Johnson family in Manchester?

antonroland

antonroland

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Hello Everyone

OK, before you wonder what this is about, I stumbled across a vintage film camera and some booklets with notes on exposures...the original owner seems to have been one Wilfrid T.C. Johnson from Manchester.

I find this quite intriguing for a few reasons,(1) the camera ended up in South Africa and (2) I would like to know more about who and what the original owner could have been...

Now I posted this in here as I would like some serious chances of feedback without the thread disappearing in a forum such as out of focus or similar, hoping Mods will approve...

For more info please see my blog here:

http://www.antonroland.com/2012/12/boys-and-their-toys-with-a-seriously-vintage-flavour/
 
Hi there.
I live close to an address that could be the one mentioned in the notebook, it's a rather large house called Northfield on Bury Old Road, Prestwich. Manchester. I know several people called Johnson in the area, so if you give me a little time I will make a few phone calls and maybe some can give you a clue or two!
Unfortunately I cant get out yet as I am struggling with a (mending) broken leg, so willhave to do everything on the blower!
 
wontolla said:
Hi there.
I live close to an address that could be the one mentioned in the notebook, it's a rather large house called Northfield on Bury Old Road, Prestwich. Manchester. I know several people called Johnson in the area, so if you give me a little time I will make a few phone calls and maybe some can give you a clue or two!
Unfortunately I cant get out yet as I am struggling with a (mending) broken leg, so willhave to do everything on the blower!
Click to expand...

That would be FANTASTIC!!

Thank you!

I am simply intrigued by the whole thing and the internet does make it easy to do this kind of thing.

I would be quite interested to know how this Mr Johnson ended up in S.A. as it must have been at the time of or just after the Anglo Boer wars...but looking at his entries this must have been a fairly wealthy fellow...travelling to India through the mediterranean and Egypt (Suez canal?)

It would seem he had little worries about war and probably reached S.A. in June / July 1901.

There is actually an entry on 12 July 1901 at 4:30 pm of him photographing a "Boer Camp"...

OK, I will stop now...:p
 
I had a quick look on ancestry.co.uk and found somebody called Wilfrid Thomas Clarkson Johnson, born 1879 in Eccles, Lancshire (well, Manchesterish). He then appeared in the 1891 census in aged 11 in boarding school, and again in a boat from SA to England in 1924 aged 45, profession farmer.

Of course genealogy is often a huge wild goose chase and they may be different people entirely.
 
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kenm said:
I had a quick look on ancestry.co.uk and found somebody called Wilfred Thomas Clarkson Johnson, born 1879 in Eccles, Lancshire (well, Manchesterish). He then appeared in the 1891 census in aged 11 in boarding school, and again in a boat from SA to England in 1924 aged 45, profession farmer.

Of course genealogy is often a huge wild goose chase and they may be different people entirely.
Click to expand...

Hello Kenm and thanks for that.:thumbs::thumbs:

It does fit in with the info I have...I have been going through those entries again and the typical pictures he took is consistent with a younger man...many girls feature...

I am fairly sure he must have been from a rather wealthy family too...drawing rooms, clubs etc etc, many things in his entries hinting at a fairly wealthy or at least fairly upper middle class background.

What would he have been doing spending time in Ceylon on tea farms though?

Then his records dry up in late 1903 with one or two cryptic inscriptions in 1905 and 1910...suppose he could not get glass plates at his local S.A. outlet...

What does interest me further is that he clearly spells his first name as Wilfrid in both booklets... not Wilfred...
 
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OK, heres what I have learned from a distant cousin of what may be the family you are looking for.
There WAS a Wilfred Percy Clarkson Johnson, who lived at Northfield, Bury Old Road, Manchester.
Apparantly they originated in Eccles before moving to Prestwich. He went to Manchester
University as a Student, maybe for photography? He served as Captain in the Manchester Regiment in
the Boer War and also in Egypt, eventually meeting his maker on the 16th May 1915 at Helles, Gallipoli.
Thats all I can find out at the moment, possibly archives at the unversity or MOD can give more information on your man?

 
Wow!

How brilliant is this thread.

Really hope you track your man down. I shall be following with immense interest.
 
Well, in the 1881 census again, James Johnson and Mary Johnson from Eccles had a son Percy who was then six. They also had Wilfrid who was one. All middle initials are C. So maybe the guy Baz found is my guy's older brother.

They must have had money to buy a camera like that in those days!

I'm still finding my way around ancestry.co.uk, but my other half has a subscription so I might as well make some use of it.
 
Cheers for all the responses folks!:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

I would love to be able to post images of every single page in these booklets but that would really take a while...if anyone would like to see it, let me know and I will make a plan.

I do not think our man was in the military...the time line to his photos and travels take him out of the Anglo Boer war decidedly...

Aaaahhh what the hell, let me start snapping, then I can show you folks all the inscriptions for yourself rather than me passing along filtered selected bit...
 
OK, here goes...

A seriously long string of images will follow so please bear with me here.


M5V8374.jpg



M5V8375.jpg


I will probably put them up 2-3 images per post and this will take some time so for anyone who is not really interested in this thread...you were warned...LOL
 
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For interest sake and for those who did not see it on my blog, this is the camera.

M5V5732.jpg
 
And these are the two booklets I got with the camera...

M5V8365.jpg
 
OK, so getting into the thick of things, what will follow now is a string of images of the left-hand side pages as the right-hand side only lists exposure and development details...

M5V8377.jpg



M5V8378.jpg



M5V8379.jpg
 
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Now I battle a bit to read the man's handwriting in places but I am thinking folks in Manchester and surrounds might also have more knowledge of the places and names...
 
Some more...

M5V8380.jpg



M5V8381.jpg



M5V8382.jpg


I believe these might give some insight into where our Mr Johnson traveled and there are about 10-15 more which I am putting up strictly in chronological order.

This is only the first booklet...

I will put up more if anyone believes that these images are of value, even if only for interest's sake?

Cheers everyone
 
M5V8374.jpg


Looking at this image again, I find it interesting that he wrote the S.A. address (top left) in ink.

This is not too far from where I live, about 4-5 hours' drive and so I think I will be visiting that area next year when I take some long leave.

Bushman's Kop (Hill) is an easily verifiable landmark near Rouxville which is also steeped in AB war history.

The name "Clearwater" could have been a farm but this is a fairly common name for farms in that area and other areas in S.A. and it could also have changed over the years.

Bushman's Kop and Rouxville are more fixed and permanent and this is also very near the modern day Lesotho which used to be known as Basutoland in those days...

I am beginning to think that Kenm's Mr Johnson may very well be our Mr Johnson...:D

Question is, will there be any living descendants and will they really care to know?
 
Fabulous thread, I shall be following this with interest as not only am I interested in photography (really? who would have thought it?) but I have done a fair bit of family history research as well. Excellent stuff.

Andy
 
Some more, still in absolute chronological order...

M5V8383.jpg



M5V8384.jpg



M5V8385.jpg
 
M5V8386.jpg



M5V8387.jpg



M5V8388.jpg
 
M5V8389.jpg



M5V8390.jpg



M5V8391.jpg
 
M5V8396.jpg



This is the last page in the one booklet, I deliberately under-exposed it as the pencil entries are very feint.

There also seems to be some overlapping between the two booklets, if anyone is really interested to see the contents of the other booklet, let me know and I will put them up.

I think this should be clear by now that our Mr Johnson was a well-traveled man and not one burdened by military service...unless senior commissioned officers also lived like wealthy gentlemen?

Cheers all!
 
What a fascinating thread, once again proving without doubt that the F&C section is the most interesting, diverse and enjoyable section of TP. I'll be following this with interest and cant wait to hear more, particularly if you manage to make it up to Bushman's Kop next year.
 
RaglanSurf said:
What a fascinating thread, once again proving without doubt that the F&C section is the most interesting, diverse and enjoyable section of TP. I'll be following this with interest and cant wait to hear more, particularly if you manage to make it up to Bushman's Kop next year.
Click to expand...

For sure and thanks for the comment RS!

Please remind me or bump this thread if I did not add anything in a month or two...day to day doings can be a bit hectic...

You can also follow my blog here if you like

http://www.antonroland.com/blog/

Or the LF forum here:

http://www.largeformatphotography.i...uot-British-quot&p=960839&posted=1#post960839

Cheers!:thumbs:

Anton
 
I suspect that a man in his position, apparently at least upper middle-class, commissioned and with money would have lived very well indeed. He may well have been 'connected' and thus get invited to stay with well-to-do families. At this point in history I think the British class structure was about as rigid as it got and if you were in, you were in everywhere.

Andy
 
Talawakelle is near Nuwara Eliya where the famous Hill Club is situated so I would imagine he certainly would have been part of the 'in set' of the day.
In fact they may still have membership details available for you to enquire - it really is as if the place was lost in time!
 
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gramps said:
Talawakelle is near Nuwara Eliya where the famous Hill Club is situated so I would imagine he certainly would have been part of the 'in set' of the day.
In fact they may still have membership details available for you to enquire - it really is as if the place was lost in time!
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Hello Gramps and thanks for the response!

Where exactly is this place you talk about? Remember I am at the bottom tip of Africa...

:thumbs:
 
The time gaps are interesting.

6 months from Sept. 1898 to March 1899.
7 months from Sept 1899, the month the Manchester Regiment shipped to Durban, to April 1900

One day of entries then a 4 month gap to Augustus.
One day of entries then a 7 month gap Feb 1901

9 months from May 1901 to Jan 1902
7 months from Feb 1902 to Aug 1902

I would guess this pattern is consistent for a connected army officer during the AB war?

Could be way out though.
 
simon ess said:
The time gaps are interesting.

6 months from Sept. 1898 to March 1899.
7 months from Sept 1899, the month the Manchester Regiment shipped to Durban, to April 1900

One day of entries then a 4 month gap to Augustus.
One day of entries then a 7 month gap Feb 1901

9 months from May 1901 to Jan 1902
7 months from Feb 1902 to Aug 1902

I would guess this pattern is consistent for a connected army officer during the AB war?

Could be way out though.
Click to expand...

Very true, I spotted those gaps but spent more time snapping, copying, pasting and uploading rather than to apply my mind...

But why the sojourn in India?

And why did he not return to Britain after the war?

Would troop ships have sailed through the Med and Suez rather than straight down the west of Africa?

Many questions indeed...

I wonder what the chances are of finding relatives who would know?
 
antonroland said:
Hello Gramps and thanks for the response!

Where exactly is this place you talk about? Remember I am at the bottom tip of Africa...

:thumbs:
Click to expand...

It's in Sri Lanka (Ceylon) in the hill country near the tea plantations.
The Hill Club is an old 'Gentleman's Club' from the era of the Raj and remains much the same today as it was then ... jacket for dinner, Gentleman's Bar & Ladies Bar etc.
I can't find a website for them but there is information HERE, HERE and HERE - I can't find an email address for them either :)
 
i think there are overlaps between the booklets.

I will photograph the second booklet later today / tonight and post those...
 
antonroland said:
But why the sojourn in India? Posted there? Or just liked to travel?

And why did he not return to Britain after the war? Good, cheap farmland?

Would troop ships have sailed through the Med and Suez rather than straight down the west of Africa? Yes, the Suez.
Click to expand...

All random musings of course :)
 
gramps said:
It's in Sri Lanka (Ceylon) in the hill country near the tea plantations.
The Hill Club is an old 'Gentleman's Club' from the era of the Raj and remains much the same today as it was then ... jacket for dinner, Gentleman's Bar & Ladies Bar etc.
I can't find a website for them but there is information HERE, HERE and HERE - I can't find an email address for them either :)
Click to expand...

Thanks Gramps!

I think you will find the second booklet interesting then as there are several entries about the tea farms...some possibly not so PC in this day and age:p
 
antonroland said:
Thanks Gramps!

I think you will find the second booklet interesting then as there are several entries about the tea farms...some possibly not so PC in this day and age:p
Click to expand...

I can imagine, The Hill Club is allegedly still only open to Brits & Europeans officially, much to the chagrin of the local Sri Lankans - we certainly didn't see any local residents when we were there ... all credit though, when I arrived without a jacket for dinner they found me one that fitted perfectly and matched my trousers :D
 
gramps said:
I can imagine, The Hill Club is allegedly still only open to Brits & Europeans officially, much to the chagrin of the local Sri Lankans - we certainly didn't see any local residents when we were there ... all credit though, when I arrived without a jacket for dinner they found me one that fitted perfectly and matched my trousers :D
Click to expand...

So did you take your warm water bottle with or without ears then?:D
 
The 1891 census has him as a boarder at Sedbergh School so he might still have been there in 1898. They built a chapel there in 1897 and it is in the parish of St Andrews so it ties in with what he writes in the first pages of the book.

Also, I am wondering if he is related to this bunch:

http://www.gracesguide.co.uk/Richard_Johnson_and_Nephew

The father appears in the 1851 census in the same school as one John Thewlis Johnson, the same name as the nephew in the above. The Bradford is the one in East Manchester, not West Yorkshire.
 
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Very very interesting thread/Blog.....one that i will be following closely.

To be able to pinpoint even snippits of history stirs the imagination.

Very best of luck in your research.
 
I have started making enquiries in the Rouxville area, now awaiting the telephone number of a guy in Rouxville who has been in the town since forever and is an authority on Rouxville history.

Maybe he can help a bit with information about our Mr Johnson...:thumbs:
 
You could perhaps approach a local archive or history library to see if they have any Street Directories for the time and the place - Most UK Towns had them. They were the yellow pages of the day, and a photographer might have advertised his services in one. You may also find army service records on Ancestry.com.
 
To sum up:

1881 Census, we have Wilfrid, born in Eccles around 1880. James and Mary Johnson are his parents living at Booth’s Hall Avenue in Worsley. Also listed are brothers Percy C (age 6), Harold M (4), and Leonard C T (3 weeks or months).

1891 Census has Wilfrid at prep school in Sedbergh. This census doesn’t tell us much else. Think father died previous year.

1901 Census has no mention of Wilfrid, but Percy (26), Harold W? (24), Leonard C (20) living with Mary. Northfield and Bury Old Road are mentioned but the address is a bit confusing.

1911 Census has Harold Marsland Johnson living with wife and two children, Alfred Clarkson (7) and Betty Clarkson (3). They are at The Old Tannery Tynnes Cheshire. No idea where this is but the district is Bucklow, not far from where I live.

There is a military record of a Percy Clarkson Johnson of the Manchester Regiment getting killed in action on 15 May 1915, and there is a probate record stating death at Dardenelles which ties in with what Baz says. However , he is listed as being from Namilongwi Pemba, Northern Rhodesia.

James (the father) is listed in the 1881 census as being a cotton spinner employing 78 people. However there is a probate entry saying James Clarkson Johnson died on 28 March 1890 as an ironmaster at Bradford Iron Works. Brother is listed as John Thewlis Johnson, hence why I think he is related to this bunch and is the same person. Estate valued at £41,531,9s,8d, btw. That would have paid for the camera.

Finally, Harold Marsland Johnson turns up dead in 1949 with Robert Alfred Clarkson named in probate. One of the same name crops up in the UK patent applications as applying for a patent in 1930 on behalf of the Bradford Iron Works: http://patent.ipexl.com/GB/GB347045.html

Phew.

Shame the globetrotting exploits of Wilfrid prevent him from appearing in the UK records, though.
 
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