It's about time I upgraded my tripod ball head

V8burble

V8burble

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I find I'm doing a lot more indoor architectural commercial work these days with the D3 and either 14-24mm (which after today I'm glad to say I wont have to keep renting anymore :)) or 24-70mm so a reasonable and relatively unbalanced load. I need a head that is rock solid without any drop/sag once set as I often do exposures over 2 seconds and bracket exposures too. It must also perform equally well with the camera in portrait orientation.

I guess budget is upto about £250

I'm after people's real life experiences here rather than just specs from the manufacturers.

Thanks :thumbs:
 
V8burble said:
I need a head that is rock solid without any drop/sag once set as I often do exposures over 2 seconds and bracket exposures too.
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Don't they all do that?

I have a ball head just because it's compact but really prefer my geared. Pan and tilt could be an option too.
 
Been using a Markins M10 for about 6 years now.

Markins M10

Found it to be very solid and reliable, even for longer exposures. Easily holds a 5DII and 70-200 without a collar. It's also good when rotating the ball to portrait orientation, but if you're going to do that often, I'd recommend you get an L-plate. RRS make the best. Not cheap, but well worth the price.

RRS D3 L Plate
 
Interesting you should mention the RRS L plate Alan, that was going to be my next question... along with whether you really get anything extra from the likes of Kirk and Really Right Stuff?
 
AndyB1976 said:
Yeah I agree about the geared head, I have the Manfrotto 410 :thumbs:
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Rather than rely on a ball head to get accurate vertical positioning I set my tripod a little high and then adjust it down. It has a smooth action and solid stop and I find this gets more accurate positioning than I can get using the ball head for positioning.
 
Yes, I've seriously considered a geared 3-way, in fact I'd almost convinced myself to get one. However I still think that the simplicity of a well friction matched ball head is more my pref.

I can see another walk around the corner to Calumet may well be required :lol:
 
The thing with the geared head is it's a big fat lump, ball heads are much more compact.

If you do find a ball head that really doesn't drop with a reasonable camera and lens mounted, let everyone know.
 
For really precise positioning, I doubt you could beat an Arca Swiss cube. I use an RRS BH-55 and it is rock solid. Both however are beyond your stated budget. Perhaps you should save some more as these things are going to last a lifetime and over that time period, the extra cost may be worth it.

Regards
 
Cheap ball heads are usually rubbish. Good quality ones, generally into three figures, can be excellent, though price and brand is not always a guarantee.

There is an excellent (:D) review of 12 high end heads in the current edition of Advanced Photographer magazine.
 
woof woof said:
If you do find a ball head that really doesn't drop with a reasonable camera and lens mounted, let everyone know.
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There are lots out there, they are not cheap, I have an Arca Swiss Z1 and that stays put.

You could always get yourself into a WH Smiths and have a read of Hoppy's excellent review in the current Advanced Photographer magazine :D
 
I have a ball head, I think it was mid range Giottos but I can't remember how much it cost. I'm not really a fan but I wanted something compact. If spending ooodles on a ball head why not just get a geared?

I suppose a ball head could be faster, and it'll always be more compact but personally I think I'd rather pay big £ for a geared than a ball. In fact I did.
 
woof woof said:
If spending ooodles on a ball head why not just get a geared?

I suppose a ball head could be faster, and it'll always be more compact but personally I think I'd rather pay big £ for a geared than a ball. In fact I did.
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You answered your own question there :thumbs:
 
Yes but spending big money on a ball head rather than a geared needs thought IMVHO. There is a difference is speed of use and size, if it matters that much. And of course a geared is always going to be more accurate.
 
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LOL, I'll read Richard's review of course ;)

My budget is only a rough one... as with most things, for the right bit of kit budgets can always be somewhat elastic.

In my case bulk really doesn't matter, I drive to the client with an estate car full of equipment and trolley to where I'm going so weight and size is of little importance. See, now I'm leaning back towards a geared 3-way :bang:

Also I'm generally setting up for 6 or 7 shots so speed isn't really too important either.

Who said I wanted a ball head anyway :whistling:
 
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One drawback with a geared head is that in cold weather I'm always hurting my fingers when the knobs stick and then suddenly give.
 
woof woof said:
Yes but spending big money on a ball head rather than a geared needs thought IMVHO. There is a difference is speed of use and size, if it matters that much. And of course a geared is always going to be more accurate.
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I agree

Your original question which I responded to was "if anyone knows a ball head that doesn't drop".
 
I should have added "and doesn't cost more than a good geared and probably weigh more too." :D

How much for one that doesn't drop?

I've only ever had three heads and thinking about it the first, a pan and tilt, was proabably the best for me.
 
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V8burble said:
LOL, I'll read Richard's review of course ;)

My budget is only a rough one... as with most things, for the right bit of kit budgets can always be somewhat elastic.

In my case bulk really doesn't matter, I drive to the client with an estate car full of equipment and trolley to where I'm going so weight and size is of little importance. See, now I'm leaning back towards a geared 3-way :bang:

Also I'm generally setting up for 6 or 7 shots so speed isn't really too important either.

Who said I wanted a ball head anyway :whistling:
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If weight is not an issue, Manfrotto's geared 410 is really good, but if money was no object, I'd head straight for the Arca D4, unfortunately too expensive to include in the magazine review. You might also like the Induro 5-way PHQ1 - lovely thing, in the review. Then again, Martyn might not be a million miles out ;)

There were also some very pleasant surprises in the review, and you don't have to spend a huge amount to get an excellent ball head.

Edit: Alan, droop and the ball shifting position on lock-down was the thing I looked at most closely, though if you have the camera at a bit of an angle, most of the droop is usually between the camera and the rubberised/cork plate.
 
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woof woof said:
I should have added "and doesn't cost more than a good geared and probably weigh more too." :D

How much for one that doesn't drop?
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The Arca Swiss is around £250, they have a newish model out the P0 which is £190, but I have not tried one, although it looks an interesting design.

There are quite a few out there that are based upon the Arca Swiss design.
 
HoppyUK said:
Edit: Alan, droop and the ball shifting position on lock-down was the thing I looked at most closely, though if you have the camera at a bit of an angle, most of the droop is usually between the camera and the rubberised/cork plate.
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Yeah, it's annoying more than it's an issue for me, to be honest.

For me tripods and heads are something to use grudgingly. I don't really enjoy the experience.
 
Thank you everyone for lots of GREAT input so far, it's much appreciated.
Looks like I've got a magazine to read and some heads to play with :clap:
 
Martyn... said:
The Arca Swiss is around £250, they have a newish model out the P0 which is £190, but I have not tried one, although it looks an interesting design.

There are quite a few out there that are based upon the Arca Swiss design.
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Arca Z1 is £312. Arca P0 gets a lot of good rep, and is one head I really wanted to include in the review but couldn't get hold of one in time. The basic P0 head needs a clamp adding to the price though, which bumps it up, and the upsidedown design means you can't pan in vertical format without either an extra panning base or a L-bracket. TBH, every keen tripod user should get an L-bracket anyway - best tripod accessory I ever bought, just fit and forget - and enjoy :thumbs:

Edit: sorry, I could bore for England on this topic :D Just got to say that I hate these new lever-release Arca Swiss clamps. In attempting to solve a non-existant problem with the excellent standard screw-lock design, they only make it worse and add a few more disadvanatges along the way. Seriously, don't get one of those without trying first, and they cost more :thumbsdown:
 
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HoppyUK said:
Arca Z1 is £312. Arca P0 gets a lot of good rep, and is one head I really wanted to include in the review but couldn't get hold of one in time. The basic P0 head needs a clamp adding to the price though, which bumps it up, and the upsidedown design means you can't pan in vertical format without either an extra panning base or a L-bracket. TBH, every keen tripod user should get an L-bracket anyway - best tripod accessory I ever bought, just fit and forget - and enjoy :thumbs:
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Shows how long it is since I looked at the prices.

Shame about the P0 not being available for review, I have had one on my Robert White wish list for 12 months now, something else always crops up :D
 
V8burble said:
LOL, I'll read Richard's review of course ;)

My budget is only a rough one... as with most things, for the right bit of kit budgets can always be somewhat elastic.

In my case bulk really doesn't matter, I drive to the client with an estate car full of equipment and trolley to where I'm going so weight and size is of little importance. See, now I'm leaning back towards a geared 3-way :bang:

Also I'm generally setting up for 6 or 7 shots so speed isn't really too important either.

Who said I wanted a ball head anyway :whistling:
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Another thing you may not be aware of with the geared head is there is a 'collar' or 'secondary knob' on the inner side the main knobs on all of the axis. I guess you could say it acts like a clutch and disengages the gearing so you can shift each axis quite unhindered for speed and then use the 'gearing' for the precise alignment.
 
AndyB1976 said:
Another thing you may not be aware of with the geared head is there is a 'collar' or 'secondary knob' on the inner side the main knobs on all of the axis. I guess you could say it acts like a clutch and disengages the gearing so you can shift each axis quite unhindered for speed and then use the 'gearing' for the precise alignment.
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Andy, yes I was aware but thanks for the info anyway and useful for the thread of course :thumbs:

I'm leaning towards the Manfrotto 405/410 at the moment and I've talked to my local Calumet so will be having a play to check out the difference in adjustment feel etc. Of course the 405 is much bigger, but that might be a bonus if I delve away from DSLR too.
 
V8burble said:
Andy, yes I was aware but thanks for the info anyway and useful for the thread of course :thumbs:

I'm leaning towards the Manfrotto 405/410 at the moment and I've talked to my local Calumet so will be having a play to check out the difference in adjustment feel etc. Of course the 405 is much bigger, but that might be a bonus if I delve away from DSLR too.
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Just make sure you don't go near that Arca Swiss D4. The beauty of the design and sublime engineering may just seduce a man with a taste for fine things, like a burbling V8.* Manfrottos are made like tractors by comparison, big lumpy castings compared to precison CNC machined aircraft grade aluminium :love:

*Can't stand those gas-guzzlers myself :D
 
The 405/410 geared heads from Manfrotto make the whole positioning thing so simple, and (to me) are far easier to use to position the camera precisely than any ball head.
 
Any top make tripod that claims to hold a load of 6kg+ will do the job really. I just got a giotto mid range one delivered today. Man, it's bigger than I expected :D I really should learn to take the time to read through spec sheets.

One thing is for sure, it's that sturdy I think it would hold me! And I'm a damn load heavier than 6kg :D
 
Cagey75 said:
Any top make tripod that claims to hold a load of 6kg+ will do the job really. I just got a giotto mid range one delivered today. Man, it's bigger than I expected :D I really should learn to take the time to read through spec sheets.

One thing is for sure, it's that sturdy I think it would hold me! And I'm a damn load heavier than 6kg :D
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Some of those Giottos heads are good, and very well priced, but I don't think the load ratings, for either heads or tripods, are worth the paper they're written on. Nobody can tell you what they actually mean anyway.

6Kg is a low (honest?) rating for a decent head, but a massive amount in terms of camera equipment - something like a pro spec DSLR and 600/4 :eek: If you try and hang that off the side of a ball head in vertical format, the tripod will literally fall over. Arca Z1 is rated at 59Kg, getting on for ten stone. What use is that information?

How well the head works in practise is what matters, probably with no more than a couple of kilos on top. Can you adjust it smoothly and accurately, does it lock-down positively and without shifting? That's what makes the difference. I've recently tested a £300* head, rated at 12Kg, which was very poor at that (not included in the magazine reviews BTW) and a couple of others that were seriously good at a third of the cost.

*Edit: correction, just checked the current price of that head and it's now £400 :eek:
 
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