Is Panamoz "back"?
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I really am very tempted by their price for the 70D but I'm in desperate need of a new laptop which is taking priority otherwise I might have gone for it. Even if you had to pay your own VAT it would still be cheaper than a UK sourced camera!
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yes because asking them to clarify whether they'll refund the proper amount of import tax and Vat if someone is honest with the revenue is soooooo unreasonable ( I'm not singling panamoz out - I've asked the question of 5 grey importers now... not one has yet come back and said "yes that won't be a problem" - although there are two who say they pay it themselves and supply from a uk base)
its exactly like a witch hunt, apart from being.... you know....... completely different
its exactly like a witch hunt, apart from being.... you know....... completely different
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Could you stop with the trolling posts, it looks like all you are trying to do is troll for a reaction.
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Sorry, Tony, I can understand your viewpoint, but it comes over as just trying to cause an argument.
I know you are against import vat/duty being paid or declared, but trying to be facetious to further your viewpoint will just lead to (unnecessary) arguments.
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may be because this thread is about Panamoz ?
there are other threads about DSLR Hut and PCS , and D'rev (and portus , and one stop, and simply electronics etc )
TBH panamoz could clear this up easily - all they need to do is confirm that they will indeed refund import and Vat even when someone declares the true value of their parcel to HMRC
or alternately that they won't but that they don't misdeclare values so the importer needs to budget the extra.
so far they haven't had the courtesy to respond to the email either way :shrug:
Rebel t3i
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where do I say that
what I am against is the witch hunting and the possible hypocrisy on the morality of buying from abroad
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what witch hunting and hypocrisy ?
How is asking a supplier to confirm their position on import tax/vat a witch hunt ? (especially when the same question has been asked of a range of competitors too)
And how is it hypocrisy to say that you'll only buy grey if the goods aren't smuggled ?
How is asking a supplier to confirm their position on import tax/vat a witch hunt ? (especially when the same question has been asked of a range of competitors too)
And how is it hypocrisy to say that you'll only buy grey if the goods aren't smuggled ?
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whether it be tax laws people are breaking or road traffic laws for example
This is where the hypocrisy may stem from
so those who so strongly feel that people who have purchased/ are purchasing a grey import must be 100% sure that they have never broken any uk law themselves
This is where the hypocrisy may stem from
so those who so strongly feel that people who have purchased/ are purchasing a grey import must be 100% sure that they have never broken any uk law themselves
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I've never deliberately broken any UK law - including road laws, Ive also never posted on any forum inciting others to break any UK law
as I said before accidentally doing 33 in a 30 or 75 in a 70 is the moral equivalent of accidentally buying from one of these suppliers without realising what they are doing (easily enough done as many of them give a façade of being uk companies). That isn't what my posts on these threads are about
The moral equivalent of deliberately and knowingly evading import tax and VAT then encouraging others to do the same , would be something like driving at 120mph down an dual carriage way performing powerslides on corners and roundabouts then bragging about it on a krooz forum.
I've never done anything that equates to the latter
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Really - despite all these threads ?
thing is technically buying grey isn't breaking the law... you only break the law if you don't pay your import/tax and vat
which is why it would be good to clarify with panamoz (and all the other main players) what their position is on this.
HDEW and Kerso both say that they handle the import and provide paperwork that shows that everything is on the up.
If panamoz came back saying " yeah no problem , declare the real value and we'll cover it" or " yeah no problem all our parcels are labelled with the correct value and we cover it" then they'd go on my " people to recommend list" too
so far they haven't done that - but i'm keeping an open mind, maybe they just haven't got round to the email yet
) - I really do want to know if they get back on the question and the way things are heading the thread will be locked.
Rebel t3i
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Look. There's nothing wrong with breaking the law as long as we all make a few quid, right?
Christ on a bike. Get real, people!
I think people are just trying to save a few quid not make a few quid
surf the net for the cheapest item
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dodgy dave round the back of the dog and duck has got some great deals in the boot of his Datsun
okay so they are all stolen , but hey if we aren't bothered about breaking the law if we save a few quid
okay so they are all stolen , but hey if we aren't bothered about breaking the law if we save a few quid
Rebel t3i
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What has that statement got to do with panamoz and grey importsdodgy dave round the back of the dog and duck has got some great deals in the boot of his Datsun
okay so they are all stolen , but hey if we aren't bothered about breaking the law if we save a few quid
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Dave *
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dodgy dave round the back of the dog and duck has got some great deals in the boot of his Datsun
okay so they are all stolen , but hey if we aren't bothered about breaking the law if we save a few quid
I've never been to the Dog and Duck
And my mates mate said he had receipts for everything
.
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[YOUTUBE]SKAqmqVQ700[/YOUTUBE]
Stick a pony in me pocket,
I'll fetch the suitcase from the van.
Cos if you want the best 'uns,
But you don't ask questions,
Then brother, I'm your man.
Cos where it all comes from is a mystery,
It's like the changin' of the seasons,
And the tides of the sea.
But here's the one that's drivin' me beserk,
Why do only fools and horses work?
La-la-la-la-lah
La-lala-la
La-la-la-la-lah
La-lala-la.
Closing Lyrics:
We've got some half price cracked ice and miles and miles of carpet tiles,
T.V.s, deep freeze and David Bowie L.P.s,
Ball games, gold chains, whassa-names, and at a push,
Some Trevor Francis track suits from a mush in Shepherds Bush,
Bush, bush, bush, bush, bush, bush, bush ...
No income tax, no V.A.T.,
No money back, no guarantee,
Black or white, rich or poor,
We'll cut prices at a stroke......
God bless Hooky Street,
Viva Hooky Street,
Long live Hooky Street,
C'est magnifique, Hooky Street,
Magnifique, Hooky Street,
Hooky Street (to fade)
Stick a pony in me pocket,
I'll fetch the suitcase from the van.
Cos if you want the best 'uns,
But you don't ask questions,
Then brother, I'm your man.
Cos where it all comes from is a mystery,
It's like the changin' of the seasons,
And the tides of the sea.
But here's the one that's drivin' me beserk,
Why do only fools and horses work?
La-la-la-la-lah
La-lala-la
La-la-la-la-lah
La-lala-la.
Closing Lyrics:
We've got some half price cracked ice and miles and miles of carpet tiles,
T.V.s, deep freeze and David Bowie L.P.s,
Ball games, gold chains, whassa-names, and at a push,
Some Trevor Francis track suits from a mush in Shepherds Bush,
Bush, bush, bush, bush, bush, bush, bush ...
No income tax, no V.A.T.,
No money back, no guarantee,
Black or white, rich or poor,
We'll cut prices at a stroke......
God bless Hooky Street,
Viva Hooky Street,
Long live Hooky Street,
C'est magnifique, Hooky Street,
Magnifique, Hooky Street,
Hooky Street (to fade)
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seriously ?
you seem to be saying that its okay to break the law to save a few quid
so what is the moral difference between knowingly committing tax evasion to save a few quid, and knowingly buying stolen goods to save a few quid ?
(NB: I am not accusing panamoz of either - it is the buyer who commits tax evasion if they don't declare the true value of their purchase)
JohnN
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I'm not going to get dragged (too far) into this, but you know full well there's a difference, stolen goods are stolen, simple, stick with something safer like buying smuggled (not knock off, fake or dangerous) booze or cigarettes.
JohnN
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Okay, now you're just being confusing, what does that even mean?
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well ive just checked my email and still nowt
( I suspect he means that we all know fine well that none of these grey importers will actually take responsibility for a fully declared import as that would make many of them uncompetitive with UK prices)
( I suspect he means that we all know fine well that none of these grey importers will actually take responsibility for a fully declared import as that would make many of them uncompetitive with UK prices)
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The item would probably go out of stock for you.
StewartR
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It's a good question Pete, but sadly one which doesn't seem to get much respect on TP these days.
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Still no answer to my email ... call me mr cynical but to me the silence itself speaks volumes ... surely if the answer was "yes of course" it would be in their interests to say so
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Absolutely. It's an important distinction which I think many people don't appreciate.
Another important issue that I don't think everyone appreciates is that VAT has to be paid when an item is brought into the UK from outside the EU. There's no legal way around that.
If the supplier ships items to UK customers from a EU base, they are responsible for paying the VAT on import into the EU and they will have to charge you VAT. Not doing so is illegal.
If the supplier ships items to UK customers from a non-EU base, the customer is deemed to be the importer and is responsible for paying the VAT on import. If the supplier misrepresents the value of the item on the customs declaration, that's also illegal.
Perhaps we should start a 'sticky' thread where customers of these various 'grey' importers can compile information about how the suppliers work. We'd only need to ask three questions:
- Are the goods shipped from within the EU?
- If the answer to Q1 is 'yes', does the purchase price include VAT?
- If the answer to Q1 is 'no', does the supplier declare the value of the item correctly on the customs documentation?
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not entirely - not paying the Vat on import is illegal - the supplier can only charge the customer VAT if they (the supplier) are VAT registered. If they aren't then they can't , and they'll presumably have a lower profit margin as a result of having to cover the Vat but not charging it back
It is however also fraud to claim to be charging VAT to your customers when you aren't actually VAt registered - there is at least one grey importer (not panamoz) who is doing this
amfoto
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they are deffo back in business as i found out this morning ,,,, and i will sleep very well tonite. all this talk about tax and vat ,, has tired me out
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You're absolutely right of course. But it only applies to retailers who have a turnover of less than £79,000 (the VAT registration threshold) and I can't see that there would be (m)any of them around. Even if you were a new start-up, it would make sense to register for VAT voluntarily to avoid the 20% hit to your profit margins.
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you can only charge VAT if you are registered to do so.
I'm not registered and if I buy a frame say to resell, my lab charges VAT but I don't (it would be illegal for me to do so).
(edit - sorry saw that point was corrected after I posted) ;D)
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Rebel t3i
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How does that work then
non vat registered
cost 100 + vat = 120 + 50 profit= 170 retail
Vat registered business 120 cost -20 vat =100 + 50 profit + vat = 180 retail
how does the retailer customer win and where is this profit margin hit you mention for the non vat registered business
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You're right and I feel very stupid. I ought to know this stuff inside out and backwards. The key point is that in the first situation VAT is charged on the wholesale price, and in the second situation it's charged on the wholesale price plus the retailer's profit. And whoever is technically paying the VAT, it feeds through to the price the end customer pays. Well spotted.
However, I still think that *legal* retailers who are not VAT registered should be fairly thin on the ground, for two reasons. Firstly you don't have to sell very much at all to reach the VAT registration threshold - about 3 cameras per week. And secondly not being VAT registered means you'll never sell to a customer who is VAT registered, because your prices *will* be uncompetitive.
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