Is Photography/camera a guy thing?

Probably more to do with it being seen as an easy option like drama or 'media studies'.

Nope.. afraid not. More girls seem interested in it than boys... but they are interested in Photography... not cameras. They just don't have the same obsession with gear as boys do, which is probably why there are fewer of them on sites like this.

They are usually much better photographers for not caring about gear too. They're just tools and a means to an end to most girls... like tools to a mechanic... and when they sit around talking about photography, they talk about imagery, not lenses and stuff.

Sorry... it's true.

Suggesting that girls only do it because it's an easy subject "like drama or media studies" is a little patronising to women. It suggests that only men tackle "hard" subjects.
 
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Laudrup said:
Probably more to do with it being seen as an easy option like drama or 'media studies'.

Or maybe they just enjoy it?
 
I am new to photography myself and have not noticed any gender bias, apart from on here which is more male dominated.

So, what happened to make you post?
 
Nope.. afraid not. More girls seem interested in it than boys... but they are interested in Photography... not cameras. They just don't have the same obsession with gear as boys do, which is probably why there are fewer of them on sites like this.

They are usually much better photographers for not caring about gear too. They're just tools and a means to an end to most girls... like tools to a mechanic... and when they sit around talking about photography, they talk about imagery, not lenses and stuff.

Sorry... it's true.

Suggesting that girls only do it because it's an easy subject "like drama or media studies" is a little patronising to women. It suggests that only men tackle "hard" subjects.


A photography class is perceived as an easy and a 'cool' creative thing to do. The subject is seen as soft and the qualification is relatively worthless. It could be seen as shirking an academically rigorous subject for a less challenging subject that relies on practical bias.

Nearly 50% of UK coeducational schools have no female students taking A-level physics. Is physics seen as easy or cool? No. It's seen as difficult and geeky, which means a shortage of female pupils. It's not a good state of affairs. More girls doing physics and fewer doing photography is what we need.
 
I think the gear/fact obsession is more a blokey thing - you rarely see/hear a group of ladies stood around talking (very seriously) in numbers - but I don't see photography as a blokey thing per se.

:plusone:
 
A photography class is perceived as an easy and a 'cool' creative thing to do. The subject is seen as soft and the qualification is relatively worthless. It could be seen as shirking an academically rigorous subject for a less challenging subject that relies on practical bias.

Nearly 50% of UK coeducational schools have no female students taking A-level physics. Is physics seen as easy or cool? No. It's seen as difficult and geeky, which means a shortage of female pupils. It's not a good state of affairs. More girls doing physics and fewer doing photography is what we need.

Why?
 
Laudrup said:
A photography class is perceived as an easy and a 'cool' creative thing to do. The subject is seen as soft and the qualification is relatively worthless. It could be seen as shirking an academically rigorous subject for a less challenging subject that relies on practical bias.

Nearly 50% of UK coeducational schools have no female students taking A-level physics. Is physics seen as easy or cool? No. It's seen as difficult and geeky, which means a shortage of female pupils. It's not a good state of affairs. More girls doing physics and fewer doing photography is what we need.

Without sounding sexist, girls just aren't into physics, generally speaking. It's the same with engineering, astronomy, and a lot of the other sciences etc. I bet there are more females with a Ba honors than a Bsc.

It's just he way brains are wired.

Which is why guys are more obsessed with the kit!
 
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Without sounding sexist, girls just aren't into physics, generally speaking. It's the same with engineering, astronomy, and a lot of the other sciences etc. I bet there are more females with a Ba honors than a Bsc.

It's just he way brains are wired.

Which is why guys are more obsessed with the kit!

Funnily enough this follows on from a conversation I was having with a female friend yesterday - men and women / boys and girls are equal but we are different and more people should accept that :D
 
Laudrup said:
Because scientific research benefits us all. The more young women engaged in it and told being clever is cool the better.

Does it matter if its a male or female who designs satellites, or finds cancer treatments?

It really makes no odds, as long as someone does it.
 
Iris said:
Funnily enough this follows on from a conversation I was having with a female friend yesterday - men and women / boys and girls are equal but we are different and more people should accept that :D

Exactly!
 
Without sounding sexist, girls just aren't into physics, generally speaking. It's the same with engineering, astronomy, and a lot of the other sciences etc. I bet there are more females with a Ba honors than a Bsc.

It's just he way brains are wired.

Which is why guys are more obsessed with the kit!
It's less to do with how brains are 'wired', than it is to do with how society values women. Looking at the media, it values women like Kim Kardashian. There are not many 'cool' or even visible female scientists in popular culture. As long as being clever isn't cool or attractive (or even an option, if you don't have any role models, you can't emulate them!) for girls, the less they will try.

If you want to talk neuropsychology then fine but you would need a basic understanding on brain development which, given your statement that brains are 'wired' in certain ways, suggests that you do not.

Interesting anecdote. fMRI scans often show that men have more resources within the brain to approach tasks requiring spatial awareness skills, than women do. Once women do specialised training in this area (like female Pilots do), this discrepancy disappears, suggesting we can train our brains to adapt to the demands of tasks we regularly encounter. Traditionally boys are given 'construction' games like Lego, giving them opportunity to develop their spatial awareness resources, whereas girls are often given toy cookers and dolls, developing their skills in other areas. When you know the impact this has on brain development, it isn't so hard to see men and women develop strengths in different areas leading to stereotypes like "women can't drive or park", or women aren't good at Physics or Maths.
 
Does it matter if its a male or female who designs satellites, or finds cancer treatments?

It really makes no odds, as long as someone does it.

Devil's advocate -

It matters if we've encouraged more boys to do it than girls, and if the girls that didn't take it up were potentially better than the boys that did.

So there's less chance of making those breakthroughs if we're not applying the best minds to the task.

I don't know whether that's even measurable, but it makes sense logically. We can only do what we've got with the allocated resources - with different resources we'd get different results. Of course there are schools of thought that would aim to disprove this.
 
Doodlydoo said:
It's less to do with how brains are 'wired', than it is to do with how society values women. Looking at the media, it values women like Kim Kardashian. There are not many 'cool' or even visible female scientists in popular culture. As long as being clever isn't cool or attractive (or even an option, if you don't have any role models, you can't emulate them!) for girls, the less they will try.

If you want to talk neuropsychology then fine but you would need a basic understanding on brain development which, given your statement that brains are 'wired' in certain ways, suggests that you do not.

Interesting anecdote. fMRI scans often show that men have more resources within the brain to approach tasks requiring spatial awareness skills, than women do. Once women do specialised training in this area (like female Pilots do), this discrepancy disappears, suggesting we can train our brains to adapt to the demands of tasks we regularly encounter. Traditionally boys are given 'construction' games like Lego, giving them opportunity to develop their spatial awareness resources, whereas girls are often given toy cookers and dolls, developing their skills in other areas. When you know the impact this has on brain development, it isn't so hard to see men and women develop strengths in different areas leading to stereotypes like "women can't drive or park", or women aren't good at Physics or Maths.

No it's not. How can you say the reason females aren't interest in physics or astronomy (for example) is because of the way society values them? That's like saying women aren't capable of independent thought!!

The term brains being 'wired' is purely phraseology, and not to be taken literally. No I don't think our heads are full of copper wire...
 
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Same argument for any boys that could have done well but didn't take it up either.

Back to photography, anyone who is more obsessed with getting the image they want rather than fussing about the equipment is more suited to being a photographer.
 
ernesto said:
Same argument for any boys that could have done well but didn't take it up either.

Back to photography, anyone who is more obsessed with getting the image they want rather than fussing about the equipment is more suited to being a photographer.

It's not really, my point is one sex is naturally interested in certain things while the other isn't. It's not about training one to sex to improve an expect they normally wouldn't excel in.

That's why the two never get along!
 
No it's not. How can you say the reason females aren't interest in physics or astronomy (for example) is because of the way society values them? That's like saying women aren't capable of independent thought!!

The term brains being 'wired' is purely phraseology, and not to be taken literally. No I don't think our heads are full of copper wire...

No, it's saying that we are a product of society and society doesn't encourage young girls to be particularly academic. Isn't that obvious? It is to me but I appreciate that purely as a product of our sex, we have different experiences. Anyway, this is getting off topic.
 
In my particular field of work there are a lot of women photographers, probably more than men. I've worked with a few of them and they've been far more interested in my gear than I am.

Probably jealous cos I shoot Nikon ;)
 
No, it's saying that we are a product of society and society doesn't encourage young girls to be particularly academic. Isn't that obvious? It is to me but I appreciate that purely as a product of our sex, we have different experiences. Anyway, this is getting off topic.

:thinking: If you had argued that point 40+ yrs ago I might have agreed with you, but even 30 yrs ago, when I was at school in a northern town in a state comprehensive, girls were actively being encouraged to be more academic. The experience of my own kids, both girls, is that they have both been encouraged to do what they want to do - the engineering GCSE class at my daughters school was 50-50 boys and girls, sciences as popular with the girls as boys and more girls doing maths and business studies than boys. If that is society not encouraging girls, then not really sure what is.

I do agree females are hard wired differently to males, and that has to be accepted. It doesn't mean we are any less capable at certain jobs, it just means that we might approach them differently to achieve the same ends. Frankly I cannot be bothered sitting around discussing the relative merits of focal lengths and exact power outputs per foot of a studio lights or whatever, just let me take photos ;)
 
Doodlydoo said:
No, it's saying that we are a product of society and society doesn't encourage young girls to be particularly academic. Isn't that obvious? It is to me but I appreciate that purely as a product of our sex, we have different experiences. Anyway, this is getting off topic.

That's an inaccurate and outdated view. Of course we encourage girls to be academic.

There were more females at my uni than males, which worked out nicely for me.
 
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It's not really, my point is one sex is naturally interested in certain things while the other isn't. It's not about training one to sex to improve an expect they normally wouldn't excel in.

That's why the two never get along!

You are a product of your environment and the brain is very adaptive to change, so it's essentially nurture and not nature.
 
Laudrup said:
You are a product of your environment and the brain is very adaptive to change, so it's essentially nurture and not nature.

How does that explain anything?!

That would mean men and women would all be interested in the same things.
 
:thinking: If you had argued that point 40+ yrs ago I might have agreed with you, but even 30 yrs ago, when I was at school in a northern town in a state comprehensive, girls were actively being encouraged to be more academic. The experience of my own kids, both girls, is that they have both been encouraged to do what they want to do - the engineering GCSE class at my daughters school was 50-50 boys and girls, sciences as popular with the girls as boys and more girls doing maths and business studies than boys. If that is society not encouraging girls, then not really sure what is.

I do agree females are hard wired differently to males, and that has to be accepted. It doesn't mean we are any less capable at certain jobs, it just means that we might approach them differently to achieve the same ends. Frankly I cannot be bothered sitting around discussing the relative merits of focal lengths and exact power outputs per foot of a studio lights or whatever, just let me take photos ;)

Well IMO the popular media has more of an impact than schools/teachers/parents! And the media promotes pretty, sexual, dumb women. When I was doing GCSEs approximately 10 years ago...I can't think of any girls in my year who did physics for example, I cant even remember any of my (girl) friends doing maths. I remember being told by my teacher that physics was not a girls subject anyway. I suppose we have different experiences.

It is a popular myth that male and female brains are dramatically different in every way. My experience of neuropsychology tells me that we look for and actively encourage differences - and it is this that makes the big impact, not some natural 'hard wire' theory.
 
Doodlydoo said:
Well IMO the popular media has more of an impact than schools/teachers/parents! And the media promotes pretty, sexual, dumb women. When I was doing GCSEs approximately 10 years ago...I can't think of any girls in my year who did physics for example, I cant even remember any of my (girl) friends doing maths. I remember being told by my teacher that physics was not a girls subject anyway. I suppose we have different experiences.

It is a popular myth that male and female brains are dramatically different in every way. My experience of neuropsychology tells me that we look for and actively encourage differences - and it is this that makes the big impact, not some natural 'hard wire' theory.

Or it could be that we are indeed different.

Why is that so hard to accept?

As for your slightly skewed opinion of female academia, well my ex girlfriend was a doctor and another female friend of mine has a masters in mathematics and has worked for GCHQ for the last decade. They are two of the most qualified and academic people I know.

They also like the colour pink.

Also, your theory still suggests women are incapable of independent thought, have no aims or goals and just want to be like the pretty little things on TV and in magazines. Not only is this half a century out of date, but it also suggests you should get out there and meet more women!
 
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"Why is that so hard to accept?" - Because I don't see sufficient evidence to back that up.

I must laugh at the irony of you calling my view of female academia slightly skewed. It's just your point of view against mine. I have a degree and a masters too but anecdotes do not equal data.

Do you think liking the colour pink is innate too?
 
If this place is anything to go by, it's heavily male biased and men of a certain age with DSLRs and a strong interest in kit (as well as images).

Go to the Focus show - almost all men. Photo magazine readership, also a strong male bias.

There is no reason for this and women make great photographers. It's just the way it is. The gear aspect is probably a significant factor, though many men deny it. Girls tend to care less about kit.
 
How does that explain anything?!

That would mean men and women would all be interested in the same things.

Your environment and conditioning explains more than the vagueness that is being 'naturally interested in something'. That doesn't explain anything.
 
Laudrup said:
Your environment and conditioning explains more than the vagueness that is being 'naturally interested in something'. That doesn't explain anything.

But that's the way it is.
 
Or it could be that we are indeed different.

Why is that so hard to accept?

As for your slightly skewed opinion of female academia, well my ex girlfriend was a doctor and another female friend of mine has a masters in mathematics and has worked for GCHQ for the last decade. They are two of the most qualified and academic people I know.

They also like the colour pink.

Also, your theory still suggests women are incapable of independent thought, have no aims or goals and just want to be like the pretty little things on TV and in magazines. Not only is this half a century out of date, but it also suggests you should get out there and meet more women!

100 years ago it was pink for the boys and blue for the girls. There is no pink or blue gene, just your environment pointing what to conform to. As for the independent thought the peer pressure, media, parents and even teachers play their role.

Two-thirds of the British public are unable to name a single famous female scientist, according to an ICM poll.

The same survey, organised by the Royal Society, revealed that 90% of 18-24 year-olds could not name a female scientific figure - either current or historical.

This ignorance is what is being fought against. Female perceptions are changing slowly according to surveys that is despite the slew of utter crap full of proud to be thick airheads aimed directly at the young female demographic.
 
I bet the majority of people surveyed couldn't name a famous male scientist either?
 
A photography class is perceived as an easy and a 'cool' creative thing to do. The subject is seen as soft and the qualification is relatively worthless. It could be seen as shirking an academically rigorous subject for a less challenging subject that relies on practical bias.

Nearly 50% of UK coeducational schools have no female students taking A-level physics. Is physics seen as easy or cool? No. It's seen as difficult and geeky, which means a shortage of female pupils. It's not a good state of affairs. More girls doing physics and fewer doing photography is what we need.


Well...whatever the perception is, it's an academic subject at BA (Hons) level and above. Despite what some people think, a subject doesn't have to be scientific to be academic. Research is research after all.

While we clearly do get people who feel it's a walk in the park and an easy alternative to something more challenging ("it's just taking pictures" mentality), they're usually gone by the end of semester 1 as they quickly realise that's not the case and fail. They're mostly male however, and we get around 4 or 5 of those most years.

Is it more "vocational"? Well.. yes, understandably.. if you mean "doing stuff" = vocational. Does that make it easier? Nope. Different yes. The majority of male students just want to churn out technically driven, formulaic stuff to begin with, whereas the female students seem to be far more interested in innovating, and producing fresh new work by engaging in art based research. Male students find it harder to research, and simply don't see the value as much. Male students tend to not value photography as art as much... yet enrol on a Bachelor of Arts degree :).. they then spend 3 years complaining about the course rather than realising they're on the wrong course :) They want a degree... but they want to gain one just by taking photos :) This sadly, seems to be typical male behaviour. Female students embrace the research more, and have a clearer idea of what the course is for.

Is photography cool and creative? Absolutely. Is a creative subject easier? Of course not. It's no easier to be a good photographer than it is a good writer, or musician or actor or graphic designer. It's a creative endeavour, and the ones who succeed are the ones who work really hard and research and develop their work both academically and technically. Most blokes seem confused by what creativity is: Lately, they think it's taking pictures of Lego people and light painting (what's all that about?).

The fact is, there are less women photographers on sites like this, because it's all techy techy techy, all the time, and when anyone tries to discuss photography as anything else, you get shouted down as being "arty farty". Blokes love all that techy shizzle though... women just find it confusing it seems (not confused BY it... just it's importance as men perceive it).. they are just interested in the images, and in art. Women generally make better photographers as a result. Blokes are more likely to become technical photographers... commercial or industrial... far less likely to embrace the medium as an art form.

There are just as many famous women photographers as there are men.. probably more. It just seems to be that the male photographers seem to achieve more notoriety outside of academia/exhibition/fine art... partly because of the nerdy, technical and commercially acceptable nature of their work in what is essentially still a patriarchal society ... sadly.

Want it to change? Stop embedding gender roles into your children by the way you raise them. (shrug).
 
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one of the things i like about photography is it is something that i can do with the mrs as we both have cameras & it gets us out & about together :)

however she travels light with her D90 & couple of inexpensive lenses whle i lug around at least 2 bodys & a massively heavy bag filled with lenses i spent way too much time wanting & researching :shrug:

i guess we fit into the stereotypes mentioned earlier :bonk:
 
one of the things i like about photography is it is something that i can do with the mrs as we both have cameras & it gets us out & about together :)

however she travels light with her D90 & couple of inexpensive lenses whle i lug around at least 2 bodys & a massively heavy bag filled with lenses i spent way too much time wanting & researching :shrug:

i guess we fit into the stereotypes mentioned earlier :bonk:


.....but does she take better pictures than you?


Heather
 
owning unessecary amounts of gear you've no idea how to use: male

artistic expression: gender neutral
 
.....but does she take better pictures than you?


Heather

well i'm not going to admit that am i ;)

however when we're out we we seem to often come back with very different pics. (obviously there are some very similar ones) where i try to shoot wide & epic she's scrabbling around on her knees getting in close ......
 
That is exactly how it is with my husband and I, not that he's a photographer. There I am oohing and aahing at flowers and insects on my knees, whilst he is admiring the magnificent view I haven't even noticed!
 
I'm not sure that it's a "guy thing" but I would suggest that there are more blokes who own cameras than women, but in the digital age that gap seems to be narrowing.
Although not very scientific, a good indication of the m/f split would be to see what the ratio of blokes to women there are on this forum.

My own personal observations would be that there would be more blokes than women, but not sure of why that is the case.
 
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