is this dishonest? I don't think so

[realspeed]

On another site I belong to a member stated that getting a product on Amazon prime then leaving prime was dishonest.
This led me to think of how many would not get a product if legally advertised by a company selling at a reduced price. Sometimes they sell to get rid of old stock at a cheaper price, according to this guys thoughts, as far as can make out, buying them is dishonest. Now I have no idea where he lives but I suspect in the USA as it is a USA site.
Personally if I see a bargain on a product I want I will buy it, even go as far as to hunt down the cheapest on the internet being legally sold. Who would not do the same?
So far I have managed to get a Nikon D810 cheaper on the “grey market” got a Tamron lens the same way. Even the table top camera dolly was advertised cheaper as was my Sony FDR-AX53 camcorder.
If companies mis advertise at a lower price than as this company did with the Sony then I see nothing dishonest in buying it. They realised their mistake and upped the price to match other retailers afterwards

 

[Steep]

Amazon Prime is rarely cheaper, if you see something you want/need and it is a bargain then go for it. If Amazon has a problem with the way you do it, they'll let you know.

 

[tijuana taxi]

You seem a bit obsessed with saving money, always talking about it, same as those people who cut hundreds of coupons out.

 

[andya700]

I don't see anything wrong with trying to save money.

 

[lindsay]

Sometimes "cheap" is a bargain, but sometimes it indicates poor quality. Obviously a new D810 from the grey market is no different to a UK High St one except for warranty issues, which are not actually a problem. But sometimes it can mean a copy of the real thing, a fake. Caveat Emptor.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

Mostly when I buy a product I compare the price and what ever is part of the deal, such as delivery and extra free warranty. and note the reputation of the sellers.
Today the web makes these sort of comparisons easy to make, and it would be foolish not to take advantage of what ever is the best deal.

I would expect to save at least 20% on a majority of such deals compared to most high street or main dealerships.
However it is sometimes these same large dealership who offer the best or matching deal. Which is why it is always worth while doing your homework.

What I find very surprising is that there are always a few sellers offering the same product at greatly inflated prices over the RRP.
it would seem they rely on people never comparing prices at all, and buying with out giving price a second thought.

There was a time when buying on the high street was the obvious and most convenient choice.
This is no longer the case, as you are far more likely to have less choice, and a greater risk of buying open box product.
In many cases you have to travel many miles to find stock at all. While sales people's product knowledge and standard of advice is either woefully inadequate. or driven solely by the need to make a maximum sale.

On line sales are booming for good reason, the sheer convenience of... Stock availability, Low prices, and usually next day deliveries, or free normal deliveries. and the protection and rights given by UK distance selling laws, which are far greater than those for in person sales.

"Cheap" does not come into the equation. What should be looked for is the best price, consistent with all else being equal, or at least taken into account when comparing deals.

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

On another site I belong to a member stated that getting a product on Amazon prime then leaving prime was dishonest.

Then he's got a strange view of the world.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I have just bought (a few minutes ago) some Bulk Bird food on line. And compared prices as usual. Comparison sites are rarely useful.
I usually find that I purchase from Twoots, who are consistently the cheapest and offer free delivery, but are not normally shown on such sites.
What is often sold elsewhere for circa £18 to £25 is sold by them nearer £15. a worthwhile saving on a commodity product.

 

[simon ess]

On another site I belong to a member stated that getting a product on Amazon prime then leaving prime was dishonest.

Wasn't it this thread on this site.

Free - amazon prime get out of free

one "trick I have learn't, if you want something quick and free delivery then use Amazom prime. Oh no that ties you into monthly payments you say!!!! Wrong as soon as you have placed the order then cancel prime membership. Bit of a job to find out how as it is tucked away but a bit of...

www.talkphotography.co.uk

 

[woof woof]

You seem a bit obsessed with saving money, always talking about it, same as those people who cut hundreds of coupons out.

Why not? There's nothing wrong with saving money or cutting coupons and I'm a bit surprised that you seem to think there is.

There's legal and moral questions over buying grey imports, but to go that way or not is a decision we have to make for ourselves.

 

[realspeed]

Unfortunately there are those who are willing to pay top price for goods and therefore keeping prices high.

 

[Sky]

Of course it's not dishonest - it's human nature. When we walk a path and then discover a rock in our way, we move around it. Only an idiot would move the rock.

 

[woof woof]

Unfortunately there are those who are willing to pay top price for goods and therefore keeping prices high.

I've seem pieces on TV on haggling but it's something I've never been comfortable doing. Maybe most British aren't. A former GF of mine used to haggle over anything and everything and she is a wealthy woman, not British though

 

[AndrewFlannigan]

Maybe most British aren't.

I was involved in many negotiations on corporate contracts, although often only as a technical advisor. At that level, I can assure you, the British are world class hagglers!

 

[woof woof]

Over contracts, yes, but usually not often when shopping though.

I'd haggle over the price of a car, I suppose we all would but the shows I've seen on TV take it to the level of haggling over a loaf of bread in a shop. I couldn't bring myself to do that and I cringed when that former GF of mine did things like that... but she'd also buy art at 50-100k euros a pop without haggling.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I've seem pieces on TV on haggling but it's something I've never been comfortable doing. Maybe most British aren't. A former GF of mine used to haggle over anything and everything and she is a wealthy woman, not British though

Haggling is really a different issue.
And is some thing all professional buyers do.. but they would call it making a deal not haggling.
I used to buy Litho printing paper and copier paper by the making. That is over ten Tonne lots at a time. Paper merchants were very interested in my business.
I started by going to tender for a years supply at fixed prices, and got some extremely good deals.

However I noticed that the merchants were all covering their backside against rising prices by adding in large margins.
I then Decided to buy on the spot market. That is buying offers at to days price, where you can take advantage of overstock and side runs. It was certainly more work for me.
But saved literally thousands of pounds over the course of the year. it only occasionally involved actual "haggling". That only happened when a merchant walked in the door with an "Offer"
However it did make Budgeting more difficult as price prediction a year in advance was near impossible. It also made stock control more difficult, as you could not afford to be out of stock, and over stock was equally embarrassing, not only because of cash flow, but you need a lot of space for an extra ten tonnes, or so, of palleted paper.

 

[tijuana taxi]

I don't see anything wrong with trying to save money.

Why not? There's nothing wrong with saving money or cutting coupons and I'm a bit surprised that you seem to think there is.

There's legal and moral questions over buying grey imports, but to go that way or not is a decision we have to make for ourselves.

He is just very boring going on about it all the time
This is the same person who regaled us with pictures of his mock Tudor mini mansion and showed off how much it was worth.
Then edited the post when others mocked his snobbery, recently we were told of how is going on a ten grand holiday.

Money mad show off, saving is fine, but do we really need to hear about it all the time.
Spare a thought for those who are not so fortunate and are struggling to pay the bills

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

He is just very boring going on about it all the time
This is the same person who regaled us with pictures of his mock Tudor mini mansion and showed off how much it was worth.
Then edited the post when others mocked his snobbery, recently we were told of how is going on a ten grand holiday.

Money mad show off, saving is fine, but do we really need to hear about it all the time.
Spare a thought for those who are not so fortunate and are struggling to pay the bills

The advantage of saving money and being careful, is that you get to have it to spend when you need it.

Some of us are in the position to have "enough" in our later years, because we were careful when younger, not because we earned more than the average.
Others are Extremely wealthy despite spending like no tomorrow, It all depends on individual circumstances and priorities, and a fair bit of luck.
Our lot in life is largely self managed from an early age.

 

[andya700]

Over contracts, yes, but usually not often when shopping though.

I'd haggle over the price of a car, I suppose we all would but the shows I've seen on TV take it to the level of haggling over a loaf of bread in a shop. I couldn't bring myself to do that and I cringed when that former GF of mine did things like that... but she'd also buy art at 50-100k euros a pop without haggling.

My Missus is from Iran and I always let her do the haggling, she is a master at it. We have saved so much money on hotel rooms, where we just turn up without booking. Marketplaces are great for a bit of a haggle. But, as you say, it infuriates me when people try it in shops, where everything is clearly priced. I witnessed an African guy haggling with a Turkish butcher in our local "International" shop and I thought it was going to come to blows.

 

[hashcake]

On another site I belong to a member stated that getting a product on Amazon prime then leaving prime was dishonest.

I have done this several times for my sister when Amazon have offered a free trial with prime.
I've also done it for myself in the past but I've been paying for prime for the last few years.
Amazon know there are people who will do this and they know there are people who forget to cancel prime.

 

[Mr Bump]

Why not? There's nothing wrong with saving money or cutting coupons and I'm a bit surprised that you seem to think there is.

There's legal and moral questions over buying grey imports, but to go that way or not is a decision we have to make for ourselves.

I 100% agree I am as tight as a ducks rectum with money and if it is legal and above board of course. I buy nice wine/champagne from majestics and they used to do a £10 off new customer which was just a new email address so i would make one up on my virgin media console a 5 minute job. order collect and just delete the email, must have done that 20 times. Every time i want something specific on the web i hunt it down for voucher codes anything for some cash off. what i don't do is GREY MARKET thats fraud and mainly tax evasion.

 

[LCPete]

I 100% agree I am as tight as a ducks rectum with money and if it is legal and above board of course. I buy nice wine/champagne from majestics and they used to do a £10 off new customer which was just a new email address so i would make one up on my virgin media console a 5 minute job. order collect and just delete the email, must have done that 20 times. Every time i want something specific on the web i hunt it down for voucher codes anything for some cash off. what i don't do is GREY MARKET thats fraud and mainly tax evasion.

Don’t want to start an argument but what you’re doing is fraud, grey import isn’t illegal
But you’re just trying to wind us up I believe

 

[Sky]

Don’t want to start an argument but what you’re doing is fraud, grey import isn’t illegal

Indeed. Grey imports are neither illegal or fraud. It is just a way of getting around manufacturer's price fixing.

If you don't pay customs duty and VAT on your grey imports, then that's a different argument altogether . . .

 

[Mr Bump]

Don’t want to start an argument but what you’re doing is fraud, grey import isn’t illegal
But you’re just trying to wind us up I believe

nope not trying to wind you up at all, i firmly believe anyone that knowingly imports grey and doesnt check the VAT status commits fraud, always have done.

 

[TCR4x4]

nope not trying to wind you up at all, i firmly believe anyone that knowingly imports grey and doesnt check the VAT status commits fraud, always have done.

But making false email addresses to get £10 off consistently is fine? Righto. Double standards much?

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

nope not trying to wind you up at all, i firmly believe anyone that knowingly imports grey and doesnt check the VAT status commits fraud, always have done.

When we buy goods from any store we have no idea if they have paid vat or not.
We are left to believe that they have done so. However many organisations are prosecuted for vat fraud every year. Customers are never implicated. It is down to the seller to pay the vat man.

However if you have a vat account and you do not receive a correct and valid vat invoice you will never be able to claim the input vat back.

Buying grey is exactly the same... You are simply buying from a retailer that is not part of the makers network of authorised retailers in this country, however they might be authorised elsewhere. Or simply buyers of bulk bankrupt stock. Either way you have no reason to suppose that they are not paying vat.

 

[LCPete]

nope not trying to wind you up at all, i firmly believe anyone that knowingly imports grey and doesnt check the VAT status commits fraud, always have done.

Ahh I see, I do understand your point of view but I can only purchase from a reputable company like HDEW or Panamoz and believe that they do operate within UK law

 

[Dave *]

When we buy goods from any store we have no idea if they have paid vat or not.
We are left to believe that they have done so.

I would think that if you asked people in the UK if UK VAT was included in an item bought from an online store in Hong Kong the majority would say no.

 

[tijuana taxi]

Ahh I see, I do understand your point of view but I can only purchase from a reputable company like HDEW or Panamoz and believe that they do operate within UK law

I disagree, but I don't suppose either of us know the truth and never will.

 

[Mr Bump]

But making false email addresses to get £10 off consistently is fine? Righto. Double standards much?

Its morally naughty i agree

 

[hashcake]

I would think that if you asked people in the UK if UK VAT was included in an item bought from an online store in Hong Kong the majority would say no.

I'm not to sure about that.
I've had to explain grey imports to a few people as they had never heard about and in some cases they've purchased from Ebay and the product was a grey import but they never knowingly knew that and didn't know VAT had not been added.

 

[hashcake]

When we buy goods from any store we have no idea if they have paid vat or not.
We are left to believe that they have done so. However many organisations are prosecuted for vat fraud every year.

We know that most big retailers pay their VAT so lets rule them out.
Smaller bussinesses like cornershops selling dodgy fags then yes.
Hopefully it's a minority than the majority.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I would think that if you asked people in the UK if UK VAT was included in an item bought from an online store in Hong Kong the majority would say no.

Most people would not know that foreign companies can register to collect. UK vat.
Hong Kong Has been a Freeport since year dot. It is probably the most experienced and most respected large scale trader in the world. And polices it's trade very thoroughly, so as not to upset that trade.
I can not recall any of the companies that photographers buy grey goods from, ever being prosecuted for vat offences. Even though they have larger turnovers than any British camera retailer. I am sure that such a potential source of revenue would never be overlooked by HMRC. for more than a moment.

What most people would say, is neither evidence nor a statement of the law.

 

[TimHughes]

Depends on the product. For me it makes sense to shop around if I have time and no service is needed. Usually neither is true, so I’m happy to pay a premium that is fair for speed and service. So far this approach has paid off for me with advice, quick service when needed, replacement parts that are hard to source, loyalty offers and discounts and so on.

 

[realspeed]

He is just very boring going on about it all the time
This is the same person who regaled us with pictures of his mock Tudor mini mansion and showed off how much it was worth.
Then edited the post when others mocked his snobbery, recently we were told of how is going on a ten grand holiday.

Money mad show off, saving is fine, but do we really need to hear about it all the time.
Spare a thought for those who are not so fortunate and are struggling to pay the bills

I come across this a lot. You have got what I want attitude but not prepared to work damn hard for for 50 odd years to get it. Ususally the type of person who expects state handouts and always pleading poverty. I say to you "get off your arse and put in the hours like I did work wise anything up to 12 hours a day most days"

 

[tijuana taxi]

I come across this a lot. You have got what I want attitude but not prepared to work damn hard for for 50 odd years to get it. Ususally the type of person who expects state handouts and always pleading poverty. I say to you "get off your arse and put in the hours like I did work wise anything up to 12 hours a day most days"

*Staff edit* No Rich! just no!
I worked nigh on forty years from the age of 16, never had a state handout in my life.
Own my own modest house and retired at 55 to enjoy my pension and life in general.
Unlike you I didn't have to work hard manually for 12 hours a day, 7 days a week.

 

[Pound Coin]

Prime is a method by which Amazon ensure a low cost (to them) continuous income stream. It isn't about offering anything special or better to the customer.

 

[Pound Coin]

I come across this a lot. You have got what I want attitude but not prepared to work damn hard for for 50 odd years to get it. Ususally the type of person who expects state handouts and always pleading poverty. I say to you "get off your arse and put in the hours like I did work wise anything up to 12 hours a day most days"

This is going off-topic, but there are many, many people who wanted to work damn hard for their lives, but had that taken away by decisions taken by people higher up the food chain. Or by changes in the market (remember that we are supposed to be market driven - we are told it's brilliant and creates wealth - but in the process it is destroying the planet)

The Daily Mail and other right-wing rags are very good at talking to their congregation about scroungers and other ghastly people. I think you'll find it is a bit more complex than that.

 

[Brentor]

I have just bought (a few minutes ago) some Bulk Bird food on line. And compared prices as usual. Comparison sites are rarely useful.
I usually find that I purchase from Twoots, who are consistently the cheapest and offer free delivery, but are not normally shown on such sites.
What is often sold elsewhere for circa £18 to £25 is sold by them nearer £15. a worthwhile saving on a commodity product.

Apologies for the hi-jack. I have looked at their site, large range and good prices. Any recommendations for a basic feed?