Is your equipment your priority?

Nifkin said:
So where do you stand on this, AliB? I have noticed that you often pop up in the regular Canon vs Nikon debates,
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And if you notice anything at all from those posts it should be that I have used both professionally in the last six months and there are certain reasons why (for me) I made a certain choice. If that is relevant to the question being asked then I will answer it. No other reason.

I don't actually have a brand loyalty since I shoot with Nikon, Mamiya, Leica and Hasselblad and for three years used Canon too.
 
In the week when I have little time I'll browse the forum. This could be for looking for crit myself, seeing what others have to offer, seeing what the banter is in this sub-section and occasionally slipping to equipment. I tend to look at other sources for equipment issues, but will come here for pricing and opinions. I'm spending far too much than I should on gear lately so I'm going to try and tone it down for a few weeks - I know what I want now so that's the battle done.

That's just during the week. At the weekends, I'm already outside with the 40D. :thumbs:
 
I wish I had enough money to make Equipment my priority, given that my most recent purchases have been and Olympus Trip and an OM10 for about £7 each I'd certainly say equipment isn't my priority!
 
I find the whole subject of cameras and related gear totally and mind numbingly boring these days. So for me the equipment is way down on the list of importance.

If I'm working and it does the job, it's great. If I'm shooting for fun, I'll gravitate towards a style that suits the tools at hand.

All that said, I've been very gear centered before and I do totally understand that lust for new kit and how it worm it's way to the front of our thoughts.
 
You can only view so many photographs of other people's kids before reaching overload, which is probably why I spend most of my time in TP and Equipment.
 
It's easier to talk about equipment than it is photographs. Equipment is more tangible, functional and can be acquired (relatively) easily. Being able to discuss a picture in a contructive, understandable way, that doesn't drift into pretentious nonsense, or unhelpful sniping is not particularly easy.

Talking about images, and in particular offering a constructive critique that adds value rather than just 'I don't like it becasue it's HDR and it makes my eyes bleed' is not something that everyone can do, which is possibly why judging camera club competitions can be a bit of a poison chalice!
 
Just look at my welding glass idea, says it all really. I like to get great pictures with lesser gear as it make me happy when it out guns the "All the gear no idea" brigade. :D I have to own up to always wanting better gear though :lol:
 
AliB said:
I don't know what it is about equipment but I've noticed on logging on that the number of people inhabiting the many and varied forums (fora?) on TP has changed in the last year.

In days of old I'd log on and the proportion of people in the "talk photography" forum would roughly equal the number in the "equipment" forum with the rest of happy campers spread around the various "Oh look, an actual picture" forums.

This morning at 7am there were 14 hardy souls in TP and 20 in equipment with all the others attracting 3 or 4.

So, is photography about the end product for you? is it about taking an image and seeing what you can produce in PP? or is it about collecting the best gear you can? and is that then enough or do you try to get the best out of your shinies?
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Look at the vast majority of people's signatures on here and draw your own conclusion. I know what I think.
 
I'm newish to TP and to photgraphy in general and so when I look at other people's shots, I can only comment on the things I feel comfortable talking about, knowledge wise.
I would rather someone commented on one of my pics(not that I have posted any yet :p) with nice pic, rather than just look and move on.
I would also be happy to recieve technical critique, but I until I learn more myself, I am not in a position to comment on it really.
So without sounding inflamatory, as I really am not (I luvs it here ;) ) is my sort of commenting not welcome? :(
 
Equipment is NOT high on my list of priorities, but I am interested in watching where it is going and seeing how people react to what it offers.
 
Hmmm tricky problem... the equipment is a less touchy subject, well, unless you are like some who can't stand to see someone say a piece of equipment is better than another one... hmmm yes, ok.

So its safer to give advice about someone's next lens than it is to say "next time you might want to take that photo differently and try to find a model with less body hair"

I seem to remember a little while back the TP politburo disabled the "views" count on threads because it was annoying some people - 5000 views of my badly composed photo and nobody has written a post about it (probably because last week when they did you bit their head off despite the feedback being both detailed and accurate).

Or another perspective... the "pros" perhaps never post any photos because either there are copyright/publishing rights issues or perhaps they don't want their work "torn to pieces by amateurs"

Anyway, forum dynamics is an interesting thing. You get some interesting habbits showing up and some curious group dynamics. You can't shape a forum once its critical mass gets so big, it takes on a life of its own thats beyond control of the owners.
 
It's a lot easier to brag about what you own than what you shoot - that's my take on this.

Some people will take tech all day but barely take one good shot a year; others let their images do the talking without any concern for equipment... then there are the many people in between :)
 
Fascinating insight. Thank you so much to everyone who replied.

Hopefully we will all now grab that all important equipment and go out and make pictures!!

It's supposed to be a gorgeous weekend, hope everyone enjoys it and gets to take at least one pic they are proud of :)
 
awp said:
I agree with this completely. There are also a large number of people come asking for advice and then ignore good advice in favour of what they believed/wanted to hear in the first place. No point in giving advice sometimes when you know it's going to be ignored.

Sorry - having re-read the OP this doesn't really answer her question! I think a lot of people expect better equipment to produce better photographs - which of course it doesn't - might produce sharper but not better.

I don't really want for anything in equipment - I have what I need to do the job - it's the picture that counts for me.
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war starts here:cuckoo: so if eqipment dosnt matter why dont you shoot with 2xD50,s instead of 2x D3,s:shrug:
 
specialman said:
It's a lot easier to brag about what you own than what you shoot - that's my take on this.

Some people will take tech all day but barely take one good shot a year; others let their images do the talking without any concern for equipment... then there are the many people in between :)
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so so true !! All kit and no published shots rings true.
I could still earn a few ££ with a OM1 and 50mm1.8 . Just use to hate the delay in seeing the results !
 
I think a lot of people expect better equipment to produce better photographs - which of course it doesn't
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I'm producing much better photographs with my current camera than I did with my old compact p+s.
 
To me the photograph is the end product and that's important.

The equipment however (as well as the photographer) is what is used to generate the photograph so it makes sense to show an interest in it and learn as much as I can enabling me to make informed choices when it comes to using or buying kit.
 
Could not have put it better Phil. :)

That's exactly how I feel about it too. It's a tool for me but I do take an interest in the technology if I think it's going to allow me to do something that previously was outside the realms of possibility.

I do think that over the last few years there has been an over emphasis on sharpness. Don't get me wrong if the motion is supposed to be stopped then it should be, if a shot is supposed to be in focus, it should be. But I also think that because the high end kit has advanced in terms of image rendering that there has been a pull in that direction by some photographers. Personally I much prefer to see a well composed and well executed shot that may be a little soft at the outer edges than a razor sharp image that is poorly composed and lacking in any kind of interest.

So don't think that kit holds you back. I've seen some stunning images produced on polaroid and holgas. I've seen amazing fine art produced on a scanner!

Go out and make images, images you can feel. That's where the edge is. :)
 
Denyerec said:
Critique is meant to be critical. Constructive critique is an additional ;) Forums head this way for a couple of reasons.
1- Someone asks for critique. They get it, full fat, no corners cut. The thread dissolves into a defensive tribunal because the person asking for critique didn't really want it, they just wanted some ooohs and ahhhs. Two results. The person posting doesn't post another critique (Or does so in a 'what do you think, not looking for a hard crit' style) and the person who delivered the honest and most likely useful criticism is alienated and, after the initial bashing, can no longer be bothered to respond to such threads in the future as their insight is so clearly not valued)

2- It's the internet. The people on it are not outside taking photos, they are inside on the internet. This will yield a higher proportion of technical, kit-happy people to passionate photographers by default. You see it on every single internet forum out there. There is of course nothing wrong with being a kit-happy techhie (Am am one myself), just don't be surprised to see it take hold of a forum.

I've been burned too many times offering my opinion on people's photos, getting dragged into defensive debates or flat out being chided for my opinion being worthless (Hey, they asked for it...) so it's no wonder I'm hesitant to continue doing so. I don't believe I'm alone here either, which might well help explain the decline in people willing to articulate their opinions on non-technical matters.
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All sounding very familiar here too...:thumbs:
 
Nifkin said:
So where do you stand on this, AliB? I have noticed that you often pop up in the regular Canon vs Nikon debates, which (and with no offence to you), it has to be said, are amongst the most puerile of all threads in the Talk Equipment section?
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But ultimately quite funny, it has to be said - anyone who by now can't see that the C vs N 'battle' is supposed to be funny really needs to get out more...lol

Most of us who join in really don't care at all...
 
In the Forum Discussion section, I raised a poll, to try and gauge what is the most popular section, as I had a similar interest as your question.
http://www.talkphotography.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=220766

Unfortunately with this Forum Discussion section not been visted that often, only 41 votes have been cast.
However the Photo Critique, has so far just edgded it as the most popular section.
My own thoughts are that people spend more time reading through the equipment section, than say the photo critique section. The numbers can vary in the Landscape section very quickly. I have seen it jump from 5 viewers to over 20 and back down to about 5 again in the space of a few minutes.
Maybe if anyone can be bothered to visit my Poll, we could gauge a better opinion of what people are really interested in.
 
Denyerec said:
Critique is meant to be critical. Constructive critique is an additional ;) Forums head this way for a couple of reasons.

1- Someone asks for critique. They get it, full fat, no corners cut. The thread dissolves into a defensive tribunal because the person asking for critique didn't really want it, they just wanted some ooohs and ahhhs. Two results. The person posting doesn't post another critique (Or does so in a 'what do you think, not looking for a hard crit' style) and the person who delivered the honest and most likely useful criticism is alienated and, after the initial bashing, can no longer be bothered to respond to such threads in the future as their insight is so clearly not valued)
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I agree that the above is a good example of the way it can go sometimes, but it's certainly not the case always.

Now, no-one is above critique, anyone who thinks so needs a reality check.

I love receiving any form of critique and I've benefitted by listening to anyone and everyone's offerings over the years, but, it's highly unbalanced to dismiss that there are a lot of self proclaimed experts out there that can't shoot for toffee but feel compelled to meticulously deconstruct everyone else's work while displaying an inability to review their own.

There is a difference between critique and personal preferences and these 'critics' just don't get it.

'The subject should alway's look into the camera'.

'Never shoot a portrait with a wide angle'.

'Natural light is better than flash'.

'Tilt shots make people feel sick'

'If a photography does not resemble my perception of reality, its worthless carp'

Take everything on board but be aware that healthy, long breaks away from all the opinions/critiques is vital to the development of your own style.
 
dinorock said:
war starts here:cuckoo: so if eqipment dosnt matter why dont you shoot with 2xD50,s instead of 2x D3,s:shrug:
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LOL - ok you got me - I couldn't do the job as easily without the D3! It was the first piece of equipment to get me excited in a long long time.
 
For me it's simply that - having the 'right' equipment lets me get on with the photography without having to either worry about, or try to work around, failings in that equipment




Which is why it has to be Nikon of course :D

However 'puerile' a comment that is Nifkin ;)

DD
 
Kev M said:
Perhaps the mods should add phrases like "nice pic" and "great light" to the swear filter, forcing people to add some actual reasoning to their responses otherwise they just end up with **** *** and ***** *****.:shrug:;)
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I know that "nice pic" is not constructive criticism but if the responses to posting a photo contain one or two such responses it can help the OP to take the proper critique without feeling everyone thinks they are rubbish.

I have gained immensely from receiving honest critique, even when it tells me the photo is useless, especially when it tells me what I have done wrong and /or suggests ways I could do it better.

The other thing about "nice pic" is that anyone can say they like a picture, even if, like me, they dont always know why.

I realise I havent answered the OP's questionso far but see so many of these comments about critique versus"nice pic" that I thought I would give my humble opinion.

As for the equipment versus photo question, I think that many people, men especially, like to talk about the gadgets they have got. They are also happy to advise people on what to buy. Discussing equipment tends to be unemotional and non confrontational.Just my thoughts

Sue
 
To get a job done properly and quickly you need the correct tools, whether that's in working on a car, doing the gardening, or taking photo's. However I'm much more interested in techniques and examples than in kit, however being a boy, big boys toys do interest me :D

Interesting to see the camera strap thread is going well in Equipment.
 
I think once you've used a Professional camera or lenses, for whatever reason, it's pretty difficult to go 'backwards' and use so-called 'lesser' equipment...you become used to a certain level of quality - that's manufacturing quality - and that isn't there on lower-spec equipment more often than not.

Plus, if it's for work - why compromise?
 
Arkady said:
I think once you've used a Professional camera or lenses, for whatever reason, it's pretty difficult to go 'backwards' and use so-called 'lesser' equipment...you become used to a certain level of quality - that's manufacturing quality - and that isn't there on lower-spec equipment more often than not.

Plus, if it's for work - why compromise?
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Couldn't agree more.

I always annoys me, just a little bit, when I see people recommending substandard equipment for professional work, simply due to the fact that the people doing the recommending have never actually used higher quality or more robust bodies & lenses.

There are reasons some lenses cost well over £1K (and plenty costing 2 or 3 times that or more) and why you might need 3 or 4 of them at that price to replace your little £250 Sigma 28-300mm. ;)
 
John! "They" will burn you for suggesting that Sigma is not as good as OEM kit :D
 
desantnik said:
John! "They" will burn you for suggesting that Sigma is not as good as OEM kit :D
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I don't think thats what 'They' will brun you for, 'They' may however burn you for stating catagorically that all sigma products are garbage and shouldn't be touched as often seems to be the case.
 
You shouldnt say they are garbage or that they are garbage often seems to be the case? :D
 
a1ex2001 said:
I don't think thats what 'They' will brun you for, 'They' may however burn you for stating catagorically that all sigma products are garbage and shouldn't be touched as often seems to be the case.
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Where did I state categorically that all Sigma products are garbage? I merely stated Sigma in that specific lens example as the Tamron version is £339, and I didn't want people nitpicking about price. :)

If I considered all Sigma products to be garbage, why would I own the 10-20mm f/4-5.6 and not the Nikon 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 or the Nikon 12-24mm f/4 or the Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8?

Ok, let me rephrase...

There's a reason the Nikon 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 costs £181.99 and the 70-200mm f/2.8 VR costs £1627.99.

Better? :)
 
Kaouthia said:
Ok, let me rephrase...

There's a reason the Nikon 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 costs £181.99 and the 70-200mm f/2.8 VR costs £1627.99.
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Of course there is - but I expect savings from production volumes and the ability to market some perceived benefits weigh more highly than any difference in the images created from them ever would.
 
Kaouthia said:
Where did I state categorically that all Sigma products are garbage? I merely stated Sigma in that specific lens example as the Tamron version is £339, and I didn't want people nitpicking about price. :)

If I considered all Sigma products to be garbage, why would I own the 10-20mm f/4-5.6 and not the Nikon 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5 or the Nikon 12-24mm f/4 or the Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8?

Ok, let me rephrase...

There's a reason the Nikon 55-200mm f/4.5-5.6 costs £181.99 and the 70-200mm f/2.8 VR costs £1627.99.

Better? :)
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Calm down and put your toys back in the pram, I don't remember accusing any specific individuals of anything.
 
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