Just... Why a Mac?

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LemmingLover said:
lol

Well at least everyone is being well behaved this time. No one has been called a "latte drinking fanboy" yet :)
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I thought it was something I'd said. Where is the paranoid emoticon?
 
canybo said:
Sorry not true. A MacBook pro is about as good as build quality gets for a laptop. Thinkpads were in some respects even better, but since Lenovo took over, that sadly isn't the case anymore.

At work we use high end HP and Dell laptops, they don't even come close.
Jiggly bits, plastic and metal stuff that doesn't fit well, etc. Even the much hyped Envy isn't as good. It comes close, but the design is also very very similar to a MBP.
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really? we've had just as many wear and tear issues with macbooks in my experience. then on top of that we had a few with the old graphics card / screen issues.
 
@bluemax, i have a 1000 pound budget for a new laptop, PC or Mac.

@Cowasaki, thanks for clearing that up :)
 
Defiance said:
I have both an iMac and a new laptop with Windows 7 loaded.

The laptop has crashed more in 3 weeks than the iMac in 9 months.
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I'd take it back then as it's probably be defective. For Windows 7 (or vista) to crash that much you either have t put it down to SERIOUS user error (like deleting system files) or instability due to hardwae issues. For reference we have a W7 PC here and it hasn't crashed once in the month we've had it. I have a Vista machine running since the beta (around 2.5-3 years) and that has only crashed 2-3 times in that entire period...;)

Marac said:
Did someone just say "You can't go wrong with a Dell"?

I need to sleep a bit longer.
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I used to think that but spend an equivilent amount on a Dell (£800+) and the quality is actually very good, you even get a proper Windows disk unlike Sony who just provide a recovery partition. Their cheaper end can be terrible though (just like other cheap computers).
 
neil_g said:
if you decided to go PC i can wholely recommend the dell lattitude E series. magnesium chassis = robust.
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+1

It's not as sexy looking IMO but a solid piece of kit and a good performer.
 
The reality is that Apple machines MOSTLY cost a little bit more than an exact equivalent Windows machine.

There have been instances where Apple machines actually cost LESS. Early Mac Pros were a good example. It was actually impossible to buy a dual Xeon motherboard and two Xeons for the same price as a Mac Pro which included HD's, GPU, PSU, DVD, CASE, OS, RAM etc....

If you compare an Apple laptop with a similar spec laptop from a tier one supplier then that is fine but you do need to compare like for like! The unibody macbooks/pro are really rather well built and yes there are returns for any product. Just give both a try and decide yourself. I was a die hard Windows user. I have two machines running and updated the main machine about every six months with some new component moving the old one to machine 2 then onto one of the kids machines etc etc. I seemed to be spending most of my time upgrading and messing with the computer rather than just using it. The Macs I bought were the first machines I have bought in 15 years that I didn't build from scratch although I will always buy the lowest spec memory, HD etc and upgrade them (unless it is cheaper to get the better one with it). I have Windows 7 on my multiboot PC and it is a vast improvement over Vista but my preferred OS is MacOS now and over the life of a decent laptop 3-4 years it is very little extra per day. I would rather pay that extra than use Windows.

My Macbook pro cost about £2000 and was the last generation model prior to unibodies coming in. I have not had any problems with it and it is fast enough for multitasking with CS3/4 and running other software. It has 4Gb RAM (upgradable to 6Gb), 2.6Ghz core 2 duo, a decent keyboard, wireless, touchpad, a 200Gb 7200rpm HD (which I am upgrading shortly to 500Gb or possibly 1Tb), it has a 17" 1920x1200 display which is simply stunning and a decent battery. I know that I could have bought a Windows machine but all the 17" Windows machines were bulky and thick (mine laptop is 1" thick throughout), it is light, it looks good and is reliable. Over 4 years it works out at £1.50 per day which is fine with me!
 
Crazy Dino said:
So your telling me im not just paying for the apple badge on the front....
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The Apple badge is actually worth real money to some 'creative professionals'. I've a mate who's a designer of sorts and used to work on PC's in his office. He claims that many potential clients didn't take him seriously when they saw he wasn't on a Mac and he had to change to Mac to get more business... sad but true! He's never regretted it mind....
 
Ste Manns said:
Another reason I am "upping" macs - whenever I use my mac I always enjoy the experience, as they say themselves, everything just works. I remember unboxing it, plugging it in and within seconds I was connected to the internet. When I press the on button it springs into life straight away and 20 seconds later I am doing what I intended to do with it. If I buy a new printer, I plug it in and it works. No loading software first. I dare say theres a piece of hardware out there that needs some drivers before it will work, but I haven't found it yet. It even knew how to read my 50D RAW files before I'd loaded the Canon software. In twenty five plus years of PC use (yeah, I remember DOS!) I have never known that before.
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Yet Vista (and now W7) have been doing all that for 3 years...:shrug:

(except the raw opening, which needs a small download)

The problem is so many people that slate the PC slate it because their new mac is better than their old OS (normally XP), which is over 7 years old. Obviously a new machine with a new operating system is going to be better than something released in 2001.:suspect:

neil_g said:
good comparison..

wall-e chugged on through hell and e-v-a (damn txt filter) shutdown and was unusable for a undetermind period of time.. :D
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See I was thinking of it in terms of Wall-e, bit ugly, occasional glitch but dependable everybody loves him. *** - stylish and cold yet gets the assigned job done...but no nore...:lol:
 
Nutty667 said:
The build quality of mac's is terrible. No-where near as good as decent PC manufactuers.
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:lol: - I was a Mac reseller for years, and maintained, upgraded etc loads of machines. When you open up the average pc you need to be *very* careful because of sharp edges etc, no such problems on Apple kit. In all the kit I sold I had one duff keyboard, I wish I could say the same about pc stuff.

The difference comes down to personal preference, I stopped trying to persuade wintel lovers years ago. If windoze was so good no-one would ever buy a mac because you can get the same applications for either platform. Take a look at Apple's sales of computers, that tells you everything you need to know.

I do have a pc but I only use it to check the websites I develop work ok with IE and the pc versions of major browsers.
 
sitemaster said:
:lol: - I was a Mac reseller for years, and maintained, upgraded etc loads of machines. When you open up the average pc you need to be *very* careful because of sharp edges etc, no such problems on Apple kit. In all the kit I sold I had one duff keyboard, I wish I could say the same about pc stuff.
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depends on the case to be honest. cheap cases can have sharp edges. but i cant remember the last time ive lost blood at the hands of a case?

The difference comes down to personal preference, I stopped trying to persuade wintel lovers years ago. If windoze was so good no-one would ever buy a mac because you can get the same applications for either platform. Take a look at Apple's sales of computers, that tells you everything you need to know.
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thats not strictly true, some people buy a mac because of personal preference. and no you cant get all apps for PC for Mac, why do you think we have to run RDC sessions..

which reminds me.. what i do hate though is the very dictating opinion of some mac users.. (insert rolling eyes smiley here)
 
Slightly different slant: Why are Macs more expensive? Well you pay for hardware that is controlled by the manufacturer and tested with the OS so you know that if you get a problem it must be the third party software. If you buy a PC, how many flavours of motherboard/processor/memory etc.etc. are there out there. If things go wrong everyone blames the other guy.
 
DonnaM said:
If you buy a PC, how many flavours of motherboard/processor/memory etc.etc. are there out there. If things go wrong everyone blames the other guy.
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true. although some hardware vendors are extremely slow at developing new drivers.. but as yet i havent had a single windows 7 driver issue.

although snow leopard isnt without its driver issues, we had no end of trouble getting our pro canon printers working as canon were not supplied with an advance copy to develop on.. we havent long had an official driver in fact.
 
sitemaster said:
:lol: - I was a Mac reseller for years, and maintained, upgraded etc loads of machines. When you open up the average pc you need to be *very* careful because of sharp edges etc, no such problems on Apple kit. In all the kit I sold I had one duff keyboard, I wish I could say the same about pc stuff.
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As Neil said, cheap cases maybe. I have a Lian Li case and no sharp edges in sight. When it arrived it also felt like the box was empty it is so light...

sitemaster said:
The difference comes down to personal preference, I stopped trying to persuade wintel lovers years ago. If windoze was so good no-one would ever buy a mac because you can get the same applications for either platform. Take a look at Apple's sales of computers, that tells you everything you need to know.

I do have a pc but I only use it to check the websites I develop work ok with IE and the pc versions of major browsers.
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Why is it so many Mac advocates have to use the old tired M$, Windoze etc... Gets boring after a while.

As for being "so good" then if MS are so much worse than Apple why have MS got 90% of the market? Using your logic that means they are around 10x better than Macs...;)
 
Amp34 said:
As Neil said, cheap cases maybe. I have a Lian Li case and no sharp edges in sight. When it arrived it also felt like the box was empty it is so light...
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indeed. ive got a pc-q07 and a pc-c32b and no sharp edges in sight. suburb quality.

As for being "so good" then if MS are so much worse than Apple why have MS got 90% of the market? Using your logic that means they are around 10x better than Macs...;)
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:lol:
 
DonnaM said:
Slightly different slant: Why are Macs more expensive? Well you pay for hardware that is controlled by the manufacturer and tested with the OS so you know that if you get a problem it must be the third party software. If you buy a PC, how many flavours of motherboard/processor/memory etc.etc. are there out there. If things go wrong everyone blames the other guy.
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Apple are just another computer builder, like dell and Sony, who I expect to control and test the components they put in their computers. Funnily enough the problems with windows machines are 99% down to third party drivers (discounting user error), most of the rest of the errors are due to malfunctioning hardware, which can happen to any computer manufacturer.


EDIT: OP as for other windows laptops to have a look at, try the Sony SR series. My sister got a Sony CW a few weeks ago and the build quality is very good and I have to say I was drooling over the SR laptop on display. Otherwise I would recommend the Dell XPS M1330 but they don't do them any more, just the Studio version which looks ugly, is about twice the size and doesn't look particularly well built.
 
sitemaster said:
If windoze was so good no-one would ever buy a mac because you can get the same applications for either platform. Take a look at Apple's sales of computers, that tells you everything you need to know.
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I think this debate has run it's course but I really can't let this one pass. MS have over 90% of the market and Apple 5% at best. So in a way, yes, that does "tell you all you need to know".

EDIT: I see someone beat me to that :bonk:
 
Surprised how well behaved this thread has been so far :D

As for why a Mac, for me personally it does what I need it to do without me having to fix it/mess around with it. I know how to deal with PC issues, I simply don't want to anymore.

For home use my iMac has been faultless, no weird errors, no blue screens etc... which I really can't say for the PC that I've just gotten rid of. I can well imagine in a work environment neither are better or worse reliability wise, because you have to factor users into the equation (they either dont know what they are doing, or simply don't 'care' about the work machine!).

The best answer that comes up each time a variant of this thread appears is, try both OSX and W7 on a similar spec machine and see how you get on :)

Dave.
 
LemmingLover said:
I think this debate has run it's course but I really can't let this one pass. MS have over 90% of the market and Apple 5% at best. So in a way, yes, that does "tell you all you need to know".
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Your stats are a little out of date it is about 15% Apple, 80+% MS now.
 
neil_g said:
which reminds me.. what i do hate though is the very dictating opinion of some mac users.. (insert rolling eyes smiley here)
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Riiiiight....don't get that from PC users at all, no never!

My favourite one from the PC is that if you EVER have a problem with a PC it is obviously because you are a brainless moron that is incapable of setting a PC up correctly.
 
Foggy said:
Riiiiight....don't get that from PC users at all, no never!

My favourite one from the PC is that if you EVER have a problem with a PC it is obviously because you are a brainless moron that is incapable of setting a PC up correctly.
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i never said that.. theres always fanboys on both sides of the fence. just the tone of some mac users grates against me (especially when stating stupid facts or non-arguments) lol
 
I can only speak from personal experience. I used PCs for many years and being the geek that I am I built several PCs from scratch. I was constantly upgrading, tweaking, overclocking you name it I was doing it. I never considered a Mac because I couldn't upgrade and tweak. I also thought that you couldn't get all the programs available on Windows.

Then I started to listen to the TWIT tech podcast and through that I listened to Macbreak Weekly. I was so jealous about both the passion that the hosts had for the Mac and also all the cool programs they were talking about that I couldn't get for Windows. But I still could make the switch. Then when Apple moved to Intel and I could run windows as well as OS X I thought it didn't make any sense not to switch.

Now, since getting my Mac I only load windows to run the two programs that I cannot get on OS X. Both of them are very specific pieces of software used for running scientific instruments and the associated data analysis. I have a three year old Macbook and while writing my PhD thesis it was running photoshop, illustrator, Word, excel, keynote, endnote AND windows concurrently.

In three years I have only ever inserted an OS X disc into the drive to upgrade to leopard and then to snow leopard. While running PCs I re-installed windows 95,98,2000,XP and vista more times than I could count. If only I could reclaim that time I would be a younger man!! Furthermore, I don't tweak (much) my Mac (although you certainly can), I've never ran a benchmark, I've not spent hours studying 100 versions of a new graphics card or cooling system.

I don't maintain it, I just use it!!! For me that has been the difference.

And one more thing, any discussion of price has to take into account both the customer service provided by Apple and the iLife software include with every Mac. To buy the same quality equivalent software on a PC would more than make up for the price difference. (Although I must admit, I have read that Microsoft have managed to improve windows movie maker)
 
I find myself in the same position. I have used windows pc's for years, along with windows laptops. I find myself drooling in the apple store for either a macbook or macbook pro. I dont really need one as I have a good 17" windows 7 laptop, but I want one.:nuts:

One good piece of advice is find someone at uni and take them with you to the Apple store and make sure you get the uni discount (15%).

Luckily my niece is at uni, so she will be accompanying me if I succumb to temptation and buy one.
 
toph101 said:
I can only speak from personal experience. I used PCs for many years and being the geek that I am I built several PCs from scratch. I was constantly upgrading, tweaking, overclocking you name it I was doing it. I never considered a Mac because I couldn't upgrade and tweak. I also thought that you couldn't get all the programs available on Windows.

Then I started to listen to the TWIT tech podcast and through that I listened to Macbreak Weekly. I was so jealous about both the passion that the hosts had for the Mac and also all the cool programs they were talking about that I couldn't get for Windows. But I still could make the switch. Then when Apple moved to Intel and I could run windows as well as OS X I thought it didn't make any sense not to switch.

Now, since getting my Mac I only load windows to run the two programs that I cannot get on OS X. Both of them are very specific pieces of software used for running scientific instruments and the associated data analysis. I have a three year old Macbook and while writing my PhD thesis it was running photoshop, illustrator, Word, excel, keynote, endnote AND windows concurrently.

In three years I have only ever inserted an OS X disc into the drive to upgrade to leopard and then to snow leopard. While running PCs I re-installed windows 95,98,2000,XP and vista more times than I could count. If only I could reclaim that time I would be a younger man!! Furthermore, I don't tweak (much) my Mac (although you certainly can), I've never ran a benchmark, I've not spent hours studying 100 versions of a new graphics card or cooling system.

I don't maintain it, I just use it!!! For me that has been the difference.

And one more thing, any discussion of price has to take into account both the customer service provided by Apple and the iLife software include with every Mac. To buy the same quality equivalent software on a PC would more than make up for the price difference. (Although I must admit, I have read that Microsoft have managed to improve windows movie maker)
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There are replies in these threads like this every time and I always wonder why that is a positive?

So you spend all your time upgrading your PC but since moving to a mac you haven't upgraded it. Why didn't you just stop upgrading your PC? Why buy a Mac because you couldn't upgrade?

That's tantamount to saying "I can't stop drinking alcohol, so I stranded myself on a desert island!":lol:

You don't NEED to upgrade your PC yet it would function perfectly for several years, just like your mac if you didn't.
 
Amp34 said:
There are replies in these threads like this every time and I always wonder why that is a positive?

So you spend all your time upgrading your PC but since moving to a mac you haven't upgraded it. Why didn't you just stop upgrading your PC? Why buy a Mac because you couldn't upgrade?

That's tantamount to saying "I can't stop drinking alcohol, so I stranded myself on a desert island!":lol:

You don't NEED to upgrade your PC yet it would function perfectly for several years, just like your mac if you didn't.
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I actually said that I was reluctant to buy a Mac because I couldn't upgrade it!

So "I avoided the desert island because there was no alcohol there!" all the time not realising that the island was great fun without alcohol! lol

This was just a description of my personal experience. This is what I did with my PC and what I do with my Mac. As a PC user I had the opinion that Macs were inferior because I couldn't upgrade them, this is why I consider the point relevant.

However, when it comes to the OS, I did need to reinstall windows regularly because it wasn't functioning at all. But I have never had to reinstall OS X. Now, if I never spoke to anyone else I might believe that I was unlucky while using windows and very lucky while using OS X. But I am not the only one who reports having an easier life after switching to Mac.

The big question for this thread is what proportion of people switch from Mac to PC and PC to Mac!! I very rarely here of anyone switching from Mac to PC, especially if they originated from a PC. Although, I am sure the information I receive is biased since I read/listen to more (though not exclusively) mac-centric blogs and podcasts.
 
I initially found the switch to mac extremely good. The lack of crashes, the ease and speed of software installs, the UI, overall look and feel, and just how stable and secure it all felt. I was on the back of a VERY BAD few months trying to tame Vista.

WIth regards to Windows, it has never (to me) been even remotely as stable long term as my current mac is. Windows always required a fresh install every other 6 months, and this eventually ****ed me off. Vista ran like a dog for me, and I eventually moved over to a client install of Server 2008 (like it very much). Windows 7 has absolutely got my enthusiasm for now, and it feels just like OSX did when I first used it. No major crashes yet, but a few annoyances (just as their are on the mac)...

I maintain, both Windows and OSX are excellent. Whilst I personally prefer using my iMac, and whilst I feel OSX gets the edge ever so slightly for it's UI, ease of use and stability, Windows is still spectacular. Windows 7 in particular feels special, I just hope the days of needing a reinstall every 6 months or so are over...

Gary.
 
Crazy Dino said:
I like all the mac people saying your paying for quality...

So your telling me im not just paying for the apple badge on the front.....
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Here's a mac user telling you that you're most certainly paying a hefty premium for the badge. I wouldn't go as far as to say "just" for the badge but there's no getting away from the fact that a macbook or iPhone in plain and anonymous case wouldn't fetch the same money.
 
dazzajl said:
Here's a mac user telling you that you're most certainly paying a hefty premium for the badge. I wouldn't go as far as to say "just" for the badge but there's no getting away from the fact that a macbook or iPhone in plain and anonymous case wouldn't fetch the same money.
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Please don't take this the wrong way but that's just silly! :D A macbook or iphone in a plane case wouldn't be a macbook or iphone.

Also, iphones are no more expensive than any other smart phone, at launch at least. It's only demand that keeps them from falling in price like any other phone as they age. In fact I my iphone 3G was free when I got it, my 3GS was £270 because my contract hadn't expired, but I sold the 3G for £330 which more than covered it. Before I had an iphone I had a Nokia E65 which cost me about £120 and my previous nokia only sold for £20. So I don't think the 'overpriced' argument really applies to iphones.

Anyway, this won't help the OP decide what the fuss is about. ;)
 
neil_g said:
just to reitterate what gary just said, W7 for us anyway has been extremely stable. if you havent tried it yet its worth a serious look.
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I agree. I have it on my iMac and MacBook and it is very stable. Although so is XP on both these machines, but I won't claim that has anything to do with the Apple hardware. All the windows installs I have in VMware have very few programs installed so they are going to run smoothly.

With windows 7, the paying field has certainly been levelled. Whatever you prefer is good for you! Canon/Nikon/Sony, Mac/PC, Chocolate/Vanilla!! :)
 
toph101 said:
I actually said that I was reluctant to buy a Mac because I couldn't upgrade it!

So "I avoided the desert island because there was no alcohol there!" all the time not realising that the island was great fun without alcohol! lol

This was just a description of my personal experience. This is what I did with my PC and what I do with my Mac. As a PC user I had the opinion that Macs were inferior because I couldn't upgrade them, this is why I consider the point relevant.
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:). My point wasn't quite aimed at you, however it was close to the usual posts that are addressed more accurately by my post. People would comment that they spent their time upgrading and fiddling with their PC and then moved to mac and it "just worked" and they didn't upgrade or fiddle. There was no real need to upgrade or fiddle with their windows machine but because they could they would and them complain about the fact they could...:thinking::lol:

toph101 said:
However, when it comes to the OS, I did need to reinstall windows regularly because it wasn't functioning at all. But I have never had to reinstall OS X. Now, if I never spoke to anyone else I might believe that I was unlucky while using windows and very lucky while using OS X. But I am not the only one who reports having an easier life after switching to Mac.

The big question for this thread is what proportion of people switch from Mac to PC and PC to Mac!! I very rarely here of anyone switching from Mac to PC, especially if they originated from a PC. Although, I am sure the information I receive is biased since I read/listen to more (though not exclusively) mac-centric blogs and podcasts.
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What OS were you using? XP and earlier really did need this, I used to reinstall my XP install every few months, however Vista and windows 7 you don't need to do that. What version of OSX are you running now? Snow leopard? If so in that case you are comparing a piece of software less than a year old to a piece of software over 8 years old, superceded by two other versions of windows.

The problem is the same with a lot of mac users, they are comparing their newly released OS with one that is 8 years old. It's interesting to note how well recieved Windows 7 is, including the mac users using snow leopard.
 
toph101 said:
Please don't take this the wrong way but that's just silly! :D A macbook or iphone in a plane case wouldn't be a macbook or iphone.

Also, iphones are no more expensive than any other smart phone, at launch at least. It's only demand that keeps them from falling in price like any other phone as they age. In fact I my iphone 3G was free when I got it, my 3GS was £270 because my contract hadn't expired, but I sold the 3G for £330 which more than covered it. Before I had an iphone I had a Nokia E65 which cost me about £120 and my previous nokia only sold for £20. So I don't think the 'overpriced' argument really applies to iphones.

Anyway, this won't help the OP decide what the fuss is about. ;)
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Especially when you consider sim free most iPhone models are cheaper than their rivals, it's only the contract that is actually more expensive. Funnily enough a few contracts would actually work out cheaper if you bought the iPhone sim free/PAYG and use a simplicity tariff. :)
 
Point well made amp, I probably shouldn't have mentioned the phone. :lol:
 
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