Is it time we all gave up

Harriers9 said:
...a few nice, constructive comments.

That is what I would like from Flickr, or any similar site. Just a hundred people to look at it and ask how it was done, where was the location. What was your inspiration etc.
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Isn't that what TP is for?

The main thing I use Flikr for is a hosting site for photos of stuff I'm trying to sell. Which seamlessly segues into a shameless plug... ;)
 
dod said:
there's too many folk with a camera thinking they're artists full stop. Take photos that please you and b*****ks to what everyone else thinks.
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I'd go one further actually.
Too many folk with cameras, thinking they're photographers.
 
Harriers9 said:
I think that what I could be trying to say is that all (most) of us on here have spent a substantial sum of money on quality equipment, taken time to understand the basics of photography, spent an almost similar amount on Photoshop etc to process the results of all this expenditure then posted it to ANY photosharing site to await a few nice, constructive comments.

That is what I would like from Flickr, or any similar site. Just a hundred people to look at it and ask how it was done, where was the location. What was your inspiration etc.

To then see Flickr ignore all the creativity and skill involved in taking a photograph in favour of three out of focus dogs, but an in focus cushion, is disappointing when they could, used to be, a vehicle for promoting our raison d'etre
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According to my stats I've had comments on a half of my ridiculous 5,700 odd Flickr images (that I've uploaded over the past ten years). However, I'm a Flickr addict, and I am very active on there - not as certain critics here would ascertain, to increase any view or fave count, but because I enjoy photography, including looking at other people's photographs. If you are active, you tend to find "activity" increases on your own uploads, but that is aside. I suspect that some schools of photographer tend to be more sociable on there. For example, many of my contacts enjoy using film cameras, and some of them like using them in the street. We as a minority tend to view and comment on each others photography more - at least I think so.

I don't spend much on gear - I make a point of it. I've had a lot of fun with my 50p camera project. I've cross processed expired disposable cameras from car boots. Okay, as a spammer, I do probably spend too much on films. I don't use Photoshop. I don't need to for my kind of photography. Any post scan editing I can use free open source software.

What you are referring to though is the Flickr Explore phenomena. It's not real. I've had 116 images make it into Explore over the years. Many of those images I liked - but some were awful. I shouldn't have uploaded them except for my spamming tendency. I've uploaded some photos that I've really liked, that haven't made it into Explore.

Look at this one:



Explore at position 22. With 31,504 views, 208 faves, 25 comments.

It's my image and I think it's crap. Taken on my 50p camera, but I've taken other photos with it that I like. Some of them never made Explore. It doesn't matter. As long as I like them, and people who's opinion that I do value, also appear to enjoy looking at them. Explore is mad. I understand that the latest part of the sum, is that if you've had an image in Explore, you are blocked from any more entering for several days. It doesn't matter how they even score elsewhere on Flickr's calculation - never mind how much you like them.

I enjoy the community there. We communicate perhaps more through photographs than by the word, although good information can be found in the groups, or via inbox's.
 
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Llamaman said:
Isn't that what TP is for?

The main thing I use Flikr for is a hosting site for photos of stuff I'm trying to sell. Which seamlessly segues into a shameless plug... ;)
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This sums up what I was thinking, Flickr is purely a way of sharing images, it is not a place for constructive criticism. This is why I no longer worry about views or comments, (although they are nice), I take pictures for me and if others like them then all well and good. The only opinions I value are either from somebody part with cash and purchasing an image, or by my peers on specialist sites, frequented by other photographers (ie. TP).

In short if you want a valid back pat, post images on here that way you will get genuine feedback from people who appreciate the technical side as well.
 
Pookeyhead said:
(shrug).. point still stands. That sums up Flickr though. It's pointless as a means of measuring your work because there's no rhyme or reason as to what people like. It fails as a means of promotion because unless you do something fantastically noticeable, it's lost in a sea of mediocrity. No one actually uses it to scout "talent". It's just a social network where people say stuff like "Cool shot".

My advice, is stay away. I've no idea why people see Flickr as so important, or the only way to promote yourself. It has 1TB of storage.. that's nice though.

[edit]

Question is still valid though. What does the OP expect "back" from Flickr?
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unusually for an 'art' thread I fully agree with David

Flickr (and facebook and the social meejaverse generally - specific crit groups excepted) are worthless for assessing your work's 'value' either in terms of art or in terms of technical merit - its the "mummy saysz I is orsum" mentality writ large - virtually anything that's big, colourful, or has a cute fluffy animal or small child (or both) in it will get shared/liked/explored regardless of artistic or technical merit

unfortunately this is directly related to the dummy spitting and teddy throwing that often ensues in crit threads here (and anywhere else that honest crit is given) when people who think they are the next big thing because they have elevety thousand likes run head first into the wall of objectivity that tells them they are mediocre at best
 
I shouldn't worry about explore, I gave up on that a long time ago. I'm much happier with the small loyal band of viewers I have, and anyone else I happen to pick up along the way.

I've come to far prefer the feedback I get here, as people do generally take the time to write a considered reply.
 
Jayst84 said:
They're an animal rescue society with millions of followers on social media. This is a post on social media marking the organisation's birthday. It has absolutely nothing to with art.

Similarly, Flickr is just another social media platform, and has nothing to do with art.

If you're going to "give up your art" because some people want to support an animal rescue society, I'm not sure anyone here can help you.
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What i was thinking myself
 
viv1969 said:
I'd go one further actually.
Too many folk with cameras, thinking they're photographers.
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What do you class as a photographer? (genuine unloaded question, I'm not necessarily disagreeing)

As some one who's relatively inexperienced with photography I'm intrigued as to what criteria I would need to meet before I could be considered a photographer in your eyes?

As it happens I've never considered referring to myself as a photographer but I have a camera, I take photographs therefore am I not a photographer, even if I'm not a good one?

Is it about earning an income, my ability, my reasons for taking a photograph or my approach?
 
You hold a camera, you take photographs, ergo you're a photographer
 
MFlip said:
What do you class as a photographer? (genuine unloaded question, I'm not necessarily disagreeing)

As some one who's relatively inexperienced with photography I'm intrigued as to what criteria I would need to meet before I could be considered a photographer in your eyes?

As it happens I've never considered referring to myself as a photographer but I have a camera, I take photographs therefore am I not a photographer, even if I'm not a good one?

Is it about earning an income, my ability, my reasons for taking a photograph or my approach?
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I'm thinking a great deal of knowledge, skill, practice and time dedicated to learning the craft.
I've never considered myself photographer either, yet some folk seem to think that's what they become the second the purchase a camera.
Changing a tyre on my car....or changing the oil...doesn't make me a mechanic.
Putting a plaster on a cut doesn't make me a surgeon.
Why should acquiring a camera and firing off some frames make a person think they're a photographer?
 
If you use the camera to take photographs, and intend to continue to take photographs, you certainly are a photographer. Not necessarily a full time photographer or a good photographer or a professional photographer. But as one who takes photographs, that is the definition of photographer.

You may also be a pedestrian or a cyclist. When driving you might be "the" driver. But not "a" driver as a job. Yet "a" driver in terms of the commuting population.

It's not holy. I wouldn't worry about a word.

Now my camera has "art" modes. Does that make me an artist? No. because I don't use them. They are silly. But if I did use them,....:-)
 
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viv1969 said:
Nonsense.
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Ummm....no it isn't in the slightest!

viv1969 said:
I'm thinking a great deal of knowledge, skill, practice and time dedicated to learning the craft.
I've never considered myself photographer either, yet some folk seem to think that's what they become the second the purchase a camera.
Changing a tyre on my car....or changing the oil...doesn't make me a mechanic.
Putting a plaster on a cut doesn't make me a surgeon.
Why should acquiring a camera and firing off some frames make a person think they're a photographer?
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That's nonsense.
 
I'm not shocked that folks are precious about the label tbh.
Still, the Mechanic and Surgeon thing will look good on the CV :-)
 
viv1969 said:
Why should acquiring a camera and firing off some frames make a person think they're a photographer?
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because they are taking photos - it doesn't make them a professional unless they are earning money from it, but anyone who take photos is a photographer - they may be a not very good photographer , they may be an appalling photographer but if they are engaged in the act of photography then they are a photographer QED

likewise if you are engaged in the act of surgery then you are a surgeon (putting a plaster on a cut isn't surgery btw) while if you carry out mechanics then you are a mechanic (again possibly not a very good one - and again changing a wheel doesnt count as mechanics anyway
 
big soft moose said:
because they are taking photos - it doesn't make them a professional unless they are earning money from it, but anyone who take photos is a photographer - they may be a not very good photographer , they may be an appalling photographer but if they are engaged in the act of photography then they are a photographer QED

likewise if you are engaged in the act of surgery then you are a surgeon (putting a plaster on a cut isn't surgery btw) while if you carry out mechanics then you are a mechanic (again possibly not a very good one - and again changing a wheel doesnt count as mechanics anyway
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Okie Dokie :rolleyes:
 
viv1969 said:
I'm not shocked that folks are precious about the label tbh.
Still, the Mechanic and Surgeon thing will look good on the CV :)
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I think the only person being precious about it is you!
If I produced a meal from scratch i am cooking and therefore a cook. If I have qualifications and do it for a living I might be a chef.
If i am applying a plaster to a cut I'm not a surgeon but I am carrying out First Aid therefore I am a first aider as that is what I'm doing!
 
don't waste your time rich - some people are interested in the argument for its ownsake

there's a collective noun for that occupation too
 
Edit...........simply not worth it
 
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viv1969 said:
I'm thinking a great deal of knowledge, skill, practice and time dedicated to learning the craft.
I've never considered myself photographer either, yet some folk seem to think that's what they become the second the purchase a camera.
Changing a tyre on my car....or changing the oil...doesn't make me a mechanic.
Putting a plaster on a cut doesn't make me a surgeon.
Why should acquiring a camera and firing off some frames make a person think they're a photographer?
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Thanks for replying. Although you haven't said it I'm sensing a link to being a professional or perhaps being good enough to be a professional. If so I can understand, I think this is probably close to how I subconsciously differentiate between being a photographer and not being a photographer in my head.

However for me there is no clear line between being good enough to be a professional, or considered a skilled photographer, or not. (I suspect someone with fairly basic photography skills could make money in certain fields if they were good enough at marketing themselves.) As such I think I'd have to fall back to the literal definition if I was going to consciously judge someone to be a photographer or not.

Having said that whether or not I'm labelled as a photographer doesn't worry me personally. Creating images that I and hopefully others at some point enjoy or find interesting, along with enjoying myself in the process, is more important.

I'll leave it there, where as I'm not bothered about the photographer label I'd rather not obtain the troll label.
 
MFlip said:
Thanks for replying. Although you haven't said it I'm sensing a link to being a professional or perhaps being good enough to be a professional. If so I can understand, I think this is probably close to how I subconsciously differentiate between being a photographer and not being a photographer in my head.

However for me there is no clear line between being good enough to be a professional, or considered a skilled photographer, or not. (I suspect someone with fairly basic photography skills could make money in certain fields if they were good enough at marketing themselves.) As such I think I'd have to fall back to the literal definition if I was going to consciously judge someone to be a photographer or not.

Having said that whether or not I'm labelled as a photographer doesn't worry me personally. Creating images that I and hopefully others at some point enjoy or find interesting, along with enjoying myself in the process, is more important.

I'll leave it there, where as I'm not bothered about the photographer label I'd rather not obtain the troll label.
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we weren't referring to you ;)

end of the day even the worst amateur photographer is still a photographer just not a very good one - also skill isn't directly linked to being a professional either , there are plenty of £50 a day photographers who are significantly worse than many of the amateurs on here
 
big soft moose said:
we weren't referring to you ;)

end of the day even the worst amateur photographer is still a photographer just not a very good one - also skill isn't directly linked to being a professional either , there are plenty of £50 a day photographers who are significantly worse than many of the amateurs on here
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Now that is 100% the truth.
 
big soft moose said:
unusually for an 'art' thread I fully agree with David

Flickr (and facebook and the social meejaverse generally - specific crit groups excepted) are worthless for assessing your work's 'value' either in terms of art or in terms of technical merit - its the "mummy saysz I is orsum" mentality writ large - virtually anything that's big, colourful, or has a cute fluffy animal or small child (or both) in it will get shared/liked/explored regardless of artistic or technical merit

unfortunately this is directly related to the dummy spitting and teddy throwing that often ensues in crit threads here (and anywhere else that honest crit is given) when people who think they are the next big thing because they have elevety thousand likes run head first into the wall of objectivity that tells them they are mediocre at best
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Unusually, I agree totally with Pete. LOL
 
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