Joanna Yeates -Body Now Found.

  • Thread starter Thread starter CT
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CT said:
Well that's encouraging if it's the actually the case.

Time of death is usually calculated from body temperature taking into account the effect of ambient temperature...
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Body temp and de-comp.
The body being frozen solid buggers everything up nicely. She could have been there all week or just three days.

Apparently the snow had melted to reveal the corpse, otherwise it still might not have been found: the snow round here has been lying since it first fell in November - we just keep getting fresh top-ups to keep it nice and white-looking.
 
Thankless task for the HO pathologist Rob. The case I metioned was similar in that the dead woman was reported missing but turned up dead in a disused lock-up garage a week later in freezing conditions similar to these and just on Christmas too. The pathologist was of the view she'd been dead no more than 24 hours (no doubt being pressed more than he'd like to be to be specific)

It threw us a complete curve in that we were looking at a scenario where she'd possibly been held somewhere for a week prior to being killed. In the event it turned out her husband had killed her on the day he repoorted her missing.
 
They can still use the digestive tract as a TOD indicator IIRC, although it's nowhere near as accurate as body temp and you also need to know when the last meal was eaten.

It's a serious SWAG, but needs must etc.
 
CT said:
Thankless task for the HO pathologist Rob. The case I metioned was similar in that the dead woman was reported missing but turned up dead in a disused lock-up garage a week later in freezing conditions similar to these and just on Christmas too. The pathologist was of the view she'd been dead no more than 24 hours (no doubt being pressed more than he'd like to be to be specific)

It threw us a complete curve in that we were looking at a scenario where she'd possibly been held somewhere for a week prior to being killed. In the event it turned out her husband had killed her on the day he repoorted her missing.
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Should take a leaf out of Ducky's book:

"Jethro! How many times must I tell you? Don't ask me what the time of death was!"

When he was younger, he looked a bit like Ilya Kuryakin, apparently...:thumbs:
 
Arkady2 said:
Should take a leaf out of Ducky's book:

"Jethro! How many times must I tell you? Don't ask me what the time of death was!"

When he was younger, he looked a bit like Ilya Kuryakin, apparently...:thumbs:
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I think that's his uncle....
 
Police have now said her body was missing a sock and have given a description of it.
I don't understand this trickle feeding of information. That sock may have been noticed if mentioned earlier.
 
arclight said:
Police have now said her body was missing a sock and have given a description of it.
I don't understand this trickle feeding of information. That sock may have been noticed if mentioned earlier.
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I think that it is good that they are continuing to 'trickle' info out to the public. It keeps peoples interest alive.


They are probably reluctant to release too much info as this is an ongoing investigation and vital evidence, such as a missing sock, could prove valuable, if said sock was found somewhere because they hadn't alerted the offender as to it's relevence. (ii.e. he/she may not have noticed that it fell off her foot and could prove pretty damning if located.)

Even the Pizza box could be a 'red herring'. I.e. making sure the perpetrator was more concerned about that than anything else.
 
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Arkady2 said:
Should take a leaf out of Ducky's book:

"Jethro! How many times must I tell you? Don't ask me what the time of death was!"

When he was younger, he looked a bit like Ilya Kuryakin, apparently...:thumbs:
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But Gibbs would have still had it sussed within 24 hours.... :D
 
rizla01 said:
I think that it is good that they are continuing to 'trickle' info out to the public. It keeps peoples interest alive.


They are probably reluctant to release too much info as this is an ongoing investigation and vital evidence, such as a missing sock, could prove valuable, if said sock was found somewhere because they hadn't alerted the offender as to it's relevence. (ii.e. he/she may not have noticed that it fell off her foot and could prove pretty damning if located.)

Even the Pizza box could be a 'red herring'. I.e. making sure the perpetrator was more concerned about that than anything else.
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But they have described the sock as size 5, long ski - type sock. No mention of colour. People may have seen that sock in the days right after the body was found and thought nothing of it. Finding it early on could have proved important.
 
It seems that all the press did not publish exactly what the police gave them today:-
"Detective Chief Inspector Phil Jones confirmed that: "When Jo was found at the site in Longwood Lane her coat and boots were missing. These were later found at her flat in Canynge Road.

"One of her socks was missing and we have yet to find this. It is described as a light grey sock with lighter detail on the toes, heel and shin.

"We have not located this sock at the scene or at Jo's home. I am keen to find it, so I would appeal to anyone who may know where it is to contact my team. You can do this on 0845 456 7000 or via www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/jo"
 
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arclight said:
It seems that all the press did not publish exactly what the police gave them today:-
"Detective Chief Inspector Phil Jones confirmed that: "When Jo was found at the site in Longwood Lane her coat and boots were missing. These were later found at her flat in Canynge Road.

"One of her socks was missing and we have yet to find this. It is described as a light grey sock with lighter detail on the toes, heel and shin.

"We have not located this sock at the scene or at Jo's home. I am keen to find it, so I would appeal to anyone who may know where it is to contact my team. You can do this on 0845 456 7000 or via www.avonandsomerset.police.uk/jo"
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I'll bet it's inside one of the boots.
 
They've already found the boots!

Very remiss of the press to fail to report VITAL details. ITV have a cheek criticising the investigation when they fail to pass on all the information the police have given them anyway.
 
srichards said:
They've already found the boots!

Very remiss of the press to fail to report VITAL details. ITV have a cheek criticising the investigation when they fail to pass on all the information the police have given them anyway.
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Especially when it is on the police website. Simple copy and paste job.
 
arclight said:
It seems that all the press did not publish exactly what the police gave them today:-
"Detective Chief Inspector Phil Jones confirmed that: "When Jo was found at the site in Longwood Lane her coat and boots were missing. These were later found at her flat in Canynge Road."
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One has to assume from that statement that she was killed in her flat and the body moved. No matter what the rush, she wouldn't have gone anywhere in that weather without some sort of footwear.

It seems that things are now starting to come to light.

Steve
 
srichards said:
They've already found the boots!

Very remiss of the press to fail to report VITAL details. ITV have a cheek criticising the investigation when they fail to pass on all the information the police have given them anyway.
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It might have been a bit hard for them to get verified information, considering the fact that A&S Police banned them from the Press conference at which the details of the sock were released!
 
So Did she eat the Pizza alone or had she shared it?


Joanna arrived at her flat on her own - or with someone that she knew very well. She wouldn't have removed her shoes otherwise and a murderer is unlikely to remove them before dragging her body out of the flat - or is he?

She was straangled, probably without too much noise, and then dragged off to somewhere as yet unknown. Why? What was the motive behind that. Why not leave her where she fell?

The murderer didn't want her found for a while, obviously. For what benefit? What would he gain from that? Time to get away or time to get back from where he was meant to be (i.e. Boyfriend)?

Or was she abducted and were the coat & boots removed THEN RETURNED to her flat by someone (murderer or accomplice?) after she was killed elsewhere (hence the sock not being in the flat) - More Likely!

There is a LOT of evidence here but where is it pointing.
 
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If you don't want someone to be found for ages then you'd bury them. If you leave them out in the open then you want them to be found. Question remains was she dumped not long after she was killed or several days later? Did they dump her wanting her to be found before she was reported missing? Is this why the B/F returned and didn't report her missing straight away as they were working out an alibi as their original plan was to make it look like she was bumped off when they were away and found before they returned?

Or was she dumped between the time he returned and the time she was reported missing on the Sunday evening as he intended for her to be discovered before then and while he was away but in the flat so there was a hasty plan B so she was dumped to be found at another time and the pizza box disposed of. But not the cider.

Or was it the landlord that left her there to begin with and went back later for the pizza box and to get rid of her? High risk though as the B/F could have returned at any time

Strange they have said there was DNA of another on the cider bottle but not mentioned who or do they not know who it belongs to? Could it be someone else that is unconnected but doesn't want to mention they were there? eg a married man?
 
srichards said:
...If you don't want someone to be found for ages then you'd bury them. If you leave them out in the open then you want them to be found...
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You've obviously never tried digging in frozen soil by hand.
To dig a decent 'shallow grave' (6'x2'x2') would take a good three hours even for an experienced digger and with proper tools - pick and shovel...
A garden spade ain't gonna do the job.

No murderer who hasn't planned beforehand (you dig the grave first, then do the killing) is going to risk being found sweating away over a hole in the ground with a body next to him.

Best soil for digging is light sandy loam. The Surrey Commons being the best in the South of England - you can dig that in any temperature. Worst would be chalky stuff - South Downs and Salisbury Plain, along with slatey stuff like in Wales...takes ages to break through the chalk, but once you're down about three feet it gets easier.

I'm surprised he didn't stuff her in a sandpit on the golf course - much easier...
Or better yet - go out on one of the old Army Training areas and look for old defensive works - dips in the ground - find one of those and you can get down to 6' in a couple of hours - previously turned earth being far easier to dig. The instructors used to keep a wary eye on those of us who'd sussed this early on - they wanted us to work harder...
 
DemiLion said:
It might have been a bit hard for them to get verified information, considering the fact that A&S Police banned them from the Press conference at which the details of the sock were released!
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The sock information is on the police website. Anyone can read it.
 
Anyone who watches CSI can figure this out: only stupid killers get caught.
 
Body probably dumped in a hurry.
Don't know where the cider bottle/DNA story came from. Not in any of the police statements.
Nor have the police been able to confirm (cannot or will not?) if she ate the pizza.
 
I don't do a lot of digging but assumed a fit man would find it no problem..Forgot about the weather aspect. I assume they did too and just dumped her wherever as they had a plan to bury her somewhere then discovered the soil was too flipping hard! Maybe that's where the missing sock is?

Can't remember where I heard the DNA story.
 
Miss Yeates was strangled, but the post mortem found no obvious signs of a sexual assault. She was fully clothed when found, but her coat was found in her flat. A DNA sample from another person was found on her body. Heavy snowfall which covered the body before Christmas made it difficult to determine an accurate timetable of her death..............It is not known if the DNA sample has provided the police with a full and unique DNA profile, or if it is so-called "low copy" DNA, which makes it much harder to identify a single individual.
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THE PIZZA AND CIDER
Miss Yeates bought two bottles of cider from a Bargain Booze shop and a pizza from Tesco Express. One cider bottle was found half empty in the flat and the other was unopened. Police say the pizza is a "vital clue" and suspect the killer may have eaten the pizza and thrown the wrapper into a bin further from the search area. Officers still do not know if she ate the pizza, a full nine days after the post mortem examination. They also do not know who drank from one of the cider bottles.
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On Monday, police revealed that the murderer might have had an accomplice. Boyfriend Greg Reardon is not a suspect because he was en route to Sheffield on the night Miss Yeates disappeared.
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BUT SHE COULD'VE BEEN WITH HIM, COULDN'T SHE?

Fuller details here
 
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srichards said:
I don't do a lot of digging but assumed a fit man would find it no problem..
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Trust me, it's not. Unless you've tried it you have no idea how bloody hard it is. Gardens are one thing - scrubland with tree roots and all sorts of stuff in the ground (assuming you can break the frozen soil to begin with) is an entirely different matter.

How fit is fit?

I'm speaking from personal experience as an Infantry soldier in my 20's (a long time ago now).

Most civilians are nowhere near that fit.

The main suspects so far are a retired schoolmaster and a student...Hmmm...discounting a random killing by someone totally unconnected with her with a lifetime gym membership (unlikely)... I'd say 'not' fit then...
 
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They haven't for some reason named the Criminal profiler but at a guess i would say it's Dr Julian Boon, i found some of his programmes fascinating talking as a criminoligist a few years ago.
 
Arkady2 said:
Trust me, it's not. Unless you've tried it you have no idea how bloody hard it is. Gardens are one thing - scrubland with tree roots and all sorts of stuff in the ground (assuming you can break the frozen soil to begin with) is an entirely different matter.

How fit is fit?

I'm speaking from personal experience as an Infantry soldier in my 20's (a long time ago now).

Most civilians are nowhere near that fit.

The main suspects so far are a retired schoolmaster and a student...Hmmm...discounting a random killing by someone totally unconnected with her with a lifetime gym membership (unlikely)... I'd say 'not' fit then...
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Yes, he does not look as if he is fit enough to lift the body and put it on the other side of the wall.
 
Would be much easier with two people though..... what evidence proves boyfriend was en route to Sheffield at the time? ANPR would only prove his car was on the road but not who was driving. The police seem satisfied he was where he said he was though.

A fireman? They're the only people I can think of that practice picking unconscious people up. I'm sure a dead body would be a right pain to move around. Having an accomplice is risky and they'd have to be bumped off too so you'd have to get rid of their body aswell.

Would a random nutter go to the trouble of dumping her body elsewhere when they could leave it where it was?
 
Too much rationalising going on here. A dead body can indeed be a struggle to lift off the ground let alone carry. You have to put yourself in the postion of the offender, and usually they'll be in somewhat of a panic. They're less concerned about the body not being found - they just want rid of it, and the last thing they they want is to been seen with it or stopped with it in a vehicle.

Loads of bodies turn up on grass verges or just off roads for that reason. Quick look up and down the road - no-one about, heave the body out onto the verge and off. Phew!

Killing someone is the easy bit - getting rid of the body is the PITA. Time and again they don't know what to do them until the neighbours start complaining about the funny smell, or flush bits down the bog and block the drains up yadda yadda. :D
 
srichards said:
A fireman? They're the only people I can think of that practice picking unconscious people up. I'm sure a dead body would be a right pain to move around. Having an accomplice is risky and they'd have to be bumped off too so you'd have to get rid of their body aswell.
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And just about anyone that has served in HM Forces.
 
That's cos many of us watch tv murder mysteries!

I always thought the neatest solution was to dump a body in a graveyard with an already dug grave or squeeze them into another coffin to be cremated. Sure that was in some silent witness or frost or something. Takes more planning than hoofing them onto a grass verge though.
 
Pigs are good - they can scoff the lot including the largest bones. :D

LOL. There is a morbid fascination about it all - no denying it.
 
My father had a small canning retort (think: huge pressure cooker) and joked about sticking his ex-wife in it and feeding the "spam" to pigs. Or foxhounds, to spread the remains over several square miles...

I've been looking up what scant details are available ont'Net about the murder of a teenage girl several years ago. Her step-father was convicted on the forensic evidence in his car, but locals were convinced that her mother did it: she had a toy-boy, who'd been seen canoodling with the girl, while her ex (who took the rap) was said to still be besotted with the girl's mother, and did her bidding (the disposal of the body). During the fortnight before the body was found, the mother was hyper and her boyfriend sullen. The mother then got herself into a women's refuge. I'd use the smiley for a baseball bat, but that's what the neighbours thought she'd used on the girl.
 
Surely wet concrete has to be the easiest and safest assuming some somewhere is being poured or has been poured recently.

I'll bet a few gangland members met their end this way.

Also, dry lime is good.
 
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rizla01 said:
Surely wet concrete has to be the easiest and safest assuming some somewhere is being poured or has been poured recently.

I'll bet a few gangland members met their end this way.

Also, dry lime is good.
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It's said Jimmy Hoffa is in a motorway stancheon. Probably true... he's never shown up. :D
 
Lasagne said:
I'm getting scared. Too many people on this site know the ins and outs of what to do with the body when you've killed someone :suspect:
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And on the Jeremy Vine show today they were talking about an alternative to cremation as in.....liquifying a dead body by chemical means :eek:
 
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