Italian student tells of arrest while filming for fun

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Ambermile said:
And you think terrorists don't film targets then?
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if they are remoteley intelligent terrorists they probably use google earth - or just go and have a look.

As for the 'alleged' terrorists caught filming London underground maps - for the life of me I can't work out why the didn't just have a quick look at the TFL website?

of the terrorist attcks in recent years - there is nothing to point to them filming targets before hand
 
Ambermile said:
Thi is a very thin line people, do you agree the terrorist threat is a real threat? This question is, I think, at the heart of this issue, and depending on your answer you place yourself in different camps.

To me yes, the threat is real and current, so no, getting stopped if I do something that right now I know damned well is likely to incur at least a few questions if spotted is something I accept.

If, on the other hand, you think the threat is a non-starter, then apart from the obvious point of asking you to explain why to any number of bereaved and injured people, please don't argue with those of us that see it as a real threat and want to do something about it.
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Oh I think we're all capable of being concerned about anyone injured and being concerned about restrictions on our liberty. They're not mutually exclusive and that's a bankrupt argument.

Now - on the basis that all of the 7/7 bombers had genuine UK id, and no criminal records, just how useful is this? After all, we already know that less than 1% of s44 stops result in any form of charge (which may or may not be related to terror).
 
Ambermile said:
If, on the other hand, you think the threat is a non-starter, then apart from the obvious point of asking you to explain why to any number of bereaved and injured people, please don't argue with those of us that see it as a real threat and want to do something about it.
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What about the innocent people being killed in the war against terror. We have around a 100 right now, but the casualties of those we are fighting are not counted any longer, as the numebr became too high.

For the last time do people believe a terrorist would not carry out this operation covertly, not drawing attention to himself?
 
Simmotino said:
No one has said it is! Sadly, too many people round here are blinkered by the alleged nanny state in which we are all forced to live and that all law enforcement officers are Stalinist dictators just itching to get the thumb screws on people.

If a few more realised that they had a job to do and that, with a little bit of cooperation and good humour, everyone would get on a lot easier and we wouldn't spend endless days going round in circles over the same points again and again.

Let them do their job, help them when you are asked to, and get on withy our day. It's not rocket science!

I'm out.
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I can completely relate to your point, and agree with lots of it. I just think though, when it comes down to the actual black and white print, in the rule book, the police should have to stick to it. Of course, most people won't cause a problem, but if being cocky and / or withholding your name, and photographing without questioning is your right, I think we need to ensure we keep it as a right.

All these vidoes lately are giving both the police AND photographers a bad name (IMO), however, if the final outcome is a police force which respects US for what we are, and lets us go about our stuff without question, then it's ultimately good that the videos are emerging.

I don't understand why there are so few of you who can see both sides of the argument - its wrong to be a cocky git, whether illigal or not. The police handling and ignoring of rules is also wrong.

Gary.
 
Aside from all the discussions here of the rights and wrongs - my opinion is that she got what she deserved... If she'd been open up front, and stated what she was doing and why, they'd have given her a slap on the wrist and sent her on her way...
 
Arkady said:
And you know this for a fact? Or are you just repeating what the papers are telling you? Because they always tell it exactly how it happened...lol
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That cuts both ways Rob, the media are fanning flames from both sides. And quite frankly, people should be able to see that.
 
cymruchris said:
Aside from all the discussions here of the rights and wrongs - my opinion is that she got what she deserved... If she'd been open up front, and stated what she was doing and why, they'd have given her a slap on the wrist and sent her on her way...
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Hang on - she was asked what she was doing. She told them it was for fun and a college project.

He didn't believe her, and that's being cocky now?
 
Ambermile said:
Thi is a very thin line people, do you agree the terrorist threat is a real threat? This question is, I think, at the heart of this issue, and depending on your answer you place yourself in different camps.

To me yes, the threat is real and current, so no, getting stopped if I do something that right now I know damned well is likely to incur at least a few questions if spotted is something I accept.

If, on the other hand, you think the threat is a non-starter, then apart from the obvious point of asking you to explain why to any number of bereaved and injured people, please don't argue with those of us that see it as a real threat and want to do something about it.

I realise that yes, this may well be seen as drawing a line in the sand but that looks like the way it already is... the elected government is ultimately responsible here, and we all have a choice there.
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I'm not going to get drawn into any comments regarding polictics,

I'll never forget those bereaved, injured or killed people - but if you allow society to change in such a way as our freedoms are removed in the name of keeping us safe then in my opinion the terrorists have won and we dishonour those people.
 
fracster said:
That cuts both ways Rob, the media are fanning flames from both sides. And quite frankly, people should be able to see that.
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Good - because without an intrusive and investigative media we have far less idea what's going on.

And of course they are - this nonsense may well impact them.
 
cymruchris said:
Aside from all the discussions here of the rights and wrongs - my opinion is that she got what she deserved... If she'd been open up front, and stated what she was doing and why, they'd have given her a slap on the wrist and sent her on her way...
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I am genuinely interested in your reasoning of she got what she deserves?
 
Here we go again, people who have never been stopped and who never will under Section 44, banging on about “Police State Briton” if you want to see a Police State in action, hop on a flight to Chine and start taking photos in Tiananmen Square, then start shouting the odds to the local plot and see what happens to you Human Rights. Some people on here don’t have a clue what’s happening outside there own front door. This country is at war, people want to kill you, kill your husbands and wives, kill your mums and dads, your sisters and brother and National Security has to be paramount. Please wake up and smell the coffee and live in the real world.

The woman in the Vid was an idiot. She could have avoided all the hassle but no, she wanted to push the issue. Politeness costs nothing.
 
ding76uk said:
What about the innocent people being killed in the war against terror. We have around a 100 right now, but the casualties of those we are fighting are not counted any longer, as the numebr became too high.

For the last time do people believe a terrorist would not carry out this operation covertly, not drawing attention to himself?
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Oh true, very true. But dressing up as a student doing an Arts project could be seen as "Covert" no?

It's a roundabout arguement that we are not going to stop - since it strikes right at the heart of many long-held beliefs and rights. However, ultimately, there is a threat - not just a perceived threat - and while that situation remains then some people are going to be delayed somewhat. Clearly, from the press surrounding this issue, those that get belligerent make things worse (and make the papers!) and those that don't, don't.

This will rage on and on - and it is as pointless as it is relentlessly boring. Accept that those with an opposed opinion on this will not change their minds and live with it.

I'm out too.

Arthur
 
Kemble3 said:
Here we go again, people who have never been stopped and who never will under Section 44, banging on about “Police State Briton” if you want to see a Police State in action, hop on a flight to Chine and start taking photos in Tiananmen Square, then start shouting the odds to the local plot and see what happens to you Human Rights. Some people on here don’t have a clue what’s happening outside there own front door. This country is at war, people want to kill you, kill your husbands and wives, kill your mums and dads, your sisters and brother and National Security has to be paramount. Please wake up and smell the coffee and live in the real world.

The woman in the Vid was an idiot. She could have avoided all the hassle but no, she wanted to push the issue. Politeness costs nothing.
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This country has been under the threat of terror for every one of the 40 years I've been alive. Yet we've managed to get by pretty well. My father served in the forces for 22 years and fought in the Falklands. He was in NI when Bloody Sunday kicked off. You don't need to tell us about the real world thanks.

If we're using China as a barometer of what's acceptable then we really are in trouble.
 
Simmotino said:
Let them do their job
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Yes. But they need to realise that their job is as servants to the public and their duties involve maintaining the peace and protecting people and property from unlawful activities. Their job is not to 'keep the peasants in their place' and stop them rising up against their oppressors in government.

Most officers realise this. It's just a very small minority who don't who we get to hear about in these news reports.


Steve.
 
Radiohead said:
Good - because without an intrusive and investigative media we have far less idea what's going on.

And of course they are - this nonsense may well impact them.
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Agree, though why people get themselves into such a state about it is somewhat baffling.
 
Kemble3 said:
Here we go again, people who have never been stopped and who never will under Section 44, banging on about “Police State Briton” if you want to see a Police State in action, hop on a flight to Chine and start taking photos in Tiananmen Square, then start shouting the odds to the local plot and see what happens to you Human Rights. Some people on here don’t have a clue what’s happening outside there own front door. This country is at war, people want to kill you, kill your husbands and wives, kill your mums and dads, your sisters and brother and National Security has to be paramount. Please wake up and smell the coffee and live in the real world.

The woman in the Vid was an idiot. She could have avoided all the hassle but no, she wanted to push the issue. Politeness costs nothing.
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national security is important - but if you take that above everything else, then its not worth a bean and you end up somewhere like China very quickly.

Politeness does cost nothing - but she was polite, you can be polite and say 'no', its not difficult.
 
Kemble3 said:
This country is at war, people want to kill you, kill your husbands and wives, kill your mums and dads, your sisters and brother and National Security has to be paramount. Please wake up and smell the coffee and live in the real world.
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If that were really the case, how many deaths have been caused IN THIS COUNTRY BY WAR? How many terrorist attacks? Oh wait none, and if you really believe that is because the police are stopping everything you really need to think again.

The threat although real, is not as huge as people have you belive. Do you think every muslim is a terrorist or potential terrorist in this country?
 
Kemble,

The point here being is that all of this is NOT illegal and the police and NOT doing what they are supposed to be doing.

In China or wherever, this stuff is illegal, no questions.

I have no problem with things being made illegal, its simply that folk are getting harassment for things they shouldn't get hassle for under the sweeping auspices of "anti-terrorism"
 
Kemble3 said:
This country is at war, people want to kill you, kill your husbands and wives, kill your mums and dads, your sisters and brother and National Security has to be paramount.
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I'm not at war. I don't want to kill anyone and I don't think anyone wants to kill me.

Kemble3 said:
The woman in the Vid was an idiot. She could have avoided all the hassle but no, she wanted to push the issue. Politeness costs nothing.
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This bit however, could be true.


Steve.
 
desantnik said:
Kemble,

The point here being is that all of this is NOT illegal and the police and NOT doing what they are supposed to be doing.

In China or wherever, this stuff is illegal, no questions.

I have no problem with things being made illegal, its simply that folk are getting harassment for things they shouldn't get hassle for under the sweeping auspices of "anti-terrorism"
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... and you keep this up and it *will* be made illegal, make no mistake about it. Get real, right now they are playing nice.
 
You, I think, have had it too easy too long.
 
Ambermile said:
You, I think, have had it too easy too long.
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Thank you - that's probably the funniest thing I've read for months.

My God - you actively want us to become like China. You want to see people suppressed for questioning authority. I'd remind you that millions died to stop exactly that sort of thing.

Your comment is staggering.
 
Ambermile said:
... and you keep this up and it *will* be made illegal, make no mistake about it. Get real, right now they are playing nice.
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I think you will find thats highly unlikely.... "Bankrupt Britain" tells our foreign tourists that they can't photograph our cities?

Dream on...
 
Radiohead said:
Thank you - that's probably the funniest thing I've read for months.

My God - you actively want us to become like China. You want to see people suppressed for questioning authority. I'd remind you that millions died to stop exactly that sort of thing.

Your comment is staggering.
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No, quite the opposite, but if you keep on insisting that you are doing nothing wrong *knowing full well* there is a strong likelyhood of getting stopped and then getting arsey when it happens... if you do that, then we may find ourselves further down that road. And it will be on your back not mine.

This is also an explanation of "that statement" :D
 
Kemble3 said:
This country is at war, people want to kill you, kill your husbands and wives, kill your mums and dads, your sisters and brother and National Security has to be paramount. Please wake up and smell the coffee and live in the real world.
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And yet as far as I'm aware nobody stopped photographing the London Eye has actually turned out to be a terrorist.

I've been stopped, not searched, for photographing signs at Baker Street. Any and all 'information' collected would have been more easily available at the TfL website.
 
Kemble3 said:
... Some people on here don’t have a clue what’s happening outside there own front door. This country is at war, people want to kill you, kill your husbands and wives, kill your mums and dads, your sisters and brother and National Security has to be paramount. Please wake up and smell the coffee and live in the real world.
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I see the terrorists have achieved there aims as far as you are concerned then

Kemble3 said:
The woman in the Vid was an idiot. She could have avoided all the hassle but no, she wanted to push the issue. Politeness costs nothing.
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I saw only one "idiot" in that video and it wasn't the woman
 
desantnik said:
I think you will find thats highly unlikely.... "Bankrupt Britain" tells our foreign tourists that they can't photograph our cities?

Dream on...
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Wait a minute, you appear to have missed even the title of this thread, let alone the point of it.
 
Ambermile said:
No, quite the opposite, but if you keep on insisting that you are doing nothing wrong *knowing full well* there is a strong likelyhood of getting stopped and then getting arsey when it happens... if you do that, then we may find ourselves further down that road. And it will be on your back not mine.

This is also an explanation of "that statement" :D
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And by your logic booze would have been banned years ago. Have you seen what polics have to put up with sometimes at chucking out time?
 
They could have sent her to the nearest underground and shot her, she got off lightly..........:p
 
... and the government want a minimum price for booze... only the revenue from tax stops that happening. Same with cigarettes - but neither will instantly take your leg off. Or directly kill your kids.
 
Ambermile said:
No, quite the opposite, but if you keep on insisting that you are doing nothing wrong *knowing full well* there is a strong likelyhood of getting stopped and then getting arsey when it happens... if you do that, then we may find ourselves further down that road. And it will be on your back not mine.

This is also an explanation of "that statement" :D
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On the contrary - it's standing up for our rights that prevents it. Don't make the mistake of confusing standing up for rights with being arsey.
 
Im going to say what i think


The police seem to have a real paranoia about people filming buildings and photographers who "they think" look suspicious. Do they really think that stopping or trying to stop everyone from fiming "iconic" buildings will really stop some idiot from blowing them up?

are the terrosrist really going to say aggggghhhhh dam it we cant film it so therefore we cant blow it up"

The police are COMPLETELY reacting badly to all this and in my opinion have recently tried to justify this NONSENSE ABOUT FILMING ICONIC BUILDINGS by releasing a statement that claims they actually found and arrested "terrorists" who had footage on their mobiles of buildings they suspected they were going to blow up.........what happened to them...they let them go and deported them some terrorsits hey and some excuse of a story by the police if they think that story is justifiably an excuse to put out as to why they are stopping people from filming iconic buildings

the police are a joke or atleast there excuses and recent actions are and good on those people who are putting themselves in these situations to deliberatly provoke the police and "plastic police" to if we let them get away with stopping us by just being polite and by doing everything they ask us then that would be a crushing blow to our freedom and rights...remember that word RIGHTS
 
Ambermile said:
No, quite the opposite, but if you keep on insisting that you are doing nothing wrong *knowing full well* there is a strong likelyhood of getting stopped and then getting arsey when it happens... if you do that, then we may find ourselves further down that road. And it will be on your back not mine.

This is also an explanation of "that statement" :D
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I don't think Guy has ever advocated being 'arsey'. I think the reason we are insisting we are doing nothing wrong is simple - we're not. It will be on your back if you find ourselves on the road to which you refer simply because youi allowed yourself to be led down it
 
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