Kids and ipads

Col said:
I do not often comment but the experience obtained as above is invaluable in life and dare I say that an iPad will never give you this. Falling out of a tree gives you an immediate understanding of gravity and its consequences (I still have the scars).

Each to their own way but i think that an ounce of practice is worth a ton of theory

Long may the debate continue!
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But do you see col, that we're not talking about ipad replacing this kind of learning. Instead supplementing it?

How can supplementing learning with different methods ever be a bad thing?
 
joescrivens said:
But do you see col, that we're not talking about ipad replacing this kind of learning. Instead supplementing it?

How can supplementing learning with different methods ever be a bad thing?
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Unfortunately they often seem to supplant practical experience as they never get wet with an iPad.

Agreed that any learning is good so long as it is diverse.
 
joescrivens said:
But do you see col, that we're not talking about ipad replacing this kind of learning. Instead supplementing it?

How can supplementing learning with different methods ever be a bad thing?
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In actual fact Joe the original topic by the OP at no point discussed supplemented learning, it was about given an ipad to a toddler to keep them happy.
Which is why I asked you originally if you condoned spending hundreds of pounds on a device to keep a child happy and you ended up giving me some conveluted answer.
As usual you took it of track slightly to suit yourself :D
 
stupar said:
In actual fact Joe the original topic by the OP at no point discussed supplemented learning, it was about given an ipad to a toddler to keep them happy.
Which is why I asked you originally if you condoned spending hundreds of pounds on a device to keep a child happy and you ended up giving me some conveluted answer.
As usual you took it of track slightly to suit yourself :D
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I think that's unfair. The natural flow of the thread went towards a general discussion on the merits of the ipad, many people commented on this before I began debating it.

It's been a good debate too in my opinion
 
joescrivens said:
I think that's unfair. The natural flow of the thread went towards a general discussion on the merits of the ipad, many people commented on this before I began debating it.

It's been a good debate too in my opinion
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It has been a good debate but your still not answering my question.
:D
 
I already did.

I wrote this

If your kids are using the ipad to watch cbeebies and they want their own one because they dont like the show their sister is watching then No I don't condone that kind of behaviour
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joescrivens said:
You don't have kids do you
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Nope - but i was one once , and the example above is drawn from my childhood, plus many of my freinds have children and i've seen lots of well adjusted kids who are not bought expensive gadgets just because they don't want to share with a sibbling

Are you seriously suggesting that its not a good idea to set kids boundaries and teach them to share etc responsibly ?

For the record I don't disagree that Ipads (and tech generally) can have all sorts of educational uses - but that argues for the kids to have controlled access to a family ipad - not to be bought one each because they'll have a tantrum if you expect them to share
 
joescrivens said:
No I'm not suggesting that. What gave you that impression?
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The fact that when i said that originally you answered
" you don't have kids , do you " - the implication that only a non parent would suggest something so silly as to expect kids to share, or for parents to make them
 
big soft moose said:
The fact that when i said that originally you answered
" you don't have kids , do you " - the implication that only a non parent would suggest something so silly as to expect kids to share, or for parents to make them
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:suspect:

You're reading far too much into that comment Pete, don't be so paranoid.
 
the innocent act doesnt become you joseph
 
joescrivens said:
I hear older people saying this all the time, but around me at least it's packed at the park we go to. Last night in the bath we were counting Daisy's bruises on her legs - 14 - she's very proud of them, and each one was obtained from climbing, jumping and generally being an active child.

This still goes on for the majority of people
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And that is because the older people have a greater insight of the changes that have taken place over the last generation of children. I doubt very much Joe that your two kids are a typical example of how quite a lot of teenagers have become nowadays. Their entertainment of a weekend consists of a bus into town, looking at the latest phones or tablets and littering the streets with empty McDonalds cartons, anything other than a sunny day and most of them will not even venture outside :lol: You see the girls with a fag hanging out of their gob texting their mates whilst the baby or toddler dressed in designer gear is just sat in a buggy and getting no interaction with anything or anybody. I am not saying children don't play in parks or that parents don't interact with their children, but a lot of teenagers cannot think for themselves because of the lifestyle they have led as youngsters. A tablet screen or tv does not give them the ability to make a decision that will give them a real life experience if they choose the wrong one. Whilst they can be used for educational purposes in all honesty I believe an ipad for a 12month old is going a bit too far. There are far more important things for a toddler to learn in the first few years of their life.
 
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u8myufo said:
And that is because the older people have a greater insight of the changes that have taken place over the last generation of children.
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I'm not sure I agree.

I think it;s because the older people get the more cantakerous and negative they become about those younger than them

the people you describe who are careless parents have always been there and always will. Ipads have not created them, human nature has.
 
Obviously kids are going to play with things you didn't as a child, it's called development, kids these days aren't going to sit around and play ball on a stick or whatever, they'll be using modern technology. It's a natural advancement, and to go against it is effectively stunting your child in an area that is possibly more vital than actual human interaction nowadays (although that is bad, it's pretty much true)
 
joescrivens said:
I'm not sure I agree.

I think it;s because the older people get the more cantakerous and negative they become about those younger than them

the people you describe who are careless parents have always been there and always will. Ipads have not created them, human nature has.
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Well I am far from cantankerous and negative Joe when it comes to the youth, yes careless parents have always been around nobody is disputing that. What I am trying to point out is that in general there is a significant higher amount of teens out there on the streets, just kicking their heels because they have lost that ability to get out there and have fun.There will always be good points and bad points with a subject such as this. Good points if it is restricted and used in the correct way and bad points if it takes over the kids life and they rely on it too much. I am not sure how long ago you were teaching Joe but if they were available then and an internet connection available, would you have encouraged the kids to use these devices in your lessons?
 
Digitalize said:
Obviously kids are going to play with things you didn't as a child, it's called development, kids these days aren't going to sit around and play ball on a stick or whatever, they'll be using modern technology. It's a natural advancement, and to go against it is effectively stunting your child in an area that is possibly more vital than actual human interaction nowadays (although that is bad, it's pretty much true)
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in my experience that isnt the case (Although I don't have kids i work with them a lot) - kids today are just as happy to play out with balls, sticks, build shelters, climb trees etc if given the chance - theres nothing wrong with them learning to use computers, ipads etc, but not to the exclusion of all else
 
u8myufo said:
I am not sure how long ago you were teaching Joe but if they were available then and an internet connection available, would you have encouraged the kids to use these devices in your lessons?
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Absolutely I would have. I build educational apps for schools to se in the classroom.

Schools are all starting to run pilot program's with iPads or other tablets.
 
joescrivens said:
Are you talking from experience? i.e you have given an ipad to a child and watched the interaction and then formed the opinion that it was lazy - or are you just speculating?

I'll give you an example of how our children use ipads and tell me if you think this is lazy:

I've built several applications specific to my childrens needs and run them on the ipad with them. We then sit with our children whilst they interact, we talk with them, we ask them questions, they answer. We play the games together, we choose games built around collaboration so the two of them can learn to work as a team.

You seem to indicate that a parent and a child cannot learn together with an ipad in your post. This leads me to believe you have never actually done it. Parent and child learning together is EXACTLY what we do with our children when they use the ipads.

So tell me - do you still think I am a lazy parent?
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Yes! :lol:
 
tbh the way Joe describes doesnt seem lazy - but it also doesnt sound typical - i'd suspect that its far more usual to give the child the device and essential say "look pretty lights now shut up while the adults talk" , in the same way that some lazy parents park the children in front of the Tv for hours at a time.
 
big soft moose said:
tbh the way Joe describes doesnt seem lazy - but it also doesnt sound typical - i'd suspect that its far more usual to give the child the device and essential say "look pretty lights now shut up while the adults talk" , in the same way that some lazy parents park the children in front of the Tv for hours at a time.
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Only three reviews from one of Joe`s line up of apps but two of them would suggest what you are saying Pete.
 
Rich. You should really think about what you are saying sometimes.

That app is for autistic children and "sitting for ages" doing anything for an autistic child is an accomplishment. It helps them learn how to focus and learn about hand to eye coordination.

I am in contact with both those reviewers and the top one is describing her son getting stressed because he has Asperger's syndrome. Keeping him calm at times with repetitive activities helps him get through his day.
 
joescrivens said:
Rich. You should really think about what you are saying sometimes.

That app is for autistic children and "sitting for ages" doing anything for an autistic child is an accomplishment. It helps them learn how to focus and learn about hand to eye coordination.

I am in contact with both those reviewers and the top one is describing her son getting stressed because he has Asperger's syndrome. Keeping him calm at times with repetitive activities helps him get through his day.
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My apologies Joe. In that case then I would say there needs to be more emphasis on how they are advertised online. Neither here or here would suggest to me or anybody that they are nothing more than a learning app for any child. I admit in line 6 of the description there is a mention, but would it not be more beneficial if it was categorised better? :shrug:
 
u8myufo said:
My apologies Joe. In that case then I would say there needs to be more emphasis on how they are advertised online. Neither here or here would suggest to me or anybody that they are nothing more than a learning app for any child. I admit in line 6 of the description there is a mention, but would it not be more beneficial if it was categorised better? :shrug:
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You have to stick to the google and apple categories. There is no category for learning difficulties or special needs and I really wish there were because a lot of my apps are specifically aimed at those audiences.

It can still be used by any child of course and it helps hand to eye coordination for anyone. But it just so happens the specific reviews you were pointing out were from parents of autistic children.

Yes I'm sure there are parents like Pete describes. But those are the kinds of parents who would act that way with any device - tv, computer etc so I think you'll always get them.
 
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Personally I like the idea of Joe's kids playing Blackjack :lol:
 
big soft moose said:
tbh the way Joe describes doesnt seem lazy - but it also doesnt sound typical - i'd suspect that its far more usual to give the child the device and essential say "look pretty lights now shut up while the adults talk" , in the same way that some lazy parents park the children in front of the Tv for hours at a time.
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So you could give a child a doll or toy cars to play with to distract them whilst you talk or get things done, but not an ipad?
 
dolls and toy cars don't generally cost £300 plus a shot - if you did buy a child a £300 doll then i'd think that was excessive too.

The point being that joe was justifying that level of expenditure by saying that it is educational and helps them develop their intellect , I was illustrating that this is only true if you interact with them (in the way Joe says he does) - if you just use it as a "look pretty lights" distraction then the educational value is limited and the expense inappropriate.
 
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I think everyone would agree that buying anything purely to babysit a child is a bad idea regardless of the cost.

However if you are buying something to enhance a child's "individual play" then an iPad isn't a bad decision. People assume a digital device doesn't help a child's imagination but those people mustn't have seen the kinds of software you can buy.

Toontastic is an app you should look at. It's a cartoon creation app and is one of the most inaginative apps you can buy. Why is using figures and a physical scene better than creating a cartoon with all the characters, music, scenes, voice recording etc?

By the way we also buy a lot of Schleich toys. And I can't wait till Finn is old enough for te dragons and battle elephants. A mix of everything is healthy.
 
I pretty much agree about the educational benefit if used sensibly - however its hard to move past the cost - you could buy a hell of a lot of toys/books/games etc for the cost of an ipad (let alone two or three ipads) , plus an ipad isnt exactly a robust bit of kit when it is thrown, dropped, stepped on, has milk poured over it etc (as tends to happen to 'toys' outside of parental supervision.

(and thats not to mention the potential for accessing the net and seeing inappropriate content either accidentally or deliberately , or for that matter the various cyber bullying and other such issues that arise when kids have unfettered and unsupervised access to the net)
 
Now I can tell you aren't a parent. You'd be surprised how much toys cost. I was in the Lego shop today and the Death Star Lego set was £270!!! It was awesome though.

When you see the free educational apps you can get and second hand prices of an iPad hitting £150 you can make it go a lot further than the same money spent on pieces of plastic in the shape of toys.

Of course you can also buy second hand toys for a lot cheaper also. But in te end why does the price even matter? If you can afford something then who cares the actual cost?
 
joescrivens said:
Now I can tell you aren't a parent. You'd be surprised how much toys cost. I was in the Lego shop today and the Death Star Lego set was £270!!! It was awesome though.
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I'm an uncle - so ive got a fair idea - but I still wouldnt do 300 notes plus on a single toy

joescrivens said:
second hand prices of an iPad hitting £150
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where ? , at that price i'll have one for my own use

joescrivens said:
. But in the end why does the price even matter? If you can afford something then who cares the actual cost?
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Unless you are fabulously wealthy the actual cost determines whether you can afford it :shrug: and for those of us who arent fabulously wealthy we have to think carefully about where we put our money - and a £300 plus quid 'toy' which will last until junior drops it once doesnt look like good value compared with 300 quids worth of toys/books/games which are robust because they are actually made with kids in mind.

Of course i can see the value in educational apps on a family ipad , which is used under supervision and is thus looked after - but not on spunking christ knows how much cash in providing individual ipads for each child.
 
big soft moose said:
I'm an uncle - so ive got a fair idea - but I still wouldnt do 300 notes plus on a single toy



where ? , at that price i'll have one for my own use



Unless you are fabulously wealthy the actual cost determines whether you can afford it :shrug: and for those of us who arent fabulously wealthy we have to think carefully about where we put our money - and a £300 plus quid 'toy' which will last until junior drops it once doesnt look like good value compared with 300 quids worth of toys/books/games which are robust because they are actually made with kids in mind.

Of course i can see the value in educational apps on a family ipad , which is used under supervision and is thus looked after - but not on spunking christ knows how much cash in providing individual ipads for each child.
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Get yourself on eBay for iPad 1 16gb for £150

As for the dropping it thing? My iPad 1 was dropped, thrown, spat on, spilled on etc. never broke once. You'll be amazed at how durable they are. All of mine have been abused by our kids and never broken.

Just cos you can't afford one for a toy doesn't mean other people therefore shouldn't buy their kids one if they can afford it.
 
nilagin said:
Because something's are overpriced, ipads for one.
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That's only a matter of opinion. Just because you can't afford one or you think it's overpriced doesn't mean others agree and should not buy it based on your thoughts.
 
Yet you feel someone should buy one based on yours.:thinking:
I can afford quite a few, but I wouldn't waste my money on just one for myself, let alone a child.
 
No I feel someone should buy one based on their own decision. People here are condemning someone for choosing to buy one for their child. Nobody here is condemning people who choose not to.
 
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