Just totally wasted 2 films

Mahoneyd187

Mahoneyd187

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Danny
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...trying to load the reel of the paterson tank. Tonight was going to be my first attempt at developing my own black and white 120.

As anticapted, I ****ed it up...but it surprised me it was at the first hurdle.

I've seen the youtube videos, most of them anyway I think, but just can't get used to it.

What techniques do you guys use to load the reels with 120 film?

Highly frustrated with this...I've been practicing with the films I ballsed up but still cant get to grips with it, especially in the bloody changing bag :razz:

I'm concerned that even once I've managed to load the thing, I will have handled the film far FAR too much and ruined it anyway?!

:bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang::bang:

:shrug:
 
:lol:

joxby said:
I do remember though a few years ago, posting boiling rage posts at a forum not unlike this one after early 120 loading failures.
You do think you'll never do it.
You can't imagine why anyone would try to do it.
And even if you did do it, could you even be arsed to do it again.
All I can say is, one minute it was mission impossible, and the next they were practically loading themselves.
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You can handle the film a little if you are gentle.
I've never used a changing bag and as such I imagine its a pain in the arse, its hard enough to get the hang of loading without fannying about under a duvet with umpteen miscellaneous bits of developing tackle, darkroom table for me...:)
 
Thought you could use a red light with b & w film?? Might be easier to wait until dark and do it under a red light so you can at least see what you're doing.

Could never get the hang of getting even 35mm off the reel and into the developy thingummy. That is the biggest hurdle. The dev bit in the tanks following instructions is easy peasy compared to getting the ruddy film off the ruddy reel!! I have no idea how much more difficult it is within a changing bag. I'd imagine a lot more so unless you have a much bigger changing bag with some kind of frame inside where you can move around freely without grabbing bits of changing bag by mistake you'll just end up annoyed.

Digital is so much easier. Plug in camera. Download ;)
 
You can't use a red light unless it's ortho film which I doubt it is. Unfortunately it comes down to practise, but I do round the corners of the film slightly as I find this helps
 
On my multi-size paterson reel, I find an elastic band helps keep the reel set at the right size. It's a bit old, and the gap betweent the two spirals has a tendancy to grow and the film unthread otherwise.
How much of the roll are you managing to get on?
 
With 120, I find folding the bit of tape on the end of the film over helps me get it onto the runners. Patience is all you need, also a nice big changing bag helps too, my first one was way too small and that wound me up no end!
 
sorry to here of your troubles, I can't offer any advice because i'me in the same boat shall we say, but i'me only useing 35mm
 
OK, my own experience has been that changing bags are too difficult, it may be a product of my childhood but I load my films onto the spiral in the cupboard under the stairs, it may be a little cramped but at least if you get into problems you can jam everything into the tank and leave it for a while then go back to it.

Also, and I know others will disagree with this, but I don't get on with Patterson spirals, for me they are difficult to use and jam up at any opportunity, get yourself a Jobo tank and spiral, they are so much easier to use.

And practice, practice, practice.
 
they're a pain in the arse, hate it so much. Usually takes me forever, and that's in the darkroom, not in a bag... :(

if you can, get a dead/old reel to practice on in the light.
 
It can be a massive pain, but you'll get there. After I've taken the film off the backing paper I actually reroll the film so the part that was furthest inside is now the leading edge, and the leading edge is the furthest inside the roll. Not sure why, but makes the loading a lot easier. Make sure the reel is bone dry. Lastly, I have a cut out piece of paper the same diameter as a 120 roll which I feed into the reel and check to see if the reel takes it up properly - just in case there's any small blockages or stuff in the grooves.

Don't lose faith, it can be a pain at first but practice genuinely makes perfect on the technique.
 
Practice I'm afraid but what can help is putting a bulldog clip on the end of the film, which keeps it nice and straight when you put it on the reel.
 
I'm not sure which part of the spiral loading was problematic for you, but there's a few things I've done which have so far worked for me.
I use the smallest changing bag (must get a bigger size) and it's a tight squeeze, especially with the endless backing paper confusing the issue after it's unwound and making sure to work quickly to stop it getting too clammy.

I haven't seen the YouTube video to see what they suggest, but I grab the leading edge of the film and 'pull' it through past the ball bearings rather than trying to push it through, this helps in making sure the film is inserted into the slots on both sides and one hasn't been missed as the film tries to bow inwards over it's width.
I line up the left and right slots/ball bearings so they're parallel and hold the reel tight with my right hand and then pull the film through for the first inch or so with my left. Then I start rocking the reel back and forwards and have my fingertips over the edges of the reel 'helping' to pull the film forwards. By also having my thumbs over the edge of the reel in contact with the film edge I can feel when the end has disappeared & is therefore wound on.
I've not had any image quality issues (apart from the obvious I'm-the-photographer issues) by having finger contact with the film at this stage.
 
Don't know what your specific problem was Danny but the biggest problem I've had has been the little ball bearings sticking in the loading reels. Make sure they move freely before you put everything in the changing bag and you can always add a little graphite by going over them with a pencil.

Another tip is cutting the corners off the leading edge of the film, just a little bit though, if you cut too much off the film can pop out of the runners too easily.

I don't know if anyone else does this but first I take the film completely off it's spool and remove the paper backing, leaving the sticky tape attached to the film. I then re-roll the film in my fingers so that the tape is on the outside of the reel not the inside. I find this bit of tape helps stiffen the leading edge of the film as you feed it through.

Another thing is to wiggle the halves of the loading reel slightly, they're not exactly precision engineered so they can form tight spots if they're not parallel.

The biggest thing though is patience. I generally load the bag up and then sit on the sofa and do it while watching TV. I too have trashed too many film by getting frustrated.
 
Thanks all for your advice so far.

I really should've said where I'm getting stuck, and it's literally right at the very beginning, trying to get the bloody film to even start in the reel, before even getting to the ball bearings.

Another thing I really need to know is just how much can I handle the film whilst doing this?

Is it best to fully unspool the film before loading it onto the reel? Because that's what I tried, but I came into contact with the film quite a lot and it seemed unavoidable.

Really really REALLY tempted to sack this off already, I don't have patience for fiddly ****

Just spent £100 on the devving equipment though...couldn't be more frustrated with it
 
If you don't have the patience for fiddly stuff then devving your own film isn't going to make you happy! Might be easier to send it to a lab until you've learnt to meditate :D

If handling the film is a problem I wonder whether wearing thin gloves would be the answer. Those sort the archivists use for messing with old books. Would reduce the opportunity for finger prints.

Would night vision goggles fog the film I wonder... then you'd be able to see what you were doing and it might be less frustrating....
 
I bought some thin cotton gloves from ag when I bought the devving gear, next time I'll make sure I wear them.

Buying night vision goggles for the sake of loading film isn't an option lol.
 
I've just read a little tip/trick online that I feel may help may feeble attempts.

Cutting a 120 film box to fit in the recesses and pushed up to the ball bearings almost, to act as a guide, so you can literally just push the film down onto, and along, the cardboard strip and onto the start of the reel, HOPEFULLY.

Can anyone see any cons to using this method? Like running the undeveloped film against the cardboard surface, will it damage the film/first image?
 
You shouldn't need to handle the film that much Danny TBH. When unloading the film from the spool I hold the spool between the thumb and middle finger on one hand and pull at the backing paper with the other. As I pull at the paper I scrunch it up in my hand and as it unwinds the film tends to roll up into a little roll of it's own.

I only tend to touch the sides of the film except for when I cut the corners off and there's usually a bit of space at the beginning and end of the film with no frames on so if you're careful you don't touch the film then either.

If you've properly ballsed up the first two rolls I'd keep using them for training purposes. That is unless you've creased them trying to feed them into the developing reel, they're a pig to move once they're creased.
 
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Kev M said:
You shouldn't need to handle the film that much Danny TBH. When unloading the film from the spool I hold the spool between the thumb and middle finger on one hand and pull at the backing paper with the other. As I pull at the paper I scrunch it up in my hand and as it unwinds the film tends to roll up into a little roll of it's own.

I only tend to touch the sides of the film except for when I cut the corners off and there's usually a bit of space at the beginning and end of the film with no frames on so if you're careful you don't touch the film then either.

If you've properly ballsed up the first two rolls I'd keep using them for training purposes. That is unless you've creased them trying to feed them into the developing reel, they're a pig to move once they're creased.
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Thanks for the info Kev. So if I let the film unwind into the bag, it won't damage due to contact with the inside of the bag at all or anything?

First two rolls are beyond creased, I got all immature and frustrated, they got elbow dropped and stamped on.:shake:
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Thanks for the info Kev. So if I let the film unwind into the bag, it won't damage due to contact with the inside of the bag at all or anything?
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Not in my experience so long as you take reasonable precautions. If you're holding the film reel up in one hand the film should roll up on itself pretty close to the reel and once it's fully unravelled it should be wrapped in the lead/tail of the film so any image area won't touch the bag.
 
It's a long time since I loaded film spirals, but I used to do it when I was a kid (120 and 35mm) so I'm assuming I got the hang of it. I think it's just one of those frustrating things that eventually sorts itself out - like learning to manage the gears, clutch and accelerator when you're learning to drive - and then you don't understand why anyone is struggling with it!
 
Kev M said:
I don't know if anyone else does this but first I take the film completely off it's spool and remove the paper backing, leaving the sticky tape attached to the film. I then re-roll the film in my fingers so that the tape is on the outside of the reel not the inside. I find this bit of tape helps stiffen the leading edge of the film as you feed it through.
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I do this, although I never realised it could be the tape helping (since half the time I take it off).

Danny - don't lose faith, seriously. There are people far less skilled and able who have successfully done it, and the driving metaphor is spot on. I know it seems a faff, but when you pull your first line of negatives out of the tank, it's almost magical.
 
Right...update....

After my ridiculous attempt and teenage rage that followed, I shot a roll of HP5 just for the sake of having something to develop.

Tonight I did it successfully. It took me literally 5mins to load the reel, so no great strop this time. It wasn't easy by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm getting there lol.

They're drying now, may scan them tomorrow :)
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Right...update....

After my ridiculous attempt and teenage rage that followed, I shot a roll of HP5 just for the sake of having something to develop.

Tonight I did it successfully. It took me literally 5mins to load the reel, so no great strop this time. It wasn't easy by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm getting there lol.

They're drying now, may scan them tomorrow :)
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:clap::clap::clap:Nice one Danny, it's just practice and not getting frustrated when it won't load first off :bang:
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
It wasn't easy by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm getting there lol.

They're drying now, may scan them tomorrow :)
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Nice one, I promise it gets easier! I remember my first time trying to get it on the reel was essentially just a constant stream of swear words in a blacked out room, but it gets better! I actually find 120 easier, but it seems I'm in a minority on that (the film length. hold 35mm roll and it'll still touch the floor, but a 120 won't reach as far)
 
freecom2 said:
Nice one, I promise it gets easier! I remember my first time trying to get it on the reel was essentially just a constant stream of swear words in a blacked out room, but it gets better! I actually find 120 easier, but it seems I'm in a minority on that (the film length. hold 35mm roll and it'll still touch the floor, but a 120 won't reach as far)
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Cheers fella and thanks all for the support lol

Here's the first and only scan I've done so far, I shot the HP5 so I had something to develop, so the Mrs got drafted in for a quick snap.

I'm pleased I'm working with film now, MF film blows 35mm digital out of the water IMO :thumbs:

http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=346822
6080724150_168bdb4170_b.jpg
 
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Nice one Danny :thumbs: Really pleased to read you've got some results you're happy with :)
 
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