Is my body not up to it??

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mumrar

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Matt
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No I don't mean me physically (although I do wonder sometimes), but my camera body. When I've tried to do sports/fast moving subjects I always set my 450D to AE SERVO but I get as many misses as I do hits. I used to put it down to using a fairly slow lens, the Canon 70-300 IS USM, but recently I purchased a Sigma 70-200 f2.8 APO EX DG HSM. This is a wonderfully tack sharp lens, even wide open. But when taking shots of my son playing football (just him, and he's only 3), I was still getting a lot that weren't focussing properly. So my question is, is it poor AF on the camera, or poor technique. I always select a specific AF point when using AE SERVO rather than leaving it to choose.

Thanks for any help
 
To be honest with you it could be a bit of both.

The 450D isn't known for it's fast AF in AI Servo mode, along with that, if you dont have a steady hand or your panning skills are not very good it could also have an affect
 
That is why I have upgraded to the 7D, :D to get a bit extra speed, but otherwise I love my 450D.:thumbs:
 
I would think a 450d is more than capable of tracking your kids in A1 servo mode.Sure your not using A1 focus?
 
The 450D wont have the fastest AF but with a bit of practice it should do well. Do you have any shots we can look at to help?
 
Definitely AI SERVO mode, I also make sure to change it when required. My panning technique I don't think is too bad, I have dead on pans of trains doing 100mph+ taken at 1/60sec with a non IS lens (at about 60mm). I think I need more practice, but I'm worried I will reach a ceiling with the camera. The 7D is lovely, I'd love to buy one, but my wife may very well disagree. Is a 50D going to be any better?
 
My friend uses a 450D and gets good sharp bird in flight shots so I would think with a bit of practice you should be able to get good shots with it.
 
I take BIF shots wth my 450 and Sigam and had a real job at the beginning to get them in focus, but after alot of patience, helpful advice from here and fiddling around with the buttons I (well I think anyway;) ) have got some decent shot of BIF

Good luck and practice, practice, practice.
 
What shutter speed are you using? You want to be at at least 1/640th, preferably 1/1000th to freeze action and avoid motion blur. Set the lens to f/2.8 and increase the ISO until you get shutter speed that is fast enough.
 
The 450 should be fine. I used to use a 400 to photograph track days and mountian bikers. Having said that, I now have the 50D and, yes it is a lot quicker and I do get better results. Thats with the same lenses too.
 
daugirdas said:
There are some tricks like prefocusing, etc to help you. However, a reliable action tracking requires at least 1D mk2 (now v. cheap 2nd hand) or 7D.
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Sorry, but I would have to say (being polite), what a load of cobblers. There are a lot of togs using a lot lower kit and gettnig good results.

The 450D should be able to get good results with the right settings & techniques, you don't have to get pro bodies to be able to shoot a sharp pic of BIF or a 3 year old playing football...

What settings have you tried when taking the pics? The biggest problem I had when I first attempted to catch Motorspot was setting the speeds all wrong and getting too much blur?

I used to ahve the 70-300 and it is a cracking lens...
 
I do set up the camera to get high shutter speeds, some of the shots that haven't worked are getting up to 1/2000sec. As for example shots, I'm terrible for deleting shots I can't use. So I'll try to get out and do a set soon without deleting any to send some burst results. I will also watch those videos too, as I suspect technique is an issue, being as I'm laughably bad at tracking birds in flight. It would help if they just went straight of course.
 
It might be worth posting some pics up with exif data so those in the know on here may take a look and might be able to give some better advice, your 450D is more than capable. If you look at some of Briony's Kites which have been taken on a 450 you'll see they're tac sharp with the Sigma 12-400 f4/5.6 and I would be surprised if your 3 yr old son is as quick as they are when they're playing, if he is you'll have no problem buying a 7D or anything else you want very shortly :lol: :D
 
I have been using 450D with the 70-300mm 4-5.6 in AI SERVO and it worked fine, only had a few misses in a bunch of about 100.

so with the 2.8 you now have it should be fine.

this is what I was getting...anything like yours?

SeatonRugby3-2.jpg


SeatonRugby_14.jpg


SeatonRugby4.jpg
 
If you're shooting wide open (f2.8) then the DOF is going to be about 5cm. If the AI-Servo isn't 100% spot on you'll get OOF images ?
 
also light helps massively, the best of bodies will struggle with AF in crap light.
 
I'm not always shooting wide open, usually between f2.8 and f3.5, and some of the indifferent results are happening in blazing sunshine. I'll have a view of the tutorial videos linked earlier, and post feedback and results. This may not happen till Wed as work have me doing 08:00-20:30 if you include my teavelling time!!
 
Agree with Briony, you can get decent BIF shots with a 450D but my keeper rate isn't very good, I'm also using the Sigma 150-500 & am on the verge of going 7D to get better tracking of birds in flight.

On the other hand I'm sure my skills will gradually improve while I save for the 7D
 
Just to add. When I do my test, I'm gonna try and use this new found back button focus thing. I can't believe it's not more prevelant, and i feel practice will yeild good results. Ducks move nice and quick, and live close by, so that's what I'll try I think.
 
Trying taking some of your shots are narrower apertures, at say F5.6. Only reason I say this is because at F2.8 you are going to have to nail the focus for the photo to look good. But if you shoot at say F5.6 (only an example) more of the image will be in focus so slightly out of focus images will be much more in focus than at F2.8
 
Just a quick question, are you selecting a focus point, or letting the camera chose? It can make a really big difference!

For reference, here's a shot with my 450D and 70-300 IS:



It's part of a series, and a good proportion of them were in-focus (but the compositions were what let them down). With practice, the 450D is still very capable, and saying a 1-series is required it a little ridiculous, and not really an option for a lot of people!

Chris
 
J4MIE_P said:
Trying taking some of your shots are narrower apertures, at say F5.6. Only reason I say this is because at F2.8 you are going to have to nail the focus for the photo to look good. But if you shoot at say F5.6 (only an example) more of the image will be in focus so slightly out of focus images will be much more in focus than at F2.8
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I understand that, but I am wanting to blur the background of the shot too. i didn't pay the money and carry the weight of an f/2.8 lens to shoot it at f/5.6 :)

chris321 said:
Just a quick question, are you selecting a focus point, or letting the camera chose? It can make a really big difference!

For reference, here's a shot with my 450D and 70-300 IS:
Click to expand...
I did mention that I am choosing the AF point, there's rarely any benefit in letting the camera choose it, as it always invariably chooses the wrong one
 
mumrar said:
I did mention that I am choosing the AF point, there's rarely any benefit in letting the camera choose it, as it always invariably chooses the wrong one
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Ah right, sorry I looked through the thread and couldn't see any reference to it, must have missed it somewhere!

I guess it's just practice in that case..... I upgraded to a 50D for the ISO performance, the AF is supposed to be better but to be honest in practice I can't say I really noticed a great deal!

Chris
 
I use a 450D and Sigma 70-200 F2.8 at the moment for biking shots and I also find it a bit hit and miss for focus tracking, espically taking say 4 shots of a rider heading towards you at 20mph. I put my lens on a borrowed 7D and the hit rate was much much better. It locked on super fast and kept up with the rider very well. I like to shoot portrait and use an off center focus point to lock onto the helmet but I find this method is very unreliable.
 
mumrar said:
...i didn't pay the money and carry the weight of an f/2.8 lens to shoot it at f/5.6 :)
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Just becasue the lens can does not necessarily mean that it is best for the shot your trying to take, theres a time and a place for everything :thumbs:
 
I completely agree there's a time and a place, but I got a lot of practice with my other telephoto at the lower aperture range, I'm merely seeing if I can add another feather to my cap for this kind of shot with a nice blurry background.
 
daugirdas said:
There are some tricks like prefocusing, etc to help you. However, a reliable action tracking requires at least 1D mk2 (now v. cheap 2nd hand) or 7D.
Click to expand...

Sorry, that's a load of rubbish!!!! You can get perfectly reliable tracking shots with any dslr! I get very, very good results with just a 400d and a 55-250 is with a very high keeper rate, and we're talking full bore motorsport and horse jumping. It's all about technique, pretty much all modern kit is up to it, it's just how you use it.
 
So, as promised I had a practice run, I've now changed to using back button focus, but still seem to be having issues though. I have a feeling that it hasn;t worked on the test because of how uniform and without contrast the section I focussed on was. I used the left lower diagonal focus point, manually selected and the camera set to AI SERVO AF. Exposures were all around 1/1250s f/3.2 and the train in question was doing about 20mph or so.
img8487z.jpg

img8488.jpg

img8489.jpg

img8490h.jpg

img8491r.jpg

img8492.jpg

Whilst the second and third look fine on here, I assure you they are not on closer inspection.
 
mumrar said:
Whilst the second and third look fine on here, I assure you they are not on closer inspection.
Click to expand...

Its best to post 100% crops then... 1-series can track a car coming at 50mph just fine with f4 zoom, just as good at 2.8 and even 1.8! If tracking is important you know what to look for.
 
As requested, 100% crops, taken from the rough approximation of the AF point selected.
shot #2
img8488c.jpg

shot #3
img8489c.jpg
 
What is it You are not happy with? Is it that some of the image is blurred? Why are you using f3.2? A lot of the image will naturally be oof with such a wide aperture, and 3.2 doesn't really seem right for what you are capturing in those examples... Do you use it wide open simply to get faster shutter speeds?you don't really need a shutter speed of 1000 for a slow moving train. Try upping the iso and going for f7 and above, it should make them much sharper.
 
to be honest i think your expecting a bit too much out of your kit.....
 
c_robinson said:
to be honest i think your expecting a bit too much out of your kit.....
Click to expand...

I don't at all, peserverance and patience :thumbs:

These was taken with a 450 and a sigma 120 - 400



Aprilmix118.jpg




167.jpg


:shrug:

try and get together with someone who can give you some pointers it makes such a difference.
 
Those shots were a test, I wasn't really after anything in particular from them. I wanted to eliminate handshake and other factors from the test. I don't like the fact that whilst in isolation those two shots may seem acceptable, remember they were the best with 4 more being a lot worse.
 
Briony said:
I don't at all, peserverance and patience :thumbs:

These was taken with a 450 and a sigma 120 - 400


try and get together with someone who can give you some pointers it makes such a difference.
Click to expand...

Nice shots, but they are not a direct comparison. It is infinitely easier to track an object moving across the frame with a 400mm lens. Objects coming towards the camera with a short tele are more challenging.
 
Look guys, its definately not the kit. A Canon 450d combined with a Canon 70-300 USM IS is a perfectly capable bit of kit and can easily track to the camera with good results, and its easy for those with 1d's or other high end kit to poo poo lower kit and blame that.

Here are 3 of mine from a recent horse jumping event, all taken with 'just' a 400d and Canon 55-250 IS;

Georgelastjump.jpg


Georgeafterlastjump.jpg


GeorgepattingBoris.jpg


I'm not claiming the pics themselves are perfect, and I will point out that Photobucket has softened these slightly (?!) and the vinetting on the 2nd one was added by me, but its a good example of how the 'low end' kit not only coped with tracking, but also tracking through 3 separate plains whilst coming towards the camera at speed (right, vertically and towards the camera with focal length also being adjusted throughout). The light was also pretty terrible.

I think its important to remember not to hold the trigger down for continuous shooting it its coming towards you - you still need to compose and time it otherwise you will induce blurring if you hold down the trigger and hope for the best!

Maybe the OP's kit is back focusing? And Id be interested if he sharpens in PP afterwards?
 
For the train shots, where was the focus point positioned? (You can see this if you open in in Canon DPP I think)
The AF needs some edges/contrast to be able to lock on accurately, so if it was over a section of pure yellow on the front of the train, it's bound to struggle.
 
I believe he mentioned the focus point used.
 
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