Is there such a thing as art photography?
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Dave Canon
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Why would I buy a photograph as I can take my own. I have bought paintings as my painting is definitely a lower standard than my photography. However, I do produce some photographs in almost all genres including Fine Art. We have included Fine Art occasionally in our monthly club competition but this genre causes more confusion than most.
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Pavel M
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droj
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Because it's healthy to have other peoples' work on the wall as well as your own? Or do you like to live in a bubble?
Whilst generally true, that might also open the door to all kinds of whimsy ...
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Which one have you picked?
droj
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Whilst maybe straying from the theme slightly, I remember Cartier Bresson's remark in interview when asked his view of Picasso's work: "Hmmm - he was a good draughtsman.". Neat. I wonder how tongue in cheek it was?
And also Philip Jones Griffiths' attitude about (horror of) Parr's application to join Magnum.
How it all swirls round & round in the melting pot.
And also Philip Jones Griffiths' attitude about (horror of) Parr's application to join Magnum.
How it all swirls round & round in the melting pot.
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I can think of a few iconic photographs that I would describe as art. All on film, no digital. Maybe thats just an age thing.
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Pavel M
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Well, I picked the art definitions that stress the key role of creativity AND personal self-expression. I consider some kind of uniqueness or rarity and ability to surprise the viewer is essential for me to enjoy the work. Images that seem hard to distinguish from thousands of others that I have seen obviously do not surprise.
Here is an example from my work:
View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pavel_photophile2008/51266856421/in/dateposted/
Personal self-expression is important to me as well. Somebody photographing birds, say for a book on ornithology will surprise if we see some behaviour not expected by the viewer and the photos may be of better or worth quality (craft), but such photos do not reveal much about the persona of the photographer and other photographers with similar level of skill would in the same situation produce similar images. Here are 2 examples of my work, which reflects two aspects of my sense of humour:
View: https://www.flickr.com/photos/pavel_photophile2008/12120986205/in/album-72157715782080717/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pavel_photophile2008/36007639240/in/album-72157715782080717/
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Pavel M
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Frankly, I do not give a hoot what Cartier Bresson thought of Picasso. I see his work as intensely inspired and he brought about or participated in many important art revolutions in his life. No image has ever had as much impact on my as Guernica.
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Pavel M
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Which definition would you pick, Dave?
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Pavel M
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I had to laugh, Dave. I was a member of 3 clubs over time and I judged for great many in my area. Our clubs have something that is misnamed as "creative competition". In practice, it includes images that are massively modified in postprocessing. Some just apply a commercial filter to an image, for example. I would say that no more than about 5% of the entries are remotely creative.
myotis
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Depends on how tightly you want to define this.
I have books that I bought to get copies of so called "fine art" photographs, though I hate the term. I also hate looking at photographs online so I'm keen to get originals (or close to originals). But I bought the books for no other reason than to just enjoy the photographs. Which fits into the general definition of a fine art having no functional value.
Example of such books I have recently bought, which were also much cheaper than I'm used to:
Strath
Strath is the latest book published by Easel Press. It contains Scots versions, by Robert Crawford, of Song Dynasty (960 - 1279) Chinese poems paired with black and white duotone photographs by Norman McBeath.The title, Strath, is the Scots word for a low sided valley often with a river running...
beyondwords.co.uk
And
Fisherwomen - Ten O'Clock Books
Over the years, with some books I have paid a little extra to get an original print included with the book. But only a couple of times, as I'm usually struggling to afford the book, let alone the cost of the print. And for the couple of times I've done this, the reproduction in the book has been better quality than the included print. But the "little extra" was far less than you normally pay for a book+print combo.
If I had the money, I would definitely buy more photograph either for the wall, to own and look at an original print, or just to feel a connection with the photographer.
However, if you get high enough quality reproduction, a lot of the feel you get with an original print comes through in a book. And as I also generally like small prints, photographs in a well reproduced book often feels like the "right way to view them. There are some photographer who make hand made books of their photographs, which would be nice to have, but way outside my budget.
There is also a lot of small scale low cost books and zines now being produced by photographers and photographic galleries/publisher of photographs. Maybe not so much "fine art" but more documentary and conceptual photography, but still a way for photographers to earn some money outside the normal commercial routes.
An example I recently bought is
It's not what people would call fine art, as it has a lot of text documenting life in a Highland Glen, but she is a photography graduate and it's a way she is earning a bit of money while still still making photographs.
But I like the idea of photography as a financially accessible art, and as a photographer I appreciate the effort that goes into making a good photograph so pleased to spend the money when I can afford it.
I would also buy paintings, but frankly, the ones I can afford, I've never wanted, and the ones I wanted I could never afford.
Some people seem to do very well out of selling commercial "fine art" even if their particular style isn't something I would be interested in buying.
e.g
Paul Reiffer - Moments That Last A Lifetime | Iconic Photography + Amazing Destinations
Delivering iconic, bespoke images for award-winning brands, trailblazing explorers, and interior designers seeking exceptional artwork for luxurious spaces.
www.paulreiffer.com
JMFA - Jason Matias Fine Art
Discover unique and highly collection landscape and figure art by fine art photographer and lens-based artist, Jason Matias.
www.jasonmatias.com
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Ed Sutton
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I've already said that I'm in the anything an artist makes and calls art is art camp. Although I personally prefer calling anything I make 'work', because when it comes to photographs I believe the context they are shown in determines whether they are art or not.
I've been making photos of flowers recently using the 'best' equipment I have available and as much care as I can muster.
This picture was taken with as little care as a snapshot using a compact camera.
Are either or both art?
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Theres a poem by Rudyard Kipling entitled, "The conundrum of the Workshops" that begins:
When the flush of a new-born sun fell first on Eden's green and gold,
Our father Adam sat under the Tree and scratched with a stick in the mould;
And the first rude sketch that the world had seen was joy to his mighty heart,
Till the Devil whispered behind the leaves, "It's pretty, but is it Art?"
When the flush of a new-born sun fell first on Eden's green and gold,
Our father Adam sat under the Tree and scratched with a stick in the mould;
And the first rude sketch that the world had seen was joy to his mighty heart,
Till the Devil whispered behind the leaves, "It's pretty, but is it Art?"
Ed Sutton
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Thanks for that. More money I can't spare spent.
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Pavel M
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It is not what we think, @dave. We look at things through our glasses. In my mind, technical excellence has little to do with art, although being technically excellent gives you more tools and more options to create it. Many famous artists were not known for their technical excellence and yet they gained respect of the artistic communities and eventually collectors. Of course some of the artists are technically impeccable (I am told). There are many modern photos that I see in galleries and that look like snappies to me and yet they appear on respected walls. More often than not, they are labeled as conceptual art. So what difference does it make if I like the work or not?I've already said that I'm in the anything an artist makes and calls art is art camp. Although I personally prefer calling anything I make 'work', because when it comes to photographs I believe the context they are shown in determines whether they are art or not.
I've been making photos of flowers recently using the 'best' equipment I have available and as much care as I can muster.
This picture was taken with as little care as a snapshot using a compact camera.
View attachment 323105
Are either or both art?
myotis
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SorryThanks for that. More money I can't spare spent.
But it’s a very well produced book for the price (sponsored by Creative Scotland).
Glen Tilt has photographic memories for me.
When I was about 20, I took the train to Blair Atholl, and carried my camping gear, MPP 5x4, tripod and other photo kit, plus a Rollei 35, up the glen to a mountain top north of the glen I had enough food for a week and enough slides for, I think, two pictures a day. On the way up I hurt my foot, but was determined to carry on.
The pain got worse and worse, probably because my rucksack was of a weight I doubt I could even lift today. I spent two nights in the tent, assuming my foot would get better, it didn't. On the third day I realised I had to just struggle back to the station.
I took one photograph, a Kodachrome of a tiny spec in the distance that only I could tell was a Golden Eagle :-(
Ed Sutton
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In that case this whole thread as been a complete waste of time.
Ed Sutton
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That sounds like some fishing trips from my younger days!Sorry
But it’s a very well produced book for the price (sponsored by Creative Scotland).
Glen Tilt has photographic memories for me.
When I was about 20, I took the train to Blair Atholl, and carried my camping gear, MPP 5x4, tripod and other photo kit, plus a Rollei 35, up the glen to a mountain top north of the glen I had enough food for a week and enough slides for, I think, two pictures a day. On the way up I hurt my foot, but was determined to carry on.
The pain got worse and worse, probably because my rucksack was of a weight I doubt I could even lift today. I spent two nights in the tent, assuming my foot would get better, it didn't. On the third day I realised I had to just struggle back to the station.
I took one photograph, a Kodachrome of a tiny spec in the distance that only I could tell was a Golden Eagle :-(
Now my fishing rucksack, lighter than it was, makes my hip hurt. .
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Pavel M
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I am guessing that you do not like my work. That is perfectly OK with me. I saw your work and I am not seeking your approval. My work has been picked sometimes from thousands of entries for international exhibitions in art galleries in New York, London, Seoul, Montreal and Toronto and other places. The jurors were curators from respected galleries (including from Guggenheim), gallery owners, professional artists and university professors. I have been accepted as a member to a Manhattan art gallery. So by Duchamp's definition, I am an artist because I say so and because respected members of artistic community
say so . I am also an artist by my own definition (some of my images are creative and most reflect something about me and my views, thoughts, emotions, sense of aesthetics and humour etc.).If you think that your work is art, submit it to respected international juried exhibitions and see how you fare.
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I am guessing that you do not like my work. That is perfectly OK with me. I saw your work and I am not seeking your approval. My work has been picked sometimes from thousands of entries for international exhibitions in art galleries in New York, London, Seoul, Montreal and Toronto and other places. The jurors were curators from respected galleries (including from Guggenheim), gallery owners, professional artists and university professors. I have been accepted as a member to a Manhattan art gallery. So by Duchamp's definition, I am an artist because I say so and because respected members of artistic community
If you think that your work is art, submit it to respected international juried exhibitions and see how you fare.
Now were getting to it.
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munch
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I am guessing that you do not like my work. That is perfectly OK with me. I saw your work and I am not seeking your approval. My work has been picked sometimes from thousands of entries for international exhibitions in art galleries in New York, London, Seoul, Montreal and Toronto and other places. The jurors were curators from respected galleries (including from Guggenheim), gallery owners, professional artists and university professors. I have been accepted as a member to a Manhattan art gallery. So by Duchamp's definition, I am an artist because I say so and because respected members of artistic community
If you think that your work is art, submit it to respected international juried exhibitions and see how you fare.
So despite so many of you disputing my assertions about art, this post actually tends to prove my point.
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This fine art. If you ask me. Art for me has to satisfy the aesthetic and please the soul.
_IMG0793 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr
_IMG0793 by Stephen Taylor, on Flickr
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Pavel M
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Really beautiful. It pleases my soul too. Images like this and scenery like this was my aspiration when I started with photography. It doesn’t fit my definition of art, but who cares? The beauty is still there!!!!This fine art. If you ask me. Art for me has to satisfy the aesthetic and please the soul.
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Maybe a bit harsh, and in any case HCB:s remark may have been a compliment. Worth remembering too that HCB started as a painter and arguably ended as one.
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I'm curious to know where you found that, there are no flickr links and @Nod hasn't posted anything photographically here in a very very long time.
Or was it just a wild stab in the dark to put him down / discredit his opinion?
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This fine art. If you ask me. Art for me has to satisfy the aesthetic and please the soul.
I agree. I came back to make a similar point. I think people have banged on a lot about creativity in this thread. There’s evidently a lot of expertise among members here and a wide range of genres are represented but it seems to me it’s hard to separate expertise from creativity at least so far as, for example, the still life, wild life, portraiture and landscapes work is concerned. It may be less obvious in some but I suspect that may be ignorance on my part.
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Pavel M
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https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/media/users/nod.8506/ 12 pages of images. And here are yours https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/media/users/cobra.1870/
Is that a habit of admins here to read ill intentions into people they do not know? The ones I met until you made an excellent mature and responsible impression on me. They try to keep the flow of ideas going on subject of photography and keep the temperature down. Obviously these are not your strengths.
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Depends what you mean by expertise. Technically I would throw my hat in the ring on here, or anywhere. As an once industrial microfilm technician I have resolved images and processed them to a level of archival permanence that would make your hair curl.
Am I an above average 'photographer' on here? Nah, not even close.
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Pavel M
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The club I was with a few years ago rented a gallery and we all took part. It was fun. I had nothing to do with organizing and hanging etc. My total contribution was to bring some snacks for the opening nightHands up anybody on here who has got together with 3 others to rent a gallery to be exhibited?
Let us know if you've won a magazine competition as well.
Asking for a friend.
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I've been called a troll and agent provocateur on here and I've robustly defended myself.
Maybe they had a point because I sure as hell recognise you.
Dave Canon
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I do, but not others Photographs. My wife produces a lot of visual art which she likes to display. I am able to enter many competitions so my work get a good viewing. I do not live in a bubble as I explained I am in a large club so see photographs from others all the time.
Dave
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It's all subjective. Would I put "Blue Boy" or the "Mona Lisa " on my living room wall? Not a chance.
This one. Yes.
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Ah yes people often post mediocre image in "Media" for show and tell, rather than put them on their websites.
It was a genuine question that you seem unable / unwilling to answer..
People will always challenge a point of view. If you are looking for people to blow sunshine up your arse all the time, I suspect that
you will be disappointed
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