart flash 200 for this very reason, when i took my last lot of shots the main problem was the floor and getting it white, so my idea is to point a light at it very low down on a very low setting which will hopefully do the job, am i on the right track ? i've just got a lastolite Hilite for the background, so i'm hoping that i won't have so many problems with this, as i'm in a small area.


Just on a side note, if anyone is thinking of getting the Hilite, don't bother buying the white train with it, as i'm fairly sure any piece of pure white vinyl cut to suit will do just as good a job, when i opened th train up the other day i was pretty peed off that lastolite could charge £100 for what essentially is just a normal piece of 8x7 white vinyl that had a curve on the end, just to add this comment doesn't in anyway reflect on Digital Depot who sold it to me, as i asked Stuart to order it in for me :)
 
TG. said:
Could you elaborate on this a bit more please andrew, as i have just purchased another Smart flash 200 for this very reason, when i took my last lot of shots the main problem was the floor and getting it white, so my idea is to point a light at it very low down on a very low setting which will hopefully do the job, am i on the right track ? i've just got a lastolite Hilite for the background, so i'm hoping that i won't have so many problems with this, as i'm in a small area.


Just on a side note, if anyone is thinking of getting the Hilite, don't bother buying the white train with it, as i'm fairly sure any piece of pure white vinyl cut to suit will do just as good a job, when i opened th train up the other day i was pretty peed off that lastolite could charge £100 for what essentially is just a normal piece of 8x7 white vinyl that had a curve on the end, just to add this comment doesn't in anyway reflect on Digital Depot who sold it to me, as i asked Stuart to order it in for me :)
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Sure, with the nursery/pre-school stuff that is most of my studio work I run the same setup every time as it... well works, so why change it. I'm afraid I'm using a 3mtr wide vinyl roll backdrop but the principle will be the same I guess. I have two bare Bowens 500Rs set onto the background angled slightly down and at about 45-60 degrees to the background and set to about 3/4 of a stop above the subject lighting. I mask both these lights with tri-fold screens to stop wrap onto the subject. I have another 500R over my right shoulder with a big softbox (literally beside my head whilst I'm either sitting or laid down on the floor as my subjects are generally youngones) and to my left at the side of the vinyl that covers the floor, just my side of the tri-fold screen I have my 4th light pointing up at a silver brolly that directs the light down very steaply to the floor and so does not light the subject directly, does not create an annoying second catchlight and bounces a little bit of fill off the vinyl also. Does the trick quite nicely requiring only a few seconds with the dodge tool to the very bottom left corner of the frame. The tri-fold screens not only mask the lights to aid the shot, but they mask them from the littleones that otherwise want to pull them over or fiddle with them and also create like an area that you can attempt to keep them within knowing that your light levels are relatively constant over that area. It's useful if you have limited or no help from the staff too.

Hope that helps... if I get time later I might try and draw it :)
 
V8burble said:
Sure, with the nursery/pre-school stuff that is most of my studio work I run the same setup every time as it... well works, so why change it. I'm afraid I'm using a 3mtr wide vinyl roll backdrop but the principle will be the same I guess. I have two bare Bowens 500Rs set onto the background angled slightly down and at about 45-60 degrees to the background and set to about 3/4 of a stop above the subject lighting. I mask both these lights with tri-fold screens to stop wrap onto the subject. I have another 500R over my right shoulder with a big softbox (literally beside my head whilst I'm either sitting or laid down on the floor as my subjects are generally youngones) and to my left at the side of the vinyl that covers the floor, just my side of the tri-fold screen I have my 4th light pointing up at a silver brolly that directs the light down very steaply to the floor and so does not light the subject directly, does not create an annoying second catchlight and bounces a little bit of fill off the vinyl also. Does the trick quite nicely requiring only a few seconds with the dodge tool to the very bottom left corner of the frame. The tri-fold screens not only mask the lights to aid the shot, but they mask them from the littleones that otherwise want to pull them over or fiddle with them and also create like an area that you can attempt to keep them within knowing that your light levels are relatively constant over that area. It's useful if you have limited or no help from the staff too.

Hope that helps... if I get time later I might try and draw it :)
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Many thanks it certainly does, and if you do get time to draw the diagram that will also be very much appreciated, or if you have a photo of the setup even better :thumbs:
 
Ok, something like this but imagine the brolly pointing the light at the floor about 1/4 distance towards the subject from the brolly.

b1687ea6.jpg
 
Many thanks for posting that diagram, my idea was to just point the light at the floor, but yours looks like a better option and probably not so harsh, i will give both a try out :)
 
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