Jinbei Discovery DC-600 review

But that couldn't possibly be true; vis:

someone said:
As for Lencarta products being the same as the Jinbei ones, that's just a lie mistake by Elemental. I've said this before and I'll say it again, check with Jinbei.
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Well, this is the net, all sorts of things get posted on it.

The Jinbei Discovery is a good product but it is different to the Lencarta Safari Li-on, which Jinbei makes to Lencarta's spec.

The flash duration is shorter, the recycling is faster, the charger is better and Lencarta supplies it with a hard carrycase that's far, far better than the metal-looking flight case supplied with the Jinbei one.
The heads themselves are exactly the same, and that goes for the ringflash head too.

Some time ago I conducted some detailed objective tests on various makes of flash head. I invited David Selby, who runs Lighting Rumours, to come to my studio and replicate my own tests. If he had done so then he would have seen and tested both the Discovery and the Li-on side by side and wouldn't have confused the two. He would also have seen various other makes such as Profoto, Elinchrom, Bowens and Hensel, and could have tested those too.

Unfortunately my invitation was at short notice and David couldn't make it, which wasn't his fault.

I posted my own comment on his lighting rumours page yesterday, pointing out that they are not the same. I will ask David to delete his statement that the Discovery can be bought from Lencarta, as it isn't correct, but it's up to him whether he does so or not.

Claims that Lencarta are the same as Jinbei have been made before. You can either believe the people making these statements, or you can believe me, or you can ask Jinbei.
 
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Mahoneyd187 said:
Hi Garry,

How is this achieved in the Lencarta Safari Li-on? As in which components are upgraded?

Thanks

Dan
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Basically the capacitors. I've been trying to explain it all on Lighting Rumours but it all seems to be a bit of a waste of effort, just people on there making comments about things they don't understand, ignoring facts and not reading what other people have to say:'(
And the site still says that Lencarta sells the Discovery, which is a shame.

You'll see for yourself, next month, that the Lencarta Safari Li-on performance is better than the claimed performance of the Jinbei Discovery, hopefully that will put all this confusion to rest.
 
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I'm looking forward to testing the Li-on, particularly as I am soon to be in the very market for which it is intended. If you provide me with the technical specifications of the improved components I have no issue with helping you clarify the differences with the Jinbei product
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
I'm looking forward to testing the Li-on, particularly as I am soon to be in the very market for which it is intended. If you provide me with the technical specifications of the improved components I have no issue with helping you clarify the differences with the Jinbei product
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Hi Danny,

A lot of work has gone into improving the spec and it isn't info that I'm able to into details about, for commercial reasons. But you will be able to see the differences for yourself:)
 
Garry Edwards said:
Hi Danny,

A lot of work has gone into improving the spec and it isn't info that I'm able to into details about, for commercial reasons. But you will be able to see the differences for yourself:)
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No problem at all Garry I can completely understand that, and either way, the proof is in the results.

A quick question relating to both the jinbei and lencarta li-on heads, I'm aware they aren't recommended with 150cm octas and so on, so what's the advisable max size modifier?

And will it work ok with the fresnel you sell? I can't see any reason why not, but worth asking.

Thanks

Dan
 
I'm just wondering and may regret asking this, but how are you able to demonstrate the shorter flash duration (though arguably not a benefit if you want to use the high speed sync of the PW flex system) or the 0.6 of a second faster recycle time?
 
treeman said:
I'm just wondering and may regret asking this, but how are you able to demonstrate the shorter flash duration (though arguably not a benefit if you want to use the high speed sync of the PW flex system) or the 0.6 of a second faster recycle time?
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With medium format leaf shutter lenses :)
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
With medium format leaf shutter lenses :)
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Now who do we know who has one of those.....? :)

BTW if the capacitors are visibly different then can't we solve this once and for all by finding somebody with a Jinbei and a screwdriver.......?
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
No problem at all Garry I can completely understand that, and either way, the proof is in the results.

A quick question relating to both the jinbei and lencarta li-on heads, I'm aware they aren't recommended with 150cm octas and so on, so what's the advisable max size modifier?

And will it work ok with the fresnel you sell? I can't see any reason why not, but worth asking.

Thanks

Dan
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Difficult...
The flash heads themselves are exactly as supplied with the Discovery. Personally I'd like to get them made of metal, and this may be possible in the future if the sales justify the cost, but meanwhile we just have to accept that large, heavy modifiers may be a strain too much. Outdoors in the wind, where we expect them to be used, it's even more difficult to judge how much weight (and size) is too much...

Personally I've had the unit for quite a few months now and have used it outdoors with both a 70cm beauty dish and with a 150cm octa softbox, with no problems whatever - but I use weights and guy ropes to stop the stand from being blown over and also support the weight of the modifier itself with an extra stand. Personally I feel that that's all that's needed, but I speak for myself not for Lencarta on this and, wearing my Lencarta hat, my advice has to be to not use any large or heavy accessories.

The Fresnel spot is another good question. My instincts tell me that it will work but I haven't tested it yet. Can't test it now because my studio is in use, will do it when I can and report back.
I'm just wondering and may regret asking this, but how are you able to demonstrate the shorter flash duration (though arguably not a benefit if you want to use the high speed sync of the PW flex system) or the 0.6 of a second faster recycle time?
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I just use a standard oscilloscope to measure flash duration. Theoretically there are simpler methods, such as the gate method of a between lens shutter or a flash meter, but the oscilloscope is accurate and also shows the tail very nicely.

As I've explained elsewhere though, ultra-short flash duration arguably becomes little more than a marketing point with a flash designed specifically for outdoor use, where the biggest single problem is controlling the ambient light, which requires a faster shutter speed than we can actually achieve unless we use the high speed PW flex system, in which case we actually benefit from having a longer flash duration.

I'm sure though that if we want to use the portable flash system in the studio, shooting say dancers, then ultra-short flash duration would be a real benefit as opposed to a marketing point. It's actually very easy to achieve very short flash durations, but there are trade-offs.
 
JonathanRyan said:
Now who do we know who has one of those.....? :)

BTW if the capacitors are visibly different then can't we solve this once and for all by finding somebody with a Jinbei and a screwdriver.......?
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And how are you getting on with your new toy?

A screwdriver isn't going to quantify the differences in a meaningful way. What is wanted, if people are really that bothered, is a side by side test.
Some time ago I conducted some detailed objective tests on various makes of flash head. I invited David Selby, who runs Lighting Rumours, to come to my studio and replicate my own tests. If he had done so then he would have seen and tested both the Discovery and the Li-on side by side and wouldn't have confused the two. He would also have seen various other makes such as Profoto, Elinchrom, Bowens and Hensel, and could have tested those too.

Unfortunately my invitation was at short notice and David couldn't make it, which wasn't his fault.
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Garry Edwards said:
And how are you getting on with your new toy?
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It seems alright ;) Been trying it with a Westcott Apollo and they make a very nice combination. Must take some pics.....

Garry Edwards said:
A screwdriver isn't going to quantify the differences in a meaningful way. What is wanted, if people are really that bothered, is a side by side test.
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Not in any meaningful way. But if all Jinbeis have "type A" capacitors and Lencartas have "type B" and they look different then maybe people would start believing you. It's not proof that they are better - just that they are different.
 
Garry Edwards said:
Difficult...
The flash heads themselves are exactly as supplied with the Discovery. Personally I'd like to get them made of metal, and this may be possible in the future if the sales justify the cost, but meanwhile we just have to accept that large, heavy modifiers may be a strain too much. Outdoors in the wind, where we expect them to be used, it's even more difficult to judge how much weight (and size) is too much...

Personally I've had the unit for quite a few months now and have used it outdoors with both a 70cm beauty dish and with a 150cm octa softbox, with no problems whatever - but I use weights and guy ropes to stop the stand from being blown over and also support the weight of the modifier itself with an extra stand. Personally I feel that that's all that's needed, but I speak for myself not for Lencarta on this and, wearing my Lencarta hat, my advice has to be to not use any large or heavy accessories.

The Fresnel spot is another good question. My instincts tell me that it will work but I haven't tested it yet. Can't test it now because my studio is in use, will do it when I can and report back.
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Thanks for the info Garry, if you could let me know that'd be great
 
Mahoneyd187 said:
Both of us as far as I'm aware...lol, though mine only goes to 1/400 :'(
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Amateur ;)

Mahoneyd187 said:
Thanks for the info Garry, if you could let me know that'd be great
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I was thinking the other day....it might be cool to araldite a tripod screw thread to the bottom edge of my large beauty dish. Then I could screw a monopod in when I wanted to relieve some of the strain. If only we knew a company that could make stuff like that......
 
JonathanRyan said:
I was thinking the other day....it might be cool to araldite a tripod screw thread to the bottom edge of my large beauty dish. Then I could screw a monopod in when I wanted to relieve some of the strain. If only we knew a company that could make stuff like that......
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I know just the people :)
 
I do not advise opening a flash unit and looking at the capacitors. One slip, and you could end up dead
 
JonathanRyan said:
Amateur ;)



I was thinking the other day....it might be cool to araldite a tripod screw thread to the bottom edge of my large beauty dish. Then I could screw a monopod in when I wanted to relieve some of the strain. If only we knew a company that could make stuff like that......
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For the large octobox I would have thought it wouldn't have been that much of a problem to get a robust mount to attach to the speedring, so the modifier mounts on this and supports the weight of the head. For large softboxes when I want to use my smaller heads I use this method - couple of quick snaps below of speedring/flash head on stand.

aIMG_9905.jpg
aIMG_9906.jpg


Only down sides IMO is I have to have a flap open at the back of the softbox and it won't rotate - but I can use a huge softbox with a compact head!

Paul
 
Nice option. Kind of like tripod mounting the lens instead of the camera. Is that a special speed ring or a modification to a standard one?

I still want a screw thread on the beauty dish though - 2 stands have to be better than 1.
 
JonathanRyan said:
I still want a screw thread on the beauty dish though - 2 stands have to be better than 1.
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Unless I misunderstand you, surely if you need to move the beauty dish set up or just change the angle, moving two stands simultaneously has got to be a bit of a faff :shrug:

I like the speeding set up above, which is a bit like the adapter for the Quadra. It seems to be one of the draw backs the ultra portable lighting systems, not being able to mount big stuff safely. I'd have thought the manufacturers would have been able to spec them up a bit at little extra cost.
 
I'm imagining a tripod thread. So instead of putting a stand on the BD I'd be using a monopod. It doesn't need stability just a little support (that's even true on a "heavy" head - they sag a little).

Moving it should be OK (stand in one hand, pod in the other). Rotation is fine (push gently up and there should be enough flex to slide the monopod). Angle is fine - unsnap the lock on the monopod and then adjust the BD as normal then resnap it. Gravity will keep the foot on the floor.

In fact, the more I think about it.......
 
treeman said:
Unless I misunderstand you, surely if you need to move the beauty dish set up or just change the angle, moving two stands simultaneously has got to be a bit of a faff :shrug:

I like the speeding set up above, which is a bit like the adapter for the Quadra. It seems to be one of the draw backs the ultra portable lighting systems, not being able to mount big stuff safely. I'd have thought the manufacturers would have been able to spec them up a bit at little extra cost.
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Making them a lot tougher at the outset would cost virtually nothing - the problem is that most customers just want light weight and low cost, and most people don't think beyond using umbrellas and softboxes anyway...

I'm imagining a tripod thread. So instead of putting a stand on the BD I'd be using a monopod. It doesn't need stability just a little support (that's even true on a "heavy" head - they sag a little).

Moving it should be OK (stand in one hand, pod in the other). Rotation is fine (push gently up and there should be enough flex to slide the monopod). Angle is fine - unsnap the lock on the monopod and then adjust the BD as normal then resnap it. Gravity will keep the foot on the floor.
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Moving it would be no problem at all - after all, what are slaves for?:lol:
 
JonathanRyan said:
Nice option. Kind of like tripod mounting the lens instead of the camera. Is that a special speed ring or a modification to a standard one?

I still want a screw thread on the beauty dish though - 2 stands have to be better than 1.
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Standard ring from Calumet, though it won't take the usual speedring adaptors but Bowens and Lastolite branded ones will work.

Paul
 
Yup, most decent speedrings (the calumet ones do and are cheap) have got two tripod screws on them. Just screw it onto a bog standard speedlight umbrella adapter.

DmY8f.jpg
 
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Tasty! I never knew that! So with that speedring it appears you can quite easily use larger modifiers with something like a discovery? Providing you have a good enough quality umbrella adapter?
 
itsdavedotnet said:
Yup, most decent speedring adapters have got two tripod screws on them. Just screw it onto a bog standard speedlight umbrella adapter and bob's your uncle.
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Of the six different brands of speedring I've got only the 'Quick ring' in my picture has threaded sockets (both 1/4 and 3/8ths) and to use it with an Octobox, you would have to 'drill' them out :(

Paul
 
yup :) No weight on the head bracket whatsoever.


Of the six different brands of speedring I've got only the 'Quick ring' in my picture has threaded sockets (both 1/4 and 3/8ths) and to use it with an Octobox, you would have to 'drill' them out
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edited my post - calumet ones are where it's at :) One photographer I've worked with has a spigot glued into the large screw hole, just to stop the chance of any rotation.
 
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Interesting that, though I can mount a 5' octa straight onto my Profoto Acute heads without any worries whatsoever.
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yep, I don't do that myself, photo was just a demonstration. Useful on other lighter heads though.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
yup :) No weight on the head bracket whatsoever.




edited my post - calumet ones are where it's at :) One photographer I've worked with has a spigot glued into the large screw hole, just to stop the chance of any rotation.
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you got any calumet part numbers for the speedrings? i looked and couldn't find the one you've shown.

M.
 
itsdavedotnet said:
http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/calumet_quickring_speedring/rm6400

is the quickring. I haven't used one myself, look neat though.

pretty sure that this one has them too, call to double check: http://www.calumetphoto.co.uk/eng/product/calumet_universal_speedring/rd3100

either will need an adapter for your brand of lights.
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And be aware that these have use a smaller diameter 140mm adapter than say the 152mm ones sold by Lencarta (or used in their speedring) - Lastolite's are 138mm IIRC and are OK. Calumet of course will also sell these for Elinchrom and Bowens & others - don't know much about Bowens, is S2 the same mount as used on the Lencarta heads?

Paul
 
JonathanRyan said:
Seeing it's the thick end of a grand for a light I'd really hope so.
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No, they're free........as long as you buy the Acute B2 pack :naughty:

But seriously, the idea that few people want to stick big modifiers on the cheaper portable lights surprises me. The adaptor is one way around it, but as I said earleir, just build it in from the start, makes far more sense. I know some folk will say they're meant for outdoor use etc etc, but that doesn't preclude you from using big mods, and if you're like me, I cant afford mains and battery lights. My battery lights have to double up as studio lights too.
 
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