Is the camera I bought really "new" if it has had 5,500 shots taken on it?

I spoke to the shop today, and they are waiting for the person who served me to be back in tomorrow.

I don't plan to name the shop, and hopefully they will deal with this as the good will that I would expect for this.

IF they don't, be assured that I will advise who they are in case others want to be prepared if they purchase there too.

Thanks again, Simon
 
I once bought a brand new Honda motorcycle from a large main dealer (£7500).

Didn't realise until I'd had the bike 2 weeks (& put nearly 800 miles on it) that they had sold me a 'grey import' & not a full uk spec bike.

They wouldn't take it back - even though it wasn't what I believed it to be & thats the last time I spent any money in their shop..

Very interested in what they say - Curiously did you pay 'full retail price' ?
 
Yes, I paid full price for it, as advertised on their website, etc.

It has definitely not been priced as an ex-demo.

Like you, I'm very interested in what they say, and what they offer as options.

Thanks, Simon
 
I was lucky, my experience was the opposite of yours.
I found what turned out to be about the last "demonstrator" D700 in Currys/PC World, after a tip off from a TP member.
I rushed down to get it, and when I got it home I checked the shutter count (a bit easier on a Nikon it seems!) and was pleasantly surprised to find it was just under 100.
I would have been happy if it was 1000, as it was sold as a store demonstrator. Truth was, it stayed in a glass case, and rarely got demonstrated.
If I had bought a new one, I would expect it to be new, and any more than 100 or 200 clicks would go back.
Like a car, "delivery mileage" is acceptable, but no more.
 
Out of interest,what is the shutter rate to on these cameras?
 
Take it back.

Its not new, they have taken you for a ride.

Have it boxed up & place it on the counter - If you get problems contact Canon & explain to them what this shop is doing.
 
tiler65 said:
So if it is one instance, do you think Internet scaremongering is going to help?
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If I knew which shop it was, it wouldn't stop me shopping there.. it would just make me more aware and more likely to check the camera more carefully. What's wrong with that?

tiler65 said:
Also, Simon has had the camera for a week and the 'new' shutter count is 1892 ....... how many of those are Simon's clicks?
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He's already said how many are his. He's already proved the count is over 1800 with EOS count. If they were all his, why would he want to return it?

tiler65 said:
How many of you receive a brand new car with 'no miles' on the clock?
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This isn't a car... besides.. would you accept a new car with 1862 miles on it? I wouldn't. My last new camera's first shot was numbered _DSC00001.nef and the exif data shutter count was "1". That's a new camera. A camera with 1800 shots on it, is not a new camera.

tiler65 said:
If he wants an exchange, I am sure he will be entitled to it but there is no need to name and shame when there could be more than one reason for this occurrence.
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I disagree. If a certain store has a policy to restock returned goods.. and some do.. I know for a FACT that Comet did as I knew a regional manager there who told me in no uncertain terms that they just put returned goods back into stock as new then people need to know. If they know, they will be more likely to check right away.. possibly while still in the car park! (That's what I would do if Comet were still around and I bought a camera from there). If the goods are new, the store has nothing to worry about. If they're not, then it's their own fault for ripping people off.


It's not new, take it back. The longer you **** about, the weaker your position to argue your case.

Sale of Goods Act 1979. It's their to protect you. Use it.
 
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GHP said:
If I had bought a new one, I would expect it to be new, and any more than 100 or 200 clicks would go back.
Like a car, "delivery mileage" is acceptable, but no more.
Click to expand...

See I don't understand this ... I acknowledge that a car may have 'delivery mileage' purely due to maneuvering it to the sales point but that doesn't happen with a camera.
If I buy a 'new' camera I don't expect it to have any clicks ... if it has "100-200" clicks it is used!
 
gramps said:
See I don't understand this ... I acknowledge that a car may have 'delivery mileage' purely due to maneuvering it to the sales point but that doesn't happen with a camera.
If I buy a 'new' camera I don't expect it to have any clicks ... if it has "100-200" clicks it is used!
Click to expand...

Correct. I've never bought a new camera that hasn't said "1" for the shutter count on it's first image, and I've checked the last 3 times I bought a camera.
 
gramps said:
If I buy a 'new' camera I don't expect it to have any clicks ... if it has "100-200" clicks it is used!
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Agreed, new = unused. I would expect the camera to arrive sealed in its box, the battery should never have been inserted and the camera not even switched on let alone been used to take photos.

If its switched on and used for any reason, well, then it's used, and not new.
 
So with cynical Devil's Advocate hat on, I work in a high street shop and I sell a DSLR to a customer on the 1st of the month. 10 days later the customer returns to the shop and informs me that the camera was not new when bought as it now has 1800 clicks on it.

I then ask him to prove that he has not shot a wedding or some other event with it..................:suspect:
 
admirable said:
So with cynical Devil's Advocate hat on, I work in a high street shop and I sell a DSLR to a customer on the 1st of the month. 10 days later the customer returns to the shop and informs me that the camera was not new when bought as it now has 1800 clicks on it.

I then ask him to prove that he has not shot a wedding or some other event with it..................:suspect:
Click to expand...

If the user waits 10 days I would say he has diluted any claim he might have and can't really press for a replacement IMO.

I would think that anyone buying a camera that arrives in an unsealed box should be checking for things like shutter actuation on the same day they get the camera and taking up any issues within 24 hours.

As you say, when enough time has elapsed for that sort of doubt to creep in the buyers case weakens significantly.
 
Doesn't help the OP now, but to avoid any doubt insist on a camera in a box with the manufacturers seal intact.

Daresay a retailer could give all sorts of reasons it might be unsealed such as checking the contents or function, but that should be the responsibility of the buyer. I would always walk away from a shop that couldn't provide a sealed box, no problem buying used if the price reflects that condition.
 
New means sealed in a box and NOT with a shutter count like that. I would expect some discount on the price and Trading Standards would back you on that with any claim made. Many many years ago I purchased a new Canon T90 from a branch of Dixons and after getting it home the battery was completely flat. I took it back explaining the problem and I received money back and a bunch of free films for my inconvenience.
I'd also give the shop time to resolve the issue before flaming them on a public forum.
 
admirable said:
So with cynical Devil's Advocate hat on, I work in a high street shop and I sell a DSLR to a customer on the 1st of the month. 10 days later the customer returns to the shop and informs me that the camera was not new when bought as it now has 1800 clicks on it.

I then ask him to prove that he has not shot a wedding or some other event with it..................:suspect:
Click to expand...

and how many of your 'Average Joe' will know to look for a shutter count immediately after purchase?
Having had said camera he notices an odd file count so enquires of a forum and lo and behold finds out how to do a proper shutter count and the previous use is discovered.
If you sell goods in an unsealed box (which incidentally applies to all Nikon gear I believe) then you cannot prove it was 'new' and the buyer with facts as per the O/P has more evidence to prove he is right, (1800 clicks in 10 days is going some for most peoples 'normal' use anyway).
 
"Brand new" in my eyes is ZERO! Nothing more!
 
Brand new to me was also not the 1378 recorded shots on a NEX7 that I purchased, that had been a demonstrator with Sony. Camera was returned to the shop and instantly replaced with a new, sealed box and an apology.

It could also have been a return as someone just didn't like it, or even one that someone had found problems with.

Surely there is a lesson here after all this time, that the OP's first recourse was to return to the shop as soon as he discovered a possible problem, as opposed to this being the third day of discussion on a forum about a camera that was purchased a week before starting the thread.
 
The shop will have every right to question wether or not the OP hasnt put this number of images on the camera, after a week i wouldnt entertain an exchange if i owned the shop.
 
Jessops tried to palm me off with opened boxes 3 times, twice on the same order. By the 3rd time I started calling the store (these were orders for in-store collection) to check whether the seal was intact. If the answer was "no" I just rejected it over the phone.
 
As mentioned above, pretty sure Nikons don't come in sealed boxes.
 
Gary Coyle said:
The shop will have every right to question wether or not the OP hasnt put this number of images on the camera, after a week i wouldnt entertain an exchange if i owned the shop.
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Let's hope you never run a shop then as it would be a shop based on dishonest sales.
If you run the shop you know full well what you sold and if you suggest that the buyer has put 1500 shots on the camera you are quite simply lying.

What is your shop going to be called "Unethical Camera Supplies"
 
ernesto said:
Let's hope you never run a shop then as it would be a shop based on dishonest sales.
If you run the shop you know full well what you sold and if you suggest that the buyer has put 1500 shots on the camera you are quite simply lying.

What is your shop going to be called "Unethical Camera Supplies"
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Ooh la la! :lol:
 
Johnd2000 said:
Jessops tried to palm me off with opened boxes 3 times, twice on the same order. By the 3rd time I started calling the store (these were orders for in-store collection) to check whether the seal was intact. If the answer was "no" I just rejected it over the phone.
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Jessops did similar to me, bought a high end Fuji compact in store, when I got it home there were pictures of the idiot shop staff messing about in their stockroom on the built in memory.

I forwarded all the pictures to Jessops head office and they arranged for a properly new sealed camera to be sent out and they offered a 10% refund for the inconvenience.
 
This thread just shows that the modern camera is 'still' badly thought out.

Personally I would like to see on turning the power on a pic count & hours filmed on video.
Not exactly hard to put this in the BIOS & stops this sort of thing in its tracks.
 
You can check it on some makes, Panasonic have a service mode you can activate, Nikon show it in the normal menu.

It is a pity Canon dont make it easier, but the eoscount method is accurate (it uses the Canon SDK to read the details, the same way Canon would do) and I would hazard a guess that the small number of people who have claimed inaccurate readings more likely have got their assumed reading wrong (it's easy enough to lose track by using more than one memory card), unfortunately it isn't free anymore.
 
ernesto said:
Let's hope you never run a shop then as it would be a shop based on dishonest sales.
If you run the shop you know full well what you sold and if you suggest that the buyer has put 1500 shots on the camera you are quite simply lying.

What is your shop going to be called "Unethical Camera Supplies"
Click to expand...
Point is i wouldn't have sold it in the first place as new,
 
Gary Coyle said:
Point is i wouldn't have sold it in the first place as new,
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So you wouldn't need to question anything as there wouldn't have been a problem?
Your shop gets more strange by the minute and for that reason I won't be shopping there but good luck in your future venture as if there is one thing this country needs, it is more badly run shops.:)
 
I would make an exception in your case ernesto and as i was packing the box away i would have removed the camera and given you a brick instead :lol:

Seriously though, and im not questioning the OP's honesty but anything could have happened to the camera in the week it had been sold, i think the fault lies with the guy who made the "actual sale" for which the shop owner (probably not the "actual seller") will now have to make ammends, but surely the OP should have questioned being sold a camera from an unsealed box, he did clearly mention he saw it was unsealed??????

The guy who "actually sold" the camera should be reprimanded, unless of course its normal practice in the store to pass off used/display goods as new ala the now defunked Jessops, lots of shops do it and its a practice which needs stamping on.

I bought a new Nikon 16-35mm f/4 VR from Amazon (not an amazon ressller) but when i tried to register it with Nikon i was told "sorry but this lens was registered with us last week" Amazon sold me a customer return, go figure.
 
A lot will depend on what the seller has to say. If he claims it was brand new and unused and say you must have taken the 1500 shots you know he is lying so worth naming them I think. Haven't got a clue where you stand from a their word against your situation though, pity cameras didn't have full logs and time stamps for the shots...
 
EOS_JD said:
"Brand new" in my eyes is ZERO! Nothing more!
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I hope you never buy a Micro 4/3s camera, as I understand it Olympus test the shutter once the body has been assembled, so you might have trouble tracking one down on zero.
 
ukaskew said:
I hope you never buy a Micro 4/3s camera, as I understand it Olympus test the shutter once the body has been assembled, so you might have trouble tracking one down on zero.
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I've had 2 m4/3 Olympus bodies, both with 0 actuations when new, as did my Panasonic G2, so I would think your m4/3rds comparison is flawed.

I would actually be sure that all manufacturers test their shutters, and then factory flash the firmware to reset to 0.
 
Personally I think anything under 50 pics & I wouldn't care - 1500 just takes the p***.
 
Well, I certainly started a lively debate with this, didn't I - apologies for the delay in coming back with a response, but it took until late this afternoon for me to speak to the appropriate person in the shop.

The great news is revealed by the following picture ....

p1407022454-2.jpg
 
TrickiWoo said:
Well, I certainly started a lively debate with this, didn't I - apologies for the delay in coming back with a response, but it took until late this afternoon for me to speak to the appropriate person in the shop.

The great news is revealed by the following picture ....

p1407022454-2.jpg
Click to expand...

Result Simon :thumbs:
 
You worked out the clone tool? :D only joking glad you got it sorted.
 
So I spoke to the person at the shop, explained how I'd come to first think there were 5,500 previous shutter releases (due to using unformatted card), and then found with EOS Count there had been 1,600 or so in fact.

He wasn't at all surprised (so at least we didn't have the fake "not when it left the shop" arguement, that could have occurred), and suggested that he had mentioned that it was an ex-demo. When I said not so, and clearly I wouldn't have paid full retail price for an ex-demo, the response was that I got a SD memory card chucked in. My view was that was cos I spent another £1,600 on other things when I brought the kit ... blah blah.

Anyway, he immediately said he had sealed boxed ones in, and if I wanted to swap it I could. I would need to pay for the card, which was fine.

I swapped it as soon as I could get there (no kidding!!), and he actually did NOT charge me for the card.

So, I feel like I have had a lucky escape, and I'm clearly glad that I brought from a shop so I could easily follow up with any issues quite simply.

I don't think it was the best purchasing experience ever, but I would say that I was very happy with how they resolved my issue when I contacted them.

Thanks very much for the invaluable help you've provided, in guiding me through this experience. It's very helpful to know other folks are prepared to take the time to help out.

Thanks, Simon
 
Al1944 said:
As mentioned above, pretty sure Nikons don't come in sealed boxes.
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This is correct. I've never had a sealed Nikon box, and they've all been new.
 
TrickiWoo said:
So I spoke to the person at the shop, explained how I'd come to first think there were 5,500 previous shutter releases (due to using unformatted card), and then found with EOS Count there had been 1,600 or so in fact.

He wasn't at all surprised (so at least we didn't have the fake "not when it left the shop" arguement, that could have occurred), and suggested that he had mentioned that it was an ex-demo. When I said not so, and clearly I wouldn't have paid full retail price for an ex-demo, the response was that I got a SD memory card chucked in. My view was that was cos I spent another £1,600 on other things when I brought the kit ... blah blah.

Anyway, he immediately said he had sealed boxed ones in, and if I wanted to swap it I could. I would need to pay for the card, which was fine.

I swapped it as soon as I could get there (no kidding!!), and he actually did NOT charge me for the card.

So, I feel like I have had a lucky escape, and I'm clearly glad that I brought from a shop so I could easily follow up with any issues quite simply.

I don't think it was the best purchasing experience ever, but I would say that I was very happy with how they resolved my issue when I contacted them.

Thanks very much for the invaluable help you've provided, in guiding me through this experience. It's very helpful to know other folks are prepared to take the time to help out.

Thanks, Simon
Click to expand...

Great result :)

Al
 
Glad you got a result!

Be nice if lenses had some sort of 'shutter count', but then maybe it wouldn't :)
 
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