Jessops

I didn't realise, but according to one report PJ owns the retail internet company Expansys that sells.... wait for it.... cameras and camera equipment amongst other items:thinking:

Having a look at their prices on some stuff, they're quite expensive on most. However, a Nikon 55-200 is cheaper than the lowest price on Camerapricebuster.

Obviously I have no idea of his exact plans for Jessops as I can't read his mind...but it doesn't take a genius....:thinking:
 
beckyboy1 said:
In my opinion if you want the brand name, you honour the brand name and that means honouring the customers.
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The new owners of the name will only have to honour the vouchers if they received the money for them - which I'm sure they didn't.

Legally, the company or the receiver still owes for all of the vouchers and you could claim from them but the chance of getting anything is close to zero. Even if you did it would be no more than 5% of their face value.


Steve.
 
Wookee said:
Obviously I have no idea of his exact plans for Jessops as I can't read his mind...but it doesn't take a genius....:thinking:
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Well, he obviously didn't buy it just for a laugh. He must have plans to use it to trade in some way.


Steve.
 
Steve Smith said:
The new owners of the name will only have to honour the vouchers if they received the money for them - which I'm sure they didn't.

Legally, the company or the receiver still owes for all of the vouchers and you could claim from them but the chance of getting anything is close to zero. Even if you did it would be no more than 5% of their face value.


Steve.
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I thought the admins decide what you would get (if you were succesful!) and it could be any amount.
 
Tom, sadly creditors that low in the list of priorities (as far as the adminitrator is concerned) would be lucky to see anything at all. By the time they were to get as low down the list as each individual voucher holder - and they're all seperate creditors -there'll be very little left in the proverbial pot. And let's face it, I bet there's only a tiny minority who will even bother attempting to chase for any recompense.
 
beckyboy1 said:
Its not just vouchers that people lost out on.
I ordered a filter holder and adaptor ring 2 days before the administration for home delivery from my local jessops which I will never see. I certainly won't be purchasing from the jessops brand again regardless of who owns it if vouchers and orders are not fulfilled or refunded.
In my opinion if you want the brand name, you honour the brand name and that means honouring the customers.
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That is disgusting! Taking money for things when they know they won't be providing the product you bloody bought! I would be incandescent with rage and I am sure you are exasperated.
 
Doodlydoo said:
That is disgusting! Taking money for things when they know they won't be providing the product you bloody bought! I would be incandescent with rage and I am sure you are exasperated.
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What do you suggest staff should have done in the run up to the Admins coming in?
 
viv1969 said:
Tom, sadly creditors that low in the list of priorities (as far as the adminitrator is concerned) would be lucky to see anything at all. By the time they were to get as low down the list as each individual voucher holder - and they're all seperate creditors -there'll be very little left in the proverbial pot. And let's face it, I bet there's only a tiny minority who will even bother attempting to chase for any recompense.
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I understand how it works, I was just trying to fathom how SS claimed it would be 5%.
 
viv1969 said:
What do you suggest staff should have done in the run up to the Admins coming in?
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I don't blame the staff for doing their job. I blame Jessops for taking people's money and not giving them their orders in return!
 
Doodlydoo said:
I don't blame the staff for doing their job. I blame Jessops for taking people's money and not giving them their orders in return!
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You're just blaming "a name". It makes no sense.
 
I feel fortunate in that I can see beyond the Jessops name.

All that has happened is someone has bought the right to paint a Jessops logo on the front if their warehouse. Nothing about the new company is the same as the Jessops many people know and hate.

I will definitely be interested in what becomes of this.
 
viv1969 said:
You're just blaming "a name". It makes no sense.
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Right, i'm not an idiot. I'm not blaming a collection of letters, I would have thought it was obvious but clearly not! I mean the people who ran the company.
 
tiler65 said:
I thought the admins decide what you would get (if you were succesful!) and it could be any amount.
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Yes, they do. And it will be almost nothing. Voucher owners well down on the list of people who are going to get paid.


Steve.
 
Doodlydoo said:
Right, i'm not an idiot. I'm not blaming a collection of letters, I would have thought it was obvious but clearly not! I mean the people who ran the company.
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So in your opinion, when should they have stopped selling things like vouchers? The day before the administrator came in? 2? A week? Bear in mind that right up until it bacame official, I'm sure they were trying to work out options with industry creditors, I'm sure they would have been trying to arrange additional investment / borrowing, so if they stopped selling, people would ask why. Places like this would begin to question what was going on, and before you know it, any resolutions, even potential ones, would be leaving the table like rats off a ship.

Buying things like vouchers is a risk. It always has been. People who are not willing to take such a risk should give the gift of cash, which can then be used wherever you like when the bottom product hits the fan.
 
Yep, never understood vouchers and this will steer more people towards cash gifts now.
 
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viv1969 said:
So in your opinion, when should they have stopped selling things like vouchers? The day before the administrator came in? 2? A week? Bear in mind that right up until it bacame official, I'm sure they were trying to work out options with industry creditors, I'm sure they would have been trying to arrange additional investment / borrowing, so if they stopped selling, people would ask why. Places like this would begin to question what was going on, and before you know it, any resolutions, even potential ones, would be leaving the table like rats off a ship.

Buying things like vouchers is a risk. It always has been. People who are not willing to take such a risk should give the gift of cash, which can then be used wherever you like when the bottom product hits the fan.
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I'll agree with you on that, I never understand why people give vouchers, it's like a controlling gift.

Anyway, I don't work for Jessops so I don't know how their sh!t went down but there will have been a point when they realised they were struggling to pay their debts and maybe they should have gone under earlier, i don't know and its not my job to know. I can still be "Disgusted of Tonbridge Wells" though! :lol:
 
Doodlydoo said:
Nice to meet you, arbiter of moral dilemmas! I disagree. It may be good business sense for them not to, but morally, in my opinion it stinks.
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The brand, stock and all assets have been bought from the administrator - not the debts - there is no moral obligation to accept the gift vouchers. That's like expecting the buyer of a repossessed house from a bank, to be morally obliged to honour all debts and promises of the previous owners!
 
Doodlydoo said:
I'll agree with you on that, I never understand why people give vouchers, it's like a controlling gift.

Anyway, I don't work for Jessops so I don't know how their sh!t went down but there will have been a point when they realised they were struggling to pay their debts and maybe they should have gone under earlier, i don't know and its not my job to know. I can still be "Disgusted of Tonbridge Wells" though! :lol:
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:lol: Of course you can...Everyone has that option (well, those from Tonbridge Wells, of course :lol: )
 
tiler65 said:
Nonsense.

I wouldn't have a problem buying from Jessops.
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Handing over money for goods in a shop maybe but surely no-one in their right mind would buy online with a debit card or pay cash for gift vouchers again.

Alan
 
Alanem said:
Handing over money for goods in a shop maybe but surely no-one in their right mind would buy online with a debit card or pay cash for gift vouchers again.

Alan
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Who in thier right mind buys vouchers of any kind anyway????
 
In answer to an earlier post Yes PJ has a major stake in Expansys. They have been around for many years and my first use of the was for extras for my HP IPAQ 500 mini computer.

They always seemed to have lots of (very expensive) accessories and rarely advertised their wares. In those days EBay was still building.

The word in the business news websites is that PJ bought the brand name and associated trade marks only. Much of the stock that Jessops had in store and warehouse had not been paid for and went back to Canon etc. TBH Expansys will probably use the Jessops brand initially to trade as a 'known' source nd adjunct to Expansys.

I think the issue of the gift cards/certificates is one, as already stated her, as original Jessops Debt which PJ has not bought. Hilco were interested and may have done for Jessops what they did for HMV and bought the debt. This process is why HMV vouchers are being honoured now.

I doubt very much that after the administrators costs are paid and the major banks etc get first crack at cash assets, then the shop owners with outstanding lease/rent debt etc etc that there will be anything left for the gift card/certs to receive anything. PJ and Expansys did not buy the debt. No company would have to be honest. There was little value in the skeleton of the Jessops retail company. Wonder how much PJ paid for the brand name.

LCE for me now but I live in the hopethat the small retailers make something of a comeback. We still have LCE and ACE in Bath...

H
 
Alanem said:
Handing over money for goods in a shop maybe but surely no-one in their right mind would buy online with a debit card or pay cash for gift vouchers again.

Alan
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Still wouldn't have a problem getting vouchers, it is a different company, even if jessops had been saved on the high street if some one I knew had wanted them I would have got them for them.

viv1969 said:
Who in thier right mind buys vouchers of any kind anyway????
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If people ask for vouchers them I get them.

ernesto said:
People with a lack of imagination I would guess.
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That's a very big brush you are using, people do ask for vouchers, and why not, some people if they get cash will fritter it away instead of spending it on what they had asked for it for. Vouchers have to be used in the store that you intended to buy from originally. Kids got iTunes vouchers from their uncle at Xmas, was a thought out present not one with no imagination, I also normally get some amazon vouchers at Xmas or my birthday, and I would much either get these yfsn something I didn't want.
 
Alanem said:
Handing over money for goods in a shop maybe but surely no-one in their right mind would buy online with a debit card or pay cash for gift vouchers again.

Alan
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Just about anyone with a bank account can get a debit card. That's not necessarily true for credit cards.

I'm not all that keen on gift vouchers personally, but we occaisonally bought them as presents when we lived in South Africa. These were valid for a whole mall, not a particular shop. I don't know if you can get this type of voucher in the UK. The John Lewis and Marks and Spencer ones - to name a couple - should be quite safe too.
 
Hugh Jarse said:
In answer to an earlier post Yes PJ has a major stake in Expansys. They have been around for many years and my first use of the was for extras for my HP IPAQ 500 mini computer.

They always seemed to have lots of (very expensive) accessories and rarely advertised their wares. In those days EBay was still building.

The word in the business news websites is that PJ bought the brand name and associated trade marks only. Much of the stock that Jessops had in store and warehouse had not been paid for and went back to Canon etc. TBH Expansys will probably use the Jessops brand initially to trade as a 'known' source nd adjunct to Expansys.

I think the issue of the gift cards/certificates is one, as already stated her, as original Jessops Debt which PJ has not bought. Hilco were interested and may have done for Jessops what they did for HMV and bought the debt. This process is why HMV vouchers are being honoured now.

I doubt very much that after the administrators costs are paid and the major banks etc get first crack at cash assets, then the shop owners with outstanding lease/rent debt etc etc that there will be anything left for the gift card/certs to receive anything. PJ and Expansys did not buy the debt. No company would have to be honest. There was little value in the skeleton of the Jessops retail company. Wonder how much PJ paid for the brand name.

LCE for me now but I live in the hopethat the small retailers make something of a comeback. We still have LCE and ACE in Bath...

H
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Landlords do not rank above voucher holders, they rank equally with them as both are classed as unsecured creditors.
 
Doodlydoo said:
I don't blame the staff for doing their job. I blame Jessops for taking people's money and not giving them their orders in return!
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The problem is that administration happens very quickly. It was reported that Jessops management was in discussions with lenders / backers about how the company would be supported, but when they were unable to reach an agreement, management were left with no option but to put the company into administration
 
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mortimerhill said:
Landlords do not rank above voucher holders, they rank equally with them as both are classed as unsecured creditors.
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Yes and no.

It depends on who actually owns the freehold of the premises. If, say as part of a financial restructuring by the bank there is a lien on freehold premises taken by said bank through its own property division in a asset for cash arrangement/swap then they become de facto the landlords/owners of the property. This can happen where a business starts by leveraging freehold property against a business mortgage or wholly owned premises in order to start or restructure a cash starved business. Not the most sensible strategy but it has happened. I know of a bank branch in London that had used a bailiff to seize 4 very expensive cars against an outstanding debt. They were locked in an underground car park below the branch. Banks don't like to lose despite what many think.

Then, like Jessops, there is a "secured" debt owed to the bank (HSBC I heard) and its subsidiaries. In other words they get first dibbins at identified assets (eg Cash in Hand + fully owned stock). Canon purpotedly gave Jessops a credit line through stock but not cash. Such stock has gone back to its owners (not Jessops).

Whatever is left over as cash or other assets that can be sold for cash will be for unsecured creditors.

Given the parlous state that Jessops cash flow was in it will be a surprise if there is anything left for the unsecured creditors.

H
 
MartynK said:
The John Lewis and Marks and Spencer ones [vouchers] - to name a couple - should be quite safe too.
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If there is one thing people should learn from this is that no voucher is 100% safe.
Either buy an actual thing and put the thought into it or just give cash if you don't know what to get someone.
 
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