is the 7d really that bad?

niko

niko

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is the 7d really that bad?
i thought by the length of time its been out ,and the amount of people that seem to have them it was one of the better cams?
i must add Ive never seen or used one but there seems to be a lot of 7d dislike at the moment .it seems its based on poor noise .

it seems a bit odd ,
or is it just a case of its becoming trendy to knock it?
or is the quality control on it poor(bad examples out there?).
 
I have struggled with mine it was user error it really is a camera for the seasoned user and you have to know how to use it properly
My 600d was much easier to use a bit like point and squirt lol
I will however agree that the noise levels are not it's best feature one has to work round this characteristic with settings
why it is like this I have no idea my 600d had the same sensor
The 7d is quite a complex camera used by many of the top wild life togs who rate it highly
All the moaning I have read is from amateurs including myself I have not read any moaning from the pro togs they clearly know how to use their tools
 
It's a complicated camera to master and I would think that a lot of people who moan should RTFM.
There are lots of resources on the web with respect to this camera.
I did have an issue with noise when photographing birds in indifferent light in woodland, that's why I changed to a 1D IV.
But then I may just have been looking for an excuse to buy the 1D :D
 
cheers tony
so is it a case of bad/incorrect exposure showing the noise ?
i cant see how the snr can be any differant between the 600/60 or the 7
 
thanks for the reply ,what does rtfm mean please? never mind i just googled it:D
 
Hi Nik,

With the right glass in front of it, the 7D can be an awesome performer. However, when the light starts to fade and you have to start increasing the ISO, it's not the greatest camera in the world.

I've owned three in the past (two faulty ones when they were first released) and another one earlier this year. Now that nearly all of my lenses are f/2.8 or faster, I'm tempted to grab another one just to give me more reach.

All things considered though, it's the best 1.6x crop body Canon have made by a country mile. As Laurence said before though, if you want better performance from a crop body, buy a 1DMKIV! :)

Cheers,
Si
 
Be interesting to know why it is a bit pants at high iso when the sensor is identical to the 600d and 60d and from what I have read the 60d is quite good at higher ISO and suffers less noise than the 7d
I try to avoid high iso and cropping I just get closer or use a longer lens and daylight hours
Most people viewing your images are using a naf screen anyway
eg they all look pants on my hp laptop but look ace on my eldest's del
The manufactures give you one thing and take something away I am sure it is deliberate marketing within their model range
 
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Spiritflier said:
Hi Nik,

With the right glass in front of it, the 7D can be an awesome performer. However, when the light starts to fade and you have to start increasing the ISO, it's not the greatest camera in the world.

I've owned three in the past (two faulty ones when they were first released) and another one earlier this year. Now that nearly all of my lenses are f/2.8 or faster, I'm tempted to grab another one just to give me more reach.

All things considered though, it's the best 1.6x crop body Canon have made by a country mile. As Laurence said before though, if you want better performance from a crop body, buy a 1DMKIV! :)

Cheers,
Si
Click to expand...

cheers si that's great info ,iam after a full frame really (well a 5d mk111:D)im so used to film 35mm that the crop factor annoys me
but just assessing my option as its a lot of cash that would take a long time to pay off.
oddly anough the other cam if thinking about for now is a x10 until the price of the mk111 drops ,and just continue with film slr in the mean time (its getting expensive to shoot is the problem here)
then again i could always go to the dark side:eek::D
 
It is a good camera. The af is superb an the extra reach from the crop is useful. Above ISO 800 noise does start to be visible but can be dealt with by good noise reduction. I am happy to use it up to 3200 and have gone as far as 6400. The noise is more apparent in darker green backgrounds to my eye and you can quite often tell a 7d wildlife shot because of it. It doesn't actually look too bad!

It was launched in 2009 and for a camera of its age it performs well and for the price the build and af quality are second to none.

However, when its successor comes and if it has better noise handling I will be getting one as soon as I can. ;)
 
Rebel t3i said:
Be interesting to know why it is a bit pants at high iso when the sensor is identical to the 600d and 60d and from what I have read the 60d is quite good at higher ISO and suffers less noise than the 7d
I try to avoid high iso and cropping I just get closer or use a longer lens and daylight hours
Most people viewing your images are using a naf screen anyway
eg they all look pants on my hp laptop but look ace on my eldest's del
The manufactures give you one thing and take something away I am sure it is deliberate marketing within their model range
Click to expand...

i am sure your correct about the deliberate marketing,
look at the specs of the 6d id put money on part of the reason for it is to push the 5dmk111 sales up
i guess that's good business sense
 
cheers jim
that's useful info can you point me to some high res example pics to look at the typical noise levels at higher isos please
 
Rebel t3i said:
Be interesting to know why it is a bit pants at high iso when the sensor is identical to the 600d and 60d and from what I have read the 60d is quite good at higher ISO and suffers less noise than the 7d
I try to avoid high iso and cropping I just get closer or use a longer lens and daylight hours
Most people viewing your images are using a naf screen anyway
eg they all look pants on my hp laptop but look ace on my eldest's del
The manufactures give you one thing and take something away I am sure it is deliberate marketing within their model range
Click to expand...

Isn't the 60D and 7D with the same sensor? The major difference are the users. 600/60D typically are used by consumers or beginners which are amazed by the quality compared to their last compact. That's normal and to be expected. Now the 7D is likely to be picked up by pros that also use 5Ds, 1Ds and so on, and the difference there is quite obvious. It has to be, it's an old design of APS-C sensor made into pointless 18MP. They should have developed their 12mp (450D - arguably optimum Canon APS-C design to date) to a sharp and low noise chip. The only way those 18MP are useful is with a very high quality prime shooting fairly wide open (300/2.8 135/2 and so on)
 
I never bonded with mine. The AF although quick wasn't that reliable on wide apertures.
Ironic really as I've since moved onto a 5D2 and I now use manual focus 90% of the time.

As others have said its the best canon crop camera and perfect for sports. Current prices are now making it a bargain. Maybe I got a bad example or was expecting too much.
 
niko said:
cheers jim
that's useful info can you point me to some high res example pics to look at the typical noise levels at higher isos please
Click to expand...

I don't have any high res ones online but you should be able to see it in my Flickr examples- look at the Skomer set in particular.
 
menthel said:
I don't have any high res ones online but you should be able to see it in my Flickr examples- look at the Skomer set in particular.
Click to expand...

cheers mate much appreciated ,can you remember what setting(iso) where used on the puffin pics ?i cant seem to find the data on there
 
daugirdas said:
Isn't the 60D and 7D with the same sensor?
Click to expand...
Although the sensor might be the same, the analogue and digital processing behind it may well differ. The 5D2 and 1Ds3 utilised the same sensor but the output was clearly different...the 1Ds3 being better at lower Iso levels whilst the 5D2 was cleaner at the top end.

Bob
 
daugirdas said:
They should have developed their 12mp (450D - arguably optimum Canon APS-C design to date)
Click to expand...

A 1100D then? That sensor with a DIGIC-IV processing it is meant to have fantastic IQ, just a shame about the build quality. That sensor in a 7D body with its AF etc would be great.

I'm also of the "18mp is too much on a 1.6x crop" camp. If I was buying for high speed action today, I'd go get a pre-owned 1DIII for about £950.
 
I've had my 7D for nearly three years now and it is a great camera, I've not seen anything yet that has made me want to change. It is complicated in as much as it is so configurable, but I've had some great results. Here's a 6400 shot which is acceptable to me.

Img_2509.jpg


and another with the extended mode ie 12800 1/5 f3.5 handheld, not ace but acceptable.

IMG_G0548.jpg
 
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my 7d seems to prefer expensive canon L glass that just might be the placebo effect though
 
niko said:
...oddly anough the other cam if thinking about for now is a x10 until the price of the mk111 drops...
Click to expand...

I'm going to take a wander along the prom this evening with both the 5DMKIII and the X10 so you're more than welcome to try them out. :)

Cheers,
Si
 
Spiritflier said:
I'm going to take a wander along the prom this evening with both the 5DMKIII and the X10 so you're more than welcome to try them out. :)

Cheers,
Si
Click to expand...
id love to mate ,ill pm you for details
 
Rebel t3i said:
Be interesting to know why it is a bit pants at high iso when the sensor is identical to the 600d and 60d and from what I have read the 60d is quite good at higher ISO and suffers less noise than the 7d
Click to expand...

Those cameras came out after the 7D so we can only assume that Canon either listened to complaints or spotted the issue themselves and did something slightly different with later cameras.
 
daugirdas said:
Isn't the 60D and 7D with the same sensor? The major difference are the users. 600/60D typically are used by consumers or beginners which are amazed by the quality compared to their last compact. That's normal and to be expected.
Click to expand...

No. I've seen this mentioned in reviews and by more experienced users too so it does look like a real improvement rather than user error.

I assume that Canon have tweaked the firmware in later models or even made some physical changes.
 
You could always put it down to,if enought people are moaning about it,their cant be that much wrong with it :D
 
niko said:
is the 7d really that bad?
i thought by the length of time its been out ,and the amount of people that seem to have them it was one of the better cams?
Click to expand...

It is, especially if you can read the manual.
 
I have had 2 7Ds and the first was a stunner really excellent when it came down to noise, no issues at 1600/3200 ISO, but the autofocus went after about 6 months and I got a replacement. The noise was poor at 400 ISO and I was never really happy with it. I think there has def been an issue with consistency on this model. :| Well exposed images are a must!

So when some complain and others love it, I think it depends on which day of the week it was made.
 
Absolutely no issues with the 7D at all, I've been using it for nearly a year now.
It's really responsive, quick to handle and has amazing build and image quality.
I'm more than happy with everything it's got to offer and I don't see myself wanting to upgrade in the near future.
It could be the way I use it, but I've had no issues with noise levels etc. people seem to moan about.
I have to say I don't pixel peep or crop my images to the extreme.
 
cheers guys
the different replies are very interesting ,its amazing how polarized views are with this cam
i wander if there are quality control issues ?
 
Mine is brilliant :) Bought it in Feb/March 2010, such a massive jump from the 400D I had before! I love fiddling with the settings, so I can get the best out of it. The noise can be an issue sometimes, but it's perfectly usable at 3200. 6400 is a bit messy, but shoot in RAW and tidy up in Lightroom and it seems to be ok!
 
niko said:
cheers guys
the different replies are very interesting ,its amazing how polarized views are with this cam
i wander if there are quality control issues ?
Click to expand...

I think it depends on what people are using it for too... someone who is happy to shoot the odd image for fun / hobby at ISO 3200 won't be as concerned or notice the noise as someone who has to give a bride and groom 100 - 300 images from a church and reception all at that ISO.
 
chilliz said:
I think there are QC issues with Canon full stop. but I don`t suppose Nikon are any different.
Click to expand...
I don't think QC issues will really have an impact on the high ISO performance or the focus performance, which are the big 'issues' with the 7d.

ajax_andy said:
I think it depends on what people are using it for too... someone who is happy to shoot the odd image for fun / hobby at ISO 3200 won't be as concerned or notice the noise as someone who has to give a bride and groom 100 - 300 images from a church and reception all at that ISO.
Click to expand...

What makes acceptable high ISO is very subjective, and I don't understand why photographers get hung up on it.

It's not so long ago that 3200 ISO was a fantasy. There's no camera in the world that'll give photographers what they want - which is unlimited ISO's all with the image quality you get at 100.

I have never had a customer complain about noise in an image - they haven't got a clue what 3200 iso means, but from seeing pictures all their lives they have an inbuilt understanding that photo's shot in the dark don't look quite as nice as photo's shot in lots of light.

When customers see shots from their ceremony, they're just so pleased I managed to capture their character and the emotion of the event if you asked them about image noise they'd look at you like you were speaking a foreign language. I'm sure sports photographers have the same thing with action shots at night - 'wow you caught that mid tackle brilliantly' rather than 'ooh, that's cool it's a shame about the chrominance noise in the green channel':cuckoo:

As a photographer - if my customers are looking at the noise in my images - I've failed miserably, and buying a better camera isn't going to help those problems :shrug:.
 
niko said:
cheers guys
the different replies are very interesting ,its amazing how polarized views are with this cam
i wander if there are quality control issues ?
Click to expand...

Yes, I'm sure there are. However, I've no idea how Canon could actually control the quality of the people that use their cameras.
 
hollis_f said:
Yes, I'm sure there are. However, I've no idea how Canon could actually control the quality of the people that use their cameras.
Click to expand...

If there was an award for 'post of the day', this would get it! :) :thumbs:

:1st:
 
hollis_f said:
Yes, I'm sure there are. However, I've no idea how Canon could actually control the quality of the people that use their cameras.
Click to expand...

:D excellent ,now theres a quote for someones sig line
 
Phil V said:
I don't think QC issues will really have an impact on the high ISO performance or the focus performance, which are the big 'issues' with the 7d.
Click to expand...

I have no issues with focus at all, it`s superb, but I have had two different cameras within a couple of weeks and got wildly different results with noise.

Why would that happen?

By the way I`m not 7D bashing as I still use one in addition to the 5D2.
 
chilliz said:
... I have had two different cameras within a couple of weeks and got wildly different results with noise.

Why would that happen?
..
Click to expand...

That sounds like a QC issue - but thousands of photographers on internet forums making broad statements about high ISO noise on a top selling camera is a different thing.
 
Phil V said:
That sounds like a QC issue - but thousands of photographers on internet forums making broad statements about high ISO noise on a top selling camera is a different thing.
Click to expand...

Yeah I know but it does show there have been problems, in fact in the early days many got returned "en mass" due to poor noise at low ISOs. Those who have good camera are always going to say that there is no issue, it`s down to user error.
 
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