is my flash broke?

KIPAX

KIPAX

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KIPAX Lancashire UK
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I am very poor on flash so it's usualy P mode

However now and then for no apparent reason it will start to blow everyhting out.. really really bright massivly over exposed... bleached the pic... this is on P and I might do a test shot and OK but then take the money shot and aaargh :(

Seems like a silly question but as I dont know anyone with flash.. have little experience and nothing to compare I gotta ask.. is that normal.. I dont mean happens all the time for everyone.. I mean to happen now and again ?
 
its as in the viewfinder... thus it must be taking a wrong exposure reading... so in anormal lit room its setting itself as iso 400, f5.6 and 60 shuttet

in manual if i go f10, iso 400 and shutter 125 for same scene i get a better exposure

so for some reason its not exposing in P mode? which i mostly need as i am not always in a situation where i can setu manual... need to flash on the fly o to speak.
 
ps tried various lens.. tried with and without powerpack... its a 1dx and a canon 550 ex
 
I had similar problems at Christmas with 50D, 15-85mm and 430EX II. I don't use flash often, so I was puzzled too. Ended up using a -1 flash exposure compensation, which was sometimes too much (dark). Reinforces my reluctance to use flash.
 
So you mean it will work fine, and then with the same subject/situation, it just blitzes out a full power flash? What happens with the next shot, and the one after that?

If it's just inconsistent/unreliable for no apparent reason (ie you can't get it to do this every time) then maybe the flash has developed a fault. Canon 550EX is at least ten years old now. I'd bounce it off Canon CPS.

But if it's more like subject/framing changes a bit and then the flash over/under-exposes a bit, that's not unusual. Flash exposure is much harder for the camera than ambient, way more, and a bit of compensation here and there is quite normal, but anything beyond a stop or so would be unusual.
 
My 2 pennorth double check the contacts are clean and it's seated properly. They'll sometimes knock a full power flash out if the ETTL signal fails.
As Richard said the metering can be erratic, I personally find it more reliable using CWA rather than eval (in the custom settings), however there are others who say the opposite.

There's nothing wrong with ETTL, but rather than P I prefer to use M with flash indoors, it's much more predictable for the ambient element of the exposure.
 
Phil V said:
My 2 pennorth double check the contacts are clean and it's seated properly. They'll sometimes knock a full power flash out if the ETTL signal fails.
As Richard said the metering can be erratic, I personally find it more reliable using CWA rather than eval (in the custom settings), however there are others who say the opposite.

There's nothing wrong with ETTL, but rather than P I prefer to use M with flash indoors, it's much more predictable for the ambient element of the exposure.
Click to expand...

I would add M mode for ambient exposure but ttl onthe flash, and usually with a little under dialled in, anything between -1/3 and -1 stop - albeit this is on Nikon.

Another point... what metering are you using? Spot can cause this problem, just a slight drift on the metering point to something dark from something much lighter seems to throw a major spanner in the works sometimes.
 
Yv for exactly the reasons you mention I never use spot metering for anything..

PhilV the camera lets me set the flash metering as Evaluate or Average.. Its on the former... Again NOT very good with flash so I am taking this in and learning.. But if I use M when using flash.. will a difference in conditions not spoil the exposure or does the flash expose seperate?

Richard.. it works great for half a dozen jobs then goes crazy.. its crazy now... gotta wait until it stops being crazy.. I dont change anything it decides itself :(

I am going to clean the connections.. good call thanks :)
 
Yv said:
I would add M mode for ambient exposure but ttl onthe flash, and usually with a little under dialled in, anything between -1/3 and -1 stop - albeit this is on Nikon.

Another point... what metering are you using? Spot can cause this problem, just a slight drift on the metering point to something dark from something much lighter seems to throw a major spanner in the works sometimes.
Click to expand...

Edit: crossed post. Oh well...

Good point. If you're spot metering with flash, that's almost guaranteed to throw things quite a long way out now and then. Like Phil, I prefer centre-weighted/average metering for flash - it's just a little more predictable than 'smart' evaluative that can sometimes be too clever for it's own good and not so smart after all.
 
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KIPAX said:
Yv for exactly the reasons you mention I never use spot metering for anything..

PhilV the camera lets me set the flash metering as Evaluate or Average.. Its on the former... Again NOT very good with flash so I am taking this in and learning.. But if I use M when using flash.. will a difference in conditions not spoil the exposure or does the flash expose seperate?

Richard.. it works great for half a dozen jobs then goes crazy.. its crazy now... gotta wait until it stops being crazy.. I dont change anything it decides itself :(

I am going to clean the connections.. good call thanks :)
Click to expand...
I think the only q not covered, yes the flash exposure is separate.
As Yv said, expose for the ambient with M (whether you want a full day lit exposure or a 2 stop under indoor ambient) and let the ETTL handle the flash exposure, I usually have about 1/3 under indoors but might go as low as a stop (as Yv)
 
Phil V said:
I think the only q not covered, yes the flash exposure is separate.
As Yv said, expose for the ambient with M (whether you want a full day lit exposure or a 2 stop under indoor ambient) and let the ETTL handle the flash exposure, I usually have about 1/3 under indoors but might go as low as a stop (as Yv)
Click to expand...

I never knew flash did its own expsure.. I thought ettl meant it used whatever the camera used...

OK learning :)

However it doesnt alter the fact that P works most of time then sometimes it decides not to without me changing anything... All the testing this aft.. I notice it wont go over 60 in the shutter.... BUT I tried manual and put iso on auto and it still goes bonkers OTT it has to be the expsure not being right...

not the camera as I ahve two and does same.
 
It's either dirty contacts or dead flash then.

The good news is you picked up some flash knowledge checking it out :)

I would normally recommend Yongnuo, but for you I'd say a 2nd hand Canon 580 EXII for the build.
 
Theres not much in the contacts area and i cleaned them... I can use it on manual but i cant use manual all the time when out and about...but dodnt use that much anyways... yeagh might treat myself to a new flash... gotta spend some money before april :)

THANKS EVERYONE :)
 
ABOUT 200 quid on ebay but looking at pics not sure if they have the socket for my quantum lead... a oblong 3 pin socket.. cant see any on pictures... anyone know?
 
Yep, they have an oblong 3 pin socket. In the manual it's called an External power source socket.
Three pins in a straight line.
 
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mickledore said:
Yep, they have an oblong 3 pin socket. In the manual it's called an External power source socket.
Three pins in a straight line.
Click to expand...

loverly.. have google imaged it.. lots of pics showing the port but not the full flash to verify which model... thanks thats the port for the quantum battery :)

200 quid used sound about right?
 
Thant's about right. I bought one from MPB not too long since for just a bit less than that. They have none in stock at present - sod's law!
 
KIPAX said:
I never knew flash did its own expsure.. I thought ettl meant it used whatever the camera used...

OK learning :)

However it doesnt alter the fact that P works most of time then sometimes it decides not to without me changing anything... All the testing this aft.. I notice it wont go over 60 in the shutter.... BUT I tried manual and put iso on auto and it still goes bonkers OTT it has to be the expsure not being right...

not the camera as I ahve two and does same.
Click to expand...

The camera does all the exposure control - the gun just does what it's told. But flash and ambient light exposures are metered and controlled separately.

P is fine for flash, a generally underrated mode, and it's great if the light changes dramatically and there's simply no time to fiddle. Like when shooting inside, then going outside for a grab shot, or when shooting in shade, then turning around into bright sun - in P you'll be there instantly. With Canons though, in P the camera will not go below 1/60sec to prevent movement blur. Personally I don't like that, though on the 1DX you can maybe set your own lower limit in P.

I mostly use Av for flash, often with high-speed sync enabled - the camera switches in and out of HSS mode automatically, according to shutter speed. Then in Av, I simply adjust flash exposure with +/- compensation on the back of the gun, and ambient exposure with +/- compensation on the back of the camera, as usual. Or I might use manual - manual on the camera to lock ambient exposure, and/or manual on the gun to lock flash exposure.
 
P is great for me as you say Richard.. but now and then goes loopy.. when tis working then it works perfect.. stick on P and get great pics in and out doors.. but like today when it sticks at 60 shutter and over exposes to unusable levels :(

think a new flash.. offered to buy the 580exII in these very forums..
 
well well well :)

From this thread I decided the only course was a new flash and to to take Phils advice I bought this and it arrived today (second pic the 580exII)
https://www.talkphotography.co.uk/threads/canon-speedlites-for-sale.572552/#post-6640901

First test is P mode with same camera, lens and settings... works perfect :)

Impressed with the fitting.. no screw on.. its a sealed clip on much easier...

Impressed with the recycle rate.. in fact mega impressed.. I ahve been using a quantum battery pack for quicker recycle not extended use... but this recycles fast.. .. so the quantum is put away and will only be used for extended jobs.. for 90% of my needs this is perfect

Also never had the popup whita card (seems a bit flimsy hope i dont break it) and on a couple of test shots I can see the difference..

All in all .. I am happy.. one of those "wish I had done it ages ago" moments


I get asked to do presentations and stuff.. jobs I always turned down in past presuming it was my inability to use flash proper.. turns out was the unit not me... a few more goes with this and I might have the confidence to take those on... (talking kids football presentation night.. not big corperate jobs)

so new yr.. learn more about flash photogrpahy... although learnt a fair bit this week..


new flash was the answer.. all seems well.. many thnaks people :)
 
Juts been reading official reviews which give plenty of info (I know usualy read before buying)

As a complete flash novice always happy with P mode its all going a bit over my head... will have a look for that publication thanks..so long as not too techie :)
 
The manual came with your flash, and is most likely available on the web as PDF. No excuse.

Flash is really simple to master. Adjust the camera exposure as normal for desired look (perfect ambient exposure, or some degree of underexposure as you want), then add in the flash and tweak that.
 
The one issue I see with using P mode is that the camera want's to use the flash as the primary light source (i.e. flash exposure first + ambient). But In A/AV/S/Tv modes the camera want's to use ambient as primary and flash as fill.
This can make a huge difference, especially when matrix metering is used. I use CW metering in A/Av with TTL flash.
 
daugirdas said:
The manual came with your flash, and is most likely available on the web as PDF. No excuse.

Flash is really simple to master. Adjust the camera exposure as normal for desired look (perfect ambient exposure, or some degree of underexposure as you want), then add in the flash and tweak that.
Click to expand...

That's just exposure, and the camera will do that for you - if that's all you want, but that's hardly mastering flash. It's about quality of light, not quantity of exposure.
 
HoppyUK said:
That's just exposure, and the camera will do that for you - if that's all you want, but that's hardly mastering flash. It's about quality of light, not quantity of exposure.
Click to expand...

That would be mastering the light then :p admittedly that is a lot more effort than reading a couple pages of the manual.
 
sk66 said:
The one issue I see with using P mode is that the camera want's to use the flash as the primary light source (i.e. flash exposure first + ambient). But In A/AV/S/Tv modes the camera want's to use ambient as primary and flash as fill.
This can make a huge difference, especially when matrix metering is used. I use CW metering in A/Av with TTL flash.
Click to expand...

Thanks... didn't know that.

So.. (guessing mode here as not had chance to try yet) . P mode for indoors at a party say and a semi auto mode for autodoor to use as fill.. say on a sunny day to counter face shadows? Or are you saying you use the above for all flash photogrpahy?

PS what would the camera/flash try to do .. with either full manual or manual with auto iso (semi auto mode) ..primary or fill ?
 
Kipax try using your camera in Manual mode both the shutter and aperture and set the flash to ETTL mode and you will get far more consistent results than using P mode all the time

I used to use P a lot and quickly found it making a pigs ear of a lot of the exposures so abandoned P altogether a lot of people berate ettl but it is pretty good in a lot of instances

and if you use full manual get the exposures dialled in and keep the same settings remembering to keep the same distance away from the subject

I use my flash all the time and soon learned that they are quite powerful lights so only need a small amount of power dialling in.. the more you practice you will then get an idea of what power to dial in and then tweak from there
 
Buttkicker said:
and if you use full manual get the exposures dialled in and keep the same settings remembering to keep the same distance away from the subject
Click to expand...


given the work I do then keeping same distance is a bit of a nono .. I need all the settings tochange in an instant... probably not even time to dial in anything accept starting points then need to shoot on fly most of time :(
 
KIPAX said:
given the work I do then keeping same distance is a bit of a nono .. I need all the settings tochange in an instant... probably not even time to dial in anything accept starting points then need to shoot on fly most of time :(
Click to expand...
P may be your best shot for that, depending how much the ambient moves around, but in similar circumstances I'd opt for M and settings to underexpose the BG leaving the ETTL flash to make up the running.
 
Phil V said:
P may be your best shot for that, depending how much the ambient moves around, but in similar circumstances I'd opt for M and settings to underexpose the BG leaving the ETTL flash to make up the running.
Click to expand...

the normal P seems to be f5.6 and shutter 125 with varying iso.. have to admit with the 1dx I can use just about any iso with flash and get the quality i want :)
 
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