Is my camera broken or what is going on!

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CraftyLlama

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Stacey
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Hi All!

I'm having focusing issues... :exit:

I have a 7dmk 2 and (regardless of the lens) the focusing seems to be so inconsistent. I have just set it up on a tripod (using a remote shutter release) taken five photos of a lens focus chart. No settings were changed, the lighting didn't change, I didn't touch the camera, but there's no consistency in the focus whatsoever! Two of the photos are extremely blurry, one is fairly sharp and the other two are iffy. I had set it up like this to be able to set the microadjustment, but I don't see how I can possibly do that if it's not consistently blurry/in focus without any adjustment.

I actually have a photography business, which is rapidly going down the drain because I don't feel I can reliably take in focus photos anymore, and this test has made me trust the camera even less... Advice please?
 
CraftyLlama said:
Hi All!

I'm having focusing issues... :exit:

I have a 7dmk 2 and (regardless of the lens) the focusing seems to be so inconsistent. I have just set it up on a tripod (using a remote shutter release) taken five photos of a lens focus chart. No settings were changed, the lighting didn't change, I didn't touch the camera, but there's no consistency in the focus whatsoever! Two of the photos are extremely blurry, one is fairly sharp and the other two are iffy. I had set it up like this to be able to set the microadjustment, but I don't see how I can possibly do that if it's not consistently blurry/in focus without any adjustment.

I actually have a photography business, which is rapidly going down the drain because I don't feel I can reliably take in focus photos anymore, and this test has made me trust the camera even less... Advice please?
Click to expand...
Go manual :) Why are you wanting to do micro adjustments? We have never done that on all the cameras and lenses we own, not that it’s wrong, just never had the need. Have you set one point to focus to start with ? What mode are you in? And there is talk of a AF issue with this camera a while back, but suspect this is a setting issue.
 
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First thought is do you have lens IS on? Secondly, can you post examples?
 
If you have a photography business use your back up camera and send this one in for a check up.
Sounds like it could be malfunctioning, so many possible reasons and needs a technician to inspect it.
 
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Does it happen with any other lens or just one particular lens. If just with this lens then maybe the contacts or the lens itself, if same with all lenses then it is the camera. From that you will know if it is a lens or camera fault
 
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Thanks for the replies so far. No IS on, seems to be all lenses. Here's crops from the tests I took earlier. So I took these photos one after another without touching anything and as you can see they're all different... if they were consistently out of focus I could blame a setting or something but this just seems odd.
 

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Not 100% sure as I shoot Nikon,but,I think tripod mounted you should turn IS off. This applies with Nikon VR
 
Indoors or outdoors, flash? Shutter speed, iso, aperture, which lens, focus distance?
 
medwaygreen said:
Not 100% sure as I shoot Nikon,but,I think tripod mounted you should turn IS off. This applies with Nikon VR
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Depends on which lens, but in general IS off is default recommendation.
 
You mention all lenses show the same issue but fail to say which lenses you have.

Some of the more recent L grade lens can detect when on a tripod but others don't. The received wisdom is to turn IS off when used on a tripod.

You mention using a remote release but is this with mirror lockup (sorry if the 7D2 does not have MLU function?). Reason is potential "shutter shock".

Please put some more details in the what lens, shutter speed, IS off when on tripod.

Last observation, I surmise that you were having an issue so you tested under what should be controlled conditions. But compared to when you used the camera and all the lenses without issue (hand-held) did anything change in regard to anything from settings and/or types of subject???
 
Are you defocusing the lens between shots, if not any errors on the first shot could be made worse on the next ones, if you defocus between shots the results may still be wrong but should be wrong in a consistent way, which would tell you more.
 
I say again if you are running a photography business send it in for a service and use your back up.
No different to a malfunctioning power tool because that's what it is if you are relying on it for income.
 
Just another thought? You haven’t mentioned what brand the lenses are. 3rd party lenses like Sigma and Tamron have to reverse engineer the AF protocols. It could be the AF module is faulty.
 
CraftyLlama said:
Thanks for the replies so far. No IS on, seems to be all lenses. Here's crops from the tests I took earlier. So I took these photos one after another without touching anything and as you can see they're all different... if they were consistently out of focus I could blame a setting or something but this just seems odd.
Click to expand...
They don't look right at all, assuming it's not user error that suggests a fault to me. A couple of other things to consider, have you laminated the test chart? The reason that I ask is that there's a funny white blob at the top of those crops suggesting a reflection of some kind. Glossy/shiny surfaces can throw off AF systems, especially in low light.

What are your exposure settings, this would give us an idea of what the light is like that you're shooting in? Finally are you using phase detect (viewfinder focus) or contrast detect (live view/LCD screen focus)?
 
CraftyLlama said:
Thanks for the replies so far. No IS on, seems to be all lenses. Here's crops from the tests I took earlier. So I took these photos one after another without touching anything and as you can see they're all different... if they were consistently out of focus I could blame a setting or something but this just seems odd.
Click to expand...
I feel your pain.
I have a 5dmk4 which does the same thing.
I even used defocus between shots.

I can find no solution to the problem so the camera is going soon.
I tried the following:

3 different lenses, 85mm 1.2, 100-400 mk2 and 300mm 2.8 mk2.

Tripod mount with IS on (where applicable)
Tripod mount with IS off.
Mirror lock up with 10s delay.
Centre spot focusing, centre point expansion and centre group.
AF cases 1, 2 and 5.

Repeated the above, hand held, without mirror lock up.

No luck!

I used higher ISO than I would normally to negate camera shake during hand held shooting.
I had hoped it would have been as simple as MFA but without a front/back trend it's impossible.
I assume it's a camera defect and I can't be bothered with Canon service so I'll just stop the lenses down in the short term.
 
CraftyLlama said:
As I said no image stabilisation is on. As in - it's not on. It's off. (In fact that lens doesn't have it).
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Why drip feed the info please give fullest details as I suggested to allow people to try to address the problem!!!!! Like @soupdragon has done :)

soupdragon said:
I feel your pain.
I have a 5dmk4 which does the same thing.
I even used defocus between shots.

I can find no solution to the problem so the camera is going soon.
I tried the following:

3 different lenses, 85mm 1.2, 100-400 mk2 and 300mm 2.8 mk2.

Tripod mount with IS on (where applicable)
Tripod mount with IS off.
Mirror lock up with 10s delay.
Centre spot focusing, centre point expansion and centre group.
AF cases 1, 2 and 5.

Repeated the above, hand held, without mirror lock up.

No luck!

I used higher ISO than I would normally to negate camera shake during hand held shooting.
I had hoped it would have been as simple as MFA but without a front/back trend it's impossible.
I assume it's a camera defect and I can't be bothered with Canon service so I'll just stop the lenses down in the short term.
Click to expand...
Good rundown of what you tried to ID the problem. :)
 
tijuana taxi said:
I say again if you are running a photography business send it in for a service and use your back up.
No different to a malfunctioning power tool because that's what it is if you are relying on it for income.
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It's only a very small business on the side, do not have (can't afford) a back up yet unfortunately!
 
It is frustrating when you pay good money for something and it does not work as it should.

My advice to the op, as he is a professional, replace the camera asap.
 
Box Brownie said:
Why drip feed the info please give fullest details as I suggested to allow people to try to address the problem!!!!! Like @soupdragon has done :)


Good rundown of what you tried to ID the problem. :)
Click to expand...

Sorry there's just lots of replies and haven't had time to sit down and address them all properly yet :)
 
CraftyLlama said:
It's only a very small business on the side, do not have (can't afford) a back up yet unfortunately!
Click to expand...

Back up is essential as instances like this show.
If you are charging for a service you need to be far more professional in your practices.

Just send it to Canon at Elstree and let them look at it, all this on here is just guesswork.
If you did manage to pin it down to something faulty it would need repairing anyway
Times is money and your business will fail if you let customers down
 
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sk66 said:
I would suspect a dirty/dusty PDAF module... A quick go with a bulb blower might help.
Click to expand...

Thanks, that's definitely something easy I can try!

MatBin said:
Indoors or outdoors, flash? Shutter speed, iso, aperture, which lens, focus distance?
Click to expand...

Indoors but in fairly good lighting. No flash. 1/160, ISO 250, f1.8, Focal length 18mm. This lens is a Sigma ART 18-35 f1.8

Box Brownie said:
You mention all lenses show the same issue but fail to say which lenses you have.

Some of the more recent L grade lens can detect when on a tripod but others don't. The received wisdom is to turn IS off when used on a tripod.

You mention using a remote release but is this with mirror lockup (sorry if the 7D2 does not have MLU function?). Reason is potential "shutter shock".

Please put some more details in the what lens, shutter speed, IS off when on tripod.

Last observation, I surmise that you were having an issue so you tested under what should be controlled conditions. But compared to when you used the camera and all the lenses without issue (hand-held) did anything change in regard to anything from settings and/or types of subject???
Click to expand...

Not sure on the mirror lock up thing, not a feature I've used/no idea if I have it. They weren't without issue - hence I assumed there was a microadjustment issue and tried to fix it this way. I've been having issues for a while, but keep presuming it is just me moving or doing something wrong (and slowly losing confidence in myself) - but getting the same results under controlled conditions has made me realise perhaps it isn't me after all!
 

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Mintchocs said:
Just another thought? You haven’t mentioned what brand the lenses are. 3rd party lenses like Sigma and Tamron have to reverse engineer the AF protocols. It could be the AF module is faulty.
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The lens used for this test is my Sigma Art 18-35 f1.8. I also use a Tamron 70-200 g2, and a canon 85mm f1.8. I haven't used the canon lens in a little while... I'll run the same test with that later.
 
soupdragon said:
I feel your pain.
I have a 5dmk4 which does the same thing.
I even used defocus between shots.

I can find no solution to the problem so the camera is going soon.
I tried the following:

3 different lenses, 85mm 1.2, 100-400 mk2 and 300mm 2.8 mk2.

Tripod mount with IS on (where applicable)
Tripod mount with IS off.
Mirror lock up with 10s delay.
Centre spot focusing, centre point expansion and centre group.
AF cases 1, 2 and 5.

Repeated the above, hand held, without mirror lock up.

No luck!

I used higher ISO than I would normally to negate camera shake during hand held shooting.
I had hoped it would have been as simple as MFA but without a front/back trend it's impossible.
I assume it's a camera defect and I can't be bothered with Canon service so I'll just stop the lenses down in the short term.
Click to expand...

Thank you this is really helpful, I'm glad it's not just me having this problem.
 
snerkler said:
They don't look right at all, assuming it's not user error that suggests a fault to me. A couple of other things to consider, have you laminated the test chart? The reason that I ask is that there's a funny white blob at the top of those crops suggesting a reflection of some kind. Glossy/shiny surfaces can throw off AF systems, especially in low light.

What are your exposure settings, this would give us an idea of what the light is like that you're shooting in? Finally are you using phase detect (viewfinder focus) or contrast detect (live view/LCD screen focus)?
Click to expand...

Not laminated, that's just a bit of selotape. Exposure settings posted above, and I'm using the viewfinder.
 
CraftyLlama said:
It's only a very small business on the side, do not have (can't afford) a back up yet unfortunately!
Click to expand...
You could always rent gear in the short term. Obviously it would reduce your margin but would keep business ticking over.
 
Cockney said:
You could always rent gear in the short term. Obviously it would reduce your margin but would keep business ticking over.
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Business is super slow right now anyways (and I've been letting is slow down at the moment anyway because I've literally just bought a house - get the keys next week) so there's no major rush for perfectly working equipment. It's just something I do for fun on the side of two other jobs.
 
This is an interesting thread for me.
My 5d4 is not the first Canon slr I've had with a degree of randomness during AF.
Two others I owned were a 5D3 and a 7D2 which were both swapped out within a 28 day period.

On both occasions the replacement bodies have performed admirably. This suggests to me there are copy to copy variations during manufacture.
As I said, I can live with front or back focus but I'm just chasing my tail with spurious misses.
 
CraftyLlama said:
Business is super slow right now anyways (and I've been letting is slow down at the moment anyway because I've literally just bought a house - get the keys next week) so there's no major rush for perfectly working equipment. It's just something I do for fun on the side of two other jobs.
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It may be a side line or a hobby now but, you never know. If you get some serious work it may become a career option and you really don't want unreliable gear then.
 
CraftyLlama said:
Not laminated, that's just a bit of selotape. Exposure settings posted above, and I'm using the viewfinder.
Click to expand...
I would run the same test using liveview, this will help narrow down whether it's a 'global' focus problem, or phase detect focus problem. The latter would suggest something wrong with the AF module, or much less likely a mirror alignment issue.
 
Just a suggestion, put the camera in liveview, use the centre focus point, and then af. See what happens, is it accurate? De-focus and try again, again see what happens. Then I would try manually focusing (whilst still in liveview and on a tripod), get the focus spot on, then af, it the focus moves at all, then I would suggest that there is something wrong with the af.
 
I think I would try again but with a wider aperture, as I am sure you know 1.8 is going to give you very little dof, the slightetst movement and you're out of focus. I'd use mirror lock up, it's hidden in the menus and either cable release or timed release to ensure as little movement as possible. Possibly I would light the subject matter to get a decent aperture/shutter speed/iso setting to rule out dof, shake or grain issues either a flash or continuos light, even daylight at the moment might work in a bright room.
Alternatively send it to Canon Elstree and get them to check it over, including sending a lens so they could check real world rather than using a standard lens that they have. It may be that all of the tolerances between lens and body are adding up and you are on the extreme end of usability with your combination(s), grante dit's unlikely all your lenses are going to be at the wrong end, but you never know, it could be possible. Can you try your lenses on another body to rule that out?
 
snerkler said:
I would run the same test using liveview, this will help narrow down whether it's a 'global' focus problem, or phase detect focus problem. The latter would suggest something wrong with the AF module, or much less likely a mirror alignment issue.
Click to expand...
Nostromo said:
Just a suggestion, put the camera in liveview, use the centre focus point, and then af. See what happens, is it accurate? De-focus and try again, again see what happens. Then I would try manually focusing (whilst still in liveview and on a tripod), get the focus spot on, then af, it the focus moves at all, then I would suggest that there is something wrong with the af.
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Thank you both I will try this
 
Looking at the three images, they are not the same. Two have the top cropped off, so something must have moved - perhaps the tripod head?

edit - sorry I can see now you said you cropped them. So presumably you cropped each one individually since they are different.
 
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CraftyLlama said:
Thank you both I will try this
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Good suggestions, but please also make sure the camera is set to "One Shot" when you're doing these tests. This has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread but it's not clear to me which focus mode you are using.
 
maarten.dhaese said:
Good suggestions, but please also make sure the camera is set to "One Shot" when you're doing these tests. This has been mentioned elsewhere in the thread but it's not clear to me which focus mode you are using.
Click to expand...

I am using one shot, thanks
 
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